Will a Christian answer this rational...

Since: Apr 11

Santa Monica, CA

#10846 Jan 2, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus is preparing a place for us Christians. And it's going to be wonderful!!!!
John 14:2-3
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Well, provide some evidence that this is happening. Buy-bull quotes don't count.

John from Texas

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

United States

#10847 Jan 2, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
In the atheist worldview, ultimate meaning does not exist. That's why for example we don't see any charities based on atheism in the past centuries. As for Christianity, there have been great charities that have helped millions of people over the centuries. Hospitals and schools were established by Christians in the past centuries based on Christian teachings and principles. You don't see these kinds of things happening with atheist-skeptics-agnostics and deists.
I see a lot of Catholic Hospitals, but you guys hate Catholics. I don't see any Jack van Impe, Pat Robinson, Jerry Fartwell, Arnold Murry, or Jerry Springer hospitals.
How much of that tithing money goes to drilling water wells compared to how much money goes to their personal real estate and jewels and suits.
Now I am not saying all the christian charities are bad, but how much corruption, greed, and killing has been done in the name of the "Lord". The belief in the shed blood of Jesus Christ has been horribly abused and I believe has caused more death than salvation. No wonder people that consider such things are skeptical. Can you understand that? You'll do a lot to fix the problem if you guys would just not blindly follow fools and evil megalomaniacs.
Let's get together and solve some problems. Understand that people don't all believe the same yet we all have things in common. Food, shelter and love in our hearts. Most people these days have the same needs. A little peace, love, and understanding goes a long way.
My idea of God is not your idea of God, but in the end it very much is the same God.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#10848 Jan 2, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Jeff, but you are just like others who can't see God, don't TRUST God and need to believe what the bible says in order to not go someplace......but hey, you have been given evidence that disproves your bible......and have given nothing that proves your bible is accurate or real........that's okay.......you keep believing as you do.......I'll believe as I do......and again, you give no evidence that the bible is anything but what you believe it is.......no links to back up your claims, and I just don't see the bible as anything but stories told through the ages and lost in translation!!!
Peace!!!
Just remember: what you see about the Bible is not based on the Bible but on what you imagine it. Many people dismiss it because it goes against their cherished beliefs that have no evidence for them.
If anyone wants to know the historicity of the Bible there are plenty of excellent resources. Let me give just one of hundreds.Its an old book but well worth the read. Its called EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT by McDowell. Read it if you really are wanting to know. If you don't it just shows that you really don't want the truth.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#10849 Jan 2, 2013
John from Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
I see a lot of Catholic Hospitals, but you guys hate Catholics. I don't see any Jack van Impe, Pat Robinson, Jerry Fartwell, Arnold Murry, or Jerry Springer hospitals.
How much of that tithing money goes to drilling water wells compared to how much money goes to their personal real estate and jewels and suits.
Now I am not saying all the christian charities are bad, but how much corruption, greed, and killing has been done in the name of the "Lord". The belief in the shed blood of Jesus Christ has been horribly abused and I believe has caused more death than salvation. No wonder people that consider such things are skeptical. Can you understand that? You'll do a lot to fix the problem if you guys would just not blindly follow fools and evil megalomaniacs.
Let's get together and solve some problems. Understand that people don't all believe the same yet we all have things in common. Food, shelter and love in our hearts. Most people these days have the same needs. A little peace, love, and understanding goes a long way.
My idea of God is not your idea of God, but in the end it very much is the same God.
My point was to show how Christianity has impacted mankind for good for the past 2000 years in comparison to atheism-skepticism-deism etc. There just is not really that much good fruit in those systems. Its sad.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#10850 Jan 2, 2013
justawounderin wrote:
<quoted text>

Thanks for Judging me and giving me that threat instead of defending your fictional god..Some people would call you a deluded prick, but I'll refrain from that..I sent the evidence that shows your god couldn't exist and you didn't even respond to it..Here it is again, if you don't agree tell me why, and stop the delusional threats and judgment you sent me last time..
"There is all kinds of evidence in nature to consider. The god of love your old book talks about could not create the savage design of life we witness in nature. Survival of the fittest with stronger predators brutally taunting their prey before they finely eat it is not consistent with your loving bible god creator god.."
How is your last paragraph evidence against the Christian God? I don't get it.

John from Texas

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

United States

#10851 Jan 2, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
My point was to show how Christianity has impacted mankind for good for the past 2000 years in comparison to atheism-skepticism-deism etc. There just is not really that much good fruit in those systems. Its sad.
You don't see it because you refuse to see it. Those systems produce much good fruit. You just have your blinders on. Atheism-skepticism-deism-Chris tianism all have much loving caring fruits bearing continuously. You don't want to see it or believe it, but it is there and we all benefit.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#10852 Jan 2, 2013
John from Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't see it because you refuse to see it. Those systems produce much good fruit. You just have your blinders on. Atheism-skepticism-deism-Chris tianism all have much loving caring fruits bearing continuously. You don't want to see it or believe it, but it is there and we all benefit.
Then show me what institutions for charity and education of the poor has Atheism-skepticism-deism produced on the principles of these systems?

