Will a Christian answer this rationally?

[madscot]

Jeff wrote:

<quoted text>
If you study the ancient past you will find your reasons did not lead to great good because of love of country, of society, of community. To do good to strangers requires a different belief than loving country or society.

No it doesn't. People do good because it's the right thing to do.

"Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"
Socrates

[Gillette]

Jeff wrote:

<quoted text>
If you study the ancient past you will find your reasons did not lead to great good because of love of country, of society, of community. To do good to strangers requires a different belief than loving country or society.

??????

Altruism is altruism.

[Rose_NoHo]

Jeff wrote:

<quoted text>
Just remember: what you see about the Bible is not based on the Bible but on what you imagine it. Many people dismiss it because it goes against their cherished beliefs that have no evidence for them.
If anyone wants to know the historicity of the Bible there are plenty of excellent resources. Let me give just one of hundreds.Its an old book but well worth the read. Its called EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT by McDowell. Read it if you really are wanting to know. If you don't it just shows that you really don't want the truth.

They buy-bull says plants were growing on the earth before there was a sun. I know that's BS.

[NorCal Native]

Jeff wrote:

<quoted text>
Does not say.

Why not? Why would God let Adam give his companion the name of Eve.......but God didn't fit to give man a name? Interesting......so, where did Adam get his name from?

[Rose_NoHo]

Jeff wrote:

<quoted text>
I never said atheist have no moral values. What i did say is that there is no objective moral foundation in atheism. An atheist cannot claim something is wrong morally because they have no objective moral standard by which to judge something as being right or wrong or better or worse. Its all subjective. Its all relative...

Fundies often make that claim, but you play the same game, just on a different field. How do you know what is right or wrong? Because the buy-bull says so? Should we torture people to death for working on Saturdays? Kill women who are raped, for being raped?

[Gillette]

Romans Road wrote:

Every time Gillette and the unbelievers know they're losing the debate, they always pull out the sheep/goat verses, lol.
Go read John chapter 10 for the best definition of sheep. Here's the link:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

Jesus says explicitly why the sheep are sheep and the goat goats in this passage.

And it has to do with selflessly doing good (altruism) without hope of reward or to lease an overbearing God.

Warren Buffet and BIll Gates would be sheep here and be led off into eternal life!

[Jeff]

madscot wrote:

<quoted text>
No it doesn't. People do good because it's the right thing to do.
"Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"
Socrates

If people "do good because it's the right thing to do" then why are our prisons filled to the brim and so much money is lost by businesses every year due to theft? If people "do good because it's the right thing to do" then why are there so many divorces and broken homes? If people "do good because it's the right thing to do" then why are over 1 million abortions a year?

[Romans Road]

Gillette wrote:

<quoted text>
Jesus says explicitly why the sheep are sheep and the goat goats in this passage.
And it has to do with selflessly doing good (altruism) without hope of reward or to lease an overbearing God.
Warren Buffet and BIll Gates would be sheep here and be led off into eternal life!

The sheep are saved Christians (saved by grace through faith in the shed blood of Jesus....which always results in good works)

The goats are unsaved (good works alone can never save a person)
==========
The bible teaches us that even our best works are as filthy rags in the eyes of a Holy God.

Isaiah 64:6- But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah 57:12- I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee.
==========
sheep= John 5:24- Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

goats= John 8:24- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.
==========

[madscot]

Jeff wrote:

<quoted text>
If people "do good because it's the right thing to do" then why are our prisons filled to the brim and so much money is lost by businesses every year due to theft? If people "do good because it's the right thing to do" then why are there so many divorces and broken homes? If people "do good because it's the right thing to do" then why are over 1 million abortions a year?

Why are you conflating things that have nothing to do with each other?

Maybe I should have been a little more specific. Good people do good things.

Yet none of that deals with the Euthyphro dilemna I presented to you. Care to address that?

[15th Dalai Lama]

NorCal Native wrote:

<quoted text>
Why not? Why would God let Adam give his companion the name of Eve.......but God didn't fit to give man a name? Interesting......so, where did Adam get his name from?

Adam isn't really his name. It means 'man'. Modern Bibles of any ingetrity translate it as such. Mine says 'hombre'. Eve apparently means 'life' and this is pointed out in Genesis 3:20.

Genesis 1, KJV, translates ha-adam as 'the man' but in Genesis 2 translates it as 'Adam'.

