What is a Conservative?
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Frank from Fayetteville

Four Oaks, NC

#224 Feb 27, 2013
What about the kid?

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#225 Feb 27, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>No, you said the tea party was racist just to invalidate their concerns.
How many black tea partiers are there?

Since: Sep 07

Los Angeles, CA

#226 Feb 27, 2013
Frank from Fayetteville wrote:
What about the kid?
Conservatives seem to think that the majority of people getting federal assistance are "lazy" "moochers" "takers" etc.

In reality, the vast majority are the disabled, the working poor, the elderly, children, sons/daughters who've lost one or both parents.

Are there people who exploit the system? Yes. There are ALWAYS a small number of people who exploit whatever system exists.

There are a small number of people in the military exploiting it to their benefit. Yet, Conservatives don't think we should completely abolish the military.

Whenever funding for programs that feed people, clothe people, help the working poor, etc come up, I hear a chorus of "why should we help them, they are too lazy to get a job".

Well, lots of these people aren't too lazy to get a job. They are children who, even if they COULD get a job, wouldn't be legally allowed to work.

They are disabled people.

They are people who already have TWO jobs, both of which only give part time hours and pay minimum wages.

It's all fine and dandy to say "Boot straps" when you are on top of the hill, but the fact of the matter is that not all people were created equally.

There are people out there who aren't particularly talented, or smart, or strong, or pretty, or whatever other god given gift people can possess. They are average, or even below average. And they are struggling.

And you can say, "I don't give a crap if a below average American is struggling. Like Jesus said,'not my problem'."

However these people ARE your problem. And their kids ARE your problem. And their property IS your problem.

When these people fail, we as a society fail. They end up homeless, or completely unemployed, they turn to crime or their kids grow up under nourished.

So, when you give me quotes from the Bible talking about how we shouldn't help people who are lazy, I'm pointing out that the 5 year old kid born poor isn't lazy. He's unfortunate.

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#227 Feb 27, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Conservatives seem to think that the majority of people getting federal assistance are "lazy" "moochers" "takers" etc.
In reality, the vast majority are the disabled, the working poor, the elderly, children, sons/daughters who've lost one or both parents.
Are there people who exploit the system? Yes. There are ALWAYS a small number of people who exploit whatever system exists.
There are a small number of people in the military exploiting it to their benefit. Yet, Conservatives don't think we should completely abolish the military.
Whenever funding for programs that feed people, clothe people, help the working poor, etc come up, I hear a chorus of "why should we help them, they are too lazy to get a job".
Well, lots of these people aren't too lazy to get a job. They are children who, even if they COULD get a job, wouldn't be legally allowed to work.
They are disabled people.
They are people who already have TWO jobs, both of which only give part time hours and pay minimum wages.
It's all fine and dandy to say "Boot straps" when you are on top of the hill, but the fact of the matter is that not all people were created equally.
There are people out there who aren't particularly talented, or smart, or strong, or pretty, or whatever other god given gift people can possess. They are average, or even below average. And they are struggling.
And you can say, "I don't give a crap if a below average American is struggling. Like Jesus said,'not my problem'."
However these people ARE your problem. And their kids ARE your problem. And their property IS your problem.
When these people fail, we as a society fail. They end up homeless, or completely unemployed, they turn to crime or their kids grow up under nourished.
So, when you give me quotes from the Bible talking about how we shouldn't help people who are lazy, I'm pointing out that the 5 year old kid born poor isn't lazy. He's unfortunate.
It's hard to pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you don't have any.
Frank from Fayetteville

Four Oaks, NC

#228 Feb 27, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>

Are there people who exploit the system? Yes. There are ALWAYS a small number of people who exploit whatever system exists.
.
Nuggin, you can down-play it all that you want however I know from personal experience that the problem is much bigger than what you're making it to be. This isn't a theory of mine but something I KNOW.

I know women on welfare with multiple children and no desire to work.

I know crack dealers on food stamps.

