Is Paul a false Apostle?
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#149 Sep 19, 2013
no-one-special wrote:
<quoted text>
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The has measurements because the House of God in it's entirety has had measurments in the past and will still be apart of the House of God. In other words, the second covenant doesn't do away with with the first covenant. It's still apart of the House of God in its entirety (Past,present and future).
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I have asked you to elaborate on what you mean by this "past, present, future" stuff and asked you to tie it into what Ezekiel said. Not the Ezekiel 36 stuff because that is before the LITERAL measurements that were greater than a human body and BEFORE the stuff about the Levites sacrificing goats and bulls and where they would spread the blood of the goats and bulls and how they were to wear their hair and who they were to marry. Can you do it?
no-one-special

Mérida, Mexico

#150 Sep 19, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>

I still dont understand what you mean by this past, present future stuff. Mind elaborating?
<quoted text>
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Okay. It's not easy to explain so bear with me. The Temple represents the House of God (which we all know doesn't need human hands to exist) and the House of God is made up of His obedient children under the first covenant beginning in Genesis forward, and then of those who are now under the second covenant in NT times, and ending in the paradise of God (Revelation 21 & 22). This is what I mean when I say we have to read Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah (especially when they deal with the Temple, the new covenant, and new earth) thinking Past, Present, and Future simultaneously to understand them. Or else we get people like 15th who think the authors of Ezekiel were in error and tried to force some sort of agenda or people who think it's talking about a descendant of David (also called David) who would be ruling over them in the future. Both are wrong. Those particular OT books and passages are talking about events or the House of God in their entirety (Past, Present,Future)

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Also, the final offering in NT times also covered those practicing the temporary offerings in OT times. The obedient children who also kept what he had commanded them to in OT times are still apart of the House of God. Those fathers of the faith were also living stones.

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no-one-special

Mérida, Mexico

#151 Sep 19, 2013
were and "STILL ARE" living stones of the House of God
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#152 Sep 19, 2013
no-one-special wrote:
<quoted text>
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Okay. It's not easy to explain so bear with me. The Temple represents the House of God (which we all know doesn't need human hands to exist) and the House of God is made up of His obedient children under the first covenant beginning in Genesis forward, and then of those who are now under the second covenant in NT times, and ending in the paradise of God (Revelation 21 & 22). This is what I mean when I say we have to read Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah (especially when they deal with the Temple, the new covenant, and new earth) thinking Past, Present, and Future simultaneously to understand them. Or else we get people like 15th who think the authors of Ezekiel were in error and tried to force some sort of agenda or people who think it's talking about a descendant of David (also called David) who would be ruling over them in the future. Both are wrong. Those particular OT books and passages are talking about events or the House of God in their entirety (Past, Present,Future)
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Also, the final offering in NT times also covered those practicing the temporary offerings in OT times. The obedient children who also kept what he had commanded them to in OT times are still apart of the House of God. Those fathers of the faith were also living stones.
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Ok now that I see what you are talking about (not that I agree) how is Ezekiel NOT a literal temple USING the book of Ezekiel? Meaning can you go to Ezekiel 41 and explain the measurements? Like the WALL of the temple? The ENTRANCE to the temple? The INNER SANCTUARY? The FOUNDATIONS of the side rooms? The TEMPLE COURTYARD? The MAIN HALL WITH A RECTANGULAR? I could go on if you would like....

Could you explain (again using the context) how these measurements were NOT literal but were metaphorical? And what were they metaphorical for?
no-one-special

Mérida, Mexico

#153 Sep 19, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok now that I see what you are talking about (not that I agree) how is Ezekiel NOT a literal temple USING the book of Ezekiel? Meaning can you go to Ezekiel 41 and explain the measurements? Like the WALL of the temple? The ENTRANCE to the temple? The INNER SANCTUARY? The FOUNDATIONS of the side rooms? The TEMPLE COURTYARD? The MAIN HALL WITH A RECTANGULAR? I could go on if you would like....
Could you explain (again using the context) how these measurements were NOT literal but were metaphorical? And what were they metaphorical for?
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They are literal in a sense that they have always existed and will exist as apart of the House of God forever.

