Human Sacrifice... right or wrong?

Human Sacrifice... right or wrong?

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JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#1 Mar 21, 2013
Who instigated the ritualistic killing of a human to appease god(s)?

Was it god or man? An important question when we acknowledge that human sacrifice is murder. Even the ransom sacrifice was an act of murder.

So was it man or god that instigated the act?

Surely we would not contend that it was god who instigated this evil ritualistic act of murder that was practiced in ignorant times.

Then again the bible tells us that god asked Abraham to commit the act and what's more we read about it and accept it as a positive act, we praise Abe's willingness to murder his own son just to prove his love and loyalty toward god (strange when the psalms tells us that god knows us before we are even embryos don't you think)..

The point is if we read about and accept that it was a righteous thing that god requested and that Abe was willing to do... then no doubt Abraham's contemporaries could have begun to emulate Abraham.. after all is this not what god wants?

On the other hand if you say that it was man that first committed murder calling it 'sacrifice' then I'm left trying to reconcile why god would adopt such a wicked evil ritual as the means to forgive our so called 'sins'.

Sure you can tell me life was lost when Adam sinned and only another life paid as a ransom can redeem sinful man...... but paid to who? Who demanded the ransom?

Is not the ransom paid to god? And if that is so then I have to accept that it was indeed god that has demanded that a human life be sacrificed, that he demanded that an act of murder had to be committed before he will consent to forgive sinful man...

You cannot reconcile this. I know I will be presented with all sorts of technical and scriptural reasoning why I am wrong.....

But be honest, if the above was discussing another faith, the Hindu, Buddhist, Islam or any faith so long as it is notChristianity...

Everyone would agree hands down that murdering a human and calling it a 'ransom sacrifice' to appease a god....... is just wrong...
IamHim

United States

#2 Mar 21, 2013
JJJ wrote:
Who instigated the ritualistic killing of a human to appease god(s)?
Was it god or man? An important question when we acknowledge that human sacrifice is murder. Even the ransom sacrifice was an act of murder.
So was it man or god that instigated the act?
Surely we would not contend that it was god who instigated this evil ritualistic act of murder that was practiced in ignorant times.
Then again the bible tells us that god asked Abraham to commit the act and what's more we read about it and accept it as a positive act, we praise Abe's willingness to murder his own son just to prove his love and loyalty toward god (strange when the psalms tells us that god knows us before we are even embryos don't you think)..
The point is if we read about and accept that it was a righteous thing that god requested and that Abe was willing to do... then no doubt Abraham's contemporaries could have begun to emulate Abraham.. after all is this not what god wants?
If God Almighty wanted sacrifice dont you think He would have had Abraham go thru with it? Dont you think He wouldnt have got mad at Cain for killing Abel?
JJJ wrote:
On the other hand if you say that it was man that first committed murder calling it 'sacrifice' then I'm left trying to reconcile why god would adopt such a wicked evil ritual as the means to forgive our so called 'sins'.
Sure you can tell me life was lost when Adam sinned and only another life paid as a ransom can redeem sinful man...... but paid to who? Who demanded the ransom?
Is not the ransom paid to god? And if that is so then I have to accept that it was indeed god that has demanded that a human life be sacrificed, that he demanded that an act of murder had to be committed before he will consent to forgive sinful man...
You cannot reconcile this. I know I will be presented with all sorts of technical and scriptural reasoning why I am wrong.....
But be honest, if the above was discussing another faith, the Hindu, Buddhist, Islam or any faith so long as it is notChristianity...
Everyone would agree hands down that murdering a human and calling it a 'ransom sacrifice' to appease a god....... is just wrong...
Well in the bible Moses tried to atone for the sins of Israel when they built the golden calf

31 So Moses went back to the Lord and said,“Oh, what a great sin these people have committed! They have made themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”

33 The Lord replied to Moses,“Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.

This tells us that christianity has it wrong when they say that a man died for their sins. Or anyone for that matter
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#3 Mar 26, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
If God Almighty wanted sacrifice dont you think He would have had Abraham go thru with it? Dont you think He wouldnt have got mad at Cain for killing Abel?
<quoted text>matter
So you feel stopping Abraham at the last minute makes it okay?

Do you have a son, and then a grandson?

Could you think of any scenario where you would ask your son to harm his son, your grandson as a test of his loyalty.....

Do you truly believe that as long as you never meant to see the deed through to action that that would make it okay?

The thing you are missing here, in fact almost all christians miss is that in this incident....

