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61 - 80 of 337 Comments Last updated Oct 14, 2012

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#61 Oct 7, 2012
ms_tickled wrote:
<quoted text>No He didn't... please show me scripture where Jesus says take up your cross and follow the Pope,Allah,Mohammed,Buddah,Mic heal the Archangel,Joseph Smith ecetera or even a doggone denomination> baptist,methodist,presberteria n,pentacostal,7th day adventist...ecetera.
The Church is the Body of Christ

Romans 12:4-5 - though many, we are one body in Christ
1 Corinthians 6:15 - don't you know that your bodies are members of Christ
1 Corinthians 12:20-27 - you are Christ's body, individually parts of it
Ephesians 5:30 - we are members of his body
Colossians 1:18 - He is the head of the Body, the Church

spacer_graphictop

The Church must be one.

John 10:16 - there shall be one fold and one shepherd
John 17:17-23 - I pray that they may be one, as we are one
John 17:23 - that they may be brought to perfection as one
Romans 12:5 - we, though many, are one body in Christ
Romans 15:5 - God grant you to think in harmony with one another
Romans 16:17 - avoid those who create dissensions
1 Corinthians 1:10 - I urge you that there be no divisions among you
1 Corinthians 12:13 - in one spirit we were baptized into one body
Ephesians 4:4-6 -There is one Body, one Spirit, just as one hope is the goal of your calling by God. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all, over all, through all and within all.
Philippians 2:2 - be of same mind, united in heart, thinking one thing
Colossians 3:15 - the peace into which you were called in one body
St. Cyprian (c. 250AD)- "God is one and Christ in one, and one is His Church, and the faith is one, and His people welded together by the glue of concord into a solid unity of body. Unity cannot be rent asunder, nor can the one body of the Church, through the division of its structure, be divided into separate pieces." (On the Unity of the Church, 23)
Tertullian (c. 197AD)- "We are a society with a single religious feeling, a single unity of discipline, a single bond of hope," (Apology 39, 1)
St. Hilary (c. 4th century)- "In the Scriptures our people are shown to be made one, so that just as many grains collected into one and ground and mingled together, make one loaf, so in Christ, who is the heavenly bread, we know there is one holy, in which our whole company is joined and united" (Treatise 62, 13)

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#62 Oct 8, 2012
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, yes He did.
You surely left out a bunch of scripture here.
Then you won't mind filling in that supposedly left out "bunch of scripture?" Not a lengthy C/P from Catholics-r-Us.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#63 Oct 8, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you won't mind filling in that supposedly left out "bunch of scripture?" Not a lengthy C/P from Catholics-r-Us.
Actually, since Catholics wrote the NT and the Catholic Church gave it to the world, I will continue to use any and all Catholic links as I please.
You see, no one can interpret the NT better than the folks who wrote it.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#64 Oct 8, 2012
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, since Catholics wrote the NT and the Catholic Church gave it to the world, I will continue to use any and all Catholic links as I please.
You see, no one can interpret the NT better than the folks who wrote it.
I guess you believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy too. There was NO Catholic church until 1073 when Gregory VII (1073-1085), "pronounced the title of ‘pope’ the sole and peculiar dignity of the Bishops of Rome. In his Dictatus Papae (1075), he stated that the pope had the right to depose emperors, that the pope’s authority is the authority of Christ, that the papal office alone was universal in its authority"

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#65 Oct 8, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy too. There was NO Catholic church until 1073 when Gregory VII (1073-1085), "pronounced the title of ‘pope’ the sole and peculiar dignity of the Bishops of Rome. In his Dictatus Papae (1075), he stated that the pope had the right to depose emperors, that the pope’s authority is the authority of Christ, that the papal office alone was universal in its authority"
There was never any need to 'name' the church until some starting drawing away and starting their own particular church with differing beliefs.
The Catholic Church EXISTED from the time Jesus founded it.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#66 Oct 8, 2012
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>There was never any need to 'name' the church until some starting drawing away and starting their own particular church with differing beliefs.
The Catholic Church EXISTED from the time Jesus founded it.
The "catholic," lower case, as in universal church did exist. But the "Catholic", upper case as in the church which has its headquarters in Rome did NOT exist until 1075.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#67 Oct 8, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
The "catholic," lower case, as in universal church did exist. But the "Catholic", upper case as in the church which has its headquarters in Rome did NOT exist until 1075.
You don't seem to understand.
There was never any need to NAME the church that Jesus founded until SOME started pulling away and forming their own churches, which differed in different ways from the original teachings or the first, original church....the Catholic Church.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#68 Oct 8, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
The "catholic," lower case, as in universal church did exist. But the "Catholic", upper case as in the church which has its headquarters in Rome did NOT exist until 1075.
As mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles, it is true that the followers of Christ early became known as "Christians" (cf. Acts 11:26). The name Christian, however, was never commonly applied to the Church herself. In the New Testament itself, the Church is simply called "the Church." There was only one. In that early time there were not yet any break-away bodies substantial enough to be rival claimants of the name and from which the Church might ever have to distinguish herself.

