Why don't atheist and skeptics make a...
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#3468 Jan 5, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted tex
<quoted text> Not really. It incites me to do what i know is right..
Incites YOU? So whats the point of the faith? If you already know, just do it.

But its the fear that truly incites you. Fear of the lash. Fear of losing your spot in your Gods special club...

You do know that this point of yours contradicts most if not all of Xtian doctrine-dogma and in fact how its proselytized..? That basically people don't truly know what is right till they believe in all the nonsense...?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#3469 Jan 5, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Every time you stand on a street corner and listen to the cars passing by you experience the “Doppler Effect” also known as the “red shift’ in relation light waves. The sound waves produced by the cars as they approach you sound higher pitched than the sound of the cars moving away from you. The light waves from objects moving toward us appear as shorter light waves (blue) than light waves from objects moving away (red) from us.
Read a science book!
How do you know this happens in the rest of the universe billions of light years away? The fact is you don't. We can only assume it.

“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
&#8213; Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#3470 Jan 5, 2013
Love you Icon fairies...You INCITE me to keep on trucking. :)

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3471 Jan 5, 2013
Punisher wrote:
Aye, aye, aye...stop adding things. Read what is written.
1. Not true for all atheists. Many Atheists I know have adopted a personal POV re; the alleged existence of a soul, and its purpose, etc.
News to me. Do you have anything other than ''personal POVs?'' How about atheists arguing over the existence or non existence of a soul? Any books by atheists claiming humans are both physical and have a soul?
No one OWNS the idea, no one belief system has ownership on the concepts and philosophies surrounding the unproven, separate entity we call a soul.
What does that have to do with anything? Create a phantom?
Stop defining what YOU Know nothing about.
2. For some. Not all.
I know nothing about atheism? What is there to know?
The point is that Religions make many claims about Humans, that they reject because they gild them with all sorts of unproven supernatural nonsense. I dont care if Xtians use strict science or not - if they could only prove their claims of super beings and magic. Do it. Dont claim it, prove it.
Supernatural events are rare in human history. Besides i think my earlier responses are adequate.
What we experience is physical...no matter how you dress it up its still all physical.
That is an absolute statement. Biblical death involves three types, Spiritual, physical and secound death. Physical death means body and soul or spirit seperate.
Rights are Human made. Rights are enforced by humankind and they are altered and shifted as various cultures progress and "civilize" themselves...while some fall backwards at times.
Well if they derive from men then who is to say who is going forward and who is going backward?
Rights are still just an ehtereal concept..there is no actual subtance to them that we can hold in our hands and say, "See here, this is a right!" As we know in the US many people define "pursuit of happiness" very differently than others...there is great debate about what are rights and what are not within the parameters of the Constitution. Clearly they are not Black and White.
Basic human rights come from God and apply to all people at all times in all places. They involves both privilege and responsibility. If rights are from men then there was no real basis for the Revolution since the King was the arbiter of rights.
3. Right, but it helps many people figure their way thru all the absurd and unproven claims of Religions. If Religions say X and science can prove or disprove it...that helps many people.
Study of the natural world in fact keeps proving to me that the Religious explanations are just so weak to be off the table for consideration any longer. IMO. Sciences didnt decide my atheism, it now merely provides more support for my conclusions.
Science is by definition limited to the natural. That assumes the natural is all there is. Theists do not restrict themselves to that self confined box.
And for the love of your God
Love of God?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3472 Jan 5, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Yet we know that many people can not feel/experience shame. Or empathy, etc. They are wired not to. Physically.
What if you cheat me to teach me a lesson? Should you feel shame?
Two wrongs do not make a right.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3473 Jan 5, 2013
Punisher wrote:
But Religions still do the heavy lifting of my disbelief. What they say is what keeps my disbelief in good standing. Most especially what the current crop of American Xtians say.
What they say or how they act? Atheism has always been the minority report and fails to adequately answer the big questions. The objective truth claim which either validates or disproves Christianity is the bodily resurrection of Christ. It takes sufficient cause to effect resurrection and that sufficient cause can only be God. So if you are looking at what Christians do or say then you are looking in the wrong place. My belief does not depend on what Christians do or say exclusively. It depends on my being convinced Jesus resurrected and is therefore exclusive Savior of th world. In my experience there have been many Christians who have walked as they talked. They have earned my trust and respect.
5. No, no, no. Dont add things that are not there. What I said is that I dont HAVE TO consider these Big Q's. No one really has to, they choose to. But no one HAS TO...do you get it?
My lack of belief in your or any God/s doesnt force me to find other answers. I might seek them, but I am not forced to.
Why bother?
I dont spend my days wondering how life began...I spend them in the more parochial pursuits of normal life. My family, my work, my pleasures, my outreach, etc...how life started is irrelevant to most of our lives.
Not a big deal? LOL.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#3474 Jan 5, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know this happens in the rest of the universe billions of light years away? The fact is you don't. We can only assume it.
“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
&#8213; Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers
Since the laws of physics governing the propagation of light waves have been understood no one has ever observed an instance of light waves propagating contrary to those laws. To suggest that we don’t know whether or not light waves propagate differently “in the rest of the universe” would be just as absurd as suggesting since we’ve never been to the planet Jupiter we don’t know that Easter Bunny doesn’t live there.

