Xtians will you make the case

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#444 Feb 1, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
Good joke Job and very true. Salvation is only by the grace of God through faith in Christ Jesus. There is nothing we can ever do to earn it!(Ephesians 2:8-9)
Stop repeating your demonic anti-God lies.

ALL souls will be judged entirely upon their thoughts and actions. Your evil do nothing to spiritually evolve mythology only leads people astray and sets them up to FAIL their judgment.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#448 Feb 2, 2013
LIes Busters wrote:
<quoted text>Then your fairy dad is of no consequences, so stop looking under your bed and in the closets.
Stop spamming the threads, Doc".
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#449 Feb 2, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
<quoted text>
Good works alone will not mean anything. Salvation is a complete free gift by faith in the sinless life, death, and resurrected Jesus! You see Adam's disobedience brought sin into the world.......but Jesus Christ came to take it away!(Romans 5:12-19)
You can do this Proty Dance ALL you wish and even add a few new steps along the way - but it will never matter. All the above is drivel, it means nothing and it tells us nothing of any value. Its smoke and mirrors for the simple-minded.

You dont have any clue HOW you're doing, WHERE you stand at any given moment, and a simple act can screw up a lot of good work and vice versa. You worship in the dark, you believe in the dark and your standings with this deity is completely unknown to You.

And NOTHING you do even faith is useful. And thats the very words of your beloved Bible, the thing you truly worship over any deity.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#450 Feb 2, 2013
LIes Busters wrote:
<quoted text>No, there are no moral absolutisms. If we deem that gays are 80% of the AIDS cases and 91% contemplating suicide, then there can be no morality against killing gays when the results are the same. Right?
Matthew 13:41-44 You are the children of the devil, so how can it be murder, when your father, the devil was a murderer from the beginning. Right?
Wanna try again...this time with meaning.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/g...
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#451 Feb 2, 2013
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
Now I know you don't like my beliefs, but for the sake of those reading these forums, I will add my input on this issue you raised.

The "point system" is not so much the amount or magnitude of the good deeds. But what is in one's heart and soul, the strength of the willingness to do good, the motives, and the lengths one will take to accomplish them.
I neither like nor dislike...I respect them as individual rights to have them. My lack of belief, and conviction that they are any more telling the truth than the mainstream and not so mainstream Religious ones...is another matter. Sort of a same forest just a different tree thing. I do find some of your POV's interesting enough to mull over from time to time...

But how do we truly measure "our hearts", let alone that of ones soul..? It all comes back to individual POV's. One man/woman's hard work at a good deed is anothers throw away act. One person can simply be "born" to be and do good, and another not so much. One can be born into a more agreeable environment for being and doing good, while another is in a constant pitched battle with both good and bad.

So we're left - if I read you right - with a completely individual measuring system. Where each person is "graded" individually and wholly apart from every one else...? Yes? No?(which sounds okay to me, as I detest the notion of these universal grading systems put forth by traditional theists) After all how could the field be level for a nice little girl raised in a safe, secure and "easy" environment to do good - to a girl born in a "war zone".(it could be poverty or a real war zone with deep fractional divides)

Which again leaves us in the dark as to our standings.

One of the greatest dilemmas of Religious belief - even that of those that appear to have no traditional Religious alliance - is the anxiety over ones standings with their Deity, or in the general system one Believes in. "Where do I stand?"

Luther and Calvin tried to fix that dilemma - poorly and pretty much by ignoring both tradition and more importantly scripture. And its deteriorated to what we see now in American Xtianity - "Name it and Claim it!" "Come one come all, and decide for yourself where you stand!"

Or to a system/s where its all so arbitrary to not mean much at all. If we're all being individually graded, and not contrasted to any standards - no one can say anything about themselves or any one else for that matter. As the measuring sticks are all unique.

What purpose would a Deity or the "Universe" have in measuring us in the first place...and secondly, what would it matter to either that a "system" of belief was ever communicated to any Beings...?(Especially in light of all the disparate and contradictory beliefs in all of them, even within the same systems?)

