Crucifixion Before Passover

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#22 Feb 21, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
No you are not reading. You are ignoring everything I posted and just repeating your same argument over and over and over as if by repetition you can somehow make it so. In Jewish thought a part of a day was considered a whole day. As shown by the sources I quoted, above, "three days and three nights" means the same thing as "in three days,""on the third day," and "after three days."
How do you get three full days and three full nights, if, according to your argument, Jesus was crucified around 4-5pm Wednesday or Thursday afternoon, and resurrected around 5am Sunday morning?
If Jesus was buried around 4-5pm Wednesday, three full days and nights, he would be resurrected around 4-5pm Saturday.
If Jesus was buried around 4-5pm Thursday, three full days and nights, he would be resurrected around 4-5pm Sunday.
As the scripture shows Jesus was resurrected around dawn on Sunday. Your calculation is either 12 hours more or less than three days and three nights.
Nice try. Nothing but your opinion.
--------

Not my opinion. The opinion of the gospels. As long as you do not quote your opinions the opinion of the gospels will stand. That jesus was buried either Wednesday or Thursday is your opinion. Such
an opinion is nowhere recorded in the gospels. You must be trying to read your own opinion into the gospels. Again, the day or part of a day is accounted for a day. The night or part of a night is account as a night. The guy who wrote Mat. 12:40 speaks of three deays and three nights. He did not say "in three days." He said
"Three days and three nights." How can that be so hard to understand?

Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#23 Feb 21, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
More evidence that you are not reading what I post. I did inform the other person that Jesus was a Jew talking to other Jews in 1st century Israel. In this post.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/christian...
And I have not said anything about Greece or Greek. I have quoted Hebrew sources, e.g. the Talmud and Jewish Encyclopedia, which you have ignored.
---------

Please, quote the NT and share with me your own opinion. I find too fallacious to appeal to "authorities" or to adopt the opinion of another who has built his opinion from reading the same text as I have, unless I am actually debating the issue with him or her as
I am with you.

Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#24 Feb 21, 2013
Kevin McMillen wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it implies that Jesus is above the traditions of men.
Have you ever read the Mishnah, do you know the traditions of the Jews? Jesus was a Jew, not Greek.
--------

In that case, let us study him as a Jew and not a Greek. To begin with, he was born of Joseph and Mary and not of God and Mary. This is found only in the Greek myth of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman.

Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#25 Feb 21, 2013
buck wrote:
<quoted text>
okay so smart ben (you think you are so self righteous) where does the missing day fit in? what day do you suppose is missing? remember the sun stood still for nearly a day and then at one time the degree of the sun was turned back 10 degrees. that adds up to about one day missing. today in our society and by our calendar that has stood for quite a length of time; today is Thursday February 21, 2013. Now if you calculate this missing day IT IS NOT ACTUALLY THURSDAY. GET THE DRIFT KEVIN? is it sinking in?
-----

Sorry Buck, but this post of yours seems to be a non-sequitur. I don't see any connection at all between the time Jesus was supposed to be in the tomb according to Mat. 12:40 and the "stood still" of the sun neither with the ten degrees or steps that went back in the sun dial of Ahaz. Anyways, those references are not literal but metaphorical. Since Mat. 12:40 was not predicted by a prophet it must be taken literally.

Ben
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#26 Feb 21, 2013
Friday evening to Sunday is not 3 days and 3 night and not even 3 days.

Jesus Died Wed on Passover and Rose after sunset on Saturday night, which would now be considered the 1rst day Sunday since new days started at sunset back then
Kevin McMillen

Morgantown, WV

#27 Feb 21, 2013
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
--------
In that case, let us study him as a Jew and not a Greek. To begin with, he was born of Joseph and Mary and not of God and Mary. This is found only in the Greek myth of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman.
Ben
So you don't believe the bible?

Mat 1:18 ¶ Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost

It says before they came together.

I know of all the myths of virgins conceiving gods. Does that bother you?

Don't you think that Satan knew all the prophecies about Jesus and could counterfeit them?

Sorry, but my Lord and Saviour is Yehoshua, Jesus the Christ, born of a virgin.
buck

AOL

#28 Feb 21, 2013
ben masada who likes to hide wherever you are full of yourself and like to hear yourself speak out it seems.
you're just trying to "argue" YOUR WAY IS RIGHT and guess what BUZZZZ IT IS NOT RIGHT! and just because GOD used a prophet does not mean the passage cannot be taken any more literal than another.
You just can't pick a part of the Bible to believe, you either believe it ALL or not at all!

