Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#366 May 4, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>No doubt...but IMO, its in spite of Xtian-dom, not truly because of it.
I dont doubt that many good people have done good works (uh oh!, works) and they say its because of their faith, or that their faith aided them, etc - but I ask you, is it because of their faith or simply because they are that type of person? Because IMO, there clearly is that type of Human as there are many others. Across denominations, and across the spectrum of hard-faith and soft-faith, or none at all.
People flock to the West not because of Xtianity - but for the Democratic ideals, the freedom to pursue their own choices, to do better than their parents, ancestors, etc...and while Xtianity has certainly been a part of those systems...its not exactly been the brightest-light of those systems.
And its certainly not a bright-light in the USA, where marginalizing and vilifying those immigrants, casting various peoples as outsiders and unworthy of American Democratic advantages, etc - has been the norm among the great Xtian population than has been the opposite. The first and usually the loudest voices not wanting any group or individuals to partake of their American civil rights has been Fundamentalist Xtians!
Funny how that exclusionary mindset developed in a country founded and built by immigrants.
The USA has spawned a unique protestant brand of religion, very clannish and very regional, battling anything not perceived to be from their own 'tribe'.

On the other hand, Catholicism is a Universal religion and we recognize our brothers and sisters from around the world as an image of the holy family looking for a place to stay.
Jesus commanded us to care for the homeless, disenfranchised and needy.

"And the king will say to them in reply,‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

Then he will say to those on his left,
‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
stranger and you gave me no welcome,
naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’

Then they will answer and say,‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’

He will answer them,‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ "
Matt.25

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#367 May 6, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Nope. Now youre just showing your ignorance of Xtian history, along with Western history. When Constantine legalized Xtianity there was no RCC, not as we would define it.
None of the lessons of Jesus were ever part the Great Machine of Xtian-doms wars on non-Xtian humanity. And it was the myriad sects of Protestantism in the West that were waging more of those wars on non-xtians across the globe, most especially here in the America's.
America is still the only "light of the world." Try living in Russia, China, Iran, Africa, etc. God blessed the entire world, both economically and spiritually, via these "evil" United States. He blessed the world even more via the people of Israel.:-)

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#368 May 6, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Because the US military is not a Religious tool! It was never formed as a means to promote or further Xtianity! Just like this nations courts and legislative bodes were not formed as altars of worship.
Contrary to what too many American Fundy Xtians believe, this nation is not in the business of collective worship and service to the Xtian God!
Get a F'n clue!
You missed the point. No one has the right to stop me from expressing my religious views, even if I am in the military. It was via a Christian friend witnessing to me and inviting me to church, while we were in the military, that led me to becoming a Christian.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#369 May 6, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>How is that that Believers like You don't see that You're just like the Pharisees you condemn? You are teaching your VERSION, your way, as the ONLY way...just like the Pharisees. You teach a version of the Bible that is just like the Pharisees. You think ONLY YOU see the right interpretation, the right way to obey the laws, etc.
You're a mini-me version of the Pharisees.
I, and my fellow believers are the exact opposite of Pharisees. I have studied their history and wrote a chapter about them. Someone, somewhere, has to be proclaiming the truth, don't they? Who has it? Where does it lie?

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#370 May 6, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>No doubt...but IMO, its in spite of Xtian-dom, not truly because of it.
I dont doubt that many good people have done good works (uh oh!, works) and they say its because of their faith, or that their faith aided them, etc - but I ask you, is it because of their faith or simply because they are that type of person? Because IMO, there clearly is that type of Human as there are many others. Across denominations, and across the spectrum of hard-faith and soft-faith, or none at all.
People flock to the West not because of Xtianity - but for the Democratic ideals, the freedom to pursue their own choices, to do better than their parents, ancestors, etc...and while Xtianity has certainly been a part of those systems...its not exactly been the brightest-light of those systems.
And its certainly not a bright-light in the USA, where marginalizing and vilifying those immigrants, casting various peoples as outsiders and unworthy of American Democratic advantages, etc - has been the norm among the great Xtian population than has been the opposite. The first and usually the loudest voices not wanting any group or individuals to partake of their American civil rights has been Fundamentalist Xtians!
Take heart. Your Socio-Marxist Utopia will be here soon enough. The messiah you seek, will lead the way to your one-world government and religion via social and economic justice. "We are the world, we are the children..."
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#371 May 6, 2013
He is Coming Soon wrote:
<quoted text>I, and my fellow believers are the exact opposite of Pharisees. I have studied their history and wrote a chapter about them. Someone, somewhere, has to be proclaiming the truth, don't they? Who has it? Where does it lie?
The Pharisees were self-righteous Bible bangers just like you. They knew the Torah inside and out. They thought they knew exactly what "God" wanted just like you and weren't afraid to condemn those who didn't see things their way.
little lamb

