Human Sacrifice... right or wrong?

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#497 May 7, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
I think human sacrifice is warranted in one case: fundamentalist religious nuts.
The world would be a better place without them. They hate it here anyway and they want to be with their Maker.
I say let's expedite their journey...:)
I agree, all three of the Abrahamic cults should be wiped out and then there would be peace and prosperity for all
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#498 May 7, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
So god killed the first born because they were guilty of enslaving the jews not their parents?
No for this reason.

Exodus 1
15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, 16 “When you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live.”

AND THIS

Then Pharaoh gave this order to all his people:“Every Hebrew boy that is born you must throw into the Nile, but let every girl live.”

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#499 May 7, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
No for this reason.
Exodus 1
15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, 16 “When you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live.”
AND THIS
Then Pharaoh gave this order to all his people:“Every Hebrew boy that is born you must throw into the Nile, but let every girl live.”
The claim was that God killed only the people who were guilty.

A 1 day old Egyptian baby boy born to a poor Egyptian family has NEVER done anything to harm the Jews nor ever would.

Still, God murders this child for no reason.

In fact, God murders this child because God has required the Pharaoh to NOT let the Jews go.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#500 May 7, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
The claim was that God killed only the people who were guilty.
A 1 day old Egyptian baby boy born to a poor Egyptian family has NEVER done anything to harm the Jews nor ever would.
Still, God murders this child for no reason.
In fact, God murders this child because God has required the Pharaoh to NOT let the Jews go.
They were punished because of the parents. Such as if you killed someone's child and instead of PUTTING YOU to death your child is put to death so you could feel EXACTLY what you put the other parent(s) thru.
JJJ

Surry Hills, Australia

#501 May 7, 2013
The way that your god should act is not according to my opinion but according to the very laws and standards that are written in the bible, supposedly by him the OT god.

You keep accusing me of going over the same issue but it's because you won't give a rational answer to my question. So one last time and if not for you then anyone who may be reading and let the reader discern.

If your god exists as the OT describes him then you must agree with me that it is possible for him to fix the world's problems and make the earth and human society a paradise....

And so my question to you has been and still is.... why doesn't he?

So I'm asking you... if your god is rational, loving, kind etc why does he delay... why does he turn a deaf ear to the prayers of a mother praying for her dying child? Why does he allow evil to exist when he can prevent it...

And your answer every time is ....

'BECAUSE HE IS GOD AND CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS TO'

A child's answer.

But if we are having an intelligent philosophical spiritual discussion then that answer does not hold up.

I've even given you simple analogies and you won't answer one and why? Because you know they are leading... that they will paint you into a corner that they will expose the gross ignorance and stupidity of faith of this biblical god....

I appreciate I've presented this analogy to the Garden of Eden story already but you completely ignored it so I'll present it again.... and if you choose to ignore my questions at the end of yet again fine......

so be it but if you won't give me a rational plausible answer then I implore, please is there anyone that can reconcile logic, love and justice in regard to the following story.
JJJ

Surry Hills, Australia

#502 May 7, 2013
Okay Fly, you are a powerful patriarch of a large estate and have many children (or at least in time will have. We'll call you Jah.

You allow a friend and a colleague named Satan, you call him Stan for short, to come and stay at your estate and in time sadly you discover that using deceit and his far superior intellect to that of your children he has induced two of them called Adam & Eve to commit an act that is going to cause them the loss of their lives.

When you approach Stan about this issue not only does he confess to his guilt but he informs you that he is going to make it his life's mission to attempt to mislead all your children into committing deeds that will cause them suffering and death.

Now this act that Adam & Eve have committed, was not premeditated evil, they have not harmed anyone, they have simply disobeyed you, their parent as many children do and for this you are going to punish them with death.

But not immediately, no it will be a slow lingering death over the next 930 years. You will banish them from their home and abandon them to the wildness where they will have toil in extreme hardship just to eke out a living.

