Study: Bible Still Recognized as Top 'Holy' Book

[Kerdy 1]

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry? Common Sense?

You bet. Only it isnt common any longer, but I am sure if you try really hard, you can find some.

[Kerdy 1]

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
Common sense tells me that when someone claims to personally know a an invisible creature, that has somehow always existed by, I don't know, magic I guess, since I've never had it explained to me, that I'm talking to someone that is delusional.

Can you see the wind? No! You can feel its presence and see the affects it has on your surroundings. Its influence on nature. Can you see gravity? No! Same thing. How about light? Can YOU see light? No! But as a result of light, you can see all around you.

I say someone who only believes what they can see and nothing else is delusional, but thats just me.

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
Common sense tells me that if someone makes an extraordinary claim, they better have extraordinary evidence. Evolution has that. Tiktallik is a real fossil. The hominid fossils are real. The link between dinos and birds is real. I can back up my story.

Here is the difference, I can show you an equal amount of evidence, just as solid, that refutes anything you can come up with in support of this theory. You cant say the same about the existance of God. Its all circumstantial evidence, not concrete. Just because a fossil exists does not mean evolution is real. There is no actual link between any species. At least none that hasnt been disproven by science at least a few times and retold in a different setting. You see, science changes, ALL THE TIME. That tells me its never been right from the beginning. God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. No change. I'll take that one constant in the universe, thanks.

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
Now please, meet the common sense test, and provide me with hard evidence that your beliefs are based in fact. You can still accept my invitation to admit that you want or need your beliefs to be true, and that's why you believe.

Common sense test? Never heard of it, but if you made it up, then it must not be very good. I have provided you with an ample amount of evidence in the past. If you dont believe, so be it. Your choice. Not mine. Your invitation to admit a lie? I'll pass.

Here is the fundamental difference between me and you. If you dont believe me, I just keep going. I feel sad, but life goes on for me. If someone doesnt believe you, you get angry and start in with insults and feeble attempts to make someone somehow seem less intelligent than they actually are. Where I come from, we call that "acting like a baby". Just food for thought.

[Kerdy 1]

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
and don't let someone be tortured and murdered so that they don't have to?

Oh, why wait. I still have 9 minutes left on my lunch break. I say this posted in another thread and it responds to your accusation very well.

"JESUS PREDICTED HIS OWN CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH.

Jesus was not afraid to die. In fact, He predicted His own death and resurrection

Matthew 16:21 - From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Luke 18:31,32 - Jesus took the twelve aside and told them,'We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. He will be handed over to the Gentiles, they will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him, and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.'

John 12:30-32 - This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself". He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die."

"JESUS WILLINGLY WENT TO THE CROSS

Matthew 26:53 - "Do you not think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more that twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

Matthew 26:39 - "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

John 10:18 - "No man takes it (his life) from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father"

[CBart95]

Surprise Surprise! This topic should bring out all the dopes.
WELCOME!

[Reasoner]

Kerdy,

Is there a human sacrifice that took place to appease your god, at the core of your religion?

Yes or no?

If you had been present, would you have tried to stop it?

Yes or no?

You say that Jesus went willingly to his death. What the fuck difference does that make? So that makes it okay for you to take part in such an act? If you had been there, and after hearing the announcement that he was willingly going to let himself be murdered for your benefit, would you have said "Sorry no, I can't be a part of that", and walked away, or would you have been fine with that?

If you were at a human sacrifice ceremony in some ancient civilization, and someone volunteered to jump into a volcano to appease their god, and you had the power to stop it, would you?

You're on death row for murder, and a friend offers to die in your place. What would your answer be?

Vicarious redemption is a vile concept. There's nothing moral about it. I can forgive you for your actions against me, but I cannot absolve you of your guilt whatsoever.