John from Texas

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

United States

#10853 Jan 2, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Then show me what institutions for charity and education of the poor has Atheism-skepticism-deism produced on the principles of these systems?
It's not necessarily institutions. It's every day people doing their job, caring for their children, paying their taxes, volunteering at the soup kitchen or planting a garden. Sharing their fruits with others, neighbors, strangers, family, Helping out flood victims, earthquake victims, fire victims, and on and on and on. Who do you think all those people are? They are not just evangelical Christians. They are all kinds of people.
Where you been man?
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#10854 Jan 3, 2013
Your favourite religious charity is "Help a priest f**k a kid and get away with it for decades."
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
In the atheist worldview, ultimate meaning does not exist. That's why for example we don't see any charities based on atheism in the past centuries. As for Christianity, there have been great charities that have helped millions of people over the centuries. Hospitals and schools were established by Christians in the past centuries based on Christian teachings and principles. You don't see these kinds of things happening with atheist-skeptics-agnostics and deists.
Punisher

Tuckahoe, NY

#10855 Jan 3, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
It is impossible.

1.It has never been demonstrated that a law of nature can produce intelligence.

What you need to do to refute this is to show that it is possible since you are making the claim that it is possible. So...hop to it.
1.Well to take a page from the Fundy Believers play book and yours, prove it cant. Prove your claim.
Punisher

Tuckahoe, NY

#10856 Jan 3, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Then show me what institutions for charity and education of the poor has Atheism-skepticism-deism produced on the principles of these systems?
Why?

Charitable institutions under any guise - for any other reason but charity are irrelevant. IF the Religious Institution is doing it to buy-in, then its worthless to the institution and its people, and since institutions cant "save themselves" - who cares what the masthead says...?

All your arguments are irrelevant.

Again, atheism and most certainly skepticism is not generating principles.

skepticism is not an institution, nor is it ONLY aheists etc rely on in their lives...everyone is and should be skeptic...esp. when someone like YOU comes along and says they have the complete and absolute answer to everything.

But we know thru observation that there is a sector of society that seems to be missing the skepticism gene, and instead have a Kool-aid drinking one. Like you.

You and your kind are just too weak for true skepticism let alone atheism. It would make you cry to have to think and question things and not beg an imaginary friend for help and forgiveness for your actions.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque, NM

#10857 Jan 3, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Then show me what institutions for charity and education of the poor has Atheism-skepticism-deism produced on the principles of these systems?
I occaionally donate to 'Doctors Without Borders'.
They send emails thanking me for my money.

I occasionally donate to 'Catholic Relief Services International'.
They send me emails thanking me for my prayers.

I'll pray for you, Jeff, unless you'd rather I send you money.

God bless you.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#10858 Jan 3, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>Then show me what institutions for charity and education of the poor has Atheism-skepticism-deism produced on the principles of these systems?
>snip<
People sometimes say, or just imply, that atheists don't do charitable work like religious theists. This is supposed to demonstrate how much better theistic religion is than irreligious atheism. While it is true that there aren't any atheist "churches" running local soup kitchens, that doesn't mean that there aren't any atheists doing charity work -- some of whom are so prominent, they are missed.

Buffett an atheist. Warren Buffett, if you remember, is giving away 85% of his USD $40 billion fortune to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation for the charitable work they do. >>>>>Notice that he isn't giving it to any religious foundations<<<< and he isn't even giving to secular groups, like the United Way.

http://atheism.about.com/b/2006/07/07/warren-...

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#10859 Jan 3, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
How is your last paragraph evidence against the Christian God? I don't get it.
You don't get it because you have a closed mind about your so called "God of love" that you worship. A grade school kid would know love never creates brutality. Are you saying the the design of life you claim your bible god of love created isn't brutal? Here's what I posted again and you say you don't get

"There is all kinds of evidence in nature to consider. The god of love your old book talks about could not create the savage design of life we witness in nature. Survival of the fittest with stronger predators brutally taunting their prey before they finely eat it is not consistent with your loving bible god creator god.."

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#10860 Jan 3, 2013
justawounderin wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't get it because you have a closed mind about your so called "God of love" that you worship. A grade school kid would know love never creates brutality. Are you saying the the design of life you claim your bible god of love created isn't brutal? Here's what I posted again and you say you don't get
"There is all kinds of evidence in nature to consider. The god of love your old book talks about could not create the savage design of life we witness in nature. Survival of the fittest with stronger predators brutally taunting their prey before they finely eat it is not consistent with your loving bible god creator god.."
This goes along with something my mother started saying in her old age:
"Why does something have to die for something else to live?"

