forgiveness
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HEY

Sun City, FL

#1 Aug 17, 2009
I decided to begin a new thread, after hearing of the heartache that a member of the topix family is dealing with. Please contribute your verses, passages, and perhaps own testimony concerning forgiveness. Perhaps what you experienced when you forgave, or when you refused to forgive. Maybe what happened when you were forgiven for some unspeakable sin.
HEY

Sun City, FL

#2 Aug 17, 2009
There is so much power in forgiveness. Many people think it is just the opposite. Sort of the same way people confuse "meek" with being weak.

Forgiveness is not a gift that you give to the offender. It is not saying to the offender that they got away with their sin. Forgiveness does not make it like it never happened.

Forgiveness is first, and foremost, an act of obedience. Not forgiving is a sin against the Lord, and it comes back against you.

When we are offended, no matter how minor or how devastating, we are commanded to forgive. When we don’t, we are saying “No” to the Lord Jesus Christ. That damages our relationship with the one who hung on a cross to forgive us for OUR sin. We close our hearts to Him, and in effect, we are saying that we do not trust Him to deal with the offence or the offender.

We hold that grudge until it produces bitterness in our own heart. Bitterness that will eventually produce physical sickness.
HEY

Sun City, FL

#3 Aug 17, 2009

Mat 6:14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Mat 6:15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

When we forgive, we “give up” our right to get even. We give up our claim to take justice into our own hands. We give it over to God. The God who knows the name of the offender. The God who knows what they did. Why they did it. Where they are at this very moment. Praying with a grudge will get you no where. Pray, believing that God is more angry with the offense than you are, and that He can do more about it than you can. Shall not the judge of all Creation judge righteously?
Get into the Word. Look up all of those verses about forgiveness. You will see something in them that you never have seen before.
Romans 12:19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.
2 Thess 1:6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you…
God is a God of wrath. A God of vengeance. A God who repays.
Your fear is that this God that you know and love is going to have mercy on your offender. That He is going to take too long, or let the offender get away to do it again.
Your place in this is to cast all of your cares on Him. Pray like David prayed for his enemies.(Read and pray the Psalms)
When you give up your right to ‘get even’, then you are giving that right to God. I remember when I was a child and I explained this to Uncle John. Later, I heard him telling someone else about what he learned ‘I found out that if you give it to God, he puts a whammy on it!”

“In the rustling of the leaves”

Since: Dec 07

Washington, D.C.

#4 Aug 17, 2009
Well, my is still starving; "they won't eat your HEY!"

One of us completely misunderstands forgiveness.
You think it's handing over to God, your claims on getting even.
That not forgiveness, that's DELEGATING.!
It is not forgiving to happily anticipate the greater retribution you think God will wrought upon your enemies, in your stead.
HEY

Sun City, FL

#5 Aug 17, 2009
Janeebananee wrote:
Well, my is still starving; "they won't eat your HEY!"
One of us completely misunderstands forgiveness.
You think it's handing over to God, your claims on getting even.
That not forgiveness, that's DELEGATING.!
It is not forgiving to happily anticipate the greater retribution you think God will wrought upon your enemies, in your stead.

No baby.

I actually did not write everything that there is to be written about forgiveness in those three post. I stopped writing so I could eat dinner, do the dishes, and take a shower.

I thought that this would give a bit of time for the person that I was aiming at to read it.

