Another question from an agnostic abo...
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Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#22 Jun 30, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
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Why it matters is that G-d when to those "chosen" to reveal his will to the world
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Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
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Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
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and to those to whom the promises were made first. After the rejection, they were rejected.
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1Sa 2:30 Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.
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As to why certain Christians glorify Jews, I suppose they will say they are blessing Israel to receive a promise.
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Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
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It also may be a way in their minds to make up for all the anti-semitism throughout the ages.
Well Sir or Ma'am, the New Testament says that the kingdom shall be taken from the Jews (Matt. 21:43.) If they deny that Jesus is the Messiah, they are antichrists and not worthy of any glorification (1 John 2:22-23.) There is a new Israel according to the New testament (Gal. 3:16-29.)

No one comes to the Father but through Jesus. So if they deny Jesus they deny the Father.

Peace.
nunnies

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#23 Jun 30, 2014
Old GT wrote:
<quoted text>Israel was God's plan to save all the world, Genesis 12:3.
Hidden until preached by Peter with Holy Spirit in Acts 2.
Many Christians don't understand that was coming of the kingdom with power,
The kingdom is spiritual, 1 Peter 2:4-10.
there are many antiChrists, as you can see.
Well, I did not read your citations for lack of time, but the issue is really quite simple. If Paul says in Romans 9:6, "...For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel," this tells us that there is a NEW "Israel" and that all Jews are not a part of that new Israel.

Peace.
nunnies
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#24 Jun 30, 2014
QUITTNER on June 30 2014 wrote:
<quoted text>
..... I haven't seen any proof that God ever chose anyone. Jesus did not, and does not fit the Jewish definition of the word "Messiah". Many thought he would be the expected Messiah but he wasn't. as defined in the Jews' Hebrew Scriptures. The traditions were/are based on speculations and hopes.
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Yeshua certainly chose people, he chose his disciples and called them the light of the world. He commissioned them to take the gospel to the world.
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As to the definition of Messiah, Yeshua certainly fit the description. Messiah means "annointed one" which he was with the Holy Spirit and G-d's voice from heaven. This was confirmed by the miracles he did.
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As to the scriptures themselves, he did fit the description, and additionally since the appointed time is past (so says Sanhedrin tractate) there is no other candidate that could be the Messiah.
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If you have a biblical or traditional reference which disqualifies Yeshua, we can discuss it. So far you haven't produced anything but opinion.
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<quoted text>
Traditions were based upon speculations/hopes
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I'm sure you didn't get this from a traditional Jew as he would have told you it was passed down by oral tradition from Moses.
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It seems to me you don't know much about Judaism.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#25 Jun 30, 2014
nunnies wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I did not read your citations for lack of time, but the issue is really quite simple. If Paul says in Romans 9:6, "...For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel," this tells us that there is a NEW "Israel" and that all Jews are not a part of that new Israel.
Peace.
nunnies
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That is a non-sequitur. We are told Gentiles are grafted into Israel. What you are talking about is replacement theology, which is not a biblical doctrine. Additionally I don't believe you will find the term "New Israel" in any bible.
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What kind of agnostic makes religious statements like you do? Are you really an agnostic?

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#26 Jun 30, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
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That is a non-sequitur. We are told Gentiles are grafted into Israel. What you are talking about is replacement theology, which is not a biblical doctrine. Additionally I don't believe you will find the term "New Israel" in any bible.
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What kind of agnostic makes religious statements like you do? Are you really an agnostic?
Peace,

It is you who are saying things that go against the Bible.

When I first started talking on Topix I was an agnostic but as I said on another thread I'm not an agnostic anymore; I am neither a Christian nor a Jew nor a Muslim. I have adopted a religion but I will not name it.

Paul's saying that the Gentiles were grafted into Israel does not change Romans 9:6. Romans 9:6 says, "...For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel." This plainly tells us that there is a new "Israel" AS GALATIANS 3:16, 29 SAYS.

Peace & Blessings to you.
nunnies
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#27 Jun 30, 2014
nunnies wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Sir or Ma'am, the New Testament says that the kingdom shall be taken from the Jews (Matt. 21:43.) If they deny that Jesus is the Messiah, they are antichrists and not worthy of any glorification (1 John 2:22-23.) There is a new Israel according to the New testament (Gal. 3:16-29.)
No one comes to the Father but through Jesus. So if they deny Jesus they deny the Father.
Peace.
nunnies
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I am not arguing that one can lose a status, you responded to my post telling you so. The verse you reference has nothing to do with if Israel is rejected, it only applies to the Jews who rejected the Messiah.( For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:) You have to read the bible in context, G-d can't say on one hand they are rejected and in another place call them a royal priesthood and a holy nation (1Pe 2:9) and that they would sit on thrones (Mat_19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.) This is inconsistent and shows a lack of understand the entire scripture. There is only one tree (the olive) one faith, one Lord, one baptism.
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<quoted text> There is a new Israel according to the New testament (Gal. 3:16-29.)
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There is no reference in this passage to a "new Israel". It is talking about the promised seed, which is Messiah, and the covenant of faith. Anyone can enter this covenant just as strangers could enter the Mosaic covenant. Israel didn't become new under Moses, and it hasn't become new under Yeshua.
.
<quoted text>
No one comes to the Father but through Jesus. So if they deny Jesus they deny the Father.
.
I agree, but this makes them no more of an anti-Christ than an agnostic. We have to be born again, not acknowledge a set of beliefs.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#28 Jun 30, 2014
nunnies wrote:
<quoted text>
Peace,
It is you who are saying things that go against the Bible.
When I first started talking on Topix I was an agnostic but as I said on another thread I'm not an agnostic anymore; I am neither a Christian nor a Jew nor a Muslim. I have adopted a religion but I will not name it.
Paul's saying that the Gentiles were grafted into Israel does not change Romans 9:6. Romans 9:6 says, "...For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel." This plainly tells us that there is a new "Israel" AS GALATIANS 3:16, 29 SAYS.
Peace & Blessings to you.
nunnies
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Do you know what a Non sequitur is?
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If it were plain, it would have plainly told us in multiple places. What ever religion you have adopted, it isn't Christianity. As such it is not you place or concern to try to teach Christian doctrine as you are a novice. If Gal 3:16-29 taught a new Israel it would have used the term new or at least given us a hint of something new. Additionally, Christianity doesn't make a doctrine from one verse as this is unwise and doesn't fulfil the verses: Mat_18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
2Co_13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
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We can see here that this doctrine is mentioned 2 times in the NT and many times in the TNK. G-d doesn't want us ignorant, he repeats himself just like I have to to my children.(And my wife to me)
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Additionally how can we be grafted into Israel if Israel is new? There would be no need for a graft. We could be a distinct tree.
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I suggest you spend your time studying your own religion instead of making assertions about something you know little about. That way hopefully you will know something you can share with others.
QUITTNER on July 1 2014