Abraham did not know beyond faith that god would stop him. That means that no matter what he believed he was prepared to murder (sacrifice) his son...

So I still come back to the fact that why would god even think such an evil thing, especially when in another part of the bible when it talks about the Caanites sacrficing children the bible says...

'Such a thing had never even entered th mind of god'....

Well apparently, at least in conection with Isaac, such a thing had entered the mind of god.

Yes he was an adult but he was still Abraham's child
Flygerian

United States

#4 Mar 26, 2013
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
So you feel stopping Abraham at the last minute makes it okay?
Whether He stopped Abraham or not it is okay. I mean if this God is the same God that ALL LIFE permeates from. Why can He not give and take with whats His?
JJJ wrote:
Do you have a son, and then a grandson?
Could you think of any scenario where you would ask your son to harm his son, your grandson as a test of his loyalty.....
Do you truly believe that as long as you never meant to see the deed through to action that that would make it okay?
I am a human. I was given life. Life was not mine to give or take so its different in your analogy dont you think?
JJJ wrote:
The thing you are missing here, in fact almost all christians miss is that in this incident....
Abraham did not know beyond faith that god would stop him. That means that no matter what he believed he was prepared to murder (sacrifice) his son...
I didnt miss that. But it shows you where Abe's faith lied. So if you knew for SURE that God Almighty the same God that created EVERYTHING in EXISTENCE told you to sacrifice your son for Him, you would show allegiance to your son over God Almighty? If so why? Meaning why would you have more faith/love in your own son than the one that made it POSSIBLE for you to even have a son let alone life?
JJJ wrote:
So I still come back to the fact that why would god even think such an evil thing, especially when in another part of the bible when it talks about the Caanites sacrficing children the bible says...
'Such a thing had never even entered th mind of god'....
Well apparently, at least in conection with Isaac, such a thing had entered the mind of god.
Yes he was an adult but he was still Abraham's child
It doesnt matter. He never intended to let Abraham go thru with it. Thats the point. He was testing Abraham's faith and Abraham passed with what I assume to be FLYING colors. Why? Because Abraham showed that He loved God even more than his own flesh and blood. Thats what you should be getting from the story. Not that God Almighty actually wanted Abraham to sacrifice his son.
Cisco Kid

Sonora, CA

#5 Mar 26, 2013
Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"

Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"

God say, "No." Abe say, "What ?"

God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but...
The next time you see me comin' you better run"

Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin'
done ?"
God says. "Out in the Palestine sun."

(Thanks Bob.)
definitions

Las Vegas, NV

#6 Mar 26, 2013
Some say sacrifice and others say sacrifice, but the difference is enormous between the two.

God and his son, they made a sacrifice, meaning to give something up in order to accomplish something, like a fireman being hurt in a fire makes a sacrifice. And "dying for our sins" obviously doesn't mean what we think these days.

But there is the other sacrifice isn't there. That one is murder. Like killing a chicken for something in return. One girl told me that you could kill a chicken and use it's "life force" to do things. This sacrifice is murderous. And we should not even call this "sacrifice", because all that it really is is murder.

But his son was not this way, him and God made the sacrifice.

The abraham story was a metaphor, notice how "God provided the lamb", had it planned the whole time actually.
Cisco Kid

Sonora, CA

#7 Mar 26, 2013
Old Abe picked the wrong son.
God asked for the first born.

Abe coulda saved a lot of future problems by listening better.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#9 Mar 26, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Whether He stopped Abraham or not it is okay. I mean if this God is the same God that ALL LIFE permeates from. Why can He not give and take with whats His?
<quoted text>
I am a human. I was given life. Life was not mine to give or take so its different in your analogy dont you think?
<quoted text>
I didnt miss that. But it shows you where Abe's faith lied. So if you knew for SURE that God Almighty the same God that created EVERYTHING in EXISTENCE told you to sacrifice your son for Him, you would show allegiance to your son over God Almighty? If so why? Meaning why would you have more faith/love in your own son than the one that made it POSSIBLE for you to even have a son let alone life?
<quoted text>
It doesnt matter. He never intended to let Abraham go thru with it. Thats the point. He was testing Abraham's faith and Abraham passed with what I assume to be FLYING colors. Why? Because Abraham showed that He loved God even more than his own flesh and blood. Thats what you should be getting from the story. Not that God Almighty actually wanted Abraham to sacrifice his son.
If god is who the bible says that he is then I totally agree with you that he has the right to do what ever he wants...