That's why that joke is truly a clever one...its points out the absolute weakest aspects of not only Xtianity, but all other Faiths as well. Its a 100% cr/p-shoot all around.
OKAY

Houston, TX

#452 Feb 2, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah. Lesson 1. The Bible is a compilation story of myths.
Lesson 2. See Lesson 1. Lesson 3. Dont believe a Bible believer when they make absurd claims about their God or Bible. Lesson 4. See lesson 1. Lesson 5. Dont believe the Bible has special meaning, language or powers.
All of your 'lessons' are a moot point. You can't debate faith.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#453 Feb 2, 2013
OKAY wrote:
<quoted text>
All of your 'lessons' are a moot point. You can't debate faith.
Why not?

Where is that rule written?

BTW, Moot really means the exact opposite of your usage. Moot means debatable...open to debate, etc.

I realize most people confuse the usage, but its usually due to various media commentators misuse...if this was a moot court, yes, the point being argued would have been decided by a court ruling - BUT that doesn't mean the point is not open for debate. In reality RoevWade is a moot decision/case, but its still very much debatable and is...

:)

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#454 Feb 2, 2013
Punisher wrote:
But how do we truly measure "our hearts", let alone that of ones soul..? It all comes back to individual POV's. One man/woman's hard work at a good deed is anothers throw away act. One person can simply be "born" to be and do good, and another not so much. One can be born into a more agreeable environment for being and doing good, while another is in a constant pitched battle with both good and bad.
So we're left - if I read you right - with a completely individual measuring system. Where each person is "graded" individually and wholly apart from every one else...? Yes? No?(which sounds okay to me, as I detest the notion of these universal grading systems put forth by traditional theists) After all how could the field be level for a nice little girl raised in a safe, secure and "easy" environment to do good - to a girl born in a "war zone".(it could be poverty or a real war zone with deep fractional divides)
Which again leaves us in the dark as to our standings.
One of the greatest dilemmas of Religious belief - even that of those that appear to have no traditional Religious alliance - is the anxiety over ones standings with their Deity, or in the general system one Believes in. "Where do I stand?"
Or to a system/s where its all so arbitrary to not mean much at all. If we're all being individually graded, and not contrasted to any standards - no one can say anything about themselves or any one else for that matter. As the measuring sticks are all unique.
What purpose would a Deity or the "Universe" have in measuring us in the first place...and secondly, what would it matter to either that a "system" of belief was ever communicated to any Beings...?(Especially in light of all the disparate and contradictory beliefs in all of them, even within the same systems?)
Edited for space
You are switching/confusing the issue.

This started out as GOD'S "point system" of measuring "good works", not the individual's.

As to your comments:

"Religious alliance - is the anxiety over ones standings with their Deity, or in the general system one Believes in. "Where do I stand?""

And:

"That's why that joke is truly a clever one...its points out the absolute weakest aspects of not only Xtianity, but all other Faiths as well. Its a 100% cr/p-shoot all around."

Well, maybe from your perspective that's true. But I do not see any benefit in knowing exactly "Where I stand." or more correctly "Where will I stand upon my judgment day?". Because let's say I did know that I was going to pass my judgment. Then what? I have no doubt that I would not work as hard in doing "good works" or working toward even more spiritual understanding as I do now. So while I have had the privileged of being given knowledge about the general judgment process, I would rather not know for certain what the exact criteria I will be held to. I would rather keep going full steam ahead spiritually evolving in the perspective that I MIGHT meet the spiritual level of attainment required to pass my judgment and enter Heaven.

Now from my time on Topix, it has made me fully aware of just how privileged I am to have been given such spiritual "gifts" and such a uniquely profound spiritual life with the true Spirit of God to guide me. But as hard as I try, I cannot fully relate to those of you who are self blocked from your soul, that would allow you the same spiritual opportunity's as I was given. So it seems that you all are in the guessing stage, using your carnal mind only. But I would suggest that you keep a similar perspective, and go thru life trying to spiritually evolve full steam ahead, trying to figure out the great mystery called life, without knowing how many "points" you are being given. Or if they're "enough" to pass judgment.