You know they are deeply sorry for this one act of disobedience, their first mistake that they have ever made. You know that they love and accept their punishment and even though you can stop this punishment because (
Flygerian wrote:
<God CAN do as He pleases right?
.. you don't. Instead you choose to sit back and watch them die.

Now what of Stan and his threat to harm and cause the death of all of your children. Do you punish him as quickly and severely as you have Adam & Eve? No, not at all.

In fact you have decided to give him access to almost unlimited resources to put him in an even stronger position to carry out his threat and for what purpose?

You wish to sit back and watch him cause needless harm suffering to all your children that I profess to love simply to see how they will respond and you intend to then judge them and punish or reward them based on how they respond to Stan's machinations.
JJJ

Surry Hills, Australia

#503 May 7, 2013
Anyway after some time passes you meet Stan in the garden and you say..... "I see you've got your eye on my son Job. He's a great kid, he loves me he's loyal you'll never get him to go along with your evil ways" And Stan replies....

"Yeah well of course he's your golden hair boy. Look how you look after him. He's wealthy, you've blessed him with ten children, grandchildren for you so of course he's going to be loyal. Take that all away from him and I bet he'll curse you to your face"

"You think that's why he loves me?",then you go on to say....." Okay do your best, take whatever he has but don't you dare touch him". And so off goes Stan, having received your permission to do so he runs of Job's livestock, causes the death of his ten children (murder).

Now the important point to remember here is this.... although Job does not understand WHY you allowing these terrible things to happen to him.....he does understand that you can if you want to prevent them after all (
Flygerian wrote:
<God CAN do as He pleases right?
..

So next time you run into Stan you rub it in his face... "See I allowed you to take all Job's possessions, I allowed you to murder his children, my grandchildren and he still loves me"

Stan concedes the point but challenges that if you allow him to attack Job's person it will be a different story and so again you give permission for Stan to attack Job, your loyal son that loves you.

And what is the reason that you allow all this to happen? Does the very existence of the universe depend on this test of Job? No..... it's just to settle a bet. To see who is right...
JJJ

Surry Hills, Australia

#504 May 7, 2013
Now of course the above scenario is ridiculous... absurd, if I sent it off to a publisher It would be sent straight back....

But here is what's really insane.....that people who believe in the bible including the OT, believe that the above literally happened.....

and even if you are one of the more reasonable people that although you have faith in the bible at least exercise enough intelligence to accept the above as being allegorical ........

Most of you still nothing wrong with the fact that this god that is supposed to be omnipotent and that loves us and that has our best interests at heart still allows what we perceive in the world today to be suffering and evil to continue despite the fact that he can stop it in an instant...

And when he does finally remove Stan from the scene, which is what we're waiting for right? I mean that is going to happen eventualy right?.....

what will god say when asked..... "Why did you not do this yesterday?"
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#505 May 7, 2013
JJJ wrote:
The way that your god should act is not according to my opinion but according to the very laws and standards that are written in the bible, supposedly by him the OT god.
You keep accusing me of going over the same issue but it's because you won't give a rational answer to my question. So one last time and if not for you then anyone who may be reading and let the reader discern.
If your god exists as the OT describes him then you must agree with me that it is possible for him to fix the world's problems and make the earth and human society a paradise....
No that is your opinion lol. I've already asked should He honor the father/mother He doesnt have? Should He love Himself with all His mind heart and soul? Should He not covet the goods of the neighbor He does not have? Of course NOT! These laws obviously do not apply to HIM but to the HUMANS He created.