I am not questioning his authority I'm questing his moral integrity...

I'm asking how could such a thought even enter into his consciousness?

And then when you consider the reported reason.... ie a test of Abe's love and loyalty.... then I can't think anything othe than "What the?"

The pslams tells us that god knows us before we were even embryos and yet he decides to to test Abe's loyalty anyway by asking him to murder his son?
Flygerian

United States

#10 Mar 26, 2013
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
If god is who the bible says that he is then I totally agree with you that he has the right to do what ever he wants...
I am not questioning his authority I'm questing his moral integrity...
I'm asking how could such a thought even enter into his consciousness?
And then when you consider the reported reason.... ie a test of Abe's love and loyalty.... then I can't think anything othe than "What the?"
The pslams tells us that god knows us before we were even embryos and yet he decides to to test Abe's loyalty anyway by asking him to murder his son?
How can you question His moral integrity? I dont get it lol. If He is the Creator of ALL things (He is) then how can you question His moral integrity? Honest question though it may not seem like it

Yes a test. Its no different from me "accidentally" dropping my wallet around you to see if you would steal it. A TEST to see if you're my friend or if you would take advantage of me at first chance.

Yes God Almighty knows us. But do we know ourselves? Do you think God Almighty tested Abraham for Himself to know Abraham? Not at all. In another situation do you think God Almighty allowed Satan to tempt Job so that the Almighty could understand Job's faith? Again not at all.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#11 Mar 26, 2013
I always get the same response... ie, god is god and he can do whatever he wants..

Okay I'm cool with that, well not cool with it but I understand where you are coming from. If you are big and powerful you can do whatever you want but is no that what we humans call a tyrant, a dictator...

When god was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah did not Abraham question him on it? And why... cos he thought god did not have the authority?

No he questioned the moral right of such an action in that what if there was one good person, just one then in Abe's mind and rightfully so it would be wrong for god to go ahead and destroy those cities..

And god agreed. If one good person could be found he would not proceed..

So I'm asking the same thing. This is not questioning god's authority (reported) this is question the moral principles that involved...

The fact that Christians just accept this and see no wrong in the fact that god even conceived the idea, ie Abe kill your son cos I want to test your loyalty, is one of the strongest examples of the cognitive dissonance caused by religion....

If anyone other than god asked a man to sacrifice their child.... there would not be one reason found that could justify the act.

History as judged every civilisation that practiced the act of human sacrifice as barbaric, evil and the only excuse that can be found..... they were ignorant.

And yet when god demands the same thing.... that a human life be sacrificed for forgives of sin then he falls into the exact same category...
Flygerian

United States

#12 Mar 26, 2013
JJJ wrote:
I always get the same response... ie, god is god and he can do whatever he wants..
Okay I'm cool with that, well not cool with it but I understand where you are coming from. If you are big and powerful you can do whatever you want but is no that what we humans call a tyrant, a dictator...
When god was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah did not Abraham question him on it? And why... cos he thought god did not have the authority?
No he questioned the moral right of such an action in that what if there was one good person, just one then in Abe's mind and rightfully so it would be wrong for god to go ahead and destroy those cities..
And god agreed. If one good person could be found he would not proceed..
I would say that you are not Abraham and you did not display the same level of faith (and YOU could be interchanged with ME as well just so we're clear) that Abraham did. Nonetheless Im not understanding the problem. God tested Abraham and Abraham passed. God Almighty wanted to see if there was ANYTHING that Abraham loved more than Him and Abraham showed that there wasnt.
JJJ wrote:
So I'm asking the same thing. This is not questioning god's authority (reported) this is question the moral principles that involved...
The fact that Christians just accept this and see no wrong in the fact that god even conceived the idea, ie Abe kill your son cos I want to test your loyalty, is one of the strongest examples of the cognitive dissonance caused by religion....
If anyone other than god asked a man to sacrifice their child.... there would not be one reason found that could justify the act.
History as judged every civilisation that practiced the act of human sacrifice as barbaric, evil and the only excuse that can be found..... they were ignorant.
And yet when god demands the same thing.... that a human life be sacrificed for forgives of sin then he falls into the exact same category...
The thing is you are FOOLISHLY (with all due respect lol but it is what it is) comparing the TEST of Abraham with the ACTUAL act of sacrifice. That is ridiculous and you know it.