It is always amusing when an unbeliever attempts to explain the things of God to a believer. Thanks for your input.
HEY

Sun City, FL

#6 Aug 17, 2009
When our attitude is wrong, we grieve the Holy Spirit:

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Paul goes on to list some of the things that show up when we have an unforgiving attitude:

Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
Eph 4:32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#7 Aug 17, 2009
HEY wrote:
There is so much power in forgiveness. Many people think it is just the opposite. Sort of the same way people confuse "meek" with being weak.
Forgiveness is not a gift that you give to the offender. It is not saying to the offender that they got away with their sin. Forgiveness does not make it like it never happened.
Forgiveness is first, and foremost, an act of obedience. Not forgiving is a sin against the Lord, and it comes back against you.
When we are offended, no matter how minor or how devastating, we are commanded to forgive. When we don’t, we are saying “No” to the Lord Jesus Christ. That damages our relationship with the one who hung on a cross to forgive us for OUR sin. We close our hearts to Him, and in effect, we are saying that we do not trust Him to deal with the offence or the offender.
We hold that grudge until it produces bitterness in our own heart. Bitterness that will eventually produce physical sickness.
What an idiotic post. If you're "forgiving" someone simply because you think it's what some imaginary sky-god wants you to do, then you aren't really forgiving anyone, are you? Forgiveness has to come from within, not some superficial declaration that you made because you think you're "appeasing" your god. That's not forgiveness, that's just saying a bunch of nonsense you may not truly believe just because you think you'll be rewarded for it. Newsflash: there is no reward in the afterlife.
HEY

Sun City, FL

#8 Aug 17, 2009
NoamChimpsky wrote:
<quoted text>
What an idiotic post. If you're "forgiving" someone simply because you think it's what some imaginary sky-god wants you to do, then you aren't really forgiving anyone, are you? Forgiveness has to come from within, not some superficial declaration that you made because you think you're "appeasing" your god. That's not forgiveness, that's just saying a bunch of nonsense you may not truly believe just because you think you'll be rewarded for it. Newsflash: there is no reward in the afterlife.


Aw man! Who left the door open again!?!
Ken

Traverse City, MI

#9 Aug 17, 2009
HEY wrote:
I decided to begin a new thread, after hearing of the heartache that a member of the topix family is dealing with. Please contribute your verses, passages, and perhaps own testimony concerning forgiveness. Perhaps what you experienced when you forgave, or when you refused to forgive. Maybe what happened when you were forgiven for some unspeakable sin.
Thank you for your concern and prayers.

God bless you!

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#10 Aug 17, 2009
HEY wrote:
<quoted text>
Aw man! Who left the door open again!?!
You didn't address the logically sound point I made. If you're superficially claiming that you "forgive" someone simply because you think it's what your sky fairy wants you to do, you aren't truly forgiving them.
ok and

Canton, OH

#11 Aug 17, 2009
NoamChimpsky wrote:
<quoted text>
What an idiotic post. If you're "forgiving" someone simply because you think it's what some imaginary sky-god wants you to do, then you aren't really forgiving anyone, are you? Forgiveness has to come from within, not some superficial declaration that you made because you think you're "appeasing" your god. That's not forgiveness, that's just saying a bunch of nonsense you may not truly believe just because you think you'll be rewarded for it. Newsflash: there is no reward in the afterlife.
Maybe one day you will go to God, talk to him, then you will be able to understand and talk before not thinking. First off without the belief in God, of course you are not going to actually understand or care to understand anything in this forum (You know Christian forum) where I wouldn't go to a Pagan or Atheist forum and tell my opinions of something I have never been part of. Its like talking about proper speech without ever actually learning grammer, pronunciation, grammar, or being taught the language. Next is this, no it doesn't mean just forgive to please God. You have to actually have feelings of forgiveness, mean it when you forgive them. Its not one of those things you have to go to the person and tell them. Just know in your heart that you forgave them, then God will forgive you. Once again I urge you to learn of God and when I say this I mean when/if you want to learn, pay attention, have faith and open mind. Otherwise, which is right now, you will not learn a thing or will never know what a Christian is talking about. You are one of those non-religious people when you speak of us you refer to me as another "religious person" yet you are religious because you have faith in something, belief of something. That belief and religion is nothing, believing in yourself, having faith that all Christians are wrong. So as your "open-minded" self you should be able to acknowledge all that I have said.