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#29 Feb 21, 2013
Ant wrote:
Friday evening to Sunday is not 3 days and 3 night and not even 3 days.
Jesus Died Wed on Passover and Rose after sunset on Saturday night, which would now be considered the 1rst day Sunday since new days started at sunset back then
<><
See my post above showing that for the Jews at the time of Jesus a part of a day was considered as a complete day.
<><
Jesus did not die on Wednesday and Wednesday was not the passover. All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on Paraskeue, translated preparation, which always designated the weekday before the Sabbath, Friday in English. I have documented this above also.
<><
Jesus rose just before dawn on Monday. "At the rising of the sun" is NOT "after sunset Saturday night!"
<><
....Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they
....came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#30 Feb 21, 2013
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
---------
Please, quote the NT and share with me your own opinion. I find too fallacious to appeal to "authorities" or to adopt the opinion of another who has built his opinion from reading the same text as I have, unless I am actually debating the issue with him or her as
I am with you.
Ben
<><
Thank you! Unless you read both Hebrew and Greek fluently, every time you read the Bible you are reading an "authority," the translator, and you have to rely on your favorite "authority" i.e. whichever version you prefer.
<><
There is a huge difference between quoting an "authority" and quoting Jewish scholars who cite Jewish history.
<><
Unless you read Hebrew and have independent knowledge of Jewish history your opinion does not interest me.
<><
OBTW I do read both Hebrew and Greek. I studied them both at the graduate level more than 3 decades ago.
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#31 Feb 21, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
See my post above showing that for the Jews at the time of Jesus a part of a day was considered as a complete day.
<><
Jesus did not die on Wednesday and Wednesday was not the passover. All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on Paraskeue, translated preparation, which always designated the weekday before the Sabbath, Friday in English. I have documented this above also.
<><
Jesus rose just before dawn on Monday. "At the rising of the sun" is NOT "after sunset Saturday night!"
<><
....Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they
....came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
I dont know if you mean Sunday instead of Monday since Sunday is the 1rst day of the week. All 4 gospels states he had already risen when he came there. So we know he didnt rise at dawn.

Matthew 28:1
28 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

Mark 16:2
2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

Luke 24:1
Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them,[a] came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.

John 20:1
Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#32 Feb 21, 2013
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
--------
Not my opinion. The opinion of the gospels. As long as you do not quote your opinions the opinion of the gospels will stand. That jesus was buried either Wednesday or Thursday is your opinion. Such
an opinion is nowhere recorded in the gospels. You must be trying to read your own opinion into the gospels. Again, the day or part of a day is accounted for a day. The night or part of a night is account as a night. The guy who wrote Mat. 12:40 speaks of three deays and three nights. He did not say "in three days." He said
"Three days and three nights." How can that be so hard to understand?
Ben
<><
Burial on Wednesday or Thursday is not my opinion that is what some people believe and I was showing how both are wrong. I believe that Jesus was buried about 5 pm Friday afternoon just as scripture says and that he rose just before dawn on Sunday morning just as scripture says.
<><
Is Matt 12:40 the only verse in your Bible?
<><
Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
<><
Mar 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
<><
Mar 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
<><
Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
<><
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
<><
As I said "in three days" and "after three days" and "on the third day." means the same thing as "three days and three nights"
<><
"In three days" and "on the third day" both would not include the third night.
<><
"After three days" would be on the 4th day.
<><
So according to scripture "in three days,""after three days,""on the third day,"" and "three days and three nights" mean the same thing. Which does not necessarily mean three complete 24 hour days.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#33 Feb 21, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<><
See my post above showing that for the Jews at the time of Jesus a part of a day was considered as a complete day.
<><
Jesus did not die on Wednesday and Wednesday was not the passover. All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on Paraskeue, translated preparation, which always designated the weekday before the Sabbath, Friday in English. I have documented this above also.
<><
Jesus rose just before dawn on Sunday. "At the rising of the sun" is NOT "after sunset Saturday night!"
<><
....Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they
....came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
End Quote wrote:
In this post I was addressing your post where you said
Jesus Died Wed on Passover and Rose after sunset on Saturday night, which would now be considered the 1rst day Sunday since new days started at sunset back then.
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont know if you mean Sunday instead of Monday since Sunday is the 1rst day of the week. All 4 gospels states he had already risen when he came there. So we know he didnt rise at dawn.

Matthew 28:1
28 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

Mark 16:2
2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

Luke 24:1
Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them,[a] came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.