If your parent gave you a car to drive to college and you instead went and partied do they not have the right to take the car back? Or since they gave it to you its YOURS now to do with it as you please? Of course its not yours to do as you please. On the same token that is with life. But with God Almighty as you can see many evil people live amongst us and cause even MORE evil to exist by their workings. Do you not feel that the One that gave life can take it as He pleases?

If the Creator TOLD ANYONE to kill ANYTHING/ANYONE I would fully expect that person to do so. Because the Creator is the Creator lol. What He says goes. And this is just logic dont you agree? Just as the CEO of the company can command his workers to do foolish and strange things. Either the workers follow suit or deal with the consequences right? The thing with God is, He didnt sit and watch Abraham kill his son and then say "You passed the test!". He saw Abraham was going to go thru with it, and stopped him. Clearly showing that it wasnt the sacrificial act that God Almighty wanted to see, but Abraham passing the test. He later stated that He doesnt like human sacrifice and that EACH MAN DIES FOR THEIR OWN SIN. In other words, the idea that Jesus died for everyone's sins is a LIE. Not something commanded by the God of Abraham
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#13 Mar 26, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<The thing is you are FOOLISHLY (with all due respect lol but it is what it is) comparing the TEST of Abraham with the ACTUAL act of sacrifice. That is ridiculous and you know it.
That depends.... I don't believe the incidence ever physically occurred. It is just a story, a fable, a parable and in this I do not feel the principles or the lessons being conveyed are any lessened.

But if you believe that god actually asked Abraham to do such a thing, asked with enough conviction so that Abraham was actually prepared to physically carry out the act....

Then I disagree with you. I am not being foolish. That's the whole point..

If the incidence is real, if it actually occurred in that god spoke to Abraham... then I am still left trying to morally reconcile how god even conceived such a wicked test.. forget the test....refer to human sacrifice!!!!

Do you test your children with evil, evil on any level for no other reason than to simply see how they would act? Is that what a loving parent does?

We are supposedly made in god's image. If that is so then god cannot operate outside the laws and principles that he sets for us..

For god(s) personifies the human race elevated to the highest moral state of love possible..

I am far from perfect..... but outside of writing a horror novel, I could never conceive (forget literal) such a horrible evil thing...

I could not even say one day when tossing around thougts and cahtting say..... " hey imagine if you had to ask your son to sacrifice his son..." no I could not even imagine..

It is something that would never come into my mind....

When I read the bible and I have done so several times and studied it extensively I am constantly asking myself..

Does man exist on a higher plane than god?

And then I remember... the bible god as with all gods is limited to boundaries of man's imagination, his perceptions, his morals, principles and love....because no one understands what this universal intelligence, the energy that has created all matter..

And it is then that I realise that the majority of mankind most certainly exist on a higher plane of intelligenct love than the god of the bible...

Even Jesus lived on a much higher plane than the god of the bible and for those of you that believe he is god then accept this..

He had to become a man to demonstrate the love that he did.
JJJ

Sydney, Australia

#14 Mar 26, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<If the Creator TOLD ANYONE to kill ANYTHING/ANYONE I would fully expect that person to do so. Because the Creator is the Creator lol. What He says goes. And this is just logic dont you agree? Just as the CEO of the company can command his workers to do foolish and strange things. Either the workers follow suit or deal with the consequences right?
I disagree.... I have worked for many different men and as you say many act foolish... but I have never accepted it. I quit.

But we are not talking about foolish egotistical men who foolishly think that the little power that have entitles them to be foolish..

We are discussing 'god' and accepting that 'god' reprsents different things to different people.......even the bible when referring to god has god saying "What would you have me liken myself to?

That is why I say that at the very least our god(s) would have to represent man elevated to the highest enightened state conceivable...

So we cannot compare base stupid men such as foolish bosses to the highest level of enlightement....

And quite frankly.... the god of the bible, especially YHWH, I don't even think he has found the elevator and if he has then he he has to descend to the basement to even imagine the act of human sacrifice regardless of the reason...
Flygerian