Australia

#372 May 6, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
The Pharisees were self-righteous Bible bangers just like you. They knew the Torah inside and out. They thought they knew exactly what "God" wanted just like you and weren't afraid to condemn those who didn't see things their way.
Seems to me it was Jesus that preached Gods word..not the Pharisees . Jesus actually stated they had put their own traditions in ..

I suspect you are a little confused in knowing the scriptures..
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#373 May 6, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
The Pharisees were self-righteous Bible bangers just like you. They knew the Torah inside and out. They thought they knew exactly what "God" wanted just like you and weren't afraid to condemn those who didn't see things their way.
So tell me.
Since this thread is about those damned Chechnyan Boston bombers, Where do you think they should bury Tamarlan's body?

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#374 May 7, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
The Pharisees were self-righteous Bible bangers just like you. They knew the Torah inside and out. They thought they knew exactly what "God" wanted just like you and weren't afraid to condemn those who didn't see things their way.
Ah, but the difference is that I see things God's way, not my own.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#375 May 7, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems to me it was Jesus that preached Gods word..not the Pharisees . Jesus actually stated they had put their own traditions in ..
I suspect you are a little confused in knowing the scriptures..
Yep. The RCC is the New Testament mirror-image of the Old Testament Pharisees. Pharisees offer legalistic solutions to salvation, which leave us in bondage. Jesus gave us LIBERTY!
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#376 May 7, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems to me it was Jesus that preached Gods word..not the Pharisees . Jesus actually stated they had put their own traditions in ..
I suspect you are a little confused in knowing the scriptures..
During the time of Jesus “God’s” word was the Torah and the Pharisees knew it backwards and forwards and thought they understood exactly what “God” wanted because of it. The Christians of today know the New Testament backwards and forwards and think they know exactly what “God” wants because of it. The similarities are uncanny.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#377 May 7, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
So tell me.
Since this thread is about those damned Chechnyan Boston bombers, Where do you think they should bury Tamarlan's body?
It doesn’t matter to me what they do with his body. There is now one less religious fanatic in the world trying to please his “God” and that’s a good thing.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#378 May 7, 2013
He is Coming Soon wrote:
<quoted text>Ah, but the difference is that I see things God's way, not my own.
I think that if you were able to go back in time and question a Pharisee about his religious beliefs he would repeat your statement verbatim.
little lamb

Australia

#379 May 8, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
During the time of Jesus “God’s” word was the Torah and the Pharisees knew it backwards and forwards and thought they understood exactly what “God” wanted because of it. The Christians of today know the New Testament backwards and forwards and think they know exactly what “God” wants because of it. The similarities are uncanny.
Jesus had an answer for that as well didn't he ..?

Matthew 23:23

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin.

But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--

justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."

It wasn't the fact they knew the scriptures but the fact they were neglecting parts of it..
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#380 May 9, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus had an answer for that as well didn't he ..?
Matthew 23:23
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin.
But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--
justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former."
It wasn't the fact they knew the scriptures but the fact they were neglecting parts of it..
And those words would also apply to today’s “Bible experts” who spout Bible verses, say their prayers, attend Sunday services and think themselves holier-than-everybody else just like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day. I think Jesus was a very intelligent person who saw through the self-righteous “Bible experts” of his day and would see through all of the self-righteous “Bible experts” of this day too.