John 20:1
Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
I quoted scripture which says Jesus rose "at dawn." You quoted the same scripture.
<><
Mark 16:2
2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.
<><
But in your previous post you said "Jesus Died Wed on Passover and Rose after sunset on Saturday night," So which is it?
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#34 Feb 21, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
<><
See my post above showing that for the Jews at the time of Jesus a part of a day was considered as a complete day.
<><
Jesus did not die on Wednesday and Wednesday was not the passover. All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on Paraskeue, translated preparation, which always designated the weekday before the Sabbath, Friday in English. I have documented this above also.
<><
Jesus rose just before dawn on Sunday. "At the rising of the sun" is NOT "after sunset Saturday night!"
<><
....Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they
....came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
<quoted text>
In this post I was addressing your post where you said
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I quoted scripture which says Jesus rose "at dawn." You quoted the same scripture.
<><
Mark 16:2
2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.
<><
But in your previous post you said "Jesus Died Wed on Passover and Rose after sunset on Saturday night," So which is it?
I said rose after sunset when it was dark, which would now be counted as Sunday, this is assuming he meant 3 days 3 nights. But there is no way 3 can be made from Friday to Sunday. The best outcome is 2 days at best.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#35 Feb 21, 2013
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
I said rose after sunset when it was dark, which would now be counted as Sunday, this is assuming he meant 3 days 3 nights. But there is no way 3 can be made from Friday to Sunday. The best outcome is 2 days at best.
<><
That is your assumption not what Jews understood.
<><
Jewish Encyclopedia – DAY
In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. i. 5), lasting "from dawn [lit. "the rising of the morning"] to the coming forth of the stars" (Neh. iv. 15, 17). The term "day" is used also to denote a period of twenty-four hours (Ex. xxi. 21). In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day. Again, a man who hears of a vow made by his wife or his daughter, and desires to cancel the vow, must do so on the same day on which he hears of it, as otherwise the protest has no effect; even if the hearing takes place a little time before night, the annulment must be done within that little time. The day is reckoned from evening to evening—i.e., night and day—except in reference to sacrifices, where daytime and the night following constitute one day (Lev. vii. 15; see Calendar).
.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp...
.
tektonicorg wrote:
This is actually an instance in which we need to understand Jewish idiom, which understood "a day and a night" to include even the smallest part of a day and night. A Jewish source from after the time of the New Testament puts it this way: "A day and a night are an Onah ['a portion of time'] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it" [J.Talmud, Shabbath 9.3 and b.Talmud, Pesahim 4a] Other examples of this kind of usage can be found throughout the Bible (Gen. 42:16, 1Kings 20:29, Esth. 4:16, Matt. 27:63). Jesus was in the tomb for only a small part of Friday and Sunday, but that counts according to Jewish idiom for the entire "day and night" for each of those days.
.
The fuller Talmud cite reads:
.
Weigh well that which is disputed in the tract Schabbath, concerning the uncleanness of a woman for three days; where many things are discussed by the Gemarists concerning the computation of this space of three days. Among other things, these words occur; "R. Ismael saith, Sometimes it contains four Onoth, sometimes five, sometimes six. But how much is the space of an Onah? R. Jochanon saith either a day or a night." And so also the Jerusalem Talmud; "R. Akiba fixed a day for an Onah, and a night for an Onah: but the tradition is, that R. Eliezar Ben Azariah said, A day and a night make an Onah, and a part of an Onah is as a whole." And a little after, R. Ismael computeth a part of the Onah for the whole.(p. 210, vol. 2, Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica)
...
[I]n Pinchas Lapide's The Resurrection of Jesus (91-2). He takes the reference to the "third day" as alluding to various passages in the OT where the after a "third day" something happens in the "history of salvation," (Gen. 22:4, 42:18; Ex. 19:16; Jonah 1:17; Esther 5:1; Hos. 6:2) and thus "has nothing to do with the date or counting of time but contains for ears which are educated biblically a clear reference to God's mercy and grace which is revealed after two days of afflication and death by way of redemption."
.
In other words, it is a literary device, and thus must be read as one.
http://www.tektonics.org/af/bucknerj01.html#d...
buck

AOL

#36 Feb 21, 2013
thank you for your input mr. richards.
now if some would actually take the time to "read" what you have taken the time to kindly write their eyes might be opened more. again thanks bro.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#37 Feb 21, 2013
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
I said rose after sunset when it was dark, which would now be counted as Sunday, this is assuming he meant 3 days 3 nights. But there is no way 3 can be made from Friday to Sunday. The best outcome is 2 days at best.
<><
This is what you think but not what the Jews understood.
<><
JewishEncyclopediaDAY wrote:

...
In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. i. 5), lasting "from dawn [lit. "the rising of the morning"] to the coming forth of the stars" (Neh. iv. 15, 17). The term "day" is used also to denote a period of twenty-four hours (Ex. xxi. 21). In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day. Again, a man who hears of a vow made by his wife or his daughter, and desires to cancel the vow, must do so on the same day on which he hears of it, as otherwise the protest has no effect; even if the hearing takes place a little time before night, the annulment must be done within that little time. The day is reckoned from evening to evening—i.e., night and day—except in reference to sacrifices, where daytime and the night following constitute one day (Lev. vii. 15; see Calendar)...