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no-one-special

Mérida, Mexico

#154 Sep 19, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok now that I see what you are talking about (not that I agree) how is Ezekiel NOT a literal temple USING the book of Ezekiel? Meaning can you go to Ezekiel 41 and explain the measurements? Like the WALL of the temple? The ENTRANCE to the temple? The INNER SANCTUARY? The FOUNDATIONS of the side rooms? The TEMPLE COURTYARD? The MAIN HALL WITH A RECTANGULAR? I could go on if you would like....
Could you explain (again using the context) how these measurements were NOT literal but were metaphorical? And what were they metaphorical for?
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BTW...if you also understood what I was saying about how 'Time' should be viewed in these books then you should also take into consideration that we (living stones) are not yet living in in the garden of God which would also mean the Temple of God is still in the process of being built.

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“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#155 Sep 19, 2013
no-one-special wrote:
<quoted text>
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Because this Temple in spoken of in Ezekiel actually represents the House of God. Meaning.... the House of God makes up of all of those living souls who were obediant to God (or those who kept his commandments) in old testament times, and all those who believe the final permanent offering (or the lamb of God) came so that rest of humanity could be reconciled to God (the second covenant).
So much wrong with this...

1) Ezekiel was pretty specific about the dimensions of this Temple for something that will not physically exists.

2) There can be no "final" sacrifice when the sacrifices are REQUIRED as part of THANKSGIVING as well as atonement of sin, and this leads into ...

3)GROSS conceptual error regarding the so-called "Second" Covenant. The Covenant given to the children of Israel was an ETERNAL covenant, it will never be changed. What Jeremiah was referring to was the concept that once the Messiah comes, the entirety of the Torah would be written in the heart's of men so that none need ever study it again, but all will be able to perform the Law perfectly.
no-one-special wrote:
This is why you see the offerings and sacrifices being mentioned in this Temple in Ezekiel. They represent what was being done in old testament times. Also, according to the apostles, Christ is the chief cornerstone to the house of God and God is now using these other living (Jews and Gentiles) stones to complete his house (Temple) which is where God now dwells. A house not built by human hands.
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(False prophets deleted.)

No, the sacrifices are mentioned in Ezekiel for the simple reason that the Law REQUIRES that the sacrifices be performed FOR EVER.
no-one-special wrote:
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I know it's hard for you to accept this. Trust me ..it was hard for me. But I had to ask my self some questions:
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1.) why has no one recieved a commandment to carry out the sacrifices in almost 2,000 years.
Well, duh! The Temple cannot be built until the Messiah comes. That is, the REAL Messiah of prophecy; since Jesus failed to fulfill most of the Messianic prophecies, the children of Israel must wait.
no-one-special wrote:
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2.) why hasn't this Temple, where the sacrifices were carried out, been rebuilt in almost 2,000 years
See above comment.
no-one-special wrote:
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3.)Why has God allowed this particular place to be occupied by other people (Romans / Muslims) for as long as he has.
Prophecy claims that the real Messiah will drive out the foreign invaders
no-one-special wrote:
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I finally came to realization that the Almighty was trying to tell his people something.
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Yeah, or that God is dead and gone...
no-one-special

Mérida, Mexico

#156 Sep 19, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
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We need to remember the Eternal Being who ispired these Jewish men and look at these events and writings in the OT (Isaiah,Jeremiah, Ezekiel espiecially) from the perspective of Eternal Being who can see the Past, Present, and Future simultaneously. Not understanding this style of writing and how 'Time' should be viewed in these books has led many self-proclaimed prophets and Gentile Christian sects to go down the wrong road of being false prophets.

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“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#157 Sep 19, 2013
no-one-special wrote:
<quoted text>
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Again, the Temple represents the House of God in it's entirety. PAST,PRESENT,and FUTURE. This is why we also see the things described in it were things that once WERE. Has David not yet been a king over them? BTW...if this is only talking about the future like you say then you're admiting to the ressurection because King David would have to be ressurected for this to occur. Do you see what I'm saying.
The same with the Levitical priests or sacrifices. Yes, they WERE things apart of the House of God in it's entirety.
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You're going to have to read Ezekiel thinking PAST,PRESENT,and FUTURE simultaneously. Once you fully understand the NT it will make this process a lot easier.
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Well, I suppose that you COULD try to read it in a way that allows you to pretend it says something that it doesn't, or you could read to see what it actually says. See, here is your problem. You have started with a false conclusion, and are now attempting to fit everything else into that conclusion. If you read the Bible properly, starting with the Torah, you will soon realize that it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for xianity to be true.
no-one-special

