Atheist Trolls, PLEASE SHOW PROOF GOD...
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#28 Jun 11, 2013
Now back to the biblical god....

1 John 4:8, Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 Cor 13:4-7, Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

This is just one principle but there are many but look at love...

Okay if those scriptures are true then they prove that the biblical god does not exist...

The bible states that we are to be judged and either rewarded or punished... but how can this be when cor tells us that love does not keep a record of any wrongs?

John tells us that god is love and yet he compelled the Jews to commit genocide and other war crimes..

He says he knows us from before we are embryos but then lets the devil taunt him into giving direct permission to murder Job's servants & children,

Job2:3.. And the Lord said to Satan,“Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.”..
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#29 Jun 11, 2013
So I'm the first to admit that I can't prove what eternity is but I know what love is (now I'm sounding like Forrest Gump)...

But seriously... how can anyone believe that god is love and then accept as okay some of the things that the bible and all the other brands and books of scriptures say about him?

If you are parent you only have to look at your kids and analyse the love you have for them and then compare that to what the bible states about god and its easy to see....

It just does not add up...

But you know in saying what I have.... it does not stop me from loving the creation, loving my fellow man as I love myself....

I don't need 'fear' of god to try me best to do what is right.... its just logic...

Be kind, and you usually attract kindness, be hateful and you get hate or if you prefer to have it from your bible.....

We reap what we sow.... and if you prefer science.... cause and effect...
Cujo

Leask, Canada

#30 Jun 12, 2013
OKAY wrote:
<quoted text>
You came from rock?
You came from clay?

Go read some books on astro-physics, evolution and biology. Quit reading an ancient 2000 year old philosophical book for your knowledge of the natural world.
Cujo

Leask, Canada

#31 Jun 12, 2013
Ant wrote:
For all the Christianity bashing by the atheists about Christians believing in the Sky fairy, you atheists still cant prove God doesn't exist.
Because we aren't the ones claiming that god is real. It's up to you to prove your claim.

That's the beautiful thing about science. It doesn't claim anything. It follows the evidence and has peer reviewed papers to come to it's conclusion. You already have a conclusion, without any evidence, or try and insert evidence that isn't evidence at all, like the bible. All you have is faith.

Until you can find any empirical evidence of your god, I have no logical reason to believe.
Cujo

Leask, Canada

#32 Jun 12, 2013
JesusMyLord wrote:
<quoted text>Unfortunately for yoy, some of us get to know that God exists. WE CAN in fact prove that God exists. Eye witness testimony. If you do not have evidence, then perhaps you missed Hebrews 11:1.
Eye witness testimony is not proof at all. The courts prove all the time that eye witness testimony is not always reliable. Again, the bible is not proof.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#33 Jun 12, 2013
Ant wrote:
Since so many atheists are on the Christian Forum than they are on their own forum and love to say our beliefs are false, please answer these questions.
Who created the universe?
Since your faith are in scientist over God...WHO created the big bang, since you believe in that?
Did dust appear out of nowhere, if there's no dirt, did a explosion happen without the of the ingredients for one?
Who created those ingredients?
Who created the earth?
Who created water, light, and animals?
The answer is quite simple that there had to be a creator of all this, so please provide proof that God doesn't exist and everything I listed just happened.
Logic 101

Logical Fallacy, Appeal to Ignorance: This is the claim that whatever has not been proved false must be true.

Example: "You cannot prove that God does not exist, so He does."

To ask for proof that “God” does not exist is as absurd as asking for proof that leprechauns do not exist. You know how to believe but now you need to learn how to think.
OKAY

Houston, TX

#34 Jun 12, 2013
nc resident wrote:
<quoted text>
Stardust.
ziggy?
OKAY

Houston, TX

#36 Jun 12, 2013
corr

Why? you read a 150 year old philosophical book for your knowledge of the natural world.
Punisher

Brooklyn, NY

#37 Jun 12, 2013
Ant wrote:
Since so many atheists are on the Christian Forum than they are on their own forum and love to say our beliefs are false, please answer these questions.