“American astronomers, studying the great clusters of stars called galaxies, stumbled on evidence that the entire Universe is blowing up before our eyes. According to their observations, all the galaxies in the Universe are moving away from us and from one another at very high speeds, and the most distant are receding at the extraordinary speed of hundreds of millions of miles an hour.”- Professor Robert Jastrow

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3475 Jan 5, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Incites YOU? So whats the point of the faith? If you already know, just do it.
But its the fear that truly incites you. Fear of the lash. Fear of losing your spot in your Gods special club...
You do know that this point of yours contradicts most if not all of Xtian doctrine-dogma and in fact how its proselytized..? That basically people don't truly know what is right till they believe in all the nonsense...?
People do right things for a variety of reasaons. That is the part you ignored. Besides, if convinced there is no God then there is no real right or wrong except as circumstances dictate to do what is expedient as opposed to what is right. Pilate, for example, did what was expedient. His decision was atheistic in nature. Since he must have assumed there would be no real consequences for sending an innocent man to a terrible death. Our universal sense of right and wrong indicates we are more than just physical. There is more to life then the natural since this sense of right and wrong has no molecules.

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#3476 Jan 5, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> People do right things for a variety of reasaons. That is the part you ignored. Besides, if convinced there is no God then there is no real right or wrong except as circumstances dictate to do what is expedient as opposed to what is right. Pilate, for example, did what was expedient. His decision was atheistic in nature. Since he must have assumed there would be no real consequences for sending an innocent man to a terrible death. Our universal sense of right and wrong indicates we are more than just physical. There is more to life then the natural since this sense of right and wrong has no molecules.
You seem to be saying that Pilate condemned an innocent man because he, Pilate, did not believe in your god and therefore had no fear of having to face the consequences of such an act and that his decision was atheistic. For someone who said they know nothing about atheism, how did you arrived at that conclusion? Anyway, I'm sure that Pilate as a Roman was not an atheist and that he believed in many gods, just not your god. I can also never understand why it is that some people think they need to have a belief in a deity, in this case the Christian deity, in order to know right from wrong. If knowing your god keeps you from "sinning", where was your god, when for many many years the white Christian majority in America went along quite happily with a system that relegated the black population to that of a sub species?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3477 Jan 5, 2013
par five wrote:
You seem to be saying that Pilate condemned an innocent man because he, Pilate, did not believe in your god and therefore had no fear of having to face the consequences of such an act and that his decision was atheistic.
Yes. That is the point of my placing the Justin quote back on page 169 post 3426. If Pilate knew he would have to give account then he would have neveer sent an innocent man to the cross no matter what the crowd did. Pilate abused his authority.
I can also never understand why it is that some people think they need to have a belief in a deity, in this case the Christian deity, in order to know right from wrong.
Because these standards are absolute and apply to all persons. I have already explained this.
If knowing your god keeps you from "sinning",
He may and He may not.
where was your god, when for many many years the white Christian majority in America went along quite happily with a system that relegated the black population to that of a sub species?
Right where He always is. Social Darwinism (Aldous Huxley?) relegates groups to sub species. Christian primary sources have persons down as equals with rights. Colossians 3:11 comes to mind. Also prohibitions against kidnapping. 1 Tim.1:10. which was part of the process of slavery. If there is no God and a group decides slavery is legal and right then who is to say it is wrong if that group has sufficient power to carry out its agenda to make and sell slaves? It still goes on in certain parts of world.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3478 Jan 5, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
This is Justin quote.
From Justin. 12.
