"Chechnyan" suspects...
little lamb

Saint Albans, Australia

#324 May 1, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Its no use trying to use ad hominem attacks because they don't distract from the fact ..that you are trying to pass the pope of , as some successor to Peter..
but Peter is established on the foundation that has been laid with Christ and his Apostles..and you can't set up another church ..congregation..body ..in opposition to the one Christ laid.
He handpicked his twelve Apostles..they are the foundation stones..
We are built upon them..not INSTEAD of them...
Also Christians are commanded from scripture

Ephesians 2 [20] You have been built upon the foundation of thev Apostles and Prophets , while Christ is the foundation cornerstone..'

So its pretty clear that the Prophets are those of the OT..their words are the 'prophetic scriptures'..and the Apostles..we have their witness and writing accounts, and Jesus Christ, and as he said ' his words , which are spirit and truth..

This is what we are built upon...not some men in Rome who had mistresses, commanded crusades..burned people at the stake and today hid child sexual abuse..these men are not the foundation stones ..they are a false Christ and a cult that promotes itself , instead of Jesus as KING.

Their system is part of the man of lawlessness, that sits in the temple of God, proclaiming he is a god [ another name for ruler,] instead of being a servant as Jesus told his Apostles to be.'
Al Cal

Grand Rapids, MN

#325 May 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Again they appointed someone to take Judas place because his defection cost him his office..
but the rest of the Apostles still retain their office...no one is equal in office to them
God has set the members in the body ..first Apostles..
1 Corinthians 12 [28]
Nobody takes or succeeds the Apostles..because Jesus told them ' the gates of hell shall not prevail over his body.'
'For I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.'
If you believe that you are saved through the crucifixion of Jesus then you should revere Judas as the most important apostle. Without his actions you would not be saved.

"Why do not the Christians, to be consistent, make saints of Judas and Pontius Pilate? For they were the persons who accomplished the act of salvation.”- Thomas Paine
He is Coming Soon

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#326 May 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
And that is not all ..they have several mediators between God and Christ..they had a saint for nearly everything
They made mary an mediator , against scripture that states there is only one mediator between God and men
Jesus taught us to pray " our father in heaven.."
they taught people to address their prayers to mary..
next they did the opposite Jesus teaches..Jesus said ' don't say the same words over and over again..' yet they came out with the rosary..its a corrupt religious system
By the way I have no doubt there are true Christian caught up in her clutches..God says ' come out of her my people."
Yes, the "saints" are the pagan version of many gods. The word of God is very clear: We are saints - hear and now! Paul addressed all believers in Jesus Christ as saints in all of his epistles. It was the manmade traditions of Catholicism which altered that. Soon, Pope John Paul will be canonized as a saint. Odd, that no mention has been made of the 2nd miracle he needs to be ascribed to him for this to happen. No doubt it will be invented as the first one was.
He is Coming Soon

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#327 May 2, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Yet the system you describe is so arbitrary to be like a gathering of children who suddenly decide one of the Leader kids is on the outs.
Its a group system like any other open to politics and money, and influence where a pastor, especially the more Charismatic ones who find a nice core group of sycophants to protect him...making it no more or less better/worse than a big organizations insular system of protecting the status quo.
Whats the metric for measuring obedience? If we're all sinners all the time, how and when and who is measuring a pastors status? Is there a measuring/progress board in the church? One with people doing the investigation, and another that graphically shows (for the members) where their pastor stands, kind of like a funds drive earnings graphic? "We've collected up to M, but we need to reach Z."
And we have all seen the stories where a Pastor and his core group abuse the shyte out of their "Commission", and even when found out, many church members see no wrong.
How exactly does anyone measure the answering to God part too?
Basically the whole thing is arbitrary and wholly subjective...
Like our justice system. It's not perfect, but it's the best we have available.
He is Coming Soon

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#328 May 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
And that is not all ..they have several mediators between God and Christ..they had a saint for nearly everything
They made mary an mediator , against scripture that states there is only one mediator between God and men
Jesus taught us to pray " our father in heaven.."
they taught people to address their prayers to mary..
next they did the opposite Jesus teaches..Jesus said ' don't say the same words over and over again..' yet they came out with the rosary..its a corrupt religious system
By the way I have no doubt there are true Christian caught up in her clutches..God says ' come out of her my people."
Amen. As a Catholic, I read the Gospel and accepted it. After reading the Bible on my own and reviewing Catholic dogma, I knew I was to leave the RCC behind. You either believe and obey the written word of God, or you believe and obey the Roman Catholic Church. For they oppose each other. I now see the trappings and deceptions of the Church of Rome, and pray those caught in its web of deceit see it also.
He is Coming Soon

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#329 May 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes the scriptures you use are referring to the BODY of Christ...which we are told is founded on Christ and the Apostles...
So where does it say in scripture its founded on Roman succession???
She will not see what we see. She will debate until the Lord comes again.
He is Coming Soon