Sorry for your loss Ken. As you can see many are on the path of loosing much more
Light Sensitive

Brooklyn, NY

#12 Aug 17, 2009
"Forgiveness is first, and foremost, an act of obedience. Not forgiving is a sin against the Lord, and it comes back against you."

exactly the sort of BS that makes xtians sound so looney.

so I get kicked in the nuts and your god is going to persecute me for not forgiving the kicker? he's gonna heap some bad kharma on me because I dont forgive the acts of someone else...?

and you worship this entity?

I can see it now, scene at the pearly gates...angel checking the roster of who gets in the night club...

Angel holds up a hand. "Whoa there honey, says here you never forgave the guy, who by the way found god while in prison, who attacked you and made your kid watch."

(woman splutters) "But...but he...I lost everything..."

Angel (now backed up by burly bouncer angel) "Sorry thats the rules, no forgivey no tickey..!"
ok and

Canton, OH

#13 Aug 17, 2009
NoamChimpsky wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't address the logically sound point I made. If you're superficially claiming that you "forgive" someone simply because you think it's what your sky fairy wants you to do, you aren't truly forgiving them.
Sorry to inform you but most have yet to take the time to address your improper, foul and irrelevant statements/questions. Yet I did, now I am leaving since I just wanted to tell Ken he is in prayers. Preach how you know so much about there is nothing in this world and no purpose to your no purpose thread please. Take care
Light Sensitive

Brooklyn, NY

#14 Aug 17, 2009
HEY wrote:
<quoted text>
Aw man! Who left the door open again!?!
lousey chinese locks, my kid can pick them in a few seconds...
Wow I just got overload

Canton, OH

#15 Aug 17, 2009
Light Sensitive wrote:
<quoted text>
lousey chinese locks, my kid can pick them in a few seconds...
Its a little broader than your mind, without God, can handle. Read my posts above they are for you as well. Also it doesn't say if you don't forgive you go to hell. You still won't be "rewarded" if not forgiving. Im not going to nor can I explain everything to you as you are part of the "open-minded, non-religious and non-naive"
group.
Light Sensitive

Brooklyn, NY

#16 Aug 17, 2009
ok and wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe one day you will go to God, talk to him, then you will be able to understand and talk before not thinking. First off without the belief in God, of course you are not going to actually understand or care to understand anything in this forum (You know Christian forum) where I wouldn't go to a Pagan or Atheist forum and tell my opinions of something I have never been part of. Its like talking about proper speech without ever actually learning grammer, pronunciation, grammar, or being taught the language. Next is this, no it doesn't mean just forgive to please God. You have to actually have feelings of forgiveness, mean it when you forgive them. Its not one of those things you have to go to the person and tell them. Just know in your heart that you forgave them, then God will forgive you. Once again I urge you to learn of God and when I say this I mean when/if you want to learn, pay attention, have faith and open mind. Otherwise, which is right now, you will not learn a thing or will never know what a Christian is talking about. You are one of those non-religious people when you speak of us you refer to me as another "religious person" yet you are religious because you have faith in something, belief of something. That belief and religion is nothing, believing in yourself, having faith that all Christians are wrong. So as your "open-minded" self you should be able to acknowledge all that I have said.
Sorry for your loss Ken. As you can see many are on the path of loosing much more
concept of paragraphs escape you?
so we can be assured you wont discuss grammar, etc?

"Just know in your heart that you forgave them, then God will forgive you"

he's going to forgive me because of someone elses actions causes me grief? what a pal...

Dear god I forgive that lout bernie madoff, its so wrong of me to hold a grudge for his taking all my money and living the high-life while I saved and worked late, and didnt spend all my money when I earned it...but wanted to take the wife around the world like we planned, visit the holy land, and our ancestral lands...when we retired. we were even thinking of doing some charity work in africa...

Yeah, Im such a jerk for being angry at him..because after all you'll burn his ass in hell for me right? Youre not going to let him find-you in jail are you? youre not gonna send him a vision like you tend to do, cause those jews are one of your people too? tell me you wont do that...cause if I get to heaven and he's there I dont knowwhat I'll do...

