Why evolution is true

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#469 Jun 15, 2013
NDangder is an inbred wrote:
To prove any creation, you would first have to prove a god or supernatural....still waiting for your demo or proof of either
Hey dumbazz, this thread isn't about creation... oh wait, my bad, you can't read...I am so sorry...

“Vader2016!”

Since: Sep 10

The Deathstar

#470 Jun 15, 2013
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey dumbazz, this thread isn't about creation... oh wait, my bad, you can't read...I am so sorry...
No it is not... but that is your claim is it not? That the biblical creation story is true?

If so... he is injecting his opinion on your hypothesis. That is totally legitimate for rational discourse.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#471 Jun 16, 2013
It never ceases to amaze me how people can accept an ancient story with the absurdity a talking snake as being literally true, based on nothing more than belief that the Bible is the inerrant word of “God”, without the slightest bit of skepticism and then refuse to accept the fact that living things have evolved over time which is based on overwhelming empirical evidence from nearly all branches of science. They then turn around and criticize the absurd beliefs of other religions based solely on ancient stories from their “holy books”.

Jesus was being very perceptive when he is reported to have said,“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”
dollarsbill is a retard

Anonymous Proxy

#474 Jun 16, 2013
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey dumbazz, this thread isn't about creation... oh wait, my bad, you can't read...I am so sorry...
are you the new board monitor?
Punisher

Bronx, NY

#475 Jun 16, 2013
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, according to you, they aren't worth anything...
They haven't done anything to improve. Basically, it's still the same...
Then tell me this, how come they haven't?
"they'd likely"? did you actually read this? LMELAO...pure evo dogmatic speculation at its best...Heather Mills has a better leg to stand on...
How come we aren't seeing microevolution and watching her leg grow back?
What? I never said these hybrids weren't worth anything...as an experiment, as a carnival attraction they have some worth. I was, if you could read properly, saying that should they be an improvement in a natural setting, they'd most likely breed out of their disadvantages, ie; sterility in the males.

Which is perfectly legit position to take.

And dont talk to me or any other atheist, skeptic about dogmatism. Did you actually write that, you a dogmatic Xtian..?

Heather's not re-growing her limb, because thats how nature made humans, and most other species. For one thing, there's is no real inherent disadvantage to not having a limb. Personal disadvantages, for sure, but for the herd? None! Especially in this day and age where science and technology is such a great aid for those people.

Better Q is how come your God has never answered those prayers? While allegedly he has saved the many 95 yo terminally ill grandma's to stall their demise so to see their newest grandchild...that he seems to find a priority...but the Vets who comes home to a shattered self and family life to face a very long road to get it all back, those men and women he cant regrow a few limbs..? He wont answer the little girls prayers for her limbless Dad or Mom, but he will keep the old lady around a few more weeks...

Can ya spare a real miracle God, can ya?
Punisher

Bronx, NY

#476 Jun 16, 2013
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, according to you, they aren't worth anything...
They haven't done anything to improve. Basically, it's still the same...
Then tell me this, how come they haven't?
"they'd likely"? did you actually read this? LMELAO...pure evo dogmatic speculation at its best...Heather Mills has a better leg to stand on...
How come we aren't seeing microevolution and watching her leg grow back?
Whats really pathetic is that you choose to attack Me over answering a direct question to explain the dent you think your hybrid argument makes in Evo theory...!

