frank

Fayetteville, NC

#21 Feb 3, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the current situation.
<quoted text>

But, let's take it a step further. Let's say there is a single mother who is on welfare and does not want to work. She has six kids. There are Conservatives who would say "cut her off".
My perspective is this: There are six Americans who are children who did not ask to have this woman as a mother, who do not have the ability to get jobs to buy food or clothing for themselves.
I wouldn't sat "Cut her off". No, I'd put out beside the road picking up trash...bet she wan't a real job then.

I want reform.
frank

Fayetteville, NC

#22 Feb 3, 2013
correction***I'd put her out beside picking up trash..bet she'd want a real job then. And I'd require these people to get some trainin or something, maybe assist them in job placement and so forth.
frank

Fayetteville, NC

#23 Feb 3, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Frank, you know that that's not true.
Not only is it not "many" liberals that want communism, it's hardly any.
I'm not so sure about that. I'm hearing so-called "liberals" espouse radical views these days.
frank

Fayetteville, NC

#24 Feb 3, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Frank, you know that that's not true.
Not only is it not "many" liberals that want communism, it's hardly any.
I'm not so sure about that. Alot of young "liberals", fresh from indoctrination in college, seem to be espousing radical views these days.
frank

Fayetteville, NC

#25 Feb 3, 2013
Sorru about the numerous postings--topix is acting up on my pc again.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#26 Feb 3, 2013
frank wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't sat "Cut her off". No, I'd put out beside the road picking up trash...bet she wan't a real job then.
I want reform.
I agree that the system needs reform, but that that reform shouldn't simply be "cut everyone off".

There are plenty of jobs we could "hire" these people to do, whether they are in downtown NYC or, as the majority of welfare recipients live, in the rural south.

We have farmers who can't get their crops harvested because the immigration enforcement has been so severe that there are no workers. Seems like southerners on welfare could be bussed around to do that work just fine.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#27 Feb 3, 2013
frank wrote:
correction***I'd put her out beside picking up trash..bet she'd want a real job then. And I'd require these people to get some trainin or something, maybe assist them in job placement and so forth.
I got where you were going.

By the way, "job training programs" would have the "Conservatives" calling you a commie socialist muslim

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#28 Feb 3, 2013
frank wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not so sure about that. I'm hearing so-called "liberals" espouse radical views these days.
What you hear are quotes that get played on Fox News. They send a team out to some rally where they interview 50 people, often telling them what to say, then they play it as if that were the mainstream opinion.

It's not.

There was some kid at some "Occupy" rally who wanted the government to pay off his student loan because "I don't want to pay it".

That's not a mainstream position. But I guarantee you it got a lot of play on Fox News.
Frank

Fayetteville, NC

#29 Feb 3, 2013
Sure, great idea, let's bus em' around and let them pick crops.
First I'd like to deport the last of the illegals though..whom, btw, don't just pick tobacco anymore.
No, they've taken over the roofing, framing, flooring, sheet-rocking, and landscaping trades down here..and they seem to be making a grab for the restaraunt jobs as well..all jobs that once paid a living wage to Americans.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#30 Feb 3, 2013
Frank wrote:
Sure, great idea, let's bus em' around and let them pick crops.
First I'd like to deport the last of the illegals though..whom, btw, don't just pick tobacco anymore.
No, they've taken over the roofing, framing, flooring, sheet-rocking, and landscaping trades down here..and they seem to be making a grab for the restaraunt jobs as well..all jobs that once paid a living wage to Americans.
Well, let's talk about the situation with illegals.

It's simply impossible for our law enforcement officials or legal system to locate and deport all the illegal aliens. There are too many, they are spread out.

We could spend a trillion dollars doing it and it wouldn't make a difference.

AND, the Conservatives wouldn't give us credit if we did. Obama has exported more illegals in 4 years than Bush did in 8. Yet, the GOP still claims that Obama is pro-illegals.

So, can't find them, can't round them up.

How do we fix the problem?

Build a fence? No. That's a ridiculous notion. Firstly because the majority of our illegal aliens do not sneak across the border. They are people who were here on legal visas who overstayed when their visa expired. No fence is going to stop them.