However, I will add that anyone trying to make "Heavenly points", just to make "Heavenly points", which the fundies are famous for, will fail their judgment.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#455 Feb 2, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>I neither like nor dislike...I respect them as individual rights to have them. My lack of belief, and conviction that they are any more telling the truth than the mainstream and not so mainstream Religious ones...is another matter. Sort of a same forest just a different tree thing. I do find some of your POV's interesting enough to mull over from time to time...
But how do we truly measure "our hearts", let alone that of ones soul..? It all comes back to individual POV's. One man/woman's hard work at a good deed is anothers throw away act. One person can simply be "born" to be and do good, and another not so much. One can be born into a more agreeable environment for being and doing good, while another is in a constant pitched battle with both good and bad.
So we're left - if I read you right - with a completely individual measuring system. Where each person is "graded" individually and wholly apart from every one else...? Yes? No?(which sounds okay to me, as I detest the notion of these universal grading systems put forth by traditional theists) After all how could the field be level for a nice little girl raised in a safe, secure and "easy" environment to do good - to a girl born in a "war zone".(it could be poverty or a real war zone with deep fractional divides)
Which again leaves us in the dark as to our standings.
One of the greatest dilemmas of Religious belief - even that of those that appear to have no traditional Religious alliance - is the anxiety over ones standings with their Deity, or in the general system one Believes in. "Where do I stand?"
Luther and Calvin tried to fix that dilemma - poorly and pretty much by ignoring both tradition and more importantly scripture. And its deteriorated to what we see now in American Xtianity - "Name it and Claim it!" "Come one come all, and decide for yourself where you stand!"
Or to a system/s where its all so arbitrary to not mean much at all. If we're all being individually graded, and not contrasted to any standards - no one can say anything about themselves or any one else for that matter. As the measuring sticks are all unique.
What purpose would a Deity or the "Universe" have in measuring us in the first place...and secondly, what would it matter to either that a "system" of belief was ever communicated to any Beings...?(Especially in light of all the disparate and contradictory beliefs in all of them, even within the same systems?)
Edited for space...
Now as to your statements of:

"What purpose would a Deity or the "Universe" have in measuring us in the first place..."

And:

"and secondly, what would it matter to either that a "system" of belief was ever communicated to any Beings...?(Especially in light of all the disparate and contradictory beliefs in all of them, even within the same systems?)"

I've answered the first question several times before in the past, so perhaps you missed them.

ALL souls were created to spiritually evolve thru out the eons until they have attained the spiritual level requires to pass God's judgment and enter Heaven. To exist there as purely spiritual entities fully in accord to God's laws, nature, and plan for >>>ALL<<< souls. To take their rightful part in helping all the spiritually evolving souls still in the physical worlds/realm/universe, and with the ongoing creation and maintenance of the physical realm/universe.

And I am NOT joking on what I post on spiritual matters. I get so damn frustrated with you spiritually broken ones at times. These things WERE "communicated" to me thru my spiritual experiences. And has to many others, all the time. All of which is pretty much in accord with each other's experiences and beliefs gained from such spiritual experiences. Given some allowance for individual perceptions and ways of articulating such experiences/answers/understand ings. So you are probably going by man made RELIGIONS, which have nothing to do with true spiritual matters.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#456 Feb 2, 2013
OKAY wrote:
<quoted text>
All of your 'lessons' are a moot point. You can't debate faith.
LMFAO

You sure can say the stupidest things ALL the time.

“The Topix Legend of "GS8"!”

