Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#44 Mar 28, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Did God not command people to kill others, either for their (those killed) sins, or for the benefits of themselves?(Jews)
He wanted Abe to kill - thereby telling him to disobey the first order (commandment) without ever telling him the commandment (or the punishment) was being waived. Why didnt Abe ask God, "Uh...God...what about your commandment not to kill? Am I getting a pass on that one?"
But good old Abe was willing; and why? Because Abe was a sick f/ck. Who heard voices telling him to kill his son for his God.
And you think that was a way cool thing to do.
There is a difference between murder and killing right?

Abraham wasnt just "listening" to voices in his head. Well unless he "imagined" God Almighty coming to him as well lol
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#45 Mar 28, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
1. NO apparently you dont. Cause it wasn't Satan IN the story of JOB! Thats a much later Xtian spin, that you a non-xtian are relying on. Despite the last 5 letters of the word Hasatan - "he's" not the Satan character of later. BTW, hasatan is NOT a name, but a description (the adversary) of that characters role in this Gods court. He was the guy who said, "No" - when the rest of the sycophants said, "Yes." A consigliere perhaps...?
If you'd read the story, you'd know the reality of the tale. After God was all gushy about Job, the Hasatan tweaked God to doubt it, and asked for permission to test Job, and God, said, "sure, go right ahead." And each time, God allowed the Hasatan to up the ante, because apparently God thought Job would fail...not that he thought he wouldn't.
Clearly Gods omniscience was not working in this case...
2. Yeah, its just a weird way to teach a lesson. When you put it in the context of the time and culture it sort of makes sense...the Jews rely on a lot of really sh/tty, depressing stories about misery being inflicted on them to teach their kids. The notion of joy seemed to escape them for the most part...
1. So what is the translation for "hasatan" in english? Is it not Satan or the Satan? If so why are you telling me that I do not know what Satan is? I understand that it was an angel that asked for the power to tempt Job. What I dont understand is why you're acting like YOUR interpretation of the tale is fact. What I mean is show from the text how God Almighty doubted Job? Because what I and OTHERS see is that He said "Job is an upright man.... etc" each time Satan came to Him. How is that doubt?
2 Life can be sh/tty dont you think? Thats the point of the story imo.
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#46 Mar 28, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
How in the world can you equate (make equal) a the gift of a car to life? Its a lousy analogy. A car isn't Life.
Parents don't "gift life" to their children. In fact many dont even plan them...so its hardly a gift. And as already stated, parents cant take the lives of their children. Legally, morally, ethically, etc, etc, outside of a very narrow parameter like their own lives being seriously threatened.
And there's no reason for anyone to truly believe that this "Eternal Being" gifts life to any creature at any time.
They're both gifts. You being alive (I understand you donte believe in Him) is a gift just as the car was.

I understand parents dont "gift" life to their children lol. That was my point earlier when I said that atheists or even believers cannot ALWAYS compare God Almighty to parents. Because the parents were given life and it will be taken. Just as the child. But One has EXISTED for an ETERNITY.

There are plenty of reasons for people to believe that the Eternal Being gifted life. The simple fact that me and you have breath is because of Him. It came from Him why could He not take it back?
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#47 Mar 28, 2013
Punisher wrote:
The basic beliefs behind a gift rests on the important idea that its given freely without conditions.
And if not, then the conditions must be outlined in full prior to the giving. Which in a manner of speaking negates the "giftiness" of the gift.
Does God tell the unborn of his conditions, for their life? Nope. So he shouldn't be such a prick about his own failings...which clearly humans continue to suffer for...
Since when do gifts have to be given without conditions? And He doesnt have to do it the way YOU or I say lol
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#48 Mar 28, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
But God stayed Abes hand! Which means he wanted it that way. So who's to blame for your (insulting) theory?
BTW; pretty much all Muslim Arabs consider Ish'y their ancestor...not just the Palestinians.
For a person with such a puffed up impression of their self, one would think your reading comprehension would be more finely tuned.
Reread my post 35.