Toronto, Canada

#29 Jul 1, 2014
RE: Another question from an agnostic about the Jews
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text> As to the definition of Messiah, Yeshua certainly fit the description.....
No, Jesus certainly did NOT fit the Jewish definition of the word "Messiah". It seems you know very little about what is the Jewish view. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#30 Jul 1, 2014
QUITTNER on July 1 2014 wrote:
RE: Another question from an agnostic about the Jews
<quoted text>
No, Jesus certainly did NOT fit the Jewish definition of the word "Messiah". It seems you know very little about what is the Jewish view. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah
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The problem with using wikipedia as a source is that anyone can contribute to a subject regardless of any knowledge of the subject. If you have an objection to Yeshua as the Messiah on Judaic grounds state your case, if you can do it. Then I will be happy to correct you from Jewish sources.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#32 Jul 1, 2014
PRINCE OF DARKNESS wrote:
<quoted text>
next you will tell us the bible is true because it says so in the bible... IDIOT...
jewish sources slant things to the jewish viewpoint.. DUH!!!
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If that is so, why would you believe a Jewish source that says Yeshua is not the Messiah?
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Are you really thinking about what you say? If you can't trust a Jewish source to tell you about Judaism which source would be better a Chinese one? Does your head wobble from side to side when you talk?

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#33 Jul 1, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
I am not arguing that one can lose a status, you responded to my post telling you so. The verse you reference has nothing to do with if Israel is rejected, it only applies to the Jews who rejected the Messiah.( For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:) You have to read the bible in context, G-d can't say on one hand they are rejected and in another place call them a royal priesthood and a holy nation (1Pe 2:9) and that they would sit on thrones (Mat_19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.) This is inconsistent and shows a lack of understand the entire scripture. There is only one tree (the olive) one faith, one Lord, one baptism.
.
<quoted text> There is a new Israel according to the New testament (Gal. 3:16-29.)
.
There is no reference in this passage to a "new Israel". It is talking about the promised seed, which is Messiah, and the covenant of faith. Anyone can enter this covenant just as strangers could enter the Mosaic covenant. Israel didn't become new under Moses, and it hasn't become new under Yeshua.
.
<quoted text>
No one comes to the Father but through Jesus. So if they deny Jesus they deny the Father.
.
I agree, but this makes them no more of an anti-Christ than an agnostic. We have to be born again, not acknowledge a set of beliefs.
This is not worthy of my time, Sir or Ma'am.

I'll leave you with this Scripture from the book of Matthew (21:43:)

"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Being a Jew does not make you a chosen person of God. If you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, you are an antichrist.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#35 Jul 1, 2014
PRINCE OF DARKNESS wrote:
<quoted text>
so you trust the the Taliban and Al Queda to tell you the truth about Islam? They are muslims aren't they?...
Let's see, there are over a 100 versions of the bible....which denomination of the christianity will tell you about christianity?
I am pretty sure I would believe the atheist version before I would buy into the slanted view of religious nitwits....
by the way, were your parents brother and sister?
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It would seem logical that Al Qaeda and the Taliban would know more about Islam than Wikipedia. The article on Islam could be written by any one of many Islamic sects.
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For someone who thinks he has all the answers you sure can't answer many questions.
QUITTNER on July 1 2014

Toronto, Canada

#36 Jul 6, 2014
RE: Another question from an agnostic about the Jews
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.The problem with using wikipedia as a source is that anyone can contribute to a subject regardless of any knowledge of the subject. If you have an objection to Yeshua as the Messiah on Judaic grounds state your case, if you can do it. Then I will be happy to correct you from Jewish sources.
..... I regard that as "Water under the Bridge" and quite unimportant in 2014. Many people have helped many others over the years and helping and harming will continue. Thank you for helping others.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#38 Jul 10, 2014
Peace,

I wont be posting anymore. The One True God has caused me or allowed me to see that I shouldn't talk the way that I do. By the "One True God" I mean the God of Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farrakhan, Who is the God of the Bible and Holy Qur'an. I am NOT a Muslim however.

Peace.
nunnies

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