What can be done to fix all the probl...

What can be done to fix all the problems in Christianity?

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Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#1 May 23, 2013
We are supposed to be lead by the same Holy Spirit, yet there is so much divison out there. With 30-40,000 denominations and all the differences and bickering among believers, what do you think can be done at this point to attempt to fix all the issues in Christianity today to make it better?

I think people need to start reading the bible in better context to get the true meanings of certain verses before that verse is used to prove a point.

What about you, what else can be done to try to make it better?

Atheist opinions are welcomed as well, please try not to get vulgar or derail the thread. This can actually be a civilized discussion.
Buffy The Atheist Slayer

United States

#2 May 23, 2013
Actually following the bible and stop picking and choosing.
Ant

Alpharetta, GA

#3 May 23, 2013
Buffy The Atheist Slayer wrote:
Actually following the bible and stop picking and choosing.
Everyone picks and chooses, even the people that claim to follow everything.
Punisher

Brentwood, NY

#4 May 23, 2013
Ant wrote:
We are supposed to be lead by the same Holy Spirit, yet there is so much divison out there. With 30-40,000 denominations and all the differences and bickering among believers, what do you think can be done at this point to attempt to fix all the issues in Christianity today to make it better?
I think people need to start reading the bible in better context to get the true meanings of certain verses before that verse is used to prove a point.
What about you, what else can be done to try to make it better?
Atheist opinions are welcomed as well, please try not to get vulgar or derail the thread. This can actually be a civilized discussion.
one of the early printers (name escapes me right now) of the English Bible said, and I paraphrase, "Certainly reading the Bible is good, but reading it too much is not good." His belief was that people would become polarized by too much reading of the scripture, and he was 100% right. There already was severe polarization among Xtians prior to the Bible being available in the vernaculars and to everyone if they wanted one - so his prescience is spot on, and hits at the heart of the problems. The main one being that Believers want to OWN the Bible as their own and the meanings therein.

Think of a movie that might have a real story line (unlike most of the dreck being produced lately) and subtlety to the story telling. Several people can see it and come away with different POV's - and in a discussion hotly argue over the "true" meaning of the movies' message. If a person is truly moved by the movie, they immediately OWN it as their own, and as such will not care for what others say about it. Even IF they like it too, if the message is different they will argue. Because we Humans have to OWN our beliefs and ideas about stories we really, really like. Same with music, art, etc...all the things that hit us on a deep emotional and spiritual level.

Now belief in a God and all that entails is way more important to people than a movie - so the debate will ratchet up several levels to where complete disagreement results and way too often lines are drawn and combat ensues. Even if they agree on some core beliefs, if too much is in disagreement than there's no common ground at all.

IMO, and that of the printer I mentioned, is that Believers, in this case Xtians, spend too much energy, time and emotional capital on trying to OWN the Bible and what it means. Too much time spent reading it (those who actually do and not pretend to) and not really digesting it, not really contemplating on the myriad messages and POV's - many contradictory - to much time trying to be the ONE who gets-it all in one fell swoop - and in turn trying to Tell others what it all means and that they are the only ones who knows what it means.

Another analogy. A sports team. Each player has a different reason for playing, for their passion towards the game, etc - but all that should matter to each player is that they all play well when its time to play. No matter that Jim is there to get out of poverty, or that Paul is there for the physical discipline, or that Joe is there because he's simply naturally gifted...what matters is that all play well each time and leave it on the field/court. They dont (or shouldn't) argue over who has the best reason, or the only real reason for being there - or tell each other that they don't understand the game, or love it properly, etc...

Belief in these Gods is a purely personal thing, and as such should not be intruded upon by others trying to OWN what it all means and should mean.

But that's what happens. The zig'rs want everyone to zig, while the zag'rs want everyone to zag. And forbid if someone wants to zig and zag.