Since: Sep 10

United States, North America

#457 Feb 2, 2013
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
LMFAO
You sure can say the stupidest things ALL the time.
Star aka Seen you are stupid as they come on topix. I a perplexed to think you fail to see how dumb you really are.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#458 Feb 2, 2013
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
You are switching/confusing the issue.
This started out as GOD'S "point system" of measuring "good works", not the individual's.
As to your comments:
"Religious alliance - is the anxiety over ones standings with their Deity, or in the general system one Believes in. "Where do I stand?""
And:
"That's why that joke is truly a clever one...its points out the absolute weakest aspects of not only Xtianity, but all other Faiths as well. Its a 100% cr/p-shoot all around."
Well, maybe from your perspective that's true. But I do not see any benefit in knowing exactly "Where I stand." or more correctly "Where will I stand upon my judgment day?". Because let's say I did know that I was going to pass my judgment. Then what? I have no doubt that I would not work as hard in doing "good works" or working toward lving in the perspective that I MIGHT meet the spiritual level of attainment required to pass my judgment and enter Heaven.
Now from my time on Topix, it has made me fully aware of just how privileged I am to have been given such spiritual "gifts" and such a uniquely profound spiritual life with the true Spirit of God to guide me.

But as hard as I try, I cannot fully relate to those of you who are self blocked from your soul, that would allow you the same spiritual opportunity's as I was given.

So it seems that you all are in the guessing stage, using your carnal mind only. But I would suggest that you keep a similar perspective, and go thru life trying to spiritually evolve full steam ahead, trying to figure out the great mystery called life, without knowing how many "points" you are being given. Or if they're "enough" to pass judgment.

However, I will add that anyone trying to make "Heavenly points", just to make "Heavenly points", which the fundies are famous for, will fail their judgment.
Try as I might I cant help but remain confused by people who are blocked by their self-delusions of spiritual grandeur.

I see nothing of reality in such people who think they were specially selected by a God or the Universe as their chosen peoples, or person.

I am continually angered by these self-appointed "Spiitual Masters" who insult and condescend to people who simply disagree with their PERSONAL POV's. That they can not PROVE in any real manner. Any more then the more traditional Religions can do.

I'm tired of what amounts to nothing but the mocking tone of the Religious and the other Spiritual Masters towards those like me who see nothing reality based in these religious/spiritual POV's - and then wonder why it it they get mocked in return...by those like me. I mean really?

You see the condescension goes both ways. If you want to go that route we can go there - as we have in the past. But I'm not interested in that path.

BTW, I'm not interested in any poitn system. I was pointing them out in other belief systems.

And as for oyou not wanting to know your standings...I dont believe it. Any human would want o know their place in the grand scheme of things. Plus, unlike you, when I get congratulated, get a "good grade", I dont slack off. I'm the type who works harder.

My spiritual path just doesnt include all the mumbo jumbo, spooky language, metaphysical, disembodied, ethereal stuff...

And this carnal mind stuff is so funny to me. I'm in no way insulted, or feel lessened when you Spiritual Masters say I live in a carnal mind state. Same cr/p the Xtians sling. Like I said, same forest, different tree.

We are carnal - in that we are physical beings, and nothing but. Thats what we are...we are flesh and blood, all day every day, every minute...we are flesh and we are blood, and that is it. We dont "Transcend" anything...our flesh and blood might trick us, but thats all it is. getting out of my body is anathema to me. I love this thing, I want to stay IN this thing as long as I can and enjoy it each and every day, like I do now.

Carnality is where its at.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#459 Feb 2, 2013
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
Now as to your statements of:
"What purpose would a Deity or the "Universe" have in measuring us in the first place..."
And:
"and secondly, what would it matter to either that a "system" of belief was ever communicated to any Beings...?(Especially in light of all the disparate and contradictory beliefs in all of them, even within the same systems?)"
I've answered the first question several times before in the past, so perhaps you missed them.

1. ALL souls were created to spiritually evolve thru out the eons until they have attained the spiritual level requires to pass God's judgment and enter Heaven. To exist there as purely spiritual entities fully in accord to God's laws, nature, and plan for >>>ALL<<< souls. To take their rightful part in helping all the spiritually evolving souls still in the physical worlds/realm/universe, and with the ongoing creation and maintenance of the physical realm/universe.

