Human Sacrifice... right or wrong?
Flygerian

United States

#65 Mar 29, 2013
Thinking wrote:
If you're right, your god is a total bastard.
<quoted text>
How can He be a bastard if He doesnt have parents?
Flygerian

United States

#66 Mar 29, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
Good and Evil were not created by the same source.
God created good.
God created The Good All; cosmos, earth, plants, fishys, etc;etc;.
God also created angels and some angels decided to oppose God's will, this is the creation of Evil.
God did not create Evil, those who oppose God create Evil.
Asked, Answered, Solved...Truth ROx.... Locked-in-the-Box.
Why did The Eternal send an evil spirit to Saul?
Cisco Kid

Sonora, CA

#68 Mar 29, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did The Eternal send an evil spirit to Saul?
Where do you find that?
Saul failed to obey God, that is evil.
He sent the Kenites home and spared the Amalekites, contrary to God's direction.
Cisco Kid

Sonora, CA

#70 Mar 29, 2013
Black Mormon Pope wrote:
<quoted text>So, please give us one example of a ritualistic human sacrifice to God. If God had wanted Abraham to sacrifice his son, then it would have been done. It was not done, because only God Himself was an adequate sacrifice and as we now know, He could not be killed. So, if He was not killed, then how could it be murder.

Is death murder?
No, but abortion by evil heathen females is murder.
I agree with your final sentences.
Killing an unborn baby is murder and a violation of civil rights.

Many 'Pro-Choice" advocates will scream for 'their civil rights'.
BUT!>>> When you deny a human being the 'Right to Life', you've made all other Civil Liberties null and void.
Flygerian

United States

#71 Mar 29, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do you find that?
Saul failed to obey God, that is evil.
He sent the Kenites home and spared the Amalekites, contrary to God's direction.
1st Samuel 14
"But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#72 Mar 29, 2013
Black Mormon Pope wrote:
<quoted text>Too late, your head already fell off. Let us be clear, a human life, a fetus, has more value than an adult who has chosen satan, you.
IN the space of eternity, what difference does it matter if you live 20 years of 80 years,m when you have chosen an eternity in "hell".
Why do you believe that the crazy rantings of a fundie like you have any effect on me other than to wonder how you got to be so crazy? GFY!

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#73 Mar 29, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Reality and recent history.
<quoted text>
It is healthy that fellow Americans should have a modicum of fearful respect for their neighbors.
That breeds the security of peace.
But whenever the proverbial feces hits the rotating oscillator, we always rally side by side.
We are Americans.
In reality, Americans don't have to fear death from their neighbor, unless they are invasive thugs or are living in some democrat run city with a high rate of unchecked gang activity. Those cases are more likely to find you shot by someone that looks like your brother.
Out West, other than the uberliberal coastal-crescent, we assume everybody is armed so it's really quite civil.
Or Final.......
Yeah right, and what good did a modicum of fearful respect for their neighbours do for the unfortunate children of Newtowm primary school in Connecticut? I see nothing civil about a society that feels everyone needs to be armed. People only carry arms because of fear. I have already asked my American cousins in earlier posts why it is that on my side of the pond that a massive majority of people do not own, do not want to own, and feel absolutely no need to own a weapon. To date they haven't told me why they think that is. What about you, do you have any idea why that is?
Big Al

Grand Rapids, MN

#74 Mar 30, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
That is ANIMAL sacrifice was it not?
Yes,“blood sacrifice” the killing of a living creature for the purpose of appeasing the anger of a god for offenses (sins) committed against that god.

The type of animal sacrificed would be an indication of the perceived degree of seriousness of the offense (sin) and the degree of contrition felt for that offense (sin). The sacrifice of vermin like a rat or a mouse would not be much of a sacrifice but a highly prized lamb or calf would demonstrate a high degree of contrition and understanding of the seriousness of the offense.

Of course the ultimate “blood sacrifice” would be a human sacrifice. Abraham’s “God” could have no question about his sincerity if he was willing to offer his own son as a "blood sacrifice".
Thinking

Barnsley, UK

#75 Mar 30, 2013
Yours is a great argument for voluntary euthanasia but not for explaining why your god allows miscarriages, cot death and childhood leukaemia.
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
You know?
I've encountered some good folks living lives that I considered an absolute hell.
Good folks with tough additional burdens to go through life with.
My first thoughts were that an early departure might be a blessing.
But that was just an exposure of my spiritual ignorance.
Because after talking with them, I found they appreciated life with more gusto than I.
At that,...I had to reconsider my attitudes.
Many times I ponder that quality of life trumps quantity of life.
Thinking

Barnsley, UK

#76 Mar 30, 2013
As it's easter, I thought I'd be respectful and not call your god a total f**king c**t.
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
How can He be a bastard if He doesnt have parents?
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#77 Mar 30, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. So what is the translation for "hasatan" in english? Is it not Satan or the Satan? If so why are you telling me that I do not know what Satan is?