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#330 May 2, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
The Primacy of Peter
Isaiah 22:15-25 - Prophecy of the Catholic Papacy foretold in the Old Testament
Matthew 16:18 - Upon this rock (Peter) I will build my Church. And the gates of Hell can never overpower it
Note: Our Protestant brethren will say to understand Matthew 16:18, we have to get behind the English to the Greek. They will go on to say in Greek, the word for rock is petra, which means a large, massive stone. The word used for Simon’s new name is different; it’s Petros, which means a little stone, a pebble.
The Catholic reply is to understand Matthew 16:18, we have to get behind the Greek to the Aramaic.
Although we don't know if the original Biblical manuscripts were in Aramaic or not, many scholars believe Our Lord probably spoke Aramaic because it was the native tongue for Jesus' immediate disciples.
In Aramaic there is only one word for "rock": Kepha. So he would have said:
"Blessed are you Simon bar Jonah, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you but my Heavenly Father. So I say to you thou are "Kepha" and upon this "Kepha" I will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it."
The only manuscripts we have of Matthew are written in Greek but Greek scholars—even non-Catholic ones—admit, the words petros and petra were synonyms in first century Greek. They meant "small stone" and "large rock" in some ancient Greek poetry, centuries before the time of Christ, but that distinction had disappeared from the language by the time Matthew’s Gospel was rendered in Greek. The difference in meaning can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New Testament was written in Koine Greek—an entirely different dialect. In Koine Greek, both petros and petra simply meant "rock." If Jesus had wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek lithos would have been used.
Matthew 16:19 - I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven: whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven
Luke 22:32 - Peter's faith will strengthen his brethren.(Note: The word "you" {I have prayed for "you"} in Greek is in the personal tense, not the plural "you" like 'all you apostles' tense.)
John 21:17 - Given Christ's flock as chief shepherd
Mark 6:7 - angel sent to announce the Resurrection to Peter
Luke 24:34 - Risen Jesus first appeared to Peter
Acts 1:13-26 - Peter headed meeting which elected Matthias to replace Judas
Acts 2:14 - Peter lead Apostles in preaching on Pentecost
Acts 2:41 - Peter received the first converts
Acts 3:6-7 - Peter performed the first miracle after Pentecost
Acts 5:1-11 - Peter inflicted the first punishment: Ananias and Saphira
Acts 8:21 - Peter excommunicated the first heretic, Simon Magnus
Acts 10:44-46 - Peter received a revelation to admit the Gentles into the Church
Acts 15 - Peter lead the first Catholic council in Jerusalem
Acts 15:7-12 - Peter spoke saying: "My brothers, he said,.... But we believe that we are saved in the same way as they are: through the grace of the Lord Jesus." The entire assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul describing all the signs and wonders God had worked through them among the gentiles." (pronounces the first dogmatic decision)
Galatians 1:18 - after his conversion, Paul visits the chief Apostle
Matthew 10:1-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-16, Acts 1:13 - Peter's name always heads the list of Apostles
Luke 9:32, Luke 8:46, Mark 16:7 - Peter and his companions
Matthew 18:21, Mark 8:29, Luke 12:41, John 6:69 - Peter spoke for the Apostles
Peter is mentioned 191 times in the New Testament. All the other apostles names combined are mentioned only 130 times. And the most commonly referenced apostle apart from Peter is John, whose name appears 48 times.
You probably believe the book "Pope Fiction" was historically accurate. It pretty much tells us all the popes were holy men, and none lived lives of degradation, despite factual historical evidence to the contrary.
He is Coming Soon

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#331 May 2, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no difference, The Catholic Church is who brought you Christianity.
BUT YOU have confused protestantism as an acceptable alternative to protest following The Way in The Church That Jesus Built.
I trashed Protestants in another e-book: www.scribd.com/doc/22629976 ...
I am an equal opportunity spiritual offender!
He is Coming Soon

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#332 May 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Again they appointed someone to take Judas place because his defection cost him his office..
but the rest of the Apostles still retain their office...no one is equal in office to them
God has set the members in the body ..first Apostles..
1 Corinthians 12 [28]
Nobody takes or succeeds the Apostles..because Jesus told them ' the gates of hell shall not prevail over his body.'
'For I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.'
Nettie always balks at my pointing out Acts 8, where it shows the apostles stayed in Jerusalem, while all the other believers went out to preach the Gospel. How arrogant those "lowly" Christians must have been, huh Nettie? After all, "peons" in the Kingdom of God, can't be trusted to carry out the Great Commission, properly, right?
He is Coming Soon

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#333 May 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Again they appointed someone to take Judas place because his defection cost him his office..
but the rest of the Apostles still retain their office...no one is equal in office to them
God has set the members in the body ..first Apostles..
1 Corinthians 12 [28]
Nobody takes or succeeds the Apostles..because Jesus told them ' the gates of hell shall not prevail over his body.'
'For I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.'
And who is ALWAYS referred to in Holy Scripture as a "rock?" GOD, not man!!!