"A great deal of what passes for current Christianity consists in denouncing other people's vices and faults." ~Henry H. Williams
little lamb

Australia

#381 May 9, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
And those words would also apply to today’s “Bible experts” who spout Bible verses, say their prayers, attend Sunday services and think themselves holier-than-everybody else just like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day. I think Jesus was a very intelligent person who saw through the self-righteous “Bible experts” of his day and would see through all of the self-righteous “Bible experts” of this day too.
"A great deal of what passes for current Christianity consists in denouncing other people's vices and faults." ~Henry H. Williams
People who are in sin, don't like to be told to repent...and thats why they call others self-righteous..

But it don't work any more..because Jesus himself went preaching . repent and have faith in the good news.

problem is those who practice sin and love their sin..don;t won't to repent..do they?

And they want others to condone wrong behavior..but condoning is wrong just as condemning and judging

So we can't condone evil wicked actions but Jesus said he has come to call sinners to repentance.

But a Christian is wrong if they consent to wicked actions

Psalm 50:17-19

“Seeing you hate instruction and cast My words behind you? When you saw a thief, you consented with him, and have been a partaker with adulterers. You give your mouth to evil, and your tongue frames deceit.”
nc resident

Charlotte, NC

#382 May 9, 2013
He is Coming Soon wrote:
<quoted text>Ah, but the difference is that I see things God's way, not my own.
That is impossible...unless you are claiming to be God.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#383 May 9, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
People who are in sin, don't like to be told to repent...and thats why they call others self-righteous..
But it don't work any more..because Jesus himself went preaching . repent and have faith in the good news.
problem is those who practice sin and love their sin..don;t won't to repent..do they?
And they want others to condone wrong behavior..but condoning is wrong just as condemning and judging
So we can't condone evil wicked actions but Jesus said he has come to call sinners to repentance.
But a Christian is wrong if they consent to wicked actions
Psalm 50:17-19
“Seeing you hate instruction and cast My words behind you? When you saw a thief, you consented with him, and have been a partaker with adulterers. You give your mouth to evil, and your tongue frames deceit.”
The Pharisees were certain their knowledge of the Scriptures enabled them to know the sinners from the righteous but it also very obviously blinded them to their own self-righteousness.

"The self-righteous rule out the possibility that they are what has gone wrong." - Mason Cooley
little lamb

Australia

#384 May 9, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
The Pharisees were certain their knowledge of the Scriptures enabled them to know the sinners from the righteous but it also very obviously blinded them to their own self-righteousness.
"The self-righteous rule out the possibility that they are what has gone wrong." - Mason Cooley
That is why a Christian is told that if they are not willing to die for Christ they are not worthy of him

Because 'self' righteousness, is a righteousness based on ones own ideas..but God declares the one righteous who exercises faith in his son.

So it is the WORD of God that has authority to tell us what a sin is

And a man laying with a man the same as a woman is an abomination to God...so that is not self righteousness..that's preaching Gods word...

So you can call anyone what you want ..but the Law is written..and anyone can check it.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#385 May 9, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
That is why a Christian is told that if they are not willing to die for Christ they are not worthy of him
Because 'self' righteousness, is a righteousness based on ones own ideas..but God declares the one righteous who exercises faith in his son.
So it is the WORD of God that has authority to tell us what a sin is
And a man laying with a man the same as a woman is an abomination to God...so that is not self righteousness..that's preaching Gods word...
So you can call anyone what you want ..but the Law is written..and anyone can check it.
No, self-righteousness is the same for you as it was for the Pharisees. They read the word of “God” and were certain their understanding of it was right and any different understanding was wrong. Christians today read the New Testament and are certain that their understanding is right and any different understanding is wrong. Both only have human language from an ancient book to go by.

"Man has the power of making books, inventing stories of God, and calling them revelation, or the Word of God....Books, whether Bibles or Korans, carry no evidence of being the work of any other power than man....Human language is local and changeable, and is therefore incapable of being used as the means of unchangeable and universal information." - Thomas Paine

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