I understand that it was an angel that asked for the power to tempt Job. What I dont understand is why you're acting like YOUR interpretation of the tale is fact. What I mean is show from the text how God Almighty doubted Job? Because what I and OTHERS see is that He said "Job is an upright man.... etc" each time Satan came to Him. How is that doubt?
2 Life can be sh/tty dont you think? Thats the point of the story imo.
I already gave you the translation, and meaning. It means "the adversary" (its not a name) and means in the terminology of the times and culture of the original story is something akin to a court adviser, someone who counter-argues with the Leader/judge/power-broker.

What need did God have to prove to one of his advisers that Job was upright? What did God care that THE hasatan (note the THE) was questioning God on this matter?

I'll tell you, God had actual doubts, as he's an insecure Being who is obsessed with being worshiped and cares little for his creations, as they are only there to stroke his already bloated ego.

But answer me this Q. Why did God care to prove to a court attendant that Job was upright..?

The one with doubt is clearly this God, not the hasatan. He doubts his own words, and clearly has no omniscience...
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#78 Mar 30, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a difference between murder and killing right?

Abraham wasnt just "listening" to voices in his head. Well unless he "imagined" God Almighty coming to him as well lol
Not to the victim.

Believers in almighty Beings always like to split hairs over the term. Murder and killing of humans are all equal. When the state executes a criminal - its murder. Its revenge killing by proxy.

We humans only "kill" in cases of pure self-defense. We don't murder animals, unless we do it for sport only.

Believers have to split the hairs - because historically its typically Believers who are obsessed with murdering those they don't like, and justifying it Religiously. Believers NEED to find an escape hatch for their desire to wage wars (for their Gods) and/or kill their religious opponents.

I find it laughable that the Bible is sacrosanct to you but you (claim) are NOT a Xtian? Come on...come clean, you defend the Xtian POV like a Xtian. Your "Eternal" is apparently the same as the Xtian God and you seek to defend the Biblical accounts of him, as well as the teachings derived from it.

Yes, Abe was listening to a voice/s in his head...that's all any Believer has ever done. So until there's a metric to prove a God spoke to anyone at any time...its "voices in ones head."

Clearly Abe had serious faith issues and his brain came up with this "test" - thankfully the rational part broke thru at the end and stopped his heinous act. Sometimes that works, sometimes not.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#79 Mar 30, 2013
Thinking wrote:
As it's easter, I thought I'd be respectful and not call your god a total f**king c**t.
<quoted text>
Don't kow-tow to this absurd "holiday"!

Zombies never make good role models, or spiritual teachers.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#80 Mar 30, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. So what is the translation for "hasatan" in english? Is it not Satan or the Satan? If so why are you telling me that I do not know what Satan is? I understand that it was an angel that asked for the power to tempt Job. What I dont understand is why you're acting like YOUR interpretation of the tale is fact. What I mean is show from the text how God Almighty doubted Job? Because what I and OTHERS see is that He said "Job is an upright man.... etc" each time Satan came to Him. How is that doubt?
2 Life can be sh/tty dont you think? Thats the point of the story imo.
If a "friend" came to you and said your wife, romantic partner was a slut, would you grant them power to tempt her? Would you say, "No way, I dont believe you, but okay, go out and seduce her, and maybe get a few others involved and really work her over, go to extraordinary lengths...and make sure you film all of it."

Why would you care to prove to this "friend" she was not? Knowing full well she was not a slut.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#81 Mar 30, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Im not a christian lol
2. You cannot just randomly use analogies. They have to be in context of what God is
3. My analogy was not poor. God Almighty gave you life, the parents gave the child a car. God Almighty gave life for a purpose. The parents gave the car for a purpose. You didnt live life according to the purpose intended. The child didnt use the car according to the purpose intended.
So here the parent could take the car back right? If so, then why do you question when God Almighty takes the life of a person?
1. hard to believe, very hard.