2. And I am NOT joking on what I post on spiritual matters.

I get so damn frustrated with you spiritually broken ones at times. These things WERE "communicated" to me thru my spiritual experiences. And has to many others, all the time. All of which is pretty much in accord with each other's experiences and beliefs gained from such spiritual experiences. Given some allowance for individual perceptions and ways of articulating such experiences/answers/understand ings. So you are probably going by man made RELIGIONS, which have nothing to do with true spiritual matters.
1. And like everyone else making wild claims - YOU have zero proof. Sounds all pretty, but its not proven. Its made up.

Life, this physcial life was not create to serve some spiritual realm. LIFE told me that, MY LIFE EXPERIENCES told me that. Life is for living not paying some debt of some made-up spirit world. LIFE taught and told me that.

2. My flesh and blood and all the viscera, plus LIFE has taught ME, thru MY experiences that LIFE is not created to undo some made-up debt of some made-up spiritual realm where Souls are living in some miasma "out there someplace". Waiting to get back here to work off some past errors. What a stupid system that is, and wholly unsupported by any proof.

Nah, I'm not broken. Ive broken many a bone, tore up skin and tendon...but I'm not broken.

Frustrated? I would say we both trend to anger when others try and tell us How to live and what Is The TRUTH.

I am flesh and I am blood and I love it! I'm saddened that so many people hate their lives, their bodies and their physicality so much they fantasize to the point of obsession about some "other out-there place" they want to be more than right in their skin.

You and the Religionistas who live for that "out-there" place, for an after life, the dance club in the sky - you're all like people who work for free. What the hell for?

I feel so blessed that I appreciate being flesh and blood. And I dont waste time yearning for unproven, ethereal promises of paying back some fairy-tale debts to achieve Nirvana or some notion of pure transcendence. Phooey!

LIFE is my Spiritual Master and guide. Not all the silly, spooky language BS.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#460 Feb 2, 2013
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
You are switching/confusing the issue.
This started out as GOD'S "point system" of measuring "good works", not the individual's.
As to your comments:
No, Im neither switching or confused. I was saying that as I understood your point - about "judgment" - that there is no universal standards of measurement as there is nothing universal in the way people are constrained or lifted by their conditions and personalities when it comes to pursuing - heartily or half-heartily - to do good or avoid bad.

As it sounds from your explanations, each person must be "judged" on their individual cases. Yes? No? And not on the arcana that makes up the measuring systems of the Traditional Religions...? Yes? No?(that we both disagree with, but from differing POV's)

My original points to Job's joke were solely about the Point type system that exists in Xtianity...not to the points you made, about my points to Job.

As I understand it, your system has no real point system, but there is some equally arcane judging going on...so in your case I dont understand why the "Universe" would communicate anything about doing anything to satisfy it. Unless like the Judeo-Xtian-Muslim God its a perverted, psychopath.

Again, the cleverness of Job's joke was that it cut across every Belief system that has some sort of arbitrarily judged After-life, reincarnation, soul debt paying forward, etc sort of systems. They are all remarkably random and wholly "measured' by unknown metrics. Of which no one worried about the measuring and outcomes are privy to!

Its like never knowing what size foot you have - so you have to go and try on every F'n shoe. "What size is your foot? I have no clue, I dont know how they're measured."

Its the same thing with all this Spiritual, after-life pay back of some silly soul-debt, of ancestors, or my much older self...! None of you have an F'n clue what you're all up against.

Its all so silly to me. All the arcana...entertaining for sure...but silly nonetheless.

I wake up every day I know exactly what I'm up against and why. And I know the metrics. That's what LIFE in the flesh and blood living in reality is all about. Its not arcana...

Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#461 Feb 2, 2013
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>

So you are probably going by man made RELIGIONS, which have nothing to do with true spiritual matters.
This the phrase to beat all phrases - that condescend. Its nothing but the self-elevation (onto a pedestal)of the speaker.