United States

#16 Mar 27, 2013
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
That depends.... I don't believe the incidence ever physically occurred. It is just a story, a fable, a parable and in this I do not feel the principles or the lessons being conveyed are any lessened.
But if you believe that god actually asked Abraham to do such a thing, asked with enough conviction so that Abraham was actually prepared to physically carry out the act....
Then I disagree with you. I am not being foolish. That's the whole point..
If the incidence is real, if it actually occurred in that god spoke to Abraham... then I am still left trying to morally reconcile how god even conceived such a wicked test.. forget the test....refer to human sacrifice!!!!
Do you test your children with evil, evil on any level for no other reason than to simply see how they would act? Is that what a loving parent does?
We are supposedly made in god's image. If that is so then god cannot operate outside the laws and principles that he sets for us..
For god(s) personifies the human race elevated to the highest moral state of love possible..
I am far from perfect..... but outside of writing a horror novel, I could never conceive (forget literal) such a horrible evil thing...
I could not even say one day when tossing around thougts and cahtting say..... " hey imagine if you had to ask your son to sacrifice his son..." no I could not even imagine..
It is something that would never come into my mind....
When I read the bible and I have done so several times and studied it extensively I am constantly asking myself..
Does man exist on a higher plane than god?
And then I remember... the bible god as with all gods is limited to boundaries of man's imagination, his perceptions, his morals, principles and love....because no one understands what this universal intelligence, the energy that has created all matter..
And it is then that I realise that the majority of mankind most certainly exist on a higher plane of intelligenct love than the god of the bible...
Even Jesus lived on a much higher plane than the god of the bible and for those of you that believe he is god then accept this..
He had to become a man to demonstrate the love that he did.
1. I'll number these so you can actually respond to my points that I say. If your parents gave you a car for a SPECIFIC purpose and you didnt use it FOR THAT PURPOSE do they have the right to take it back? Or since they gave it to you they cannot take it back so they dont "hurt your feelings"?

2. I do not have kids but I see no wrong in testing them. I see no wrong in seeing what they would do when faced with evil and correcting them if they chose to do evil. Do you? Or do you think it would be more appropriate for them to be tested with evil in an environment with no net so to say?

3. The teachings of Jesus allow evil to exist. "Do good to those that do bad to you" "If someone steals from you give them more" and such. All these things pacifies people into letting evil people not only EXIST but CONTINUE to do evil. The God of Abraham was about eliminating evil. But not himself. He left it up to Israel to do. He will come though and do it either Himself or thru one of His representatives. People are mostly soft and passive. If you call that "love" than so be it.
Flygerian

United States

#17 Mar 27, 2013
JJJ wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree.... I have worked for many different men and as you say many act foolish... but I have never accepted it. I quit.
But we are not talking about foolish egotistical men who foolishly think that the little power that have entitles them to be foolish..
My point was the CEO is the boss. You do what he says. If you dont then you suffer the consequences. You left so you suffered the consequences. The thing about the CEO is he isnt everywhere and didnt give you life. God Almighty is
JJJ wrote:
We are discussing 'god' and accepting that 'god' reprsents different things to different people.......even the bible when referring to god has god saying "What would you have me liken myself to?
That is why I say that at the very least our god(s) would have to represent man elevated to the highest enightened state conceivable...
So we cannot compare base stupid men such as foolish bosses to the highest level of enlightement....
What do you know about enlightenment? You think this refers to Jesus and buddha? They were nice and loving yes but gave others the ability to be passive. Look at the world. No one does anything about the evil that exists. And I say a lot of it (not all, probably not most either) is because of Jesus'/Buddha's teachings. Where they lead people into being passive. Thats not love. Take Moses for example. He saw an Egyptian beating an Israelite slave mercilessly. Did Moses go tap the Egyptian on the shoulder and ask him to stop? Nope. He went and KILLED the egyptian. Thats what should be happening to those that cause evil. Not loving them and allowing them to continue to do evil. THATS LOVE. Stopping others from being oppressed and cheated. Not allowing those doing these acts to continue to do so
JJJ wrote:
And quite frankly.... the god of the bible, especially YHWH, I don't even think he has found the elevator and if he has then he he has to descend to the basement to even imagine the act of human sacrifice regardless of the reason...
LMAO there are gods of other nations such as the Aztecs that commanded human sacrifice and here you are complaining about One testing His servant to see if His servant would follow thru with whatever God commanded him to. And His servant did follow thru. Look at whats said after:

Genesis 22
12 “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said.“Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”

15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said,“I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring[b] all nations on earth will be blessed,[c] because you have obeyed me.”

So because Abraham listened he would become a great nation. Why is it so bad that God would see if Abraham or you loved your son more than Him? BECAUSE YOU SAY? The one that only has morality because it was given to him?