I know people whom sell part or all of the balance on their food stamp cards every month (most of these being crack heads)

I know a lady who gets welfare and lets her boyfriend (whom has a job) live with her (which is illegal because she pretends as if its just her and her kids living there so her benefits don't get cut)

I can go on and on and on with this, its much more rampant than you think.

And on another note, they tore down an old housing project in my city and built in its place new projects that look like luxury condos from the outside, complete with a fountain. Now check this out--I've got a single mother renting one of my units ( a 2 bdrm mobile home) whom works at a factory ("Purolator"). She works full-time to support herself and her son and yet could quit her job, go on welfare, and live in a much better home if she could secure a spot in those new projects. What's wrong with this picture?

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#229 Feb 27, 2013
Frank from Fayetteville wrote:
<quoted text>
Nuggin, you can down-play it all that you want however I know from personal experience that the problem is much bigger than what you're making it to be. This isn't a theory of mine but something I KNOW.
I know women on welfare with multiple children and no desire to work.
I know crack dealers on food stamps.
I know people whom sell part or all of the balance on their food stamp cards every month (most of these being crack heads)
I know a lady who gets welfare and lets her boyfriend (whom has a job) live with her (which is illegal because she pretends as if its just her and her kids living there so her benefits don't get cut)
I can go on and on and on with this, its much more rampant than you think.
And on another note, they tore down an old housing project in my city and built in its place new projects that look like luxury condos from the outside, complete with a fountain. Now check this out--I've got a single mother renting one of my units ( a 2 bdrm mobile home) whom works at a factory ("Purolator"). She works full-time to support herself and her son and yet could quit her job, go on welfare, and live in a much better home if she could secure a spot in those new projects. What's wrong with this picture?
Umm, just because you know a few people doesn't mean it's rampant. I know just as many that don't cheat the system. I knew this one guy that worked for twenty years and got hurt on the job. Now he isn't able to work. I guess that means that kind of thing is rampant then.

Since: Sep 07

Los Angeles, CA

#230 Feb 27, 2013
Frank from Fayetteville wrote:
<quoted text>
Nuggin, you can down-play it all that you want however I know from personal experience that the problem is much bigger than what you're making it to be. This isn't a theory of mine but something I KNOW.
I know women on welfare with multiple children and no desire to work.
I know crack dealers on food stamps.
I know people whom sell part or all of the balance on their food stamp cards every month (most of these being crack heads)
I know a lady who gets welfare and lets her boyfriend (whom has a job) live with her (which is illegal because she pretends as if its just her and her kids living there so her benefits don't get cut)
I can go on and on and on with this, its much more rampant than you think.
This is called confirmation bias.

There are TENS of THOUSANDS of people on food stamps. 99.99% of which you do not see. EVER.

You are basing your opinion of the working mother in Penn. who is getting food stamps on the behavior of someone you see where you are.

Yes, there is abuse in the system. It is not 100% of the system that is being abused. It's not 50%. It's not even 25%. You see the abuse because the rest of the people are invisible to you.
And on another note, they tore down an old housing project in my city and built in its place new projects that look like luxury condos from the outside, complete with a fountain. Now check this out--I've got a single mother renting one of my units ( a 2 bdrm mobile home) whom works at a factory ("Purolator"). She works full-time to support herself and her son and yet could quit her job, go on welfare, and live in a much better home if she could secure a spot in those new projects. What's wrong with this picture?
What's wrong with the picture is that you assume that everyone living in the new building is on wellfare. That you assume that a building which got torn down due to structural problems/asbestos/mold/whateve r should be replaced with an equally crappy building so that the people who live there feel like sh1t about themselves.

Further, she would not earn a better living on welfare than she does working at a factory.

Look, I'm all for adjusting the system to help people find work. However, we are at 8% unemployment. Good luck finding a job.

I'm also for rooting out fraud, but doing that requires MORE money for workers who will do the investigating.

You can't continue to cut back on programs which actually help honest hardworking Americans and innocent children and expect that only the "bad ones" will be effected.

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