According to your opinion, where doe'...
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little lamb

Australia

#21 Feb 25, 2013
Frank from Fayetteville wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, appears that way, but to be fair they don't really worship the black rock.
They walk around it ..touch it and kiss it, and its obligatory to visit it..how can you say that not worship or rendering sacred service to a black rock???
socci

Cameron, MO

#22 Feb 25, 2013
Frank from Fayetteville

Spring Lake, NC

#23 Feb 26, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
They walk around it ..touch it and kiss it, and its obligatory to visit it..how can you say that not worship or rendering sacred service to a black rock???
I don't have a dog in this fight because I'm not a muslim, however--having dabbled in Islam and Sufism some years ago and learning all of the basics and beyond---I know that muslims don't worship the rock.

Sure, there's some retarded hadiths about the rock, like it having came from paradise and will grow eyes and a mouth one day and testify on behalf of those whom touched it with sincerity, etc., but muslims don't worship it.

And it being obligatory to visit it is simply a part of the obligation of visiting the kaba during hajj---a number of other things are "obligatory" at hajj as well, such as circling the kaba a specific number of times, throwing rocks at a certain point, shaving the head, etc., lol.

Anything that muslims witnessed muhammad doing became a part of the religion, including his treatment of the black rock. They believe that the rock is from paradise and that Abraham built the Kaba, hence their reverence for these things.

Here's a hadith that, imo, expresses the average muslims view on this issue. This is a hadith not about muhammad but one which recounts something Umar (one of his companions and, later, one of the four "rightly guided" caliphs) said and did:

"It was narrated that ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) came to the Black Stone and kissed it, then he said:“I know that you are only a stone which can neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Were it not that I had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kiss you, I would not have kissed you.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1520; Muslim, 1720)

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#24 Feb 26, 2013
Troth for Leogere wrote:
<quoted text>Bullcrap.. you are the epitome of an oreo!
And you're the epitome of an idiot...I guess you win...

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#26 Feb 26, 2013
Frank from Fayetteville wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya know, NDANGER, this is an interesting subject.
Whites invaded and founded America on a red and brown continent and imported blacks and then later let in some chinese and japanese, so the multi-racial population of America is understandable, whether people like it or not, because a minority of other races were here from the start.
But what I can't understand is why the NATIVE populations in Europe would allow themselves and their cultures to be slowly wiped out of existence.
That's your mother-land, but many Europeans seem to have lost the desire to continue as a people.
Well, my aunt who lives in Germany states that (like here) after the wall came down, Germany welcomed Auslanders who were mostly the Turks because of the cheap labor, gave them all the freebies while the East German's sat idle (East being absorbed by West) and ending up saddled with high unemployment...The East German people were looked down upon as sub par with high unemployment, alcohol and drug abuse...

Then when the economy hit the skids, the Govt was left holding the bag having to prop everything up internally and externally (Greece, etc...)

We'll drag ourselves down while the EU will drag themselves down as well...

dollarsbill

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#28 Mar 3, 2013
"According to your opinion, where doe's Islam fit into G-d's plan?"

Islam provides the Billions of folks who will die in Revelation. They will burn in Hell forever.

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#29 Mar 3, 2013
dollarsbill wrote:
"According to your opinion, where doe's Islam fit into G-d's plan?"
Islam provides the Billions of folks who will die in Revelation. They will burn in Hell forever.
Could be the Muslims, Catholics, Chinese or Indians as all have over a Billion...
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#30 Mar 5, 2013
The Almighty will be the judge but in my opinion its POSSIBLE they worship the same God as the Hebrews did. Not sure though since there are differences in what the god of Mohammed commanded and what the God of Israel commanded. This is why I lean to Mohammed being a false prophet following another god other than the God of Abraham. But as I said only One will be the judge of that
Frank

Raeford, NC

#31 Mar 6, 2013
This one's tricky.

Muhammad would be easy to accept had he simply left out the whole "I'm a prophet" deal. Had he done so, Muhammad could have been considered a great reformer and his followers another sect and that would have been that, ya know?

I can take a copy of the bible and use it to justify just about everything that he taught (minus some of what is in the hadiths, of course).

Basically, the guy taught a form of judaism that accepts Yeshuah as a prophet, and that's the gist of it right there--of course he tweaked it a bit, but still, he called to G-d and opposed idolatry in all of its many forms.

Either way, if there is a G-d--and most of us here believe that there is--then he and his followers have got to be some part of the big plan because they're simply too big.
IamHim

United States

#32 Mar 7, 2013
Frank wrote:
This one's tricky.
Muhammad would be easy to accept had he simply left out the whole "I'm a prophet" deal. Had he done so, Muhammad could have been considered a great reformer and his followers another sect and that would have been that, ya know?
I can take a copy of the bible and use it to justify just about everything that he taught (minus some of what is in the hadiths, of course).
Basically, the guy taught a form of judaism that accepts Yeshuah as a prophet, and that's the gist of it right there--of course he tweaked it a bit, but still, he called to G-d and opposed idolatry in all of its many forms.
Either way, if there is a G-d--and most of us here believe that there is--then he and his followers have got to be some part of the big plan because they're simply too big.
Well Moses didnt teach Judaism nor did Mohammed for one. And also, theres too many things in the law and the prophets telling people to follow the teaching of Moses. Not my teaching. Not the teaching of Jesus. Not the teaching of Mohammed. Therefore it doesnt make much sense that God Almighty would say that, then later send a prophet to modify it. Why would anyone take the latter of the first? This is just the perception I see. Whether God sees it that way (which is what really matters) is up to guess.

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