[CBart95]

Reasoner wrote:

Kerdy,
Is there a human sacrifice that took place to appease your god, at the core of your religion?
Yes or no?
If you had been present, would you have tried to stop it?
Yes or no?
You say that Jesus went willingly to his death. What the fuck difference does that make? So that makes it okay for you to take part in such an act? If you had been there, and after hearing the announcement that he was willingly going to let himself be murdered for your benefit, would you have said "Sorry no, I can't be a part of that", and walked away, or would you have been fine with that?
If you were at a human sacrifice ceremony in some ancient civilization, and someone volunteered to jump into a volcano to appease their god, and you had the power to stop it, would you?
You're on death row for murder, and a friend offers to die in your place. What would your answer be?
Vicarious redemption is a vile concept. There's nothing moral about it. I can forgive you for your actions against me, but I cannot absolve you of your guilt whatsoever.

Okay! You don't buy the "logic". Big surprise. In those days when it happened guess what was being done by all the "competing" faiths or philosophical constructs that prevailed "at that time"? Doofus. So,(and why all your deep anger here?)in these days it "doesn't wash". Well, DUH!

You got a rotten attitude. You show up all pissed off and start dissing everyone in sight. Forget you. Mental Case with a hard-on against the Bible!

[Reasoner]

Kerdy 1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Can you see the wind? No! You can feel its presence and see the affects it has on your surroundings. Its influence on nature. Can you see gravity? No! Same thing. How about light? Can YOU see light? No! But as a result of light, you can see all around you.
I say someone who only believes what they can see and nothing else is delusional, but thats just me.
<quoted text>
Here is the difference, I can show you an equal amount of evidence, just as solid, that refutes anything you can come up with in support of this theory. You cant say the same about the existance of God. Its all circumstantial evidence, not concrete. Just because a fossil exists does not mean evolution is real. There is no actual link between any species. At least none that hasnt been disproven by science at least a few times and retold in a different setting. You see, science changes, ALL THE TIME. That tells me its never been right from the beginning. God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. No change. I'll take that one constant in the universe, thanks.
<quoted text>
Common sense test? Never heard of it, but if you made it up, then it must not be very good. I have provided you with an ample amount of evidence in the past. If you dont believe, so be it. Your choice. Not mine. Your invitation to admit a lie? I'll pass.
Here is the fundamental difference between me and you. If you dont believe me, I just keep going. I feel sad, but life goes on for me. If someone doesnt believe you, you get angry and start in with insults and feeble attempts to make someone somehow seem less intelligent than they actually are. Where I come from, we call that "acting like a baby". Just food for thought.

No, I believe wind, gravity, and light exist, because we can measure them and describe what they are. There's nothing magical about them. Do you believe that your god is pushing down on your head, blowing wind through it's mouth, and emitting light out of it's eyeballs, or do you believe those things have natural explanations?

And again, you know nothing about evolution. The Christian counter evidence includes the claim that faked fossils invalidates all fossils, the odds of evolution happening are too high, and irreducible complexity, and creationist propaganda. That's pretty much it. Pardon me if I'm not overwhelmed by that.

Evolution predicts that we should find transitional fossils of one creature to the next. And guess what? We have. Would you care to tackle Homo Neanderthalensis, or Tiktallik Roseae?

And you still insist that science has some magic button that it can push to find the answer to something. Sorry, it can't just make shit up like religion. If science didn't change and adapt, this world would have been ravaged by disease a long time ago.

You're out of your element and you're delusional.

[Kerdy 1]

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
No, I believe wind, gravity, and light exist, because we can measure them and describe what they are. There's nothing magical about them. Do you believe that your god is pushing down on your head, blowing wind through it's mouth, and emitting light out of it's eyeballs, or do you believe those things have natural explanations?
And again, you know nothing about evolution. The Christian counter evidence includes the claim that faked fossils invalidates all fossils, the odds of evolution happening are too high, and irreducible complexity, and creationist propaganda. That's pretty much it. Pardon me if I'm not overwhelmed by that.
Evolution predicts that we should find transitional fossils of one creature to the next. And guess what? We have. Would you care to tackle Homo Neanderthalensis, or Tiktallik Roseae?
And you still insist that science has some magic button that it can push to find the answer to something. Sorry, it can't just make shit up like religion. If science didn't change and adapt, this world would have been ravaged by disease a long time ago.
You're out of your element and you're delusional.