What dent? Can you answer that Q? Will you have the courage to back up YOUR claim with more'n a bump-sticker worth of words?
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#477 Jun 16, 2013
Gillette wrote:
1. <quoted text>
You keep deflecting away form the example I present. What is it about that example that scares you?
Perhaps that Muslim man IS a self-exalter.(???)
OK, let's look around the Muslim world (what, 2 BILLION of them at present?), looking into every man and woman's heart, until we find ONE man, just ONE MAN who practices his religion of Islam with a full heart and total devotion to God (Allah, as he has been taught to know him by his culture, the culture that YOUR GOD put him in).
Now after that man dies, what possible PURPOSE or JUSTICE would there be in torturing him forever in the Christian God's hell?
<quoted text>
What do you consider "significant"? Coupla dozen? LOL!
Islam is the fastest growing religion in America. It's always been popular in the African American community, and now numbers of Caucasian Americans are converting.
Just this week, the news reported on a Caucasian-American woman,(born a Christian, who then converted to Islam) who died fighting in Syria for one side or another.
The wife of one of the Muslim Boston Marathon bombers is a Caucasian-American woman who converted to Islam during her college years.
The news had another such American woman explaining how she was a devout Christian "Campus Crusade for Christ" type in college who brought home the Holy Qu'ran to read it in order to have ammunition against the Muslim students she intended to convert to Jesus. Instead, she found the Qu'ran speaking deeply to her and eventually converted.
<quoted text>

2. Or their programming was very, very powerful. I grew up in the Catholic Church and can attest to the power of its belief system on young minds. Of course, back in Francis' day, there wasn't even an alternative like today. He could hardly have investigated Buddhism and converted, could he? LOL
way.
1. There's nothing about the 'example' that scares me. If any human being, has "lied" as a for instance, they have sinned against a holy God. That Muslim man, more likely than not, has told a lie at some point in time. Unless one lives a 'perfect' life, there's no way to enter into the presence of God. That's not a popular modern concept, because the modern 'relative' view is that a creator/god would align his view of morality with contemporary thinking. We think that God would overlook something like a 'lie', and if extended any type of judgment out, it would only be directed towards what modern contemporary thought is relatively immoral enough to deserve a judgment.

2. Of course there are 'many' converts to Islam, Buddhism,...atheism. That doesn't have anything to do with the point I'm making. The idea you've been attempting to present is that Muslims, specifically from Middle Eastern nations, are too far removed from Christianity to have been exposed to the Gospel. I'm countering that notion.

3. Saint Francis of Assisi was not a product of church programming.

"Francis' preaching to ordinary people was unusual since he had no license to do so.[1] In 1209 he composed a simple rule for his followers ("friars"),(the Regula primitiva or “Primitive Rule”) which came from verses in the Bible. The rule was “To follow the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ and to walk in his footsteps.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assis...

And to the best of my knowledge, Mother Theresa would have been fully aware of Buddhism.
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#478 Jun 16, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>

<quoted text>
Look at you, tip-toeing adroitly all around the issue of the FLAMES of Hell, the eternal flames which punish and torture (as flame is wont to do, right? They aren't SYMBOLIC flames, are they? Cf. your own Bible in numerous places.)
And if hell is separation and that separation means eternal flame or some other torture (psychological?). WHY is it that way?
Because your God CREATED it that way and very much WANTS it that way.
I didn't claim 'flames' in Hell were symbolic. I stated that any soul that is in Hell is subject to whatever encompasses that environment. If someone were cast into the Amazon jungle for instance, as some sort of punishment, they would be subject to the various dangers 'within'(poisonous snakes, etc.).

This all centers around your argument that humanity is not guilty before 'God'. We understand that corruption exists. We just don't normally view 'ourselves' as corrupt. I don't think Saddam Hussein considered himself corrupt, or, did not view corruption as 'evil'. He obviously did not see himself 'guilty' when brought to trial.
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#479 Jun 16, 2013
Gillette wrote:
1. <quoted text>
Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, 2005 US court case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Do...
Excerpt:
Tammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District, et al.(400 F. Supp. 2d 707, Docket no. 4cv2688) was the first direct challenge brought in the United States federal courts testing a public school district policy that required the teaching of intelligent design.[1]
In October 2004 the Dover Area School District changed its biology teaching curriculum to require that intelligent design be presented as an alternative to evolution theory, and that Of Pandas and People was to be used as a reference book.[2]
The plaintiffs successfully argued that intelligent design is a form of creationism, and that the school board policy violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
It was tried in a bench trial from September 26, 2005 to November 4, 2005, before Judge John E. Jones III, a conservative Republican appointed in 2002 by George W. Bush.[7]
On December 20, 2005, Jones issued his 139-page findings of fact and decision ruling that the Dover mandate requiring the statement to be read in class was unconstitutional.
The ruling concluded that intelligent design is not science, and permanently barred the board from "maintaining the ID Policy in any school within the Dover Area School District, from requiring teachers to denigrate or disparage the scientific theory of evolution, and from requiring teachers to refer to a religious, alternative theory known as ID."[8]