[Jeff]

NorCal Native wrote:

<quoted text>
Why not? Why would God let Adam give his companion the name of Eve.......but God didn't fit to give man a name? Interesting......so, where did Adam get his name from?

We don't know. Genesis is not an exhaustive account of everything that happened. Either Adam came up with this name or God did or Eve.

[GodSmacked]

15th Dalai Lama wrote:

<quoted text>
Adam isn't really his name. It means 'man'. Modern Bibles of any ingetrity translate it as such. Mine says 'hombre'. Eve apparently means 'life' and this is pointed out in Genesis 3:20.
Genesis 1, KJV, translates ha-adam as 'the man' but in Genesis 2 translates it as 'Adam'.

I learn something new every day. Thank you 15th.

[Jeff]

madscot wrote:

<quoted text>
Why are you conflating things that have nothing to do with each other?
Maybe I should have been a little more specific. Good people do good things.
Yet none of that deals with the Euthyphro dilemna I presented to you. Care to address that?

I was addressing your claim that people are not as good as you claim. If they were, the world would not be so messed up. Some people do some good while other do more evil than good.
There is a third option to the dilemma and that is goodness is rooted in the very nature of God. God commands what is in harmony with His nature.

[15th Dalai Lama]

Romans Road wrote:

<quoted text>
The sheep are saved Christians (saved by grace through faith in the shed blood of Jesus....which always results in good works)
The goats are unsaved (good works alone can never save a person)
==========
The bible teaches us that even our best works are as filthy rags in the eyes of a Holy God.
Isaiah 64:6- But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isaiah 57:12- I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee.
==========
sheep= John 5:24- Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
goats= John 8:24- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.
==========

That's the problem with the Bible. It says one thing in one place and something entirely different somewhere else.

It seems appropriate that leading a good and honest life would be rewarded but you seem to have decided believing unbelievable stuff is the only path to reward.

[Jeff]

Rose_NoHo wrote:

<quoted text>
Fundies often make that claim, but you play the same game, just on a different field. How do you know what is right or wrong? Because the buy-bull says so? Should we torture people to death for working on Saturdays? Kill women who are raped, for being raped?

I know right and wrong in 2 ways. One by conscience (which is fallible) and two, by Scripture (which is infallible). You really should study the Bible before you make stupid statements about it.

[Jeff]

Gillette wrote:

<quoted text>
Jesus says explicitly why the sheep are sheep and the goat goats in this passage.
And it has to do with selflessly doing good (altruism) without hope of reward or to lease an overbearing God.
Warren Buffet and BIll Gates would be sheep here and be led off into eternal life!

No they would not. How can Gates and Buffet be sheep when Jesus Himself said that His sheep hear His voice? How can someone who denies Christ hear His voice?

[madscot]

Jeff wrote:

I was addressing your claim that people are not as good as you claim.

I never made that claim. As I made clear in my second post, good people do good things.

Jeff wrote:

Some people do some good while other do more evil than good.

Sure but do good people do bad things sometimes? And vice versa.

Jeff wrote:

There is a third option to the dilemma and that is goodness is rooted in the very nature of God. God commands what is in harmony with His nature.

I think you misunderstand the dilemna. Is morality good because it just is and God just reminds you? Or is it good because God commands it?

[madscot]

Jeff wrote:

<quoted text>
I know right and wrong in 2 ways. One by conscience (which is fallible) and two, by Scripture (which is infallible). You really should study the Bible before you make stupid statements about it.

So why don't you stone people that work on the sabbath?

[Jeff]

madscot wrote:

<quoted text>
So why don't you stone people that work on the sabbath?

That was a law meant for the ancient Israelite'. No different than laws in England are not binding on us in America.

[NorCal Native]

15th Dalai Lama wrote:

<quoted text>
Adam isn't really his name. It means 'man'. Modern Bibles of any ingetrity translate it as such. Mine says 'hombre'. Eve apparently means 'life' and this is pointed out in Genesis 3:20.
Genesis 1, KJV, translates ha-adam as 'the man' but in Genesis 2 translates it as 'Adam'.

Thanks Dali......I was checking it out in both my bible and an online site.......In my King James Version, it states in Genesis 5:2, that God made them male and female and named called them Adam. The online site states that God called them both Adam!!!