Mérida, Mexico

#158 Sep 19, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
So much wrong with this...
1) Ezekiel was pretty specific about the dimensions of this Temple for something that will not physically exists.
2) There can be no "final" sacrifice when the sacrifices are REQUIRED as part of THANKSGIVING as well as atonement of sin, and this leads into ...
3)GROSS conceptual error regarding the so-called "Second" Covenant. The Covenant given to the children of Israel was an ETERNAL covenant, it will never be changed. What Jeremiah was referring to was the concept that once the Messiah comes, the entirety of the Torah would be written in the heart's of men so that none need ever study it again, but all will be able to perform the Law perfectly.
<quoted text>
(False prophets deleted.)
No, the sacrifices are mentioned in Ezekiel for the simple reason that the Law REQUIRES that the sacrifices be performed FOR EVER.
<quoted text>
Well, duh! The Temple cannot be built until the Messiah comes. That is, the REAL Messiah of prophecy; since Jesus failed to fulfill most of the Messianic prophecies, the children of Israel must wait.
<quoted text>
See above comment.
<quoted text>
Prophecy claims that the real Messiah will drive out the foreign invaders
<quoted text>
Yeah, or that God is dead and gone...
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Says who? A self-proclaimed God hater like yourself. Yeah, you aren't biased are you? Go back to your escapest movies. Isn't that where you said you get your comfort from. Alien movies preparing you to recieve the man of lawlessness? Why should we believe anything you say?

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“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#159 Sep 19, 2013
no-one-special wrote:
<quoted text>
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Says who? A self-proclaimed God hater like yourself. Yeah, you aren't biased are you? Go back to your escapest movies. Isn't that where you said you get your comfort from. Alien movies preparing you to recieve the man of lawlessness? Why should we believe anything you say?
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Hmm, perhaps you should believe it because it is exactly what the Bible says. Or you can reject the Bible. Those are your choices.
lol

Welch, WV

#160 Sep 19, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
What can I do in secret if My God's eyes are everywhere? See I can hide it from your god because your god doesnt know everything lol.
Why dont I do it? I just explained to you lol. I'll do it again though....
Deuteronomy 12
13 Be careful not to sacrifice your burnt offerings anywhere you please. 14 Offer them only at the place the Lord will choose in one of your tribes, and there observe everything I command you.
Well as you can see, I cannot just choose where to offer a sacrifice. therefore I cannot do it. But it does say that God Almighty would choose a place where sacrifice would be offered. Back in the days this was the temple but of course that is not here. It will be hopefully in my lifetime though.
That is speaking to the ancient Israelites. Are you an ancient Israelite?
lol

Welch, WV

#161 Sep 19, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmm, perhaps you should believe it because it is exactly what the Bible says. Or you can reject the Bible. Those are your choices.
You don't know enough about the bible to reject it.

From Ezekiel 41 on it is speaking of the Millennial Temple.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/r...

There is overwhelming scriptural evidence predicting a Temple during the Millennial Kingdom on earth (Isa. Isa. 2:3; Isa. 56:6-7; Isa. 60:13; Eze. Eze. 40:1-Eze. 47:1; Dan. Dan. 9:24; Joel Joel 3:18; Hag. Hag. 2:7-9; Zec. Zec. 6:12-15; Zec. 8:20-23). Most interpreters do not deny these passages. However, most spiritualize them because they are unable to reconcile a future earthly kingdom, complete with Temple, with a theology which believes that the Church has replaced Israel as the “New Israel” and that the spiritual Temple of the Believer has forever replaced any need for a physical Temple. Even though the level of detail given concerning the Temple (Eze. Eze. 40:1-Eze. 47:1) is impossible to explain allegorically or to reliably attach spiritual significance to, most commentators attempt to do just this. They reject the Golden Rule of Interpretation in favor of a completely spiritual/figurative interpretation. This inability to accept the statements of Scripture concerning the details of the Millennial Temple has led to a variety of interpretations:
no-one-special

