Do Catholics Worship the Mother Mary?
Christian

United States

#82 Feb 6, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>The problem is this; he can’t just recite anti-Catholic literature. He has to use Catholic sources./
I can recite documented literature from Catholic sources that proves that they DO deify Mary.
CC (Catechism) 966: "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as QUEEN over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.'[LG 59; cf. Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus (1950): DS 3903; cf. Rev 19:16.] The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death." [Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.]
Here she is declared to be free from all orginal sin (sinless) and to have been taken to heaven, body and soul, and is being declared as the deliverer of souls.
CC 969: "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." [LG 62.]
Here she is made responsible for eternal salvation. And is being made virtual co-Redeemer with her son. The word "mediatrix" is used, which means a female mediator, but the Bible says there is only one Mediator:
1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (KJV)
One Savior:
Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.(KJV)
Mary is named as an advocate and helper by the Catholic Church. But Jesus is the Advocate and helper, Mary is not given these titles in the Bible:
I Jn 2:1
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (KJV)
Heb 13:6 (this is quoted from Psm 118:6 in the O.T.)6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.(KJV)
CC 964: This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation ....
Working with right along side Christ in salvation?
CC 2677: Because she gives us Jesus, her son, Mary is Mother of God and our mother; we can entrust all our cares and petitions to her: she prays for us as she prayed for herself:'Let it be to me according to your word. By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the 'Mother of Mercy,' the All-Holy One.
Praying to her and asking her to pray for us? Intrusting all your cares and petitions (prayer is a petition)to her? We are only to pray to God and if we pray to anyone or thing else it is idol worship, just like the definition says. ANd she is made the mother of "MERCY" and "all-holy one" here! She is being made equal with God!
Christian

United States

#83 Feb 6, 2013
I can recite documented literature from Catholic sources that proves that they DO deify Mary.

CC (Catechism) 966: "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as QUEEN over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.'[LG 59; cf. Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus (1950): DS 3903; cf. Rev 19:16.] The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death." [Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.]

Here she is declared to be free from all orginal sin (sinless) and to have been taken to heaven, body and soul, and is being declared as the deliverer of souls.

CC 969: "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." [LG 62.]

Here she is made responsible for eternal salvation. And is being made virtual co-Redeemer with her son. The word "mediatrix" is used, which means a female mediator, but the Bible says there is only one Mediator:

1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (KJV)

One Savior:

Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.(KJV)

Mary is named as an advocate and helper by the Catholic Church. But Jesus is the Advocate and helper, Mary is not given these titles in the Bible:

I Jn 2:1
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (KJV)

Heb 13:6 (this is quoted from Psm 118:6 in the O.T.)6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.(KJV)

CC 964: This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation ....

Working with right along side Christ in salvation?

CC 2677: Because she gives us Jesus, her son, Mary is Mother of God and our mother; we can entrust all our cares and petitions to her: she prays for us as she prayed for herself:'Let it be to me according to your word. By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the 'Mother of Mercy,' the All-Holy One.

Praying to her and asking her to pray for us? Intrusting all your cares and petitions (prayer is a petition)to her? We are only to pray to God and if we pray to anyone or thing else it is idol worship, just like the definition says. ANd she is made the mother of "MERCY" and "all-holy one" here! She is being made equal with God!
Christian

United States

#84 Feb 6, 2013
From Webster's Dictionary:

WORSHIP: n. A term of ironical respect. Chiefly and eminently, the act of paying divine honors to the Supreme Being; or the reverence and homage paid to him in religious exercises, consisting in adoration, confession, prayer, thanksgiving and the like. The worship of God is an eminent part of religion. Prayer is a chief part of religious worship.
The homage paid to idols or false gods by pagans; as the worship or Isis.
WORSHIP: v.t.
1. To adore; to pay divine honors to; to reverence with supreme respect and veneration.
Thou shalt worship no other God. Exodus 34.
2. To respect; to honor; to treat with civil reverence.
Nor worshiped with a waxen epitaph.
3. To honor with extravagant love and extreme submission; as a lover.
With bended knees I daily worship her.
WORSHIP: v.i.
1. To perform acts of adoration.
2. To perform religious service.
WORSHIPING: ppr. Adoring; paying divine honors to; treating with supreme reverence; treating with extreme submission.
WORSHIPER: n. One who worships; one who pays divine honors to any being; one who adores.
WORSHIPED: pp. Adored; treated with divine honors; treated with civil respect.