Very early in post-apostolic times, however. the Church did acquire a proper name--and precisely in order to distinguish herself from rival bodies which by then were already beginning to form. The name that the Church acquired when it became necessary for her to have a proper name was the name by which she has been known ever since-the Catholic Church.

The name appears in Christian literature for the first time around the end of the first century. By the time it was written down, it had certainly already been in use, for the indications are that everybody understood exactly what was meant by the name when it was written.

Around the year A.D. 107, a bishop, St. Ignatius of Antioch in the Near East, was arrested, brought to Rome by armed guards and eventually martyred there in the arena. In a farewell letter which this early bishop and martyr wrote to his fellow Christians in Smyrna (today Izmir in modern Turkey), he made the first written mention in history of "the Catholic Church." He wrote, "Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" (To the Smyrnaeans 8:2). Thus, the second century of Christianity had scarcely begun when the name of the Catholic Church was already in use.

Thereafter, mention of the name became more and more frequent in the written record. It appears in the oldest written account we possess outside the New Testament of the martyrdom of a Christian for his faith, the "Martyrdom of St. Polycarp," bishop of the same Church of Smyrna to which St. Ignatius of Antioch had written. St. Polycarp was martyred around 155, and the account of his sufferings dates back to that time. The narrator informs us that in his final prayers before giving up his life for Christ, St. Polycarp "remembered all who had met with him at any time, both small and great, both those with and those without renown, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world."
www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb3.htm

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#69 Oct 8, 2012
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>You don't seem to understand.
There was never any need to NAME the church that Jesus founded until SOME started pulling away and forming their own churches, which differed in different ways from the original teachings or the first, original church....the Catholic Church.
That is somewhat interesting. Got any documentation?
FSM

Greenvale, Australia

#70 Oct 8, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
NO, ZERO, NONE evidence for these assertions!
"When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
But the more they were called, the more they went away from me. They sacrificed to the Baals and they burned incense to images."
Hosea 11:1-2

What does the above passage have to do with the messiah?
FSM

Greenvale, Australia

#71 Oct 8, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
Scriptures?
http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892 792.html
FSM

Greenvale, Australia

#72 Oct 8, 2012
delete space between 2 and 7.
FSM

Greenvale, Australia

#73 Oct 8, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
The Two Messiahs
As the rabbis studied the prophetic writings concerning the Messiah they realized that most Messianic prophecies seem to fall into two categories. The Messiah was to be both someone who died on our behalf and a Redeemer who would be victorious and rule forever over the Messianic Kingdom. To explain what seemed like a contradiction they concluded that there must be two different Messiahs. The one who would suffer and die was given the title Mashiach ben Yosef (Messiah son of Joseph) and one who would reign as king was given the title Mashiach ben David (Messiah son of David).
The Suffering Messiah:(Messiah Son of Joseph)
The Ruling Messiah:(Messiah Son of David)
http://jewishroots.net/library/messianic/two-...
I'll give you credit for being the first Christian I've seen attempt to answer that challenge. I appreciate that.:)