2. I'm not. But when You use them, in the manner you have, that means I can too. And I guarantee you mine will be better than yours.

"context of what God is." And what would that be exactly?(key term; exactly.)

3. Because a car is never equal to someones life.

Children are not gifted, or granted life by the parents. Most parents dont procreate for the purpose of creating another life, but mostly to fulfill their own selfish reasons.

A car is a tool. Nothing else. Its a tool for specific purposes. A Life is not the same in any sense of what we humans think about Life.

If I, a parent, take back the privilege of a car, I'm not ending my child's life, I might only be inconveniencing them, if that.
More likely its an inconvenience to me, and the wife.

Taking someones life is way higher on the scale of serious things to do to someone.

The car analogy s/cks.

Q; are you a parent?
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#82 Mar 30, 2013
Punisher wrote:
The basic beliefs behind a gift rests on the important idea that its given freely without conditions.
And if not, then the conditions must be outlined in full prior to the giving. Which in a manner of speaking negates the "giftiness" of the gift.
----->>>> Does God tell the unborn of his conditions, for their life? Nope. So he shouldn't be such a prick about his own failings...which clearly humans continue to suffer for...
I see no one has addressed this point...

For your Gods quasi-gift of life to be valid, for the conditions of taking it back to be legal and moral, this God MUST communicate his conditions prior to sending a "person" down the chute into their Life. Otherwise he's a liar, and a cheat.

But what is the reality? All the alleged conditions come way later...and are all man-made and are all excuses invented by men for their particular God-brand.
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#83 Mar 30, 2013
Black Mormon Pope wrote:
<quoted text>Too late, your head already fell off. Let us be clear, a human life, a fetus, has more value than an adult who has chosen satan, you.
IN the space of eternity, what difference does it matter if you live 20 years of 80 years,m when you have chosen an eternity in "hell".
Nice load of BS.

Prove the devil. And prove the eternal hell too...
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#84 Mar 30, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with your final sentences.
Killing an unborn baby is murder and a violation of civil rights.
Maybe we should lower the voting age. And the drinking age too. And maybe allow for them to enter into contracts, and marry too...

Since when does a fetus have civil rights? Care to show that line in the Constitution?
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#85 Mar 30, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
They're both gifts. You being alive (I understand you donte believe in Him) is a gift just as the car was.

I understand parents dont "gift" life to their children lol. That was my point earlier when I said that atheists or even believers cannot ALWAYS compare God Almighty to parents. Because the parents were given life and it will be taken. Just as the child. But One has EXISTED for an ETERNITY.

There are plenty of reasons for people to believe that the Eternal Being gifted life. The simple fact that me and you have breath is because of Him. It came from Him why could He not take it back?
I'm alive due to biologic reality, nothing else. Two humans mated and voila! Nothing actually very special or miraculous about the act of procreation. All carbon based life-forms have the capability...and do it way more than we humans do.

For the sake of discussion, granting your premise of eternal existence - why does that mean, or where is it a "given" that IT has the permission to take life ? Why does eternity grant this power?

Why should the "giver of life" have the same power and/or permission to take it back? Support that POV!(and if possible without the Bible you seem to covet)

And this is where your parent analogy fails; parents do not have that permission. They may have the power (physically) but not the permission, and most sane parents KNOW it.

Either the parental analogies are all good all the time, or they are not allowed at all. You cant - like most Believers do - pick an choose the when and why. That's wholly dishonest.
Flygerian

United States

#86 Mar 30, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes,“blood sacrifice” the killing of a living creature for the purpose of appeasing the anger of a god for offenses (sins) committed against that god.
The type of animal sacrificed would be an indication of the perceived degree of seriousness of the offense (sin) and the degree of contrition felt for that offense (sin). The sacrifice of vermin like a rat or a mouse would not be much of a sacrifice but a highly prized lamb or calf would demonstrate a high degree of contrition and understanding of the seriousness of the offense.
Of course the ultimate “blood sacrifice” would be a human sacrifice. Abraham’s “God” could have no question about his sincerity if he was willing to offer his own son as a "blood sacrifice".
I hope you dont eat meat lol. Because if you have a problem with blood sacrifice surely you have a problem with people that eat meat right? Because its one in the same (speaking of animal not human)

And no do not say "of course Abraham's God could have no question...." If you're not going to show where God Almighty required a human to be killed for His appeasement (meaning sacrifice) then you are standing on water lol

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