The reason God stayed Abraham's hand is because Abe brought the wrong son to the sacrifice, Isaac.
God said bring your first born son.
That would be Ishmael.

If Abe had got it right, there'd be peace in the Middle-East today.

ps: Muslim Arabs is Muslim Arabs, they're either terrorists, going to be terrorists or raising terrorists.
What's the difference?

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#49 Mar 28, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Gift of Car = Gift of Life
Parents ability to take car back = The Eternal's ability to take life back
Is that easier to understand?
Comparing a car to a life shows just how messed up you are. WTF is wrong with people like you? I shake my head in disbelief so often at the mind numbing nonsense from you fundies that some day it's going to fall off!

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#50 Mar 28, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
For a person with such a puffed up impression of their self, one would think your reading comprehension would be more finely tuned.
Reread my post 35.
The reason God stayed Abraham's hand is because Abe brought the wrong son to the sacrifice, Isaac.
God said bring your first born son.
That would be Ishmael.
If Abe had got it right, there'd be peace in the Middle-East today.
ps: Muslim Arabs is Muslim Arabs, they're either terrorists, going to be terrorists or raising terrorists.
What's the difference?
That the Muslims have a a problem of terrorism within their ranks is no secret, but for you to say they are all either terrorists, going to be terrorists or raising terrorists is a very sweeping statement. What do you base such a statement on? Americans have more to fear from their own citizens as Americans murder more of their own countrymen each year than any Arab Muslim terror group!
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#51 Mar 29, 2013
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
Comparing a car to a life shows just how messed up you are. WTF is wrong with people like you? I shake my head in disbelief so often at the mind numbing nonsense from you fundies that some day it's going to fall off!
Didnt think you would answer lol adios tanto

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#52 Mar 29, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Didnt think you would answer lol adios tanto
You have already been told that your analogy is crap and if you don't understand that or what I have been saying to you, that is hardly my fault, so "adios tanto" is appropriate!
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#53 Mar 29, 2013
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
You have already been told that your analogy is crap and if you don't understand that or what I have been saying to you, that is hardly my fault, so "adios tanto" is appropriate!
Where did I say or imply that I didnt "understand" what you've been saying? The only thing I "dont understand" is why

1. You didnt answer my question
2. You didnt explain why it was crap

If you do not want to explain both of these things then leave it at that tanto
Thinking

Mirfield, UK

#54 Mar 29, 2013
Is miscarriage a god given gift?
Is cot death a god given gift?
Is childhood leukaemia a god given gift?
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Since when do gifts have to be given without conditions? And He doesnt have to do it the way YOU or I say lol
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#55 Mar 29, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Is miscarriage a god given gift?
Is cot death a god given gift?
Is childhood leukaemia a god given gift?
<quoted text>
I wouldnt call those "gifts" but YES good and evil were created by the same Source ;)
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#56 Mar 29, 2013
"Humanity has had a long fascination with blood sacrifice. In fact, it has been by no means uncommon for a child to be born into this world only to be patiently and lovingly reared by religious maniacs, who believe that the best way to keep the sun on its course or to ensure a rich harvest is to lead him by tender hand into a field or to a mountaintop and bury, butcher, or burn him alive as offering to an invisible God. The notion that Jesus Christ died for our sins and that his death constitutes a successful propitiation [appeasement] of a ‘loving’ God is a direct and undisguised inheritance of the superstitious bloodletting that has plagued bewildered people throughout history."-- Sam Harris' Letter to a Christian Nation.
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#57 Mar 29, 2013
Big Al wrote:
"Humanity has had a long fascination with blood sacrifice. In fact, it has been by no means uncommon for a child to be born into this world only to be patiently and lovingly reared by religious maniacs, who believe that the best way to keep the sun on its course or to ensure a rich harvest is to lead him by tender hand into a field or to a mountaintop and bury, butcher, or burn him alive as offering to an invisible God. The notion that Jesus Christ died for our sins and that his death constitutes a successful propitiation [appeasement] of a ‘loving’ God is a direct and undisguised inheritance of the superstitious bloodletting that has plagued bewildered people throughout history."-- Sam Harris' Letter to a Christian Nation.
Well I would like you to point me into the direction of where the God of Abraham (He can be read about in the OT not NT) instituted a sacrifice of a human for forgiveness of sins?
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#58 Mar 29, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Well I would like you to point me into the direction of where the God of Abraham (He can be read about in the OT not NT) instituted a sacrifice of a human for forgiveness of sins?
There are many passages in the Old Testament speaking of “blood sacrifice” as appeasement for sin.