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#18 Mar 27, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I'll number these so you can actually respond to my points that I say. If your parents gave you a car for a SPECIFIC purpose and you didnt use it FOR THAT PURPOSE do they have the right to take it back? Or since they gave it to you they cannot take it back so they dont "hurt your feelings"?
2. I do not have kids but I see no wrong in testing them. I see no wrong in seeing what they would do when faced with evil and correcting them if they chose to do evil. Do you? Or do you think it would be more appropriate for them to be tested with evil in an environment with no net so to say?
3. The teachings of Jesus allow evil to exist. "Do good to those that do bad to you" "If someone steals from you give them more" and such. All these things pacifies people into letting evil people not only EXIST but CONTINUE to do evil. The God of Abraham was about eliminating evil. But not himself. He left it up to Israel to do. He will come though and do it either Himself or thru one of His representatives. People are mostly soft and passive. If you call that "love" than so be it.
Typical fundie speak from a typical fundie. This god you worship gets a pass from you people no matter what atrocity is attributed to it in the bible. You say you have no children, well that is very obvious. You do not deliberately put temptation in front of a child to see what they would do. From an early age you should be schooling them to understand right from wrong and when they do at times get it wrong, as all children do, that is the time to correct them. Also, you do not test someones loyalty by seeing if they would be prepared to kill their own child. I have never heard such BS in all my life. According to the way you think, and I use the word think very loosely, this god of yours could rape your granny and bugger your sister and that would be just fine by you and don't say that your god would never do such terrible things, why not, they are no worse than this god slaughtering defensless babies. The bible gives accounts of a lot of slaughtering of babies by this god of yours. If someone wanted to believe in some sky fairy, then only a moron would pick the biblical god knowing and believing the atrocities it had carried out. But of course, you are a fundie!
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#19 Mar 27, 2013
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
Typical fundie speak from a typical fundie. This god you worship gets a pass from you people no matter what atrocity is attributed to it in the bible. You say you have no children, well that is very obvious. You do not deliberately put temptation in front of a child to see what they would do. From an early age you should be schooling them to understand right from wrong and when they do at times get it wrong, as all children do, that is the time to correct them. Also, you do not test someones loyalty by seeing if they would be prepared to kill their own child. I have never heard such BS in all my life. According to the way you think, and I use the word think very loosely, this god of yours could rape your granny and bugger your sister and that would be just fine by you and don't say that your god would never do such terrible things, why not, they are no worse than this god slaughtering defensless babies. The bible gives accounts of a lot of slaughtering of babies by this god of yours. If someone wanted to believe in some sky fairy, then only a moron would pick the biblical god knowing and believing the atrocities it had carried out. But of course, you are a fundie!
I'll skip over the insults and lack of civility lol Strange that you come into a convo like that with me but not surprising I guess

So I'll just ask you the same question I asked 3J:

"If your parents bought you a car so that you could go to college and you instead went and partied with it, do they have a right to take the car back? Or do they have to leave the car with you so they dont hurt your feelings?"

Im pretty sure the answer to this would be they could take your car back. But Im looking to see BOTH your and JJJ's and answer
Thinking

Barnsley, UK

#20 Mar 27, 2013
Video of god telling Abraham to sacrifice Ivan.

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#21 Mar 27, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll skip over the insults and lack of civility lol Strange that you come into a convo like that with me but not surprising I guess
So I'll just ask you the same question I asked 3J:
"If your parents bought you a car so that you could go to college and you instead went and partied with it, do they have a right to take the car back? Or do they have to leave the car with you so they dont hurt your feelings?"
Im pretty sure the answer to this would be they could take your car back. But Im looking to see BOTH your and JJJ's and answer
If my parents bought me a car, that would indeed be a miracle, they have been dead for years, but what the hell has a parent's right or otherwise to take back a car got to do with human sacrifice, or your god's penchant for killing infants. A parent has the right to chastise an errant child, but they don't have the right to kill that child, something that seemed to be the biblical god's preferred method of chastisement. I have yet to hear one fundie say that the biblical god's slaughter of children is wrong and you probably don't think it's wrong either. Surprise me!
Punisher

Bronxville, NY

#22 Mar 27, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Whether He stopped Abraham or not it is okay. I mean if this God is the same God that ALL LIFE permeates from. Why can He not give and take with whats His?.
But forcing someone to disobey his Commandments is okay with you? Sure if we play the All Powerful God game where he can do as HE pleases - he can kill as so wishes. But forcing others to do his bidding, and thereby disobeying his Commandment (with no clear offer of a pass.)...sounds to me like one more reason to acknowledge that Man invented this God. Inability to keep the lies, er...made-up story straight.

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