1. Who created the universe?

Since your faith are in scientist over God...WHO created the big bang, since you believe in that?
Did dust appear out of nowhere, if there's no dirt, did a explosion happen without the of the ingredients for one?

2. Who created those ingredients?
3. Who created the earth?
4. Who created water, light, and animals?

The answer is quite simple that there had to be a creator of all this, so please provide proof that God doesn't exist and everything I listed just happened.
No there did not HAVE to be a creator.

Do we always have to go over this poor logic of American Xtians? Who created your creator? Your logic demands it!

1-4, No one, no Who created 'em. And frankly as to how it was "created" I personally don't care. Its here and that's what matters.
Punisher

Brooklyn, NY

#38 Jun 12, 2013
Ant wrote:
For all the Christianity bashing by the atheists about Christians believing in the Sky fairy, you atheists still cant prove God doesn't exist.
No need to. No sign of one to date, so why would we bother with a silly and illogical venture as what you ask?

+/- 5K years now and no proof at all of any God.
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#39 Jun 12, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>No there did not HAVE to be a creator.
Do we always have to go over this poor logic of American Xtians? Who created your creator? Your logic demands it!
1-4, No one, no Who created 'em. And frankly as to how it was "created" I personally don't care. Its here and that's what matters.
Come on now, you strongly agree no one created anything and we all just happen to just be here and exist. It takes way more faith to believe that, than to just accept that there is a God who created everything.

There is no way that humans just happened to create themselves and exist and have bodies that can pretty much heal themselves and we just happen to be on the only planet where life can exist, atleast in our own solar system. Im pretty sure there is life in other galaxies.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#40 Jun 12, 2013
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on now, you strongly agree no one created anything and we all just happen to just be here and exist. It takes way more faith to believe that, than to just accept that there is a God who created everything.
There is no way that humans just happened to create themselves and exist and have bodies that can pretty much heal themselves and we just happen to be on the only planet where life can exist, atleast in our own solar system. Im pretty sure there is life in other galaxies.
But why do we need a god at all? It doesn't change anything. Can't we see that the need to have a subject to project our worship toward is an aspect of our ego?

Why can't we just accept that we don't know and that it does not matter that we don't know...

When we create god(s)... we are separating ourselves from whatever process is taking place, the universal pulse, the expanding universe

And then rather than seeing ourselves for what we undeniably are....an actual living unit of energy, a component of eternity,(god if you prefer),

We see ourselves as a creation of god....and in my opinion(faith)this is just so wrong... we are not creations of god, no more than our children are created by us... we are the universe, eternity, god

I mean even the man Jesus with his limited scientific knowledge for his time could see that....sure he spoke in religious terms because that's the time he lived in but he was still enlightened enough to have stated we are all one.....

So we create god in our image and then we feel the need to bow down and worship this god (ourselves) and we make him angry, jealous, vengeful god, he even hates....and maybe somehow we think that this excuses us for not getting our stuff together.

I mean it is so obvious that our gods are simply products of the dysfunctional human ego...

JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#41 Jun 12, 2013
And the craziest thing..... when we have a moment of clarity we'll write fairy tales and in them we record that the good, benevolent, rulers as the ones that humble themselves, they're the ones that DON'T want worship,

They're the kings that when one of their subjects kneels before them they lift them up and treat them as an equal...

And then we portray the wicked rulers as the ones that crave the adoration, the worship, they seek to be elevated....they want to be feared.

We get it right in our fairy tales..... but the reality is when it comes to our religious gods all common logic, morality and decency is thrown out the window..

We prefer gods that want our fear.....and if we are Christians can it get any worse?
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#42 Jun 12, 2013
If we are Christians we have to accept that we are born already guilty of evil wrongdoing, so heinous, so evil is our guilt that our god, even though as John 4:8 tells us he personifies love.......

He cannot forgive us a human life is offered up, unless we put faith in the ransom sacrifice,

And those two words just roll off the tongue so easily but do we ever stop and actually meditate on what the ransom is?

IT'S HUMAN SACRIFICE!!!!!