Pass racist laws? No. Arizona's "Arrest all the Brown People" law is part of what cost the GOP the Hispanic vote. If you want to piss off a group of law abiding Americans, start demanding that they prove their citizenship every time they leave their homes because they "look Mexican".

No, what we need to do is monitor and punish employers who hire illegals. And, in order to do that, we need to empower employers to check the status.

But, it's not a trite criticism to say that Americans don't want those jobs. they don't. There was a farmer in the south (Georgia?) who's crops rotted on the vine because he couldn't get workers _at any price_. He was offering WAY more than minimum wage and the state had high unemployment. White people in the South just don't want to do labor they think is beneath them. They would rather not work than actually do the job. Yet these people are overwhelmingly conservatives.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who are out of work in your area. Why aren't they competing for the jobs currently held by illegals? Why aren't they offering to do the job for less money than the illegals will do it? After all, that's capitalism. Lots of unemployed people, very few jobs. Employers can pay whatever they want.$1 an hour.$2.

If people REALLY want these jobs, they are there for the taking. It's just that people don't want to work hard, in the sun, for not very much money. Regardless of their economic situation.
Frank

Fayetteville, NC

#31 Feb 3, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, let's talk about the situation with illegals.
It's simply impossible for our law enforcement officials or legal system to locate and deport all the illegal aliens. There are too many, they are spread out.
We could spend a trillion dollars doing it and it wouldn't make a difference.
AND, the Conservatives wouldn't give us credit if we did. Obama has exported more illegals in 4 years than Bush did in 8. Yet, the GOP still claims that Obama is pro-illegals.
So, can't find them, can't round them up.
How do we fix the problem?
Build a fence? No. That's a ridiculous notion. Firstly because the majority of our illegal aliens do not sneak across the border. They are people who were here on legal visas who overstayed when their visa expired. No fence is going to stop them.
Pass racist laws? No. Arizona's "Arrest all the Brown People" law is part of what cost the GOP the Hispanic vote. If you want to piss off a group of law abiding Americans, start demanding that they prove their citizenship every time they leave their homes because they "look Mexican".
No, what we need to do is monitor and punish employers who hire illegals. And, in order to do that, we need to empower employers to check the status.
But, it's not a trite criticism to say that Americans don't want those jobs. they don't. There was a farmer in the south (Georgia?) who's crops rotted on the vine because he couldn't get workers _at any price_. He was offering WAY more than minimum wage and the state had high unemployment. White people in the South just don't want to do labor they think is beneath them. They would rather not work than actually do the job. Yet these people are overwhelmingly conservatives.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who are out of work in your area. Why aren't they competing for the jobs currently held by illegals? Why aren't they offering to do the job for less money than the illegals will do it? After all, that's capitalism. Lots of unemployed people, very few jobs. Employers can pay whatever they want.$1 an hour.$2.
If people REALLY want these jobs, they are there for the taking. It's just that people don't want to work hard, in the sun, for not very much money. Regardless of their economic situation.
You make several valid points however I disagree wih much of it.

As for the illegals, yes, employers whom hire them need to be punished, we need to build a bigger wall, we need to do away with the anchor baby law, and we need for every city's law enforcement to check the citizenship status whenever they pull people over and do the same whenever someone enrolls into school--and it would be nice if we could empty all state and federal prisons of illegals and deport them.

And the idea that Americans are lazy and don't want the jobs that the illegals are taking is the biggest liberal lie in existence. Sure, that was true once upon a time when mexicans picked vegetables and cleaned houses, however constructon trades such as roofing, sheet-rocking, framing, flooring, etc., were once jobs that paid Americans a living wage--and don't tell me different because I know. My uncle built houses when I was a teen in the eighties and he'd get me part-time work (under the table) occasionally on week-ends/during the summer and you wouldn't hardly see illegals doing this kind of work back then, nahhh, it was mostly white guys and a sprinkling of blacks--ride by a job-site today and your likely to see nothing but mexicans.

And no the average farmer doesn't pay normal wages--they usually pay by the amount picked (When it comes to hand-picking...however alot of it is done by machines today).