I guess some look at nature that way.
Yet, nature is designed to be that way.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#10861 Jan 3, 2013
justawounderin wrote:
<quoted text>
>snip<
People sometimes say, or just imply, that atheists don't do charitable work like religious theists. This is supposed to demonstrate how much better theistic religion is than irreligious atheism. While it is true that there aren't any atheist "churches" running local soup kitchens, that doesn't mean that there aren't any atheists doing charity work -- some of whom are so prominent, they are missed.
Buffett an atheist. Warren Buffett, if you remember, is giving away 85% of his USD $40 billion fortune to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation for the charitable work they do. >>>>>Notice that he isn't giving it to any religious foundations<<<< and he isn't even giving to secular groups, like the United Way.
http://atheism.about.com/b/2006/07/07/warren-...
Gates and Buffett are not giving because their atheism compels them to. They give because they have some compassion.
I never claimed atheists etc don't give. What I did say is that there is no reason to give because of atheism-skepticism-deism etc. There is nothing in these systems that compels someone to.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#10862 Jan 3, 2013
justawounderin wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't get it because you have a closed mind about your so called "God of love" that you worship. A grade school kid would know love never creates brutality. Are you saying the the design of life you claim your bible god of love created isn't brutal? Here's what I posted again and you say you don't get
"There is all kinds of evidence in nature to consider. The god of love your old book talks about could not create the savage design of life we witness in nature. Survival of the fittest with stronger predators brutally taunting their prey before they finely eat it is not consistent with your loving bible god creator god.."
You need to remember that this world is fallen. Its out of whack from the original intent of the Creator. That may be why there is "Survival of the fittest with stronger predators brutally taunting their prey before they finely eat it".
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#10863 Jan 3, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Why?
Charitable institutions under any guise - for any other reason but charity are irrelevant. IF the Religious Institution is doing it to buy-in, then its worthless to the institution and its people, and since institutions cant "save themselves" - who cares what the masthead says...?
All your arguments are irrelevant.
Again, atheism and most certainly skepticism is not generating principles.
skepticism is not an institution, nor is it ONLY aheists etc rely on in their lives...everyone is and should be skeptic...esp. when someone like YOU comes along and says they have the complete and absolute answer to everything.
But we know thru observation that there is a sector of society that seems to be missing the skepticism gene, and instead have a Kool-aid drinking one. Like you.
You and your kind are just too weak for true skepticism let alone atheism. It would make you cry to have to think and question things and not beg an imaginary friend for help and forgiveness for your actions.
Atheists-skeptics-deists etc for the most part don't organize into large group or institutions. Those like this are pretty much lone ranger types who don't want to organize and want to be left alone. There is no compelling reason to and its not in them to make the world a better place anyway.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#10864 Jan 3, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because every religion has a creation story does not mean its wrong. Science has a creation story to.
The Bible says in Genesis 1:1—“In the beginning, God created...”. There is a definite beginning to the universe here.
Wrong, and you ignored why.
Jeff wrote:
It is true that ancient peoples were unaware of galaxies etc. There were aware that there were countless stars in the sky and that God had created them also. In fact, before 1920 no one knew the universe was filled with billions and billions of galaxies.
And what the Bible says God created is NOT the universe.
Jeff wrote:
To get an idea of the fine tuning of the universe consider this:““If the balance between gravity and the expansion rate were altered by one part in one million, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, there would be no galaxies, stars, planets, or life.”
As we know them, anyway. We don't actually know what such universes would be like because we only have one universe to study.
Jeff wrote:
Second is the fine tuning of ratio of the electromagnetic force to the gravitational force. That must be balanced to one part in 10 to the 40th power. That is 1 with 40 zeroes following it.” Mark Whorton and Hill Roberts, Holman QuickSource Guide to Understanding Creation ((Nashville, TN: B&H Publishing, 2008), 308
And you're still assuming that life MUST exist in any universe. You might as well be assuming that tomorrow's lottery drawing MUST result in the numbered balls being drawn that will be drawn. Reality doesn't start with a plan and then fulfill it; reality occurs, and we can only look back at it to see how it occurred. If you can get away from the premise that we MUST be here, and can get away from the premise that we are somehow significant or important, then perhaps you can start understanding reality on REALITY'S terms.

I'm not even getting into your specious source material. The jokes write themselves. I needn't pile on.
Jeff wrote:
There is no current theory that I know of that says that anything in the universe is eternal. All mater and energy came into existence before the bang.
1: Your ignorance doesn't change reality.
2: I didn't ask if a theory says the energy is eternal; I said if it's POSSIBLE that the energy is eternal.
3: "Before the bang?" You clearly have no understanding of cosmology. You're so ignorant, you're incapable of carrying on a meaningful conversation on the subject.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#10866 Jan 3, 2013
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to remember that this world is fallen.
Baseless claim.
Jeff wrote:
Its out of whack from the original intent of the Creator.
Baseless claim about a baseless claim's baseless claim.
Jeff wrote:
That may be why there is "Survival of the fittest with stronger predators brutally taunting their prey before they finely eat it".
But, it definitely can't be the result of naturalistic processes, right? It simply MUST depend entirely upon your Bible stories. When you begin with the conclusion, you end up forcing the evidence to fit, and discarding any that you can't.

What is "confirmation bias?"

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