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp...
<><
tektonicorg wrote:
[Here] we need to understand Jewish idiom, which understood "a day and a night" to include even the smallest part of a day and night. A Jewish source from after the time of the New Testament puts it this way: "A day and a night are an Onah ['a portion of time'] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it" [J.Talmud, Shabbath 9.3 and b.Talmud, Pesahim 4a] Other examples of this kind of usage can be found throughout the Bible (Gen. 42:16, 1Kings 20:29, Esth. 4:16, Matt. 27:63). Jesus was in the tomb for only a small part of Friday and Sunday, but that counts according to Jewish idiom for the entire "day and night" for each of those days.
.
The fuller Talmud cite reads:
.
Weigh well that which is disputed in the tract Schabbath, concerning the uncleanness of a woman for three days; where many things are discussed by the Gemarists concerning the computation of this space of three days. Among other things, these words occur; "R. Ismael saith, Sometimes it contains four Onoth, sometimes five, sometimes six. But how much is the space of an Onah? R. Jochanon saith either a day or a night." And so also the Jerusalem Talmud; "R. Akiba fixed a day for an Onah, and a night for an Onah: but the tradition is, that R. Eliezar Ben Azariah said, A day and a night make an Onah, and a part of an Onah is as a whole." And a little after, R. Ismael computeth a part of the Onah for the whole.(p. 210, vol. 2, Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica)
...
[I]n Pinchas Lapide's The Resurrection of Jesus (91-2). He takes the reference to the "third day" as alluding to various passages in the OT where the after a "third day" something happens in the "history of salvation," (Gen. 22:4, 42:18; Ex. 19:16; Jonah 1:17; Esther 5:1; Hos. 6:2) and thus "has nothing to do with the date or counting of time but contains for ears which are educated biblically a clear reference to God's mercy and grace which is revealed after two days of afflication and death by way of redemption."

In other words, it is a literary device, and thus must be read as one.

http://www.tektonics.org/af/bucknerj01.html#d...
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#38 Feb 21, 2013
On what day did Jesus die?

Mark says Jesus died in the morning on the day of the Passover.(Mark 15:25)

John days Jesus dies on the day BEFORE Passover, the "Day of Preparation for the Passover." (John 19:14)

Which is it?

They can't BOTH be true, can they?

From Bart Ehrman's "Jesus, Interrupted" pages 25-27

Jesus and his disciples have made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem for the Passover feast. In Mark 14:12, the disciples ask Jesus where they are to prepare the Passover meal for that evening. In other words, this is on the Day of Preparation for Passover. Jesus gives them instructions. They make the preparations, and when it is evening-the beginning of Passover day-they have the meal. It is a special meal indeed. Jesus takes the symbolic foods of the Passover and imbues them with yet more symbolic meaning. He takes the unleavened bread, breaks it, and says, "This is my body." By implication, his body must be broken for salvation. Then after supper he takes the cup of wine and says, "This is my blood of the covenant, that is poured out for many" (Mark 14:22-25), meaning that his own blood must be shed.

After the disciples eat the Passover meal they go out to the Garden of Gethsemane to pray. Judas Iscariot brings the troops and performs his act of betrayal. Jesus is taken to stand trial before the Jewish authorities. He spends the night in jail, and the next morning he is put on trial before the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, who finds him guilty and condemns him to death by crucifixion. We are told that he is crucified that same day, at nine o'clock in the morning (Mark 15:25). Jesus, then, dies on the day of Passover, the morning after the Passover meal was eaten.

In the Gospel of John, Jesus goes to Jerusalem in the last week of his life to celebrate the Passover feast, and here, too, there is a last meal, a betrayal, a trial before Pilate, and the crucifixion. But it is striking that in John, at the beginning of the account, in contrast to Mark, the disciples do not ask Jesus where they are "to prepare the Passover." Consequently, he gives them no instructions for preparing the meal. They do eat a final supper together.

After the meal they go out. Jesus is betrayed by Judas, appears before the Jewish authorities, spends the night in jail, and is put on trial before Pontius Pilate, who finds him guilty and condemns him to be crucified. And we are told exactly when Pilate pronounces the sentence: "It was the Day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon" (John 19:14).