Mérida, Mexico

#162 Sep 19, 2013
lol wrote:
<quoted text>
.
From Ezekiel 41 on it is speaking of the Millennial Temple.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/r...
There is overwhelming scriptural evidence predicting a Temple during the Millennial Kingdom on earth (Isa. Isa. 2:3; Isa. 56:6-7; Isa. 60:13; Eze. Eze. 40:1-Eze. 47:1; Dan. Dan. 9:24; Joel Joel 3:18; Hag. Hag. 2:7-9; Zec. Zec. 6:12-15; Zec. 8:20-23). Most interpreters do not deny these passages. However, most spiritualize them because they are unable to reconcile a future earthly kingdom, complete with Temple, with a theology which believes that the Church has replaced Israel as the “New Israel” and that the spiritual Temple of the Believer has forever replaced any need for a physical Temple. Even though the level of detail given concerning the Temple (Eze. Eze. 40:1-Eze. 47:1) is impossible to explain allegorically or to reliably attach spiritual significance to, most commentators attempt to do just this. They reject the Golden Rule of Interpretation in favor of a completely spiritual/figurative interpretation. This inability to accept the statements of Scripture concerning the details of the Millennial Temple has led to a variety of interpretations:
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You're another one preparing people to recieve the man of lawlessness and his third millenial reich. When he comes are you guys going to yell out, "LOOK THE CHRIST IS HERE OR THERE!" I hope not. But anyway, why are you not taking these into account. Were the apostles lying?

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----1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst?

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-----1 Peter 2:5 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

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----Ephesians 2:19-22 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a HOLY TEMPLE in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

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no-one-special

Mérida, Mexico

#163 Sep 19, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text> If you read the Bible properly, starting with the Torah, you will soon realize that it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for xianity to be true.
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I agree with you on this because christianity is what Gentiles today call Jesus' reformed version of Judaism or one Israelite fold (John 10:16) but we all know the olive tree represents Israel (Romans 11:11-28) and not a Gentile Christian sect. Gentiles have made themselves superiour to the natural branches today and say that it is they who need to save and teach Jews about what they worship (John 4:22). They don't like to read and acknowledge these either.

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----Zechariah 8:23 This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say,'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.'

----Isaiah 49:6 He says:“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

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----Luke 2:32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,and the glory of your people Israel.”

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----Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us (Jewish apostles), saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

TRYING

Morgantown, WV

#164 Sep 19, 2013
no-one-special wrote:
<quoted text>
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For one Jeremiah doesn't say a "biological son of David" ruling over the house of Israel. It's talking about a descendant of David ruling over them. While Ezekiel 37:24 is talking about King David himself ruling over them at the same time you say a literal 3rd Temple is to be rebuilt. This is only possible if you believe in the ressurection. It's either that or a biological son of David would have to of had a literal 3rd Temple built already.
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Again, the only way to understand these writings is you have to read them thinking PAST,PRESENT, FUTURE simultaneously.
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You are a Smart person! no-one- special~~~~~ I THINK IT MEANS KING DAVID will arise, but as a NEW MAN . HE may not even know HE is David, UNTIL GOD tells him,~~~~~SOMEDAY ~~~~~ And every Life David lives, HE will be a KING forever. NOT a MAN shall fail to be a KING! David wanted to Build the First Temple, BUT, GOD said NO, for HE had shed too much blood. Then GOD said I WILL BUILD DAVID A HOUSE,~~~A NEW MAN~~~~~ DAVID RESURRECTED~~~~~And thats to come. AND HE will be a KING! TRYING!
TRYING

Morgantown, WV

#165 Sep 19, 2013
Theres a lot of GOOD POSTERS here on this THREAD! Congradulations!!!
TRYING

Morgantown, WV

#166 Sep 19, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok lets restart:
I said this temple MUST come unless it was a false prophecy, Ezekiel was a false prophet, or Ezekiel was a prophet not to be feared. I dont believe any of these things to be true so the temple MUST come to pass eventually.
But you're saying that we must look at it from past, present, and future context means what exactly? And how can you ensure that what you're saying is true USING the context of EZEKIEL?
I BELIEVE THE TEMPLE will be built someday not too many years away, BUT, That will mean hatred and war. DAVID was a MAN of WAR, Maybe just what will be needed in the last days. Then the question is, HOW will the ANTI-Christ sit there . And DECEIVE the People I can't see David Building the Temple and Giving it up to the Anti- Christ, to rule there.
Flygerian

Chickasha, OK

#167 Sep 19, 2013
lol wrote:
<quoted text>
That is speaking to the ancient Israelites. Are you an ancient Israelite?
Show me where it says it was just for "ancient" Israelites
Flygerian

Chickasha, OK

#168 Sep 19, 2013
TRYING wrote:
<quoted text> I BELIEVE THE TEMPLE will be built someday not too many years away, BUT, That will mean hatred and war. DAVID was a MAN of WAR, Maybe just what will be needed in the last days. Then the question is, HOW will the ANTI-Christ sit there . And DECEIVE the People I can't see David Building the Temple and Giving it up to the Anti- Christ, to rule there.
What you're referring to has already happened. Muslims worship a rock where the temple used to be. In other words, the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel

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