And yes it is possible for Him to fix the problems in the world.
JJJ wrote:
And so my question to you has been and still is.... why doesn't he?
So I'm asking you... if your god is rational, loving, kind etc why does he delay... why does he turn a deaf ear to the prayers of a mother praying for her dying child? Why does he allow evil to exist when he can prevent it...
Maybe He is waiting for humans to fix it? Do you suppose that I could ask you why your mom named you whatever and you answer for her? NOPE. Unless she gave you the answer you could not answer why she named you what she did. You could SPECULATE but you couldnt give me a concrete answer. True or false?
JJJ wrote:
And your answer every time is ....
'BECAUSE HE IS GOD AND CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS TO'
A child's answer.
But if we are having an intelligent philosophical spiritual discussion then that answer does not hold up.
I've even given you simple analogies and you won't answer one and why? Because you know they are leading... that they will paint you into a corner that they will expose the gross ignorance and stupidity of faith of this biblical god....
I appreciate I've presented this analogy to the Garden of Eden story already but you completely ignored it so I'll present it again.... and if you choose to ignore my questions at the end of yet again fine......
so be it but if you won't give me a rational plausible answer then I implore, please is there anyone that can reconcile logic, love and justice in regard to the following story.
I've responded to you paragraph by paragraph. Its you that cuts up my quotes and selectively chooses what to respond to.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#506 May 7, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
They were punished because of the parents. Such as if you killed someone's child and instead of PUTTING YOU to death your child is put to death so you could feel EXACTLY what you put the other parent(s) thru.
I see. So, according to the Bible, children are property to be thrown away like garbage at the whim of the Sky Wizard.

They don't count as being "alive". They only count as belonging to parents.

Pretty much puts an end to any debate about abortion.
JJJ

Surry Hills, Australia

#507 May 7, 2013
And Fly the last question is for anyone but you.

I already know what your answer is...."Because he is god and he can do whatever he wants"

And in your mind Fly this includes, murder, war, genocide, blood sacrifice...

I mean he even took over the will of a she bear and using it ripped a bunch of kids to peices...

And what was their great crime? They were cheeky, disrespectful they called an old man who had no hair 'baldy'....

Yep your god can do whatever he wants.... if the daughter of a priest is caught prostituting herself...she is to be burnt in the fire Lev 2:19
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#508 May 7, 2013
JJJ wrote:
Okay Fly, you are a powerful patriarch of a large estate and have many children (or at least in time will have. We'll call you Jah.
You allow a friend and a colleague named Satan, you call him Stan for short, to come and stay at your estate and in time sadly you discover that using deceit and his far superior intellect to that of your children he has induced two of them called Adam & Eve to commit an act that is going to cause them the loss of their lives.
When you approach Stan about this issue not only does he confess to his guilt but he informs you that he is going to make it his life's mission to attempt to mislead all your children into committing deeds that will cause them suffering and death.
Now this act that Adam & Eve have committed, was not premeditated evil, they have not harmed anyone, they have simply disobeyed you, their parent as many children do and for this you are going to punish them with death.
But not immediately, no it will be a slow lingering death over the next 930 years. You will banish them from their home and abandon them to the wildness where they will have toil in extreme hardship just to eke out a living.
You know they are deeply sorry for this one act of disobedience, their first mistake that they have ever made. You know that they love and accept their punishment and even though you can stop this punishment because (<quoted text>.. you don't. Instead you choose to sit back and watch them die.
Now what of Stan and his threat to harm and cause the death of all of your children. Do you punish him as quickly and severely as you have Adam & Eve? No, not at all.
In fact you have decided to give him access to almost unlimited resources to put him in an even stronger position to carry out his threat and for what purpose?
You wish to sit back and watch him cause needless harm suffering to all your children that I profess to love simply to see how they will respond and you intend to then judge them and punish or reward them based on how they respond to Stan's machinations.
I went over this terrible paraphrase of the story you did. But I'll do it again. Now can you answer my questions and not just selectively answer.

1. Where in the OT (since thats where the Adam and Eve story is) does it suggest that Satan leads the world astray for years and years after Adam and Eve?

2. How was Adam and Eve "left for dead when Eve said this AFTER they were kicked out of Eden?

Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man."