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe

#5 May 23, 2013
Ant wrote:
We are supposed to be lead by the same Holy Spirit, yet there is so much divison out there. With 30-40,000 denominations and all the differences and bickering among believers, what do you think can be done at this point to attempt to fix all the issues in Christianity today to make it better?
I think people need to start reading the bible in better context to get the true meanings of certain verses before that verse is used to prove a point.
What about you, what else can be done to try to make it better?
Atheist opinions are welcomed as well, please try not to get vulgar or derail the thread. This can actually be a civilized discussion.
Reading from the book of lies will not solve anything. As it contains spiritual-less inane gibberish, that will never lead anyone to God.

God is a SPIRITUAL Deity, so you cannot really understand anything about him by reading ANY book with the carnal mind. And the lies about God in the book of lies, only leads people further astray from God.

The bottom line is that you Christians haven't a clue, and never will know God or anything truly spiritual, no matter what you do.

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#6 May 23, 2013
Seentheotherside wrote:
<quoted text>
Reading from the book of lies will not solve anything. As it contains spiritual-less inane gibberish, that will never lead anyone to God.
God is a SPIRITUAL Deity, so you cannot really understand anything about him by reading ANY book with the carnal mind. And the lies about God in the book of lies, only leads people further astray from God.
The bottom line is that you Christians haven't a clue, and never will know God or anything truly spiritual, no matter what you do.
Book of lies, VERBOSE!

lol

*WEDGIE*
Punisher

Brentwood, NY

#7 May 23, 2013
Ant wrote:
We are supposed to be lead by the same Holy Spirit, yet there is so much divison out there. With 30-40,000 denominations and all the differences and bickering among believers, what do you think can be done at this point to attempt to fix all the issues in Christianity today to make it better?

I think people need to start reading the bible in better context to get the true meanings of certain verses before that verse is used to prove a point.

What about you, what else can be done to try to make it better?
Atheist opinions are welcomed as well, please try not to get vulgar or derail the thread. This can actually be a civilized discussion.
You speak of context. For me, a history buff that's a very important point. What is context? What does it mean to YOU, Ant? What do you mean by; "I think people need to start reading the bible in better context to get the true meanings..."

To me, when I think of context of a story first told then written several 1000 years ago (and the two not at the same time) it means, what were the circumstances of the day the story was told? How does that impact the meaning then and how does it (and it should) impact the meaning now...?

That sort of thinking and analysis was what started me on the road to disbelief and eventual atheism. It lead me to look outside of the Religion, and its doctrines and tracts to better understand them. The Bible is certainly a historical artifact, but its not a history book. Not as we define a true history book. Beowulf is a historical artifact, but not a history book, even though we can glean some real historical facts from it.

So to look at what Jesus was doing and saying WHEN he was doing and saying it - is incredibly important to me now. What were people and conditions like in 1st century Palestine? What were the cultural and social memes, across the cultures intermingling in the Biblical times and lands...?

Too often Xtians, Americans mostly, forget, or never really knew, what an active center of commerce and travel, and general movement were the settings of Jesus and his contemporaries. Trade routes were crossing those lands and as such those locales were heavily influenced by the mix of people, beliefs, languages, modes of dress and eating, how each would tell a joke, or insult others.

American Xtians IMO, and experience have some notion that Jesus was living and acting in a very small and tight community, where beliefs were few, and where "preachers" were even fewer. almost like he lived in a gated community and had very little exposure to anything but a strict JEwish upbringing, all under the nasty Romans.(something we dont actually know at all, how strict was his upbringing under Mary and Joseph?, Sure they did the rituals made the treks to here and there, but in the house, amongst each other, how strict were they? No one knows.)


So when we look at what Jesus was saying and how - thru the centuries of translations and interpretations - we're faced with complex problems. What did he truly mean when he actually said, XYZ...? Did it mean what we're told it meant in say, 1585? Or was it 1685, 1785...1995...?