Farmers aside, we don't need ilegal aliens, at this point they are taking jobs that Americans once worked. And you can't say "oh, but that's capitalism" because the biggest supporters of capitalism are usually conservatives whom support the deportation of illegals. Americans shouldn't have to compete with illegals for jobs.
Frank

Fayetteville, NC

#32 Feb 3, 2013
I just wrote a reply to this and it didn't go through!

Yes, we need to punish employers, build a bigger wall, require law enforcement to check citizenship status whenever they pull somebody over and do the same thing whenever someone enrolls into a school, and do away with this anchor baby non-sense...and it would be nice if we could empty the federal and state prisons of illegals and deport them.

And this idea that illegals are working jobs that Americans won't is the biggest liberal lie that there is. There was some truth to this once upon a time when illegals picked vegetables and cleaned houses however today they've taken the jobs that once paid a living wage to Americans---framing, roofing, plumbing, flooring,their getting into heavy machinery operation, doing restaraunt, etc., and don't me tell that I'm wrong because I know--when I was a teen in the eighties my uncle would get me work under the table occasionally on the weekends/during the summer and you'd hardly see any illegals on the job-sites back then--ride by a jobsite today (at least down here) and that's likely all that you'll see.

Peek into the back of many of these restaraunts around here, and that's what you'll likely see.

It's like I said several weeks ago---I rode by some guys doing road work some time ago and every last one of the workers from the guy on the machine to the flag-men were mexicans..lol, so I guess you going to tell me that all of the Americans whom once did these jobs collectively decided that they don't want to do them anymore?

No, I don't think so. And as for the farmers--usually they don't pay normal wages..no, they pay by the amount picked however human pickers aren't even needed anymore for some crops because there are machines that can pick them.

And Americans shouldn't be forced to compete with illegal aliens for jobs--period,
Frank

Fayetteville, NC

#33 Feb 3, 2013
Read post 32---I typed up a reply and then it didn't go through..but then it appeared after I wrote up another reply, lol.
Yeah, read #32 because I added something.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#34 Feb 3, 2013
Frank wrote:
we need to build a bigger wall
When I hear people say this, what I hear is "...to keep out the brown people".

Why aren't we building a wall with Canada? We have 4x as much of an open border with Canada as we do with Mexico.

Besides, a wall will not keep people out. Tunnels, ladders, boats, cars, airplanes. It's too easy.
we need to do away with the anchor baby law
Well, that law is actually how we determine citizenship. If you want to make it so that child are only US citizens if one or more parents is a US citizen, that's a possible change. The current situation includes all people born in the US.

I warn you though, don't make it retroactive or all white people will have to leave.
we need for every city's law enforcement to check the citizenship status whenever they pull people over
That sounds like "common sense" until you get down to the details. First, local cops don't have the authority to investigate federal crimes. Immigration is a federal crime. Second, this check takes _time_. LOTS of time. In Arizona, the effect of the "check the Brown people's papers" law has been pulling cops off the street and having them do paperwork.

So, someone runs a stop sign. The cop pulls them over. Writes them a ticket. The cop is back on the road in 15 minutes.

Someone who is brown runs a stop sign. The cop pulls them over. Calls a tow truck. Hauls them back to the station. Calls the INS. Double checks their status. That cop isn't back on the road for 2 hours.

That's a problem.

Now, if someone is actually arrested for a crime, then they should have the INS status checked. Definitely. That won't take cops off the street and won't harass law abiding citizens who happen to be brown.

And the idea that Americans are lazy and don't want the jobs that the illegals are taking is the biggest liberal lie in existence. Sure, that was true once upon a time when mexicans picked vegetables and cleaned houses, however constructon trades such as roofing, sheet-rocking, framing, flooring, etc., were once jobs that paid Americans a living wage--and don't tell me different because I know.
I'm telling you what I saw. Here's an artcle
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/georgias-new...

There are 11,000 jobs in George paying an average of $8/hr picking crops. No one wants them.

Is that a "living wage"? Nope. Not by a long shot. But suggesting that we make the employers pay the people enough to get by sounds an awful lot socialism. At least, that's what FoxNews has been saying about Obama when he says stuff like that.
Americans shouldn't have to compete with illegals for jobs.
Americans don't compete. that's the whole point of the article.