And while we have no problems denouncing the act of human sacrifice as wicked and barbaric, one of the darkest stains on human history.....

If we are religious we have no problems with the fact that our god of love is using this very same act as the means to reconcile so called 'sinful man'..... and why would he do such a thing?

He is either guilty of instigating the act of human sacrifice to appease god(s) into the human psyche.... or worse, the act was instigated by ignorant savages and god chose to adopt it as the means to reconcile sinful man...

And you know what... surely we must at least pass the thought even if just for a second...

If he is god almighty, omnipotent....what would have been wrong with just forgiving Adam & Eve for being a little too curious and disobedient....

I mean in the big picture..... if god is who Christians believe him to be.... then there was no universal sovereignty at risk, nothing to prove to anyone.....
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#43 Jun 12, 2013
Dang. 40 posts in and no atheist has came in and provided anything. I was hoping for some reasonings but all I see is rambling on and on about nothing lol
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#44 Jun 12, 2013
@Triple J.

1.Did God or Jesus say that the only way God would/could forgive men is if someone died for their sins? I'll wait

2. Why do we need God? Well lets say that He exists (He does). Umm how would we NOT need Him? Do you see how the world is? Do you see it getting better? Do YOU YOURSELF have ANY plans to make this world change? All honest questions so please dont take offense. But since the world is OBVIOUSLY MESSED UP right now and only getting worse, how do you see it EVER changing for the better?

3. So Jesus is "enlightened" yet he believed in something? Lol which one is it? Either its the tone you've set (that its a ridiculous, less than beneficial to believe in the Creator) or its "enlightening" as Jesus was. So which one?
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#45 Jun 12, 2013
How you doing Fly? I hope well... first off remember when I use the word enlightened in connection with Jesus I'm using it relatively speaking just comparing his views to the religious leaders of his times...

I mean he still lived in ignorant times relatively speaking...

But at a time when the Pharisees and other Jews were not only prepared to but sanctioned by the law to stone people to death for said sins of a certain type

And Jesus said.... "Let he who is without sin cast first stone"... relatively speaking I call his outlook most certainly enlightened....

Now as far as the forgiveness of sins thing.... I'm not sure what you believe are you Jewish or belong to some other OT sect?

It's okay with me what ever floats your boat as long as you don't harm or even preach harm to others...

So as to your question 'Did God or Jesus say that the only way God would/could forgive men is if someone died for their sins?'

I can't give you a definitive answer cos I don't believe in either of them at least not in the biblical sense. If Jesus really lived then he was just a man.... by most accounts and again relatively speaking in comparison with what was on offer back then.....

A pretty laid back guy.

I also know that way before the bible just about every culture in history has a story about a saviour dying for mankind.... the Jews have the messiah, the Persians had Mithras, the Christians believe that Jesus fit the prophecy Isaiah uttered about the messiah dying for our sins...etc, etc

I mean the Egyptian had Horus I think it was and there is even stuff written about him walking on water, having 12 disciples and so on..

My friend that has just finished a book I have mentioned, he is a Christian and so he believes that the devil made up all these other stories as counterfeits to confuse us but then I'm thinking don't you have the counterfeit after the original and not the other way around?

At least he is honest enough to acknowledge all of it.

But back to your question... I don't know, I only know what I was raised on and what Christians today believe in.....that we need the ransom sacrifice for forgiveness of sins....

if you don't believe that then obviously my discussion has no relevance to you and if this is the case I fail to understand why you continue to wish to debate with me on it....

I mean I'm flattered and all but it makes no sense

But if you are an OT guy... hell we can leave sin and human sacrifice out of the discussion all together and stick to talking about the genocide and other war crimes the OT god is responsible for...

Eithr way I wont have much time. I'm an accountant with my own very small practice and I only ever post at work and July 1 our tax season begins and when that happens I don't have time to post...

To be truthful I've got heaps to do even before then but I can't help myself...