Pray and other froms of religious service or ceromony are worship.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#85 Feb 6, 2013
Christian wrote:
I can recite documented literature from Catholic sources that proves that they DO deify Mary.
CC (Catechism) 966: "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as QUEEN over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.'[LG 59; cf. Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus (1950): DS 3903; cf. Rev 19:16.] The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death." [Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.]
Here she is declared to be free from all orginal sin (sinless) and to have been taken to heaven, body and soul, and is being declared as the deliverer of souls.
CC 969: "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." [LG 62.]
Here she is made responsible for eternal salvation. And is being made virtual co-Redeemer with her son. The word "mediatrix" is used, which means a female mediator, but the Bible says there is only one Mediator:
1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (KJV)
One Savior:
Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.(KJV)
Mary is named as an advocate and helper by the Catholic Church. But Jesus is the Advocate and helper, Mary is not given these titles in the Bible:
I Jn 2:1
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (KJV)
Heb 13:6 (this is quoted from Psm 118:6 in the O.T.)6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.(KJV)
CC 964: This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation ....
Working with right along side Christ in salvation?
CC 2677: Because she gives us Jesus, her son, Mary is Mother of God and our mother; we can entrust all our cares and petitions to her: she prays for us as she prayed for herself:'Let it be to me according to your word. By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the 'Mother of Mercy,' the All-Holy One.
Praying to her and asking her to pray for us? Intrusting all your cares and petitions (prayer is a petition)to her? We are only to pray to God and if we pray to anyone or thing else it is idol worship, just like the definition says. ANd she is made the mother of "MERCY" and "all-holy one" here! She is being made equal with God!
You've got your religion and I've got mine.

Queen of Peace, pray for us.
Christian

United States

#86 Feb 6, 2013
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
You've got your religion and I've got mine.
Queen of Peace, pray for us.
You are free to choose but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#87 Feb 6, 2013
Christian wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right, Nuttie. The Bible does say something about your "gueen of heaven" (goddess).
17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
Some other goofball made the same error. That passage refers to the Hebrew goddess Asherah.
Christian

United States

#88 Feb 6, 2013
"Queen of Peace", Jesus is the "Prince of Peace", another way she is being compared and made equal to her Son.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#89 Feb 6, 2013
Christian wrote:
<quoted text>
I can recite documented literature from Catholic sources that proves that they DO deify Mary.
CC (Catechism) 966: "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as QUEEN over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.'[LG 59; cf. Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus (1950): DS 3903; cf. Rev 19:16.] The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death." [Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.]
Here she is declared to be free from all orginal sin (sinless) and to have been taken to heaven, body and soul, and is being declared as the deliverer of souls.
CC 969: "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." [LG 62.]
Here she is made responsible for eternal salvation. And is being made virtual co-Redeemer with her son. The word "mediatrix" is used, which means a female mediator, but the Bible says there is only one Mediator:
1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (KJV)
One Savior:
Acts 4:10-12
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.(KJV)
Mary is named as an advocate and helper by the Catholic Church. But Jesus is the Advocate and helper, Mary is not given these titles in the Bible:
I Jn 2:1
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (KJV)
Heb 13:6 (this is quoted from Psm 118:6 in the O.T.)6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.(KJV)
CC 964: This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation ....
Working with right along side Christ in salvation?
CC 2677: Because she gives us Jesus, her son, Mary is Mother of God and our mother; we can entrust all our cares and petitions to her: she prays for us as she prayed for herself:'Let it be to me according to your word. By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the 'Mother of Mercy,' the All-Holy One.
Jesus is our mediator to God; the Virgin Mary is our mediator to Jesus.
She has never been and will never be made equal to God or Jesus either.