We are in fact of all men your best helpers and allies in securing good order, convinced as we are that no wicked man, no covetous man or conspirator, or virtuous man either, can be hidden from God, and that everyone goes to eternal punishment or salvation in accordance with the character of his actions. If all men knew this, nobody would choose vice even for a little time, knowing that he was on his way to eternal punishment by fire;...there are some who merely try to conceal their wrongdoing because of the laws and punishments which you decree, knowing that, since you are only men it is possible for wrongdoers to escape you; if they learned and were convinced that our thoughts as well as our actions cannot be hidden from God they would certainly lead orderly lives, if only because of the consequences, as you must agree. But it seems as if you are afraid of having all men well behaved and nobody left for you to punish; this would be the conduct of public executioners, not of good rulers...but if like thoughtless men who prefer custom to truth then go ahead and do what you can. Rulers who respect reputation rather than truth have as much power as brigands in a desert.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#3479 Jan 5, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
I have noticed that many fundamentalist Christians seem to think that “God”, Jesus and the Apostles all “spake” Middle English.
.
Bulk wrap! Name one on this forum that does.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#3480 Jan 5, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Bulk wrap! Name one on this forum that does.
Allen Richards.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#3481 Jan 5, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Allen Richards.
.
Ache rock gush hit!

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#3482 Jan 5, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Ache rock gush hit!
Now, stop calling yourself names like that.
gosh gee whiz

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3483 Jan 5, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Nice job!
Thanks.

I must be getting old though. I goof around and post like that, and forget about them until the next day when checking on the threads from my tracker. Then have the "Oh hey, I wrote that." experience.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3484 Jan 5, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
I have noticed that many fundamentalist Christians seem to think that “God”, Jesus and the Apostles all “spake” Middle English.
You have to marvel at how effective the Christian FEAR mongering brainwashing system is, to cripple them from questioning things like that.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3485 Jan 5, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> If i cheat you then i should feel shame. Shame serves a purpose.
<quoted text> It is a growth process. Christians are called to hate sin and love sinners and when they speak out against sin they are accused of all sorts of things. In other words tolerance only applies if the Christian also accepts the habitual sin. Habitual sin damages people and puts them in jeopardy with God. If the sin involvers partners then the effect is on others also. If i really cared about that female, would i really try to seduce her outside of marriage? Put her in a position where she has to answer to God? No, i would not.
<quoted text> Well you have one weak precident for that. The thief on the cross. But he was already under a severe form of human justice.
<quoted text> Not really. It incites me to do what i know is right. God will deal with the others. Besides, we are not to judge people who wrong us. Not to hate them. By our standard of measure it will be measured out. That was the defect of the Pharisees. They thought they were more righteous than others.
<quoted text> Proty doctrine? Your description is one dimensional. People do right things out of love, for example, there is compassion. If a person is committed to God then they want to do things which are pleasing to Him. If they love each other or are basically good then they naturally want to help others whenever and however they can.
If a person is truly committed to God, they would use a capital "I" when referring to themselves. If they don't, they are going to >>>Hell<<<.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#3486 Jan 5, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Now, stop calling yourself names like that.
gosh gee whiz
I did a search on the entire Internet for that, and ONLY found some nutwad called Allen Richards uses that phrase.

http://s603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/ausa... ;

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#3487 Jan 6, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Now, stop calling yourself names like that.
gosh gee whiz
<><
Ewer ail eye ink rock gush hit.

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