Does this sound like someone that was "left for dead" as you said?

3. I'll ask again, where does the OT suggest that Satan causes people to sin and that by their reactions to Satan's tempting of them?

These are problems with the story you have presented. You added in your personal interpretations that are not located in the OT
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#509 May 7, 2013
JJJ wrote:
Anyway after some time passes you meet Stan in the garden and you say..... "I see you've got your eye on my son Job. He's a great kid, he loves me he's loyal you'll never get him to go along with your evil ways" And Stan replies....
"Yeah well of course he's your golden hair boy. Look how you look after him. He's wealthy, you've blessed him with ten children, grandchildren for you so of course he's going to be loyal. Take that all away from him and I bet he'll curse you to your face"
"You think that's why he loves me?",then you go on to say....." Okay do your best, take whatever he has but don't you dare touch him". And so off goes Stan, having received your permission to do so he runs of Job's livestock, causes the death of his ten children (murder).
Now the important point to remember here is this.... although Job does not understand WHY you allowing these terrible things to happen to him.....he does understand that you can if you want to prevent them after all (<quoted text>..
So next time you run into Stan you rub it in his face... "See I allowed you to take all Job's possessions, I allowed you to murder his children, my grandchildren and he still loves me"
Stan concedes the point but challenges that if you allow him to attack Job's person it will be a different story and so again you give permission for Stan to attack Job, your loyal son that loves you.
And what is the reason that you allow all this to happen? Does the very existence of the universe depend on this test of Job? No..... it's just to settle a bet. To see who is right...
Allegedly Job was the first book written in the bible. Therefore its doubtful that its a historical account of what happened.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#510 May 7, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
I see. So, according to the Bible, children are property to be thrown away like garbage at the whim of the Sky Wizard.
They don't count as being "alive". They only count as belonging to parents.
Pretty much puts an end to any debate about abortion.
Just as He gives life it can be taken away.*shrugs*
spandexxx

Voorhout, Netherlands

#511 May 7, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
The laws were for His people to follow. Im sure you understand that God does not need to honor a father/mother or love the Eternal God with all His heart mind and soul right?
<quoted text>
I said nothing about power. Its just common sense lol. If I create something such as a toy can someone (especially the toy) tell me what to do with it? Just answer. You're not responding to me in the same manner that I am responding to you.
<quoted text>
Yes you are more than a toy. But also yes YOU are a creation. So you have to deal with the circumstances the Creator put you in. Whether you agree with it or not.
<quoted text>
Yes. Which is why we experience happiness, sadness, love, among other feelings. In your opinion we should make God into our image of Him and just include the "happy" qualities. But sorry, He has wrath. He has anger. It was shown once its being shown again
So why do people have to love god with all their heart?
What can love or people ever contribute to an all powerful,allknowing perfect god?
If your awnser is nothing then why did god create people in the first place?If your awnser is only god knows then religion does not give any awnsers or purpose about/to human life but just creates a story around the questions of life.

Toy's have a function so what function do humans have?
You say we are more then a toy...then what would are function/purpose be?
If humans would have a function to god that would mean that god would be lacking that function and thus god would not be perfect and thus not god.
Would human life have no function/goal then human life would be pointless and worthless....a perfect god does not do pointless things does he?
You say god has and displays a primitive emotion like anger yet he is portrait as being only pure love...the 2 do not mix.
I could give you many examples about how contradictory your belief in god is but it would fall on deaf ears.
spandexxx