Have you ever really read the Hail Mary prayer...at all?
Hail Mary full of grace
the Lord is with thee
Blessed are thou and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#90 Feb 6, 2013
Christian wrote:
"Queen of Peace", Jesus is the "Prince of Peace", another way she is being compared and made equal to her Son.
Jesus is King of Kings and thus the Virgin Mary is Queen of heaven.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#91 Feb 6, 2013
Christian wrote:
<quoted text>
You are free to choose but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.
Exactly.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#92 Feb 6, 2013
A few days ago I visited a Protestant blog that posts various apologetics entries arguing for (Reformed) Protestantism. I punched in a comment or two, and it wasn’t long before I was blasted by the owner and rudely insulted as “not being able to understand English.”

Another commenter at that site, who I have known for his anti-Catholic virulence, also began making comments toward me, the same guy who told my friend David–a recent Catholic convert from Reformed Protestantism–that Jesus would condemn David to hell at his judgment.

Where does this disdain come from?

Catholics believe that Protestants are Christians. We believe they can be saved, have the Holy Spirit and His gifts, and are brothers and sisters in Christ, albeit separated due to the divisions between us.

But many Protestants do not think likewise about Catholics. My friend Brent Stubbs made a blog post recently discussing three forms that anti-Catholicism takes.(Here I’m speaking of the genetic variant, though I’ll nuance it a bit.)

Focusing on Reformed Protestantism specifically–this is John Calvin’s brain-child–there is among Calvinists a strong disdain for the Catholic Church, and some adherents to this flavor of Protestantism believe all practicing Catholics are going to hell. There are three main causes for this belief:
continued:

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#93 Feb 6, 2013
They believe the Church of Rome teaches gravely evil and false things
Further, their beliefs entail that Romanists are predestined to damnation, and
They have a visceral revulsion for the Church–her saints, her relics, her liturgy, her earthiness.

To their credit, they have this hatred for the Catholic Church (or “Romanism,” as you will hear) because they believe it is leading people away from Jesus and the Gospel. And good for them! If I believed that some church or denomination was doing that, I would oppose it too–perhaps not using their same vitriol and methods–but I would not want people to follow those beliefs.

The vitriol stems largely from the second point: Under Reformed Protestantism, God has predestined the elect to salvation and the reprobate to damnation. Being a faithful Catholic therefore means, practically by definition, that you are a reprobate. And here’s the kicker: if you are one of the reprobate, many of the passages from the Gospel on forgiving your brother and helping him do not apply (at least as they interpret them). Once you cross the Tiber, you are anathema and damned.

The third point is subjective and its degree varies with every person. Realize that Calvin’s version of Protestantism led to the desecration of Catholic churches, the smashing of beautiful statues, and the whitewashing of ancient, sacred paintings and images. Given this legacy, is it any wonder that many Calvinists today have a gut reaction against the Catholic Church, with her incense and bells and stained glass and statuary?(Recall this scene from the Matrix–”it’s the smell!”)
continued:

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#94 Feb 6, 2013
Christian wrote:
"Queen of Peace", Jesus is the "Prince of Peace", another way she is being compared and made equal to her Son.
The Bible doesn't say Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace.
Christian

United States

#95 Feb 6, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus is our mediator to God; the Virgin Mary is our mediator to Jesus.
She has never been and will never be made equal to God or Jesus either.
Have you ever really read the Hail Mary prayer...at all?
Hail Mary full of grace
the Lord is with thee
Blessed are thou and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Jesus the only one, the only mediator. Period. And the hail mary prayer is not in the Bible, that has been made up by your false teachers. And you should also look up the oringin of rosery beads and the use of them for prayer to false gods. It originated with buddaism, and it is also nowhere to be found in the word of God.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#96 Feb 6, 2013
The Consequences of Their Beliefs

Unsurprisingly then, when a Catholic is engaging in dialogue with (this kind of) Reformed Protestant, there is no parity in the discussion. One side thinks the other is a Christian who is doing his best to follow Jesus, and the other side thinks he is talking to a wicked and damned creature.