Oh damn now Im pissed again...!
Light Sensitive

Brooklyn, NY

#17 Aug 17, 2009
HEY wrote:
When our attitude is wrong, we grieve the Holy Spirit:
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Paul goes on to list some of the things that show up when we have an unforgiving attitude:
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
Eph 4:32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
sounds great coming from a xrian murdering jew...

Pauls epiphany (not) "OhMyGod! maybe killing people is bad...wait a minute, what was that commandment...?"

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#18 Aug 17, 2009
ok and wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe one day you will go to God, talk to him, then you will be able to understand and talk before not thinking. First off without the belief in God, of course you are not going to actually understand or care to understand anything in this forum (You know Christian forum) where I wouldn't go to a Pagan or Atheist forum and tell my opinions of something I have never been part of. Its like talking about proper speech without ever actually learning grammer, pronunciation, grammar, or being taught the language. Next is this, no it doesn't mean just forgive to please God. You have to actually have feelings of forgiveness, mean it when you forgive them. Its not one of those things you have to go to the person and tell them. Just know in your heart that you forgave them, then God will forgive you. Once again I urge you to learn of God and when I say this I mean when/if you want to learn, pay attention, have faith and open mind. Otherwise, which is right now, you will not learn a thing or will never know what a Christian is talking about. You are one of those non-religious people when you speak of us you refer to me as another "religious person" yet you are religious because you have faith in something, belief of something. That belief and religion is nothing, believing in yourself, having faith that all Christians are wrong. So as your "open-minded" self you should be able to acknowledge all that I have said.
Sorry for your loss Ken. As you can see many are on the path of loosing much more
The thing is, I know exactly what you nuts are talking about. The thing you guys don't realize about your make-believe sky wizard is that it's all humans. Humans made up the concept of a "god", and you guys attributed all these made-up attributes to him, such as wanting you to forgive. And please don't assume that all atheists know nothing about your kind. I attended buy-bull school and church quite often as a child. Personally, I think being immersed in your culture of bullshit makes it EASIER for us to see why your beliefs are pure nonsense.

Also, when you say shit like this, it really illustrates why most non-believers see your religion as a sick, perverted belief system:

"Just know in your heart that you forgave them, then God will forgive you."

Now say your child was brutally murdered by vicious killer, and you had nothing at all to do with it. Now why in the f**k would you ever think YOU, as a victim, needs to be "forgiven"? What kind of sick, demented religion plants thoughts like this in its minions' heads? You're teaching people that by being victimized, THEY are the ones at fault if they don't "forgive". Have you ever considered that some acts don't deserve forgiveness under any circumstances?
Light Sensitive

Brooklyn, NY

#19 Aug 17, 2009
Wow I just got overload wrote:
<quoted text>
Its a little broader than your mind, without God, can handle. Read my posts above they are for you as well. Also it doesn't say if you don't forgive you go to hell. You still won't be "rewarded" if not forgiving. Im not going to nor can I explain everything to you as you are part of the "open-minded, non-religious and non-naive"
group.
what are you talking about? and which personality is this??

rewarded means what to you? heaven or some icecream with sprinkles...? not rewarded means what? hell or bubblegum flavored icecream...?

youre not going to nor can you explain anything till you start making sense - period.

the day a god-myth creates broadmindedness...well that'll be the day hell freezes over...

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#20 Aug 17, 2009
Wow I just got overload wrote:
<quoted text>
Its a little broader than your mind, without God, can handle. Read my posts above they are for you as well. Also it doesn't say if you don't forgive you go to hell. You still won't be "rewarded" if not forgiving. Im not going to nor can I explain everything to you as you are part of the "open-minded, non-religious and non-naive"
group.
Considering you just make this BS up as you go along, you might as well bother explaining it to us.

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