Why are you so upset? You will never convince me of what you say so that only leaves you trying to convince yourself.

There is no human sacrifice by Christians. No matter how you twist and spin in your hateful anti-Christian campaign, you cant prove otherwise. I posted the proof in my previous posts. Ignore it or not. Your choice. I wont attack you for making it either way. Can you too small to return the consideration?

[Kerdy 1]

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
No, I believe wind, gravity, and light exist, because we can measure them and describe what they are.

You measure the results of wind and gravity, not the force itself. Gravity is measured by the effect it has on an object. Thats called weight. You cant see wind, you cant touch wind, you cant smell wind, but you feel its affect on you. Its a change in temperature. You learned that in school, right? Have YOU ever seen Proxima Centauri? Does that mean it isnt real? I have never seen a Odorrana aureola, but I know they exist. Am I making this clear enough? If not, I wont bother to continue. It will only lead you to getting even more angry and showing how much you hate Christ and His followers. Funny how a person can hate something so much they dont think is real. Very odd indeed.

[Reasoner]

Kerdy 1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Why are you so upset? You will never convince me of what you say so that only leaves you trying to convince yourself.
There is no human sacrifice by Christians. No matter how you twist and spin in your hateful anti-Christian campaign, you cant prove otherwise. I posted the proof in my previous posts. Ignore it or not. Your choice. I wont attack you for making it either way. Can you too small to return the consideration?

You quoted the wrong post.

But anyway, you dodged my questions once again, and not with aplomb. I have the answer I need. You can't answer face the reality of your beliefs. I don't need to prove it. That's what it is. If the story of Jesus is not about vicarious redemption through torture and human sacrifice to appease a god, then what the hell is it? You're not moral, nor are you beliefs.

And like I KEEP SAYING, I DO hate Christianity, and religion in general. I've never denied that, and I don't care if you think it's hateful. You're beating a dead horse. I don't need to pretend I'm not, in order to get into Christian happyland. When will you admit that you are hateful as well?

[Reasoner]

Kerdy 1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Why are you so upset? You will never convince me of what you say so that only leaves you trying to convince yourself.
There is no human sacrifice by Christians. No matter how you twist and spin in your hateful anti-Christian campaign, you cant prove otherwise. I posted the proof in my previous posts. Ignore it or not. Your choice. I wont attack you for making it either way. Can you too small to return the consideration?

You quoted the wrong post.

But anyway, you dodged my questions once again, and not with aplomb. I have the answer I need. You can't face the reality of your beliefs. I don't need to prove it. That's what it is. If the story of Jesus is not about vicarious redemption through torture and human sacrifice to appease a god, then what the hell is it? You're not moral, nor are you beliefs.

And like I KEEP SAYING, I DO hate Christianity, and religion in general. I've never denied that, and I don't care if you think it's hateful. You're beating a dead horse. I don't need to pretend I'm not, in order to get into Christian happyland.

When will you admit that you are hateful as well?

[Reasoner]

Well that's weird. Ignore the first post.

[Reasoner]

Kerdy 1 wrote:

<quoted text>
You measure the results of wind and gravity, not the force itself. Gravity is measured by the effect it has on an object. Thats called weight. You cant see wind, you cant touch wind, you cant smell wind, but you feel its affect on you. Its a change in temperature. You learned that in school, right? Have YOU ever seen Proxima Centauri? Does that mean it isnt real? I have never seen a Odorrana aureola, but I know they exist. Am I making this clear enough? If not, I wont bother to continue. It will only lead you to getting even more angry and showing how much you hate Christ and His followers. Funny how a person can hate something so much they dont think is real. Very odd indeed.

Yeah, it's clear to me. Crystal clear. You are trying to setup natural phenomena as being something mysterious, something that can't be proven or seen, so that you can then say that your god is in the same category. You're using a logical fallacy.