A blindness thus arises that clouds their hearts and minds, making it incredibly difficult for them to see the Catholic Church for what she truly is, and even to objectively weigh the arguments for and against her. This is not all Protestants, but many. It becomes a case where the disdain and revulsion takes on a life of its own, and no acts of love or courage or faithfulness on the part of Catholics can overcome it. Only God can.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#97 Feb 6, 2013
continued:
The Remedy

Only God can move hearts. We must pray for our Protestant brothers and sisters, and thankfully, most do not hate the Catholic Church (or Catholics). More and more, Protestants are able to access accurate information on the Church and judge for themselves whether she is the anti-Christ that they were taught growing up. But there is still a sizable contingent of Protestants whose disgust with the Church seems implacable. They need our prayers and, if possible, our reasoned, charitable dialogue.

Let us continue to pray that Christ will unite us in the fullness of the truth!
www.devinrose.heroicvirtuecreations.com/blog/...

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#98 Feb 6, 2013
Christian wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus the only one, the only mediator. Period. And the hail mary prayer is not in the Bible, that has been made up by your false teachers. And you should also look up the oringin of rosery beads and the use of them for prayer to false gods. It originated with buddaism, and it is also nowhere to be found in the word of God.
The Hail Mary is completely Biblical!
Rosary beads are beautiful and helps give a certain holiness to praying the Rosary.

Feel free to research the Hail Mary prayer yourself. It is completely Biblical.
Christian

United States

#99 Feb 6, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
A few days ago I visited a Protestant blog that posts various apologetics entries arguing for (Reformed) Protestantism. I punched in a comment or two, and it wasn’t long before I was blasted by the owner and rudely insulted as “not being able to understand English.”
Another commenter at that site, who I have known for his anti-Catholic virulence, also began making comments toward me, the same guy who told my friend David–a recent Catholic convert from Reformed Protestantism–that Jesus would condemn David to hell at his judgment.
Where does this disdain come from?
Catholics believe that Protestants are Christians. We believe they can be saved, have the Holy Spirit and His gifts, and are brothers and sisters in Christ, albeit separated due to the divisions between us.
But many Protestants do not think likewise about Catholics. My friend Brent Stubbs made a blog post recently discussing three forms that anti-Catholicism takes.(Here I’m speaking of the genetic variant, though I’ll nuance it a bit.)
Focusing on Reformed Protestantism specifically–this is John Calvin’s brain-child–there is among Calvinists a strong disdain for the Catholic Church, and some adherents to this flavor of Protestantism believe all practicing Catholics are going to hell. There are three main causes for this belief:
continued:
Because you are worshipping false gods and goddess and partaking in idol worship, which the Bible so strongly admonishes. I believe that many of the people just confused and are being mislead by their teachers. And I don't believe it is right to say that anyone is going to hell, that is judging, people need to learn the meaning of that word. Only God can judge someone to hell. But I will say that He is not happy with the practices taking place, as he unmistakenly makes clear in His Word.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#100 Feb 6, 2013
Christian wrote:
"Queen of Peace", Jesus is the "Prince of Peace", another way she is being compared and made equal to her Son.
It is a core Catholic belief that the Lord Jesus Christ will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. Any argument that Catholics 'make Mary equal to her Son' is an argument from ignorance.

It is a core fundie belief that arguments from ignorance are the best arguments.
Christian

United States

#101 Feb 6, 2013
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible doesn't say Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6
King James Version (KJV)

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

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