The farmers are paying $8/hr and have 11,000 openings. White people in Georgia would rather sit at home unemployed and complain that Obama is a communist instead of working for a living.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#35 Feb 3, 2013
Frank wrote:
--when I was a teen in the eighties my uncle would get me work under the table occasionally on the weekends/during the summer and you'd hardly see any illegals on the job-sites back then--ride by a jobsite today (at least down here) and that's likely all that you'll see.
I'm going to assume you were living in NC during the 80s.
In the 1980 census, the population of NC was ~5,880,000. Hispanics numbered 56,600. Or,.1% of the population.

In the 2010 census, the population of NC was ~9,535,000. Hispanics were 8.4% of the population, or a little less than 900,000 people.

The reason you didn't see many Hispanics on the job in the 80s is that NC didn't have many Hispanics in the 80s.

The demographics are changing. There are 85X as many _legal_ Hispanics living in NC now as there were when you were growing up. Of course they are going to have more jobs then they did then.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#36 Feb 3, 2013
Frank wrote:
Read post 32---I typed up a reply and then it didn't go through..but then it appeared after I wrote up another reply, lol.
Yeah, read #32 because I added something.
Yeah Topix does that to me a lot. Or deletes stuff I posted
Frank

Fayetteville, NC

#37 Feb 3, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
When I hear people say this, what I hear is "...to keep out the brown people".
Why aren't we building a wall with Canada? We have 4x as much of an open border with Canada as we do with Mexico.
Besides, a wall will not keep people out. Tunnels, ladders, boats, cars, airplanes. It's too easy.
<quoted text>
Well, that law is actually how we determine citizenship. If you want to make it so that child are only US citizens if one or more parents is a US citizen, that's a possible change. The current situation includes all people born in the US.
I warn you though, don't make it retroactive or all white people will have to leave.
<quoted text>
That sounds like "common sense" until you get down to the details. First, local cops don't have the authority to investigate federal crimes. Immigration is a federal crime. Second, this check takes _time_. LOTS of time. In Arizona, the effect of the "check the Brown people's papers" law has been pulling cops off the street and having them do paperwork.
So, someone runs a stop sign. The cop pulls them over. Writes them a ticket. The cop is back on the road in 15 minutes.
Someone who is brown runs a stop sign. The cop pulls them over. Calls a tow truck. Hauls them back to the station. Calls the INS. Double checks their status. That cop isn't back on the road for 2 hours.
That's a problem.
Now, if someone is actually arrested for a crime, then they should have the INS status checked. Definitely. That won't take cops off the street and won't harass law abiding citizens who happen to be brown.
<quoted text>
I'm telling you what I saw. Here's an artcle
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/georgias-new...
There are 11,000 jobs in George paying an average of $8/hr picking crops. No one wants them.
Is that a "living wage"? Nope. Not by a long shot. But suggesting that we make the employers pay the people enough to get by sounds an awful lot socialism. At least, that's what FoxNews has been saying about Obama when he says stuff like that.
<quoted text>
Americans don't compete. that's the whole point of the article.
The farmers are paying $8/hr and have 11,000 openings. White people in Georgia would rather sit at home unemployed and complain that Obama is a communist instead of working for a living.
You can't play the race thing with me because I'm black. I'd still be against it if the illegals were from Nigeria.

We don't need a wall with Canada because Canada isn't a narco state and canadians aren't flooding the country. Yeah, canadians taking our jobs and joining MS-13 isn't an issue right now. It's common sense.

And a very large and heavily patrolled doube wall topped with razor way and buring several feet into the ground would do alot of good, lol. And some parts of the border aren't fenced at all--one can simply boat across the rio-grande.

And I'm sure that if we can put a man on the moon then there's a way to stream-line the checking of citizenship status.

And the remark about not making the change in the law "retroactive because all white people will have to leave" is stupid, imo. Like most liberals, your hinting at the "all white people are immigrants" line to justify the flooding of third-worlders into the U.S. Yes, white people stole this nation and brought mine here in slave ships--happened a long time ago and now we have a nice country and I'd rather not see it turned into mexico--If I wanted to live in mexico I'd move there. Another issue--the one that sorta irks me--is how mexicans are WILLINGLY coming here and then trying to play the "oppressed minority" role. I once heard a mexican "intellectual" claim "mexicans are the new n____"--that's the biggest bunch of B.S that I've heard yet No-one is forcing them to come here.