You know how many times I've heard this from both traditional non-traditional "Spiritual Masters"? My twenty fingers and toes are so not enough to count. And each of them came from a different spiritual POV. From the US, to the M.E, to Southwest Asia, to Latin America. All of them said the same things about themselves and others. "I am the Master, they are the charlatans!"

I politely smiled in most case and went on my visceral, carnal mind way to learn about real Life and real Death. Not the made up shyte they were trying to peddle.

Spiritual Masters just want an audience. They dont want to EXPERIENCE real LIFE. Spiritual Masters are the Evolutionary equivalent of light bulbs to the bugs who die for them.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#462 Feb 2, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Try as I might I cant help but remain confused by people who are blocked by their self-delusions of spiritual grandeur.
I see nothing of reality in such people who think they were specially selected by a God or the Universe as their chosen peoples, or person.
I'm tired of what amounts to nothing but the mocking tone of the Religious and the other Spiritual Masters towards those like me who see nothing reality based in these religious/spiritual POV's - and then wonder why it it they get mocked in return...by those like me. I mean really?
You see the condescension goes both ways. If you want to go that route we can go there - as we have in the past. But I'm not interested in that path.
Ha, that's the fundie tactic to go for the personal insults when they are made aware that they aren't the know it all they claim to be.

But your angry exaggerations aside, like I stated before, I know you don't like my beliefs. And you just proved me right by your lashing out like that.

I only posted things as I see them, from my personal experience. If you want to take offense, oh well. I'm used to dealing with those who think the physical world is all there is, that they know everything, and both fear and ridicule that which they don't understand to maintain their feelings of know it allness.
Punisher wrote:
BTW, I'm not interested in any poitn system. I was pointing them out in other belief systems.
And as for oyou not wanting to know your standings...I dont believe it. Any human would want o know their place in the grand scheme of things. Plus, unlike you, when I get congratulated, get a "good grade", I dont slack off. I'm the type who works harder.
That's what the discussion was about, gaining points for good works, and one's standing as a result. So why say you are NOT interested at first, then say you want to know, would work harder for more points/better grades?

And let's get one thing straight, I could care less if you think you are such a know it all that you're going to tell me how I am, because you are full of it.

And you are trying to twist things by taking my statement about where I will stand come judgment day, and how one fits into the "grand scheme of things". Two entirely different things.
Punisher wrote:
My spiritual path just doesnt include all the mumbo jumbo, spooky language, metaphysical, disembodied, ethereal stuff...
And this carnal mind stuff is so funny to me. I'm in no way insulted, or feel lessened when you Spiritual Masters say I live in a carnal mind state. Same cr/p the Xtians sling. Like I said, same forest, different tree.
Although it wasn't intentional, it's now obvious why you went postal, you WERE "insulted" by my using the term "carnal mind". Well, it's true. It's not "mumbo jumbo, spooky language, metaphysical, disembodied, ethereal stuff..." to me. And it's not my problem if you want to go postal if I try explaining things to you, and one word throws you into a rage.

To me, my spiritual "gifts" are perfectly natural and nothing "spooky" about them. Like I've stated before, I've come to terms with them a l-o-n-g time ago. But there is no way around it, it's your carnal mind that blocks you from fully understanding this. And it will always be out of reach to you.
Punisher wrote:
We are carnal - in that we are physical beings, and nothing but. Thats what we are...we are flesh and blood, all day every day, every minute...we are flesh and we are blood, and that is it. We dont "Transcend" anything...our flesh and blood might trick us, but thats all it is. getting out of my body is anathema to me. I love this thing, I want to stay IN this thing as long as I can and enjoy it each and every day, like I do now.
Carnality is where its at.
Blam...

And there it is...