A lot of debate surrounds the whole idea of hell and did Jesus really mean Hell as we now define it? The oft quoted word/term sheol...when he used it...its easy for me to conclude that it in no way meant The HELL we now all fantasize it means. Because once I looked (as best as we can) at the "context" of the time he allegedly spoke of it in his teachings - the people listening, mostly poor and down trodden Jews and a few stray others - they in no way were imagining what the average American Xtian does now. No way! Just no way.

So to bring up the idea of context, begs the question, "Who's context?" 2013 in middle America of a diverse Xtian community? Or in 1st century Palestine, surrounded by poor, marginalized, Jews and other "outcasts" dissatisfied with the status quo...?
Punisher

Brentwood, NY

#9 May 23, 2013
oops, double post...
Punisher

Brentwood, NY

#10 May 23, 2013
Ant wrote:
<quoted text>
Everyone picks and chooses, even the people that claim to follow everything.
Key word; "claim". You win that point, game, set, match.
little lamb

Australia

#11 May 23, 2013
Return of Christ...is going to fix all the problems..

He says its when he returns he " GATHERS' us TOGETHER..
little lamb

Australia

#12 May 23, 2013
The problem in Christianity , is that the weeds have been gathered first into piles to be burned..

.Most Christians have been scattered due to the shepherds of the flock

" Woe to the shepherds of the flock, who have scattered my sheep..'

That's is why Christians have been burned at the stake, falsely accused and as scripture states ..

The BLOOD of the saints is on the skirt of Babylon the Great...false religion

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#13 May 23, 2013
Ant wrote:
Atheist opinions are welcomed as well,
You're begging to be deceived.

Psalm 1:1 (NKJV)
1 Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,

John from Texas

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

Schaumburg, IL

#14 May 23, 2013
I think the problem is the literal interpretation of the bible. There will always be subjective opinions of what the bible means.
People without an open mind don't help at all.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#15 May 23, 2013
John from Texas wrote:
I think the problem is the literal interpretation of the bible. There will always be subjective opinions of what the bible means.
People without an open mind don't help at all.
Psalm 1:1 (NKJV)
1 Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,

John from Texas

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

Schaumburg, IL

#16 May 23, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Psalm 1:1 (NKJV)
1 Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Oh and I forgot to include Dollarsbill as part of the problem with Christianity.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#17 May 23, 2013
John from Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh and I forgot to include Dollarsbill as part of the problem with Christianity.
Your BIG problem is God.

Hebrews 10:31 (NKJV)
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#18 May 23, 2013
Punisher wrote:
oops, double post...
Good to know...was breezing thru and thought, man, is he on a roll tonight!
Punisher

Brooklyn, NY

#19 May 24, 2013
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
Good to know...was breezing thru and thought, man, is he on a roll tonight!
Hopefully it was a kaiser roll.
Punisher

Brooklyn, NY

#20 May 24, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
<quoted text>
Your BIG problem is God.
.
Not at all. Should one exist, I would have no problems, unless of course he relies on jerks like you. Which we all can be certain not even YOUR God relies on you...
Punisher

Brooklyn, NY

#21 May 24, 2013
little lamb wrote:
The problem in Christianity , is that the weeds have been gathered first into piles to be burned..

.Most Christians have been scattered due to the shepherds of the flock

" Woe to the shepherds of the flock, who have scattered my sheep..'
That's is why Christians have been burned at the stake, falsely accused and as scripture states ..

The BLOOD of the saints is on the skirt of Babylon the Great...false religion
Stop mixing metaphors - weeds, flocks, shepherds, blood, skirts...stop it. Just stop it!

Now explain WTF your first sentence means! You and so many others do this all the time. Rattle off what you think is deep and enlightened - when in reality it makes no sense when analyzed.

Paraphrased; "The weeds are gathered to be burned." In and of itself that means nothing, and makes no sense, and does nothing to 1. answer the question and 2. explains even less...

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