And the crops rotting in GA doesn't change the fact that the illegals are beginning to dominate the construction trade here..and that's a problem.
Frank

Fayetteville, NC

#38 Feb 3, 2013
No, I wasn't living in nc in the 80's...and the number of hispanics here doesn't justify the taking of these jobs by illegal aliens.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#39 Feb 3, 2013
Frank wrote:
<quoted text>
You can't play the race thing with me because I'm black. I'd still be against it if the illegals were from Nigeria.
It's not race against you, its simply a matter of fact.

There are Canadian illegals. Yet, there aren't going to be any cops that pull over a white guy and ask him for his papers. Meanwhile, every single Hispanic is going to have to present proof of citizenship to any cop they pass.

That's a racist policy.
We don't need a wall with Canada because Canada isn't a narco state and canadians aren't flooding the country.
Canada produces a ton of pot and there are something like 75,000 illegal Canadians here. Is that as many as Mexico? No. But that's not a small number.
And a very large and heavily patrolled doube wall topped with razor way and buring several feet into the ground would do alot of good, lol.
Except that the majority of immigrants aren't crossing the border. They are flying in. They are taking boats in. They are coming across in trucks.

Building a giant fence and then paying to patrol it is a senseless waste of money that will have no effect on immigration. That's not "common sense".
And some parts of the border aren't fenced at all--one can simply boat across the rio-grande.
Or the Gulf of Mexico, or Baja, or the Pacific, or the Atlantic, or fly into Canada and walk across the border.

Or simply flying into a US city with a work or student visa and staying.

Beginning to see why a fence won't do anything?
And I'm sure that if we can put a man on the moon then there's a way to stream-line the checking of citizenship status.
You want a federal agency which supplies all of law enforcement with the status of every citizen in the US and empowers local law enforcement to detain people under suspicion of being "illegal".

That sounds pretty "big government" to me.
Like most liberals, your hinting at the "all white people are immigrants" line to justify the flooding of third-worlders into the U.S.
That's an interesting statement. Why classify immigrants as "third-worlders"? Are you suggesting that an illegal immigrant who sneaks in from Sweden is okay, but that an immigrant from Mexico is automatically bad because his country isn't as rich?

Starting to see what I'm talking about. This isn't an issue about legality. It's a "I don't like Mexicans" issue.
Another issue--the one that sorta irks me--is how mexicans are WILLINGLY coming here and then trying to play the "oppressed minority" role. I once heard a mexican "intellectual" claim "mexicans are the new n____"--that's the biggest bunch of B.S that I've heard yet No-one is forcing them to come here.
First of all, no one forced you to come here. No one forced your parents, or their parents or their parents to come here. You can probably go back 10 generations before you find an ancestor who was put on a boat.

You are looking down on Mexicans the same way that Conservatives look down on all blacks. You think they are inferior to you, that they don't deserve the same opportunities, that they are causing the problems that you experience.

That's the same thing that people said about the Irish and the Italians and every other minority group that immigrated.
And the crops rotting in GA doesn't change the fact that the illegals are beginning to dominate the construction trade here..and that's a problem.
The point is, American workers refuse available jobs. If they took the jobs, then there would be no jobs available for workers from other countries.

Americans just don't want them.

And, like I pointed out, those people working construction may be hispanic, but that doesn't make them illegal.

You have 85x as many Hispanics in NC as you did growing up.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#40 Feb 3, 2013
Frank wrote:
No, I wasn't living in nc in the 80's...and the number of hispanics here doesn't justify the taking of these jobs by illegal aliens.
You said that driving past a work site you saw that most of the people there were Hispanic.

Therefore, you've concluded that they were all illegals.

How is that rational?

Look, the Hispanics are willing to work outside in the heat. The whites won't do it. The blacks won't do it. The Asians won't do it. They don't need to be illegal, they just need to be willing to work.

What do you think would happen if a white farmer went to the unemployment office and said: "I need 50 blacks to come pick my crops". You think he would get ANY volunteers?

"I need 50 white guys to come pick my crops". Any volunteers? Nope.

"I need 50 hispanics to come pick my crops". Line in the parking lot.

They are willing to work.

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