Just what I've also come to terms with from you spiritually broken ones, and why you fear that there is more to this mystery called life.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#463 Feb 2, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
1. And like everyone else making wild claims - YOU have zero proof. Sounds all pretty, but its not proven. Its made up.
Life, this physcial life was not create to serve some spiritual realm. LIFE told me that, MY LIFE EXPERIENCES told me that. Life is for living not paying some debt of some made-up spirit world. LIFE taught and told me that.
2. My flesh and blood and all the viscera, plus LIFE has taught ME, thru MY experiences that LIFE is not created to undo some made-up debt of some made-up spiritual realm where Souls are living in some miasma "out there someplace". Waiting to get back here to work off some past errors. What a stupid system that is, and wholly unsupported by any proof.
Nah, I'm not broken. Ive broken many a bone, tore up skin and tendon...but I'm not broken.
Frustrated? I would say we both trend to anger when others try and tell us How to live and what Is The TRUTH.
I am flesh and I am blood and I love it! I'm saddened that so many people hate their lives, their bodies and their physicality so much they fantasize to the point of obsession about some "other out-there place" they want to be more than right in their skin.
You and the Religionistas who live for that "out-there" place, for an after life, the dance club in the sky - you're all like people who work for free. What the hell for?
I feel so blessed that I appreciate being flesh and blood. And I dont waste time yearning for unproven, ethereal promises of paying back some fairy-tale debts to achieve Nirvana or some notion of pure transcendence. Phooey!
LIFE is my Spiritual Master and guide. Not all the silly, spooky language BS.
My!

You sure do have a strong emotional fear of the unknown and think your ignorance is all there is to this great mystery called life.

Why does it throw you into such a rage because I know that there is more to this realm than you think there is?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#464 Feb 2, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>No, Im neither switching or confused. I was saying that as I understood your point - about "judgment" - that there is no universal standards of measurement as there is nothing universal in the way people are constrained or lifted by their conditions and personalities when it comes to pursuing - heartily or half-heartily - to do good or avoid bad.
As it sounds from your explanations, each person must be "judged" on their individual cases. Yes? No? And not on the arcana that makes up the measuring systems of the Traditional Religions...? Yes? No?(that we both disagree with, but from differing POV's)
My original points to Job's joke were solely about the Point type system that exists in Xtianity...not to the points you made, about my points to Job.
As I understand it, your system has no real point system, but there is some equally arcane judging going on...so in your case I dont understand why the "Universe" would communicate anything about doing anything to satisfy it. Unless like the Judeo-Xtian-Muslim God its a perverted, psychopath.
Again, the cleverness of Job's joke was that it cut across every Belief system that has some sort of arbitrarily judged After-life, reincarnation, soul debt paying forward, etc sort of systems. They are all remarkably random and wholly "measured' by unknown metrics. Of which no one worried about the measuring and outcomes are privy to!
Its like never knowing what size foot you have - so you have to go and try on every F'n shoe. "What size is your foot? I have no clue, I dont know how they're measured."
Its the same thing with all this Spiritual, after-life pay back of some silly soul-debt, of ancestors, or my much older self...! None of you have an F'n clue what you're all up against.
Its all so silly to me. All the arcana...entertaining for sure...but silly nonetheless.
I wake up every day I know exactly what I'm up against and why. And I know the metrics. That's what LIFE in the flesh and blood living in reality is all about. Its not arcana...
WOW!!!

You get even more spazed out than the fundies.

This is WAY too full of emotional crap that is all over the place to sort out or make sense of.

Look, I know what I know, and am who I say I am. It's NOT my problem if you have such a great fear of the unknown and have to go ballistic like this when faced with the facts that your limited understanding is NOT all there is to this world/realm.

This is just emotional bouncing all over the place, and nothing like a discussion/debate. It's just an outpouring of your frustrations and un-acceptance that there are things you cannot experience or understand.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#465 Feb 2, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>This the phrase to beat all phrases - that condescend. Its nothing but the self-elevation (onto a pedestal)of the speaker.
You know how many times I've heard this from both traditional non-traditional "Spiritual Masters"? My twenty fingers and toes are so not enough to count. And each of them came from a different spiritual POV. From the US, to the M.E, to Southwest Asia, to Latin America. All of them said the same things about themselves and others. "I am the Master, they are the charlatans!"
I politely smiled in most case and went on my visceral, carnal mind way to learn about real Life and real Death. Not the made up shyte they were trying to peddle.
Spiritual Masters just want an audience. They dont want to EXPERIENCE real LIFE. Spiritual Masters are the Evolutionary equivalent of light bulbs to the bugs who die for them.
Did all that emotional outpouring of total crap make you feel better?