Voorhout, Netherlands

#512 May 7, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
I connected your post with the one you quoted. The one you quoted said it should not allow religions to hold those beliefs. I then said what does hell being believed to be real have to do with a person that believes its
I never said anyone had a monopoly of truth either ;)
I did not quote I responded.The quote is just the message on which you reply on;)
And I already responded to your hell "argument" by stating:and your statement if hell takes something away from my life because its not real to me could be easily turned back around to say that my not respecting religion does not take away anything from a believers life...i Mean its real according to them right?
And thus your argument is back in your own face.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#513 May 8, 2013
spandexxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not quote I responded.The quote is just the message on which you reply on;)
And I already responded to your hell "argument" by stating:and your statement if hell takes something away from my life because its not real to me could be easily turned back around to say that my not respecting religion does not take away anything from a believers life...i Mean its real according to them right?
And thus your argument is back in your own face.
It clearly says QUOTE = etc.... does it not? So yes you did quote him. Doesnt mean you agreed with what he said though so I shouldnt have acted as such. But thats why I made the comment.

So the whole premise of my argument is based off what he said. Why should religions be banned because they believe in a reward/punishment in the afterlife? This is what he stated should happen. Can you answer why religion should be banned on that basis? The rest of your comment I already answered in the last post. You dont want me to repeat myself do you?
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#514 May 8, 2013
spandexxx wrote:
<quoted text>
So why do people have to love god with all their heart?
What can love or people ever contribute to an all powerful,allknowing perfect god?
If your awnser is nothing then why did god create people in the first place?If your awnser is only god knows then religion does not give any awnsers or purpose about/to human life but just creates a story around the questions of life.
Toy's have a function so what function do humans have?
You say we are more then a toy...then what would are function/purpose be?
If humans would have a function to god that would mean that god would be lacking that function and thus god would not be perfect and thus not god.
Would human life have no function/goal then human life would be pointless and worthless....a perfect god does not do pointless things does he?
You say god has and displays a primitive emotion like anger yet he is portrait as being only pure love...the 2 do not mix.
I could give you many examples about how contradictory your belief in god is but it would fall on deaf ears.
Humans add nothing nor take away from God. Doesnt mean they are worthless. Is your mom worthless? The love you had for your mom? I wouldnt think so and I could go on about the good qualities of life that are not "worthless". But yes YOU and ME add NOTHING nor take away from God.

What function does a toy soldier for example have? What can it do?

Obviously you do not love God with all your heart mind and soul and maybe objectively speaking I do not either. So we do not HAVE to do anything.

Lol a "primitive" emotion. Tell me what parent wouldnt get angry at some point at their children for doing wrong. After you tell me that, go to the bible (the OT since that is the God I am speaking of) and show me where it says He is PURE love. Thats just humans trying to limit an INFINITE God to humanistic terms

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#515 May 8, 2013
Human sacrifice would be fine as long as we are burning the christians at the stake.
spandexxx

Voorhout, Netherlands

#516 May 8, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Humans add nothing nor take away from God. Doesnt mean they are worthless. Is your mom worthless? The love you had for your mom? I wouldnt think so and I could go on about the good qualities of life that are not "worthless". But yes YOU and ME add NOTHING nor take away from God.
What function does a toy soldier for example have? What can it do?
Obviously you do not love God with all your heart mind and soul and maybe objectively speaking I do not either. So we do not HAVE to do anything.
Lol a "primitive" emotion. Tell me what parent wouldnt get angry at some point at their children for doing wrong. After you tell me that, go to the bible (the OT since that is the God I am speaking of) and show me where it says He is PURE love. Thats just humans trying to limit an INFINITE God to humanistic terms
Lol See you have nothing.
You claim humans have a worth yet you can not come up with a single solid example.

It does not Surprise me that you do not think things through and use humans that are flawed and lacking as examples and try to compare that to a supposedly perfect god that does not lack anything.
A toy soldier is used to play and even learn with and even art so it has a function because humans are lacking but perfect god has no desires because he lacks nothing and so has no use for any of those things.The funny part is that you yourself then say "Thats just humans trying to limit an INFINITE God to humanistic terms"that's just hilarious :P

The only thing you do is use a lot of wordplay and provide absolutely nothing.
Your determination to believe and denial is actually funny and disturbing at the same time.

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