“Anyone who cannot afford a lamb is to bring two doves or two young pigeons to the Lord as a penalty for their sin—one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. They are to bring them to the priest, who shall first offer the one for the sin offering. He is to wring its head from its neck, not dividing it completely, and is to splash some of the blood of the sin offering against the side of the altar; the rest of the blood must be drained out at the base of the altar.”- Leviticus 5-7

As Mr. Harris pointed out the crucifixion of Jesus for modern day Christians represents a “blood sacrifice” as an appeasement to “God” in the same sense that the “blood sacrifice” of a lamb or a dove represented an appeasement to “God” for sin in the Old Testament.
Thinking

Mirfield, UK

#59 Mar 29, 2013
If you're right, your god is a total bastard.
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldnt call those "gifts" but YES good and evil were created by the same Source ;)
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#60 Mar 29, 2013
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
That the Muslims have a a problem of terrorism within their ranks is no secret, but for you to say they are all either terrorists, going to be terrorists or raising terrorists is a very sweeping statement.
What do you base such a statement on?
Reality and recent history.
par five wrote:
Americans have more to fear from their own citizens as Americans murder more of their own countrymen each year than any Arab Muslim terror group!
It is healthy that fellow Americans should have a modicum of fearful respect for their neighbors.
That breeds the security of peace.

But whenever the proverbial feces hits the rotating oscillator, we always rally side by side.
We are Americans.

In reality, Americans don't have to fear death from their neighbor, unless they are invasive thugs or are living in some democrat run city with a high rate of unchecked gang activity. Those cases are more likely to find you shot by someone that looks like your brother.

Out West, other than the uberliberal coastal-crescent, we assume everybody is armed so it's really quite civil.
Or Final.......
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#61 Mar 29, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Is miscarriage a god given gift?
Is cot death a god given gift?
Is childhood leukaemia a god given gift?
<quoted text>
You know?
I've encountered some good folks living lives that I considered an absolute hell.
Good folks with tough additional burdens to go through life with.

My first thoughts were that an early departure might be a blessing.
But that was just an exposure of my spiritual ignorance.

Because after talking with them, I found they appreciated life with more gusto than I.
At that,...I had to reconsider my attitudes.

Many times I ponder that quality of life trumps quantity of life.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#62 Mar 29, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldnt call those "gifts" but YES good and evil were created by the same Source ;)
No.

Good and Evil were not created by the same source.
God created good.
God created The Good All; cosmos, earth, plants, fishys, etc;etc;.

God also created angels and some angels decided to oppose God's will, this is the creation of Evil.

God did not create Evil, those who oppose God create Evil.

Asked, Answered, Solved...Truth ROx.... Locked-in-the-Box.
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#64 Mar 29, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many passages in the Old Testament speaking of “blood sacrifice” as appeasement for sin.
“Anyone who cannot afford a lamb is to bring two doves or two young pigeons to the Lord as a penalty for their sin—one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. They are to bring them to the priest, who shall first offer the one for the sin offering. He is to wring its head from its neck, not dividing it completely, and is to splash some of the blood of the sin offering against the side of the altar; the rest of the blood must be drained out at the base of the altar.”- Leviticus 5-7
As Mr. Harris pointed out the crucifixion of Jesus for modern day Christians represents a “blood sacrifice” as an appeasement to “God” in the same sense that the “blood sacrifice” of a lamb or a dove represented an appeasement to “God” for sin in the Old Testament.
That is ANIMAL sacrifice was it not?

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