2. >>>GILLETTE AGAIN: And then there are the dozen or so other cases from the SUpreme Court on down to the district courts since the early 1970s that have ruled "creationism" a form of the Christian religion and forbade it's teaching in public school science classes. References upon request.
1. Wikipedia is not an unbiased source. There's an 'obvious' slant within this article. All this reveals is what the courtroom ultimately claimed. There's no evidence that proponents of ID plot to push Christianity into the public school. None. What exactly do they mean that plaintiffs successfully argued that intelligent design is a form of Creationism? Intelligent Design doesn't require religion. It's just presupposed that utilizing ID as an alternative is 'cloaked' proselytizing. Plaintiffs apparently at one time successfully proved to courtrooms that certain men of a different color should be hung.

2. Do these references upon request involve intelligent design?

By you suggesting that courtroom decision is absolute evidence places you in a position to reconsider your proposal that the couple in Southern California that were fined for holding a Bible study were guilty because they eventually won their court case. Do you remember 'that' conversation we had?

There's also the Freedom From Religion's court case against Texas high school cheerleaders, claiming that putting Bible scripture on signs at a football game is 'unconstitutional'. The court decided that, no, it is 'not' unconstitutional.

Are you now willing to acknowledge courtroom decision?
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#480 Jun 16, 2013
Gillette wrote:
1. <quoted text>
Glad to. When I was an active member of the Beliefnet.com boards in the late 90s-early 2000s, I was a regular with a poster named Joan (not her real name, as I notice she is still over there and very active as a mod, etc.).
Raised as a Christian, she had converted to Wicca and considered herself a white witch. She lived somewhere like in Kansas City at the time.
One evening she logged on to tell us that a local small-church pastor and his two sons had rung her bell, tried to get her to come to church, and when they found out she was a witch, they began to harass her in various ways. Doorbell being rung in the middle of the night. One of the two teenage sons standing in front of her house staring at her on many mornings as she left for work. Dead animals left on her porch or yard. The pastor-father trying to round up the neighbors to get her thrown out of the neighborhood -- after all, this was a "Christian community," right? And they didn't wasn't evil WITCHES among them, etc.
She was, of course a WRECK every day during the 3 weeks or so this took place. We all tried to help her, buck her up, give her suggestions, but she was alone, on the ground out there with these evil, nutjob followers of Jesus.
One day, as the father stood on her doorstep haranguing her, she had the police come to finally catch him in the act. Long story short, all three were arrested and convicted of harassment and other stuff. The teenage Christians got probation, the Christian pastor-father got several months in jail.
That put a stop to it once and for all.

2. And if I had the time and interest, I'm sure I could Google up a LOT of such instances against Wiccans, pagans, New Agers, gay and lesbians, etc. living in predominately Christian or Bible Belt communities.
It's hardly an isolated scenario.
1. Yeah, I suspected it may have been 'internet (soap opera)' discussion forum related. Well, this may very well have happened, and no doubt it's an awful thing to happen to someone.

I know a youth leader personally who woke up the next day seeing pornographic illustrations placed on his car with illustrations depicting Jesus, and probably other places in the front of his house. How do I know this? I know the young men who did this. This same man had a youth party once at another person's house. Some young men who had been drinking showed up and made a quite a nuisance of themselves. How do I know this? I was one of those young men.

Do we have to relegate this to the U.S.? In Europe, Christian churches are 'vandalized'. In other parts of the world, Christians are tortured and put to death. I know a woman personally who was tortured for her faith.