I love thinking about the big question... eternity what is it, etc.... and of course I can se that religion was primitive man's attempt to understand it but to be stuck back in the ideas of men limited to the knowledge that existed a couple of thousand years ago......

madness.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#46 Jun 12, 2013
Now look what you made me do... I raved on that much that you won't probably won't read more than one line anyway...

Keep well Fly perhaps I should say Shalom... I'd rather say Namaste.

Since: Dec 09

Chicago, IL

#47 Jun 13, 2013
JJJ wrote:
How you doing Fly? I hope well... first off remember when I use the word enlightened in connection with Jesus I'm using it relatively speaking just comparing his views to the religious leaders of his times...
I mean he still lived in ignorant times relatively speaking...
But at a time when the Pharisees and other Jews were not only prepared to but sanctioned by the law to stone people to death for said sins of a certain type
And Jesus said.... "Let he who is without sin cast first stone"... relatively speaking I call his outlook most certainly enlightened....
Now as far as the forgiveness of sins thing.... I'm not sure what you believe are you Jewish or belong to some other OT sect?
It's okay with me what ever floats your boat as long as you don't harm or even preach harm to others...
So as to your question 'Did God or Jesus say that the only way God would/could forgive men is if someone died for their sins?'
I can't give you a definitive answer cos I don't believe in either of them at least not in the biblical sense. If Jesus really lived then he was just a man.... by most accounts and again relatively speaking in comparison with what was on offer back then.....
A pretty laid back guy.
I also know that way before the bible just about every culture in history has a story about a saviour dying for mankind.... the Jews have the messiah, the Persians had Mithras, the Christians believe that Jesus fit the prophecy Isaiah uttered about the messiah dying for our sins...etc, etc
I mean the Egyptian had Horus I think it was and there is even stuff written about him walking on water, having 12 disciples and so on..
My friend that has just finished a book I have mentioned, he is a Christian and so he believes that the devil made up all these other stories as counterfeits to confuse us but then I'm thinking don't you have the counterfeit after the original and not the other way around?
At least he is honest enough to acknowledge all of it.
But back to your question... I don't know, I only know what I was raised on and what Christians today believe in.....that we need the ransom sacrifice for forgiveness of sins....
if you don't believe that then obviously my discussion has no relevance to you and if this is the case I fail to understand why you continue to wish to debate with me on it....
I mean I'm flattered and all but it makes no sense
But if you are an OT guy... hell we can leave sin and human sacrifice out of the discussion all together and stick to talking about the genocide and other war crimes the OT god is responsible for...
Eithr way I wont have much time. I'm an accountant with my own very small practice and I only ever post at work and July 1 our tax season begins and when that happens I don't have time to post...
To be truthful I've got heaps to do even before then but I can't help myself...
I love thinking about the big question... eternity what is it, etc.... and of course I can se that religion was primitive man's attempt to understand it but to be stuck back in the ideas of men limited to the knowledge that existed a couple of thousand years ago......
madness.
JJJ: "I love thinking about the big question... eternity what is it, etc.... "

Perhaps the ONLY knowledge and understanding not limited to or by other mens' knowledge and understanding is knowledge and understanding of God.

Sceptical_Mal

“Born again atheist”

Since: Jun 12

Melbourne

#48 Jun 13, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
Dang. 40 posts in and no atheist has came in and provided anything. I was hoping for some reasonings but all I see is rambling on and on about nothing lol
Well the title does say provide proof God does not exist then you provide other questions to answer.

Proof of non existence is not required, it is already evident by all the suffering in the world.

The unanswered prayers

The pedophile priests

The murdering rapists

The child abusers

The discrimination

The list is too long.....

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Christian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Dating Morals 15 hr arrow 10
SCIENTIFIC ERRORS of the BOOK OF REVELATION. (Sep '08) Wed arrow 43
Can You Be A Christian AND Believe In Reincarna... (May '09) Apr 17 pelham2micci 526
doggy style Apr 17 DeDominicis 3
What Does the Word Say Apr 16 arrow 3
In What Epoch or Era Apr 16 Joey 2
Atheism destroyed with one question (Jan '14) Apr 16 Joey 52