First of all, answer my question; are light, gravity, and wind, natural phenomena or not? We know for a fact that those things exist. Do you deny that they exist? I see the sun, I can physically feel the wind push me, I can feel gravity pull on me, and that's not even getting into the scientific measurements of those things.

Please, show me something in the natural world that can only be explained by your god. You're making some crazy leap of logic that not being able to see something means it exists. But by your examples, it should still be detectable, right? We KNOW that gravity, light, and wind exist, even if we need other methods beside sight to prove it. All perfectly natural--nothing supernatural needed.

What measurement do you use to measure your god? How happy you feel in the morning? Quantify your god for me, and we'll see if it doesn't actually have a natural explanation. Don't run away again.

And stop making me repeat myself, how can I hate something that I don't believe exists? You keep getting confused. I do hate religion, because you know, it's an actual thing. Man invented the god, so I no more hate it than I hate King Claudius. They're simply fictitious characters.

[Barnabas]

Light Sensitive wrote:

one Q. why doesnt this site ever put a link in their articles so the reader can pursue it further? like a link to the study? Id like to see how the pol was skewed... as are all polls.

Go bury your head in the sand while the rest of us pray for you!!!!!

[Barnabas]

The Authority wrote:

The sad thing is more Americans read this crap pile of a book then pick up a science book. No wonder this country is getting dumber by the day.

And you are the authority on intelligent people?

And that is because?

[Kerdy 1]

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
You quoted the wrong post.
But anyway, you dodged my questions once again, and not with aplomb. I have the answer I need. You can't answer face the reality of your beliefs. I don't need to prove it. That's what it is. If the story of Jesus is not about vicarious redemption through torture and human sacrifice to appease a god, then what the hell is it? You're not moral, nor are you beliefs.
And like I KEEP SAYING, I DO hate Christianity, and religion in general. I've never denied that, and I don't care if you think it's hateful. You're beating a dead horse. I don't need to pretend I'm not, in order to get into Christian happyland. When will you admit that you are hateful as well?

Well, you summed it up perfectly. I dont think I need to add anything else for people to see the real you and your purpose here.

[Kerdy 1]

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah, it's clear to me. Crystal clear. You are trying to setup natural phenomena as being something mysterious, something that can't be proven or seen, so that you can then say that your god is in the same category. You're using a logical fallacy.

Really? Funny you say that because the whole gravity and wind thing, I got from you guys. Thanks for the insight. I find it humorous you dont like it when the exact same things you say are turned against you.

[Kerdy 1]

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
We know for a fact that those things exist. Do you deny that they exist? I see the sun, I can physically feel the wind push me, I can feel gravity pull on me, and that's not even getting into the scientific measurements of those things.

I know for a fact God exists. I see His affect on the world, the universe and man. I feel His presence all around me. I can feel His pull in my life and the direction He wants me to go. I have see my life changed simply by following His guidance. I have seen all the things that make people and this world good in scripture along with rules that are perfect for human nature. I see His Word unfold before my eyes on an almost daily basis as it has for thousands of years. And none of that is even getting into scientific measurments.

[Kerdy 1]

Reasoner wrote:

<quoted text>
Please, show me something in the natural world that can only be explained by your god.

Existance.

Have you ever stopped to think just how complicated life is? We can never create life from lifelessness, yet it exists. The same priciples of life apply to the whale as it also applies to the dust mite. Ever stop to wonder why there is no life on other planets? You would think that if life just "happened" here under the conditions on this planet required for our life forms, then other life forms that couldnt exist here would be on other planets. You seriously think that the Earth with its perfect balance and position in space just was an accident? Even the most respected scientists, after learning more and more, have said that there is a plan or pattern to life and in no way life would exist without that designer, whomever it is.

So, you show me something in the natural world that CANT be explained by God. Then we will talk.

[Reasoner]

Kerdy 1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Really? Funny you say that because the whole gravity and wind thing, I got from you guys. Thanks for the insight. I find it humorous you dont like it when the exact same things you say are turned against you.

Huh?