2. Probably no need. P. Smith may have already posted all 4 of them.
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#481 Jun 16, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>

Of course, in those religions God is not seen as a Middle eastern tribal chieftain writ large who tricks his first two creatures into "falling into sin," gets jealous and angry and will punish those who fail to love him in just the right way.
These other religions don't see the Divine as a legalistic judge and punisher who gives you one shot at a life (however badly setup you may be by poor intelligence or being born into a "bad" family or being created by your God in one of many NON-Christian cultures where the hump is just too big to get over, etc.)
Instead, these other spiritual paths tend to see God as a patient TEACHER who sets up his creation so that souls live MANY lives, learning a bit more life lessons each time, both in life and between lives, as they progress upward toward some sort of eventual mystical "union with God," in whatever way the various religions may envision it.
All of these paths envision the soul being responsible for its actions, using some form of the "Law of Karma," i.e. whatever a person sows, he/she later reaps. It isn't "sin" in the sense of personally offending a tribal God who requires perfect conduct and will punish the absence thereof.
Okay, now maybe we're getting somewhere?

Are you a Buddhist? Or, do you believe in reincarnation as an Hindu would?
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#482 Jun 16, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Welcome to Hinduism and Buddhism (in various ways), as well as to modern New Age or New Thought type religions.
Ah yes! New Age/New Thought religions aka "Cosmic Humanism" which has it's 'western' roots in "sinophobia".
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#483 Jun 16, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Wikipedia is not an unbiased source.
Okay, so I use it too sometimes.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#484 Jun 16, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, now maybe we're getting somewhere?
Are you a Buddhist? Or, do you believe in reincarnation as an Hindu would?
You're looking for ammunition. You're looking for the handle of the cast-iron frying pan so you can fling it at my head. Do you REALLY think I am so unclever as to oblige you? LOL!
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#485 Jun 16, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
Wikipedia is not an unbiased source. There's an 'obvious' slant to this article.
There's no evidence that proponents of ID plot to push Christianity into the public school. None.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/20/science/sci...

The decision itself:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._D... .

Quotes from the judge:

For the reasons that follow, we conclude that the religious nature of ID [intelligent design] would be readily apparent to an objective observer, adult or child.(page 24)

A significant aspect of the IDM [intelligent design movement] is that despite Defendants' protestations to the contrary, it describes ID as a religious argument. In that vein, the writings of leading ID proponents reveal that the designer postulated by their argument is the God of Christianity.(page 26)

The evidence at trial demonstrates that ID is nothing less than the progeny of creationism.(page 31)
The overwhelming evidence at trial established that ID is a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory.(page 43)

Throughout the trial and in various submissions to the Court, Defendants vigorously argue that the reading of the statement is not 'teaching' ID but instead is merely 'making students aware of it.' In fact, one consistency among the Dover School Board members' testimony, which was marked by selective memories and outright lies under oath, as will be discussed in more detail below, is that they did not think they needed to be knowledgeable about ID because it was not being taught to the students. We disagree..... an educator reading the disclaimer is engaged in teaching, even if it is colossally bad teaching..... Defendants' argument is a red herring because the Establishment Clause forbids not just 'teaching' religion, but any governmental action that endorses or has the primary purpose or effect of advancing religion.(footnote 7 on page 46)

After a searching review of the record and applicable caselaw, we find that while ID arguments may be true, a proposition on which the Court takes no position, ID is not science. We find that ID fails on three different levels, any one of which is sufficient to preclude a determination that ID is science. They are:(1) ID violates the centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking and permitting supernatural causation; (2) the argument of irreducible complexity, central to ID, employs the same flawed and illogical contrived dualism that doomed creation science in the 1980s; and (3) ID's negative attacks on evolution have been refuted by the scientific community.…It is additionally important to note that ID has failed to gain acceptance in the scientific community, it has not generated peer-reviewed publications, nor has it been the subject of testing and research. Expert testimony reveals that since the scientific revolution of the 16th and 17th centuries, science has been limited to the search for natural causes to explain natural phenomena.(page 64)[for "contrived dualism", see false dilemma.]