None of it has anything to do with what I stated.

So is THAT your problem?

That you tried to seek spiritual answers with the help of other's, and failed?

So now want to take your frustrations out on me?

Well, good luck with that. What started out as a civil discussion, you promptly blew up into several posts of spastic all over the place emotional rantings.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#468 Feb 3, 2013
-The Star Reborn- wrote:
<quoted text>
Ha, that's the fundie tactic to go for the personal insults when they are made aware that they aren't the know it all they claim to be.
But your angry exaggerations aside, like I stated before, I know you don't like my beliefs. And you just proved me right by your lashing out like that.
I only posted things as I see them, from my personal experience. If you want to take offense, oh well. I'm used to dealing with those who think the physical world is all there is, that they know everything, and both fear and ridicule that which they don't understand to maintain their feelings of know it allness.
<quoted text>
That's what the discussion was about, gaining points for good works, and one's standing as a result. So why say you are NOT interested at first, then say you want to know, would work harder for more points/better grades?
And let's get one thing straight, I could care less if you think you are such a know it all that you're going to tell me how I am, because you are full of it.
And you are trying to twist things by taking my statement about where I will stand come judgment day, and how one fits into the "grand scheme of things". Two entirely different things.
<quoted text>
Although it wasn't intentional, it's now obvious why you went postal, you WERE "insulted" by my using the term "carnal mind". Well, it's true. It's not "mumbo jumbo, spooky language, metaphysical, disembodied, ethereal stuff..." to me. And it's not my problem if you want to go postal if I try explaining things to you, and one word throws you into a rage.
To me, my spiritual "gifts" are perfectly natural and nothing "spooky" about them. Like I've stated before, I've come to terms with them a l-o-n-g time ago. But there is no way around it, it's your carnal mind that blocks you from fully understanding this. And it will always be out of reach to you.
<quoted text>
Blam...
And there it is...
Just what I've also come to terms with from you spiritually broken ones, and why you fear that there is more to this mystery called life.
Not gonna get into much more of this - but when you SAY I'm spiritually broken you condescend and insult me! You show ME that YOU have zero tolerance and certainly lack an open mind to any other POV.

You are the KING of insult posting around here, so dont play that game with me. I, you tend to avoid each other around here and its best we keep that up.

You know NOTHING about ME, but what I post here - and its certainly not very detailed. I make no claims of spiritual mastery, I do NOT self-aggrandize - like You and the Xtians around here! I do not claim to have the ONLY and Absolute Answer for each and every other Human to follow.

You have your POV and I respect it - but when you wish to condescend and make idiot claims about your OWN Mastery of ALL Matters spiritual and about LIFE - I will push back, and push back harder!

Its fascinating that ONE who claims to be so enlightened cant see what an arrogant insult-spewer you are to others who merely and sensibly (for them) don't believe in your line of Spiritual rhetoric. That YOU can NOT prove to me or any one else as being real - or the ONLY TRUTH.

Your type boggle my mind...as Ive encountered many dozens of you Spiritual Masters in my life and everything you all say is from the same Self-aggrandizing, self-appointed expert, self-deluded play book of Self-Righteousness.

You are the exact same to me as the Xtians around here who think they have it all figured out and as such are now Self-appointed Spiritual Masters of everyone elses belief systems. You got the entirety of LIFE and the unproved Afetr-Life figured out, because YOU were specially selcted by whatever force you kneel to - and everyone is wrong. Phooey! I spit on your self-appointed authority. You know nothing about me! And my Life quest.

I think, that's all I have to say at this point, so lets agree to keep off the others sidewalk...?

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