Noon? On the Day of Preparation for the Passover? The day the lambs were slaughtered? How can that be? In Mark's Gospel, Jesus lived through that day, had his disciples prepare the Passover meal, and ate it with them before being arrested, taken to jail for the night, tried the next morning, and executed at 9 A.M. on the Passover day. But not in John. In John, Jesus dies a day earlier, on the Day of reparation for the Passover, sometime after noon.

And so the contradiction stands: in Mark, Jesus eats the Passover meal (Thursday night) and is crucified the following morning. In John, Jesus does not eat the Passover meal but is crucified on the day before the Passover meal was to be eaten.4 Moreover, in Mark, Jesus is nailed to the cross at nine in the morning; in John, he is not condemned until noon, and then he is taken out and crucified.
socci

Cameron, MO

#39 Feb 21, 2013

The overwhelming evidence says nooo...

www.wednesdaycrucifixion.com


“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#40 Feb 21, 2013
Gillette wrote:
On what day did Jesus die?
Mark says Jesus died in the morning on the day of the Passover.(Mark 15:25)
John days Jesus dies on the day BEFORE Passover, the "Day of Preparation for the Passover." (John 19:14)
Which is it?
They can't BOTH be true, can they?
From Bart Ehrman's "Jesus, Interrupted" pages 25-27...
<><
Have you ever actually read the Bible, yourself, or do you just blindly accept what any atheist like Bart Ehrman says? Mark, as do all four gospels, says Jesus was crucified on "Paraskeue", Preparation, the Greek word for Friday.
<><
Mar 15:42-43
(42) And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
(43) Joseph of Arimathaea,... came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
<><
As for the difference in how the time is stated.
<><
tektonicorg wrote:
Contradiction is sometimes alleged in that Mark reports the crucifixion at the third hour (Mark 15:25) while John says the sixth. The basic reply is that Mark and the other synoptics are using Jewish time (sunset to sunset; third hour = 9 AM); John is using some form of Roman time, which is like ours (sixth hour = 6 AM - note that John says about the sixth hour; he's estimating). The former method is still used in the Middle East, and we and other Western nations use the latter.

We know from the Synoptics that the crucifixion took over 6 hours. If John's sixth hour is really the Jewish sixth hour - noon, as unfortunately, even the Living Bible says - then the crucifixion lasted past the time when the Sabbath started. John 19:31 says that the Jews didn't want the bodies left up over the Sabbath, which obviously means that the Sabbath hadn't started yet.

So either John is giving us an extraordinarily short crucifixion, or he is giving us the time in some Roman mode. Since crucifixions were usually extended affairs, the latter assumption is more valid.

But there is an even more clear indication that John is using some form of Roman time. In John 1:39 we are told that Andrew and Peter met Jesus and "spent that day with him. It was about the tenth hour." If this were Jewish time, that would make it 4 PM - too late to spend the "day" with someone (or maybe 4 AM, as some suggest, which at any rate is not usual visiting hours).

But by the other chronology, it is 10 AM - ample time to spend the day. This is a pretty clear indication of how John is reckoning things.(But again, the LIV gets it wrong here. John 4:6 is a time reference that would fit either paradigm as well.)

Many Romans did use this sort of time, but others did not. The time like ours (midnight to midnight) was known to be used in legal matters, and there is some evidence from martyrdom accounts in the area that this sort of time was used in Asia Minor, where John did his evangelism. Pliny the Elder also notes that various professions varied in their reckoning of time. It is our contention that the evidence does point to John using a "midnight to midnight" model.

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/passovertime.html...

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#41 Feb 22, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
No you are not reading. You are ignoring everything I posted and just repeating your same argument over and over and over as if by repetition you can somehow make it so. In Jewish thought a part of a day was considered a whole day. As shown by the sources I quoted, above, "three days and three nights" means the same thing as "in three days,""on the third day," and "after three days."
How do you get three full days and three full nights, if, according to your argument, Jesus was crucified around 4-5pm Wednesday or Thursday afternoon, and resurrected around 5am Sunday morning?
If Jesus was buried around 4-5pm Wednesday, three full days and nights, he would be resurrected around 4-5pm Saturday.
If Jesus was buried around 4-5pm Thursday, three full days and nights, he would be resurrected around 4-5pm Sunday.
As the scripture shows Jesus was resurrected around dawn on Sunday. Your calculation is either 12 hours more or less than three days and three nights.
Nice try. Nothing but your opinion.
--------

Okay Allen, if you want this way, here it is: What you have posted does not make sense at all for two reasons: First you don't quote anything to document your assertions. And second, what you say IMHO
only contradicts the written text. That's all. Quote what you say, and I'll be glad to comply.

Ben

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