[T]he one textbook [Pandas] to which the Dover ID Policy directs students contains outdated concepts and flawed science, as recognized by even the defense experts in this case.(pages 86–87)

ID's backers have sought to avoid the scientific scrutiny which we have now determined that it cannot withstand by advocating that the controversy, but not ID itself, should be taught in science class. This tactic is at best disingenuous, and at worst a canard. The goal of the IDM is not to encourage critical thought, but to foment a revolution which would supplant evolutionary theory with ID.(page 89)

Accordingly, we find that the secular purposes claimed by the Board amount to a pretext for the Board's real purpose, which was to promote religion in the public school classroom, in violation of the Establishment Clause.(page 132)

“Vader2016!”

Since: Sep 10

The Deathstar

#486 Jun 16, 2013
Buffy The Atheist Slayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians beliefs are based on faith, not scientists.
Psalms 118:8 I
t is better to take refuge in Yahweh, than to put confidence in man.
Obviously your bible tells you to believe in it... Hitler asked his people to believe in him too. That obviously does not make something true or right.

Also, science is the reason you are posting on the internet, hypocrite.
Job

Santa Clara, CA

#487 Jun 17, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
You're looking for ammunition. You're looking for the handle of the cast-iron frying pan so you can fling it at my head. Do you REALLY think I am so unclever as to oblige you? LOL!
Hardly.....

This is nothing new. You only answer about an 1/8 of the questions I've asked. You have no problem demanding answers though. However, your questions don't really seem to be questions so much as statements. You don't really ask questions to find out answers. They tend to be just another way of making a statement (sort of like Larry King does).

I don't really ask questions to you 'expecting' an answer. And the question was really rhetorical anyway. More along the lines of, in similar fashion to what you tend to do, "making a statement", hinting at the irony of using belief systems that you only 'partially' believe. Basically, patronizing Buddhism, Hinduism, and any religion that doesn't 'offend' you.

I 'know' that you are not a Buddhist or a Hindu. And I don't think you are a practicing New Ager. The 'New Age Thought' would probably be more appropriate. Buddhism and Hinduism is only acceptable when it conforms to the modern (aka 'western colonial') mindset. Remove the "new age", and the "new age thought", then Buddhism and Hinduism become too primitive.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque, NM

#488 Jun 17, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
Hardly.....
This is nothing new. You only answer about an 1/8 of the questions I've asked. You have no problem demanding answers though. However, your questions don't really seem to be questions so much as statements. You don't really ask questions to find out answers. They tend to be just another way of making a statement (sort of like Larry King does).
I don't really ask questions to you 'expecting' an answer. And the question was really rhetorical anyway. More along the lines of, in similar fashion to what you tend to do, "making a statement", hinting at the irony of using belief systems that you only 'partially' believe. Basically, patronizing Buddhism, Hinduism, and any religion that doesn't 'offend' you.
I 'know' that you are not a Buddhist or a Hindu. And I don't think you are a practicing New Ager. The 'New Age Thought' would probably be more appropriate. Buddhism and Hinduism is only acceptable when it conforms to the modern (aka 'western colonial') mindset. Remove the "new age", and the "new age thought", then Buddhism and Hinduism become too primitive.
The skull of an adult male Musk Ox is three inches thick.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque, NM

#489 Jun 17, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
You're looking for ammunition. You're looking for the handle of the cast-iron frying pan so you can fling it at my head. Do you REALLY think I am so unclever as to oblige you? LOL!
I spent the weekend at the church summer fiesta selling tickets and wristbands so the kids could play on the inflatable diversions. The water slides were indeed popular because it peaked at ninety-seven degrees Saturday and one hundred and two yesterday. It will be a sad day when a nine year old can scam me out of a wristband.
Heathen bytch-fest

Houston, TX

#490 Jun 17, 2013
10uhsee wrote:
<quoted text>
what?
the universe

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