I don't dismiss new information lightly, so I'll keep your response in mind.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#74 Oct 8, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
That is somewhat interesting. Got any documentation?
From 325 AD until the Great Schism in 1450 it was the only Christian Church.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#75 Oct 8, 2012
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>As mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles, it is true that the followers of Christ early became known as "Christians" (cf. Acts 11:26). The name Christian, however, was never commonly applied to the Church herself. In the New Testament itself, the Church is simply called "the Church." There was only one. In that early time there were not yet any break-away bodies substantial enough to be rival claimants of the name and from which the Church might ever have to distinguish herself.
Very early in post-apostolic times, however. the Church did acquire a proper name--and precisely in order to distinguish herself from rival bodies which by then were already beginning to form. The name that the Church acquired when it became necessary for her to have a proper name was the name by which she has been known ever since-the Catholic Church.
The name appears in Christian literature for the first time around the end of the first century. By the time it was written down, it had certainly already been in use, for the indications are that everybody understood exactly what was meant by the name when it was written.
Around the year A.D. 107, a bishop, St. Ignatius of Antioch in the Near East, was arrested, brought to Rome by armed guards and eventually martyred there in the arena. In a farewell letter which this early bishop and martyr wrote to his fellow Christians in Smyrna (today Izmir in modern Turkey), he made the first written mention in history of "the Catholic Church." He wrote, "Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" (To the Smyrnaeans 8:2). Thus, the second century of Christianity had scarcely begun when the name of the Catholic Church was already in use.
Thereafter, mention of the name became more and more frequent in the written record. It appears in the oldest written account we possess outside the New Testament of the martyrdom of a Christian for his faith, the "Martyrdom of St. Polycarp," bishop of the same Church of Smyrna to which St. Ignatius of Antioch had written. St. Polycarp was martyred around 155, and the account of his sufferings dates back to that time. The narrator informs us that in his final prayers before giving up his life for Christ, St. Polycarp "remembered all who had met with him at any time, both small and great, both those with and those without renown, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world."
www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb3.htm
That is a typical RCC propaganda article but I did not see any historical evidence. "Catholic church" was not a name! It simply meant the whole church. And there was another term used to identify Christians in the NT,"that way."

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#76 Oct 8, 2012
FSM wrote:
<quoted text>I'll give you credit for being the first Christian I've seen attempt to answer that challenge. I appreciate that.:)
I don't dismiss new information lightly, so I'll keep your response in mind.
Another thing you should keep in mind is that Israel rejects so-called 'Messianic Judaism' altogether.

http://jewishroots.net/

Consider the source.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#77 Oct 8, 2012
FSM wrote:
Note the argument against a second coming of the Messiah at this link is contradicted by this information that I posted earlier.

"The Two Messiahs

As the rabbis studied the prophetic writings concerning the Messiah they realized that most Messianic prophecies seem to fall into two categories. The Messiah was to be both someone who died on our behalf and a Redeemer who would be victorious and rule forever over the Messianic Kingdom. To explain what seemed like a contradiction they concluded that there must be two different Messiahs. The one who would suffer and die was given the title Mashiach ben Yosef (Messiah son of Joseph) and one who would reign as king was given the title Mashiach ben David (Messiah son of David).

The Suffering Messiah:(Messiah Son of Joseph)

The Ruling Messiah:(Messiah Son of David)"

http://jewishroots.net/library/messianic/two-...

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#78 Oct 8, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a typical RCC propaganda article but I did not see any historical evidence. "Catholic church" was not a name! It simply meant the whole church. And there was another term used to identify Christians in the NT,"that way."
The Bishop of Rome has been the spiritual head of Western Christianity since Clement I who Tertullian says was appointed by Saint Peter.
FSM

Greenvale, Australia

#79 Oct 8, 2012
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
Another thing you should keep in mind is that Israel rejects so-called 'Messianic Judaism' altogether.
http://jewishroots.net/
Consider the source.
No doubt. I didn't say I believe the contents of AR's link, but it annoys me when others dismiss my claims out of hand without even considering their validity or responding to the points of my post. I'm usually just grateful to see a new response that I haven't seen before.

The easiest option would have been to pull the link apart for lack of references and logical fallacies, but I don't want to be an AR clone.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#80 Oct 8, 2012
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
Another thing you should keep in mind is that Israel rejects so-called 'Messianic Judaism' altogether.
http://jewishroots.net/
Consider the source.
And the Messianic Jews reject the rejection of the so-called orthodoxy. Oh yes consider the source. Logical fallacy, poisoning the well. Let us just ignore that the information at the Jewishroots site is from the Talmud which is not rejected by Israel.

http://www.chaim.org/2messiah.htm

http://www.koshertorah.com/PDF/2messiahs.pdf

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