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#334 May 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Also Christians are commanded from scripture
Ephesians 2 [20] You have been built upon the foundation of thev Apostles and Prophets , while Christ is the foundation cornerstone..'
So its pretty clear that the Prophets are those of the OT..their words are the 'prophetic scriptures'..and the Apostles..we have their witness and writing accounts, and Jesus Christ, and as he said ' his words , which are spirit and truth..
This is what we are built upon...not some men in Rome who had mistresses, commanded crusades..burned people at the stake and today hid child sexual abuse..these men are not the foundation stones ..they are a false Christ and a cult that promotes itself , instead of Jesus as KING.
Their system is part of the man of lawlessness, that sits in the temple of God, proclaiming he is a god [ another name for ruler,] instead of being a servant as Jesus told his Apostles to be.'


Its no use trying to use ad hominem attacks because they don't distract from the facts.

Council of Ephesus

"Philip, the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See [Rome], said:‘There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors’" (Acts of the Council, session 3 [A.D. 431]).

Cyprian of Carthage

"The Lord says to Peter:‘I say to you,’ he says,‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven ...’[Matt. 16:18–19]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair.... If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

"There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewhere is scattering" (Letters 43[40]:5 [A.D. 253]).

"There [John 6:68–69] speaks Peter, upon whom the Church would be built, teaching in the name of the Church and showing that even if a stubborn and proud multitude withdraws because it does not wish to obey, yet the Church does not withdraw from Christ. The people joined to the priest and the flock clinging to their shepherd are the Church. You ought to know, then, that the bishop is in the Church and the Church in the bishop, and if someone is not with the bishop, he is not in the Church. They vainly flatter themselves who creep up, not having peace with the priests of God, believing that they are
secretly [i.e., invisibly] in communion with certain individuals. For the Church, which is one and Catholic, is not split nor divided, but it is indeed united and joined by the cement of priests who adhere one to another" (ibid., 66[69]:8).
little lamb

Maribyrnong, Australia

#337 May 2, 2013
He is Coming Soon wrote:
<quoted text>Amen. As a Catholic, I read the Gospel and accepted it. After reading the Bible on my own and reviewing Catholic dogma, I knew I was to leave the RCC behind. You either believe and obey the written word of God, or you believe and obey the Roman Catholic Church. For they oppose each other. I now see the trappings and deceptions of the Church of Rome, and pray those caught in its web of deceit see it also.
I believe , the new Jerusalem is seen coming down out of heaven dressed as a bride..so i know new Jerusalem is a city...but here she is shown coming down out of heaven dressed as a bride because she has made herself ready...this is the return of Christ with all the Holy Ones with him..

On the other hand Babylon the Great in scripture is likened to a city , having a Kingdom over the Kings of the earth

so here are two cities in direct contrast...one comes down out of heaven prepared and dressed as a bride..and the other is on the earth now wielding influence over Kings [rulers]

We are told ' come out of her my people'

So god has people in this earthly city that misleads the nations by her ' spiristic practices' and the merchants of the earth have become rich from her buying their stock..

So the Vatican is a city ..isn't it..very rich one at that...

Come out of her my people...is the call..
little lamb

Maribyrnong, Australia

#338 May 2, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Its no use trying to use ad hominem attacks because they don't distract from the facts.
Council of Ephesus
"Philip, the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See [Rome], said:‘There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors’" (Acts of the Council, session 3 [A.D. 431]).
Cyprian of Carthage
"The Lord says to Peter:‘I say to you,’ he says,‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven ...’[Matt. 16:18–19]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair.... If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).
"There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewhere is scattering" (Letters 43[40]:5 [A.D. 253]).
"There [John 6:68–69] speaks Peter, upon whom the Church would be built, teaching in the name of the Church and showing that even if a stubborn and proud multitude withdraws because it does not wish to obey, yet the Church does not withdraw from Christ. The people joined to the priest and the flock clinging to their shepherd are the Church. You ought to know, then, that the bishop is in the Church and the Church in the bishop, and if someone is not with the bishop, he is not in the Church. They vainly flatter themselves who creep up, not having peace with the priests of God, believing that they are
secretly [i.e., invisibly] in communion with certain individuals. For the Church, which is one and Catholic, is not split nor divided, but it is indeed united and joined by the cement of priests who adhere one to another" (ibid., 66[69]:8).
First of all Nettie ..the word Catholic church..is not found in scripture

The scripture calls the congregation the BODY of CHRIST..and scripture tells us ' it is by divine providence in Antioch, they were first called Christians'

and Peter tells us " To keep glorifying God in that name."

So the 'church' is not universal...its owned by Christ Jesus

In fact the Body of Christ ..is his arms legs hands toes etc..

He said to Saul..' why are you persecuting me' because Jesus is in his BODY...reconciling a world to HIM.

Secondly Peter is not or ever been the head of the church ' BODY' of Christ

In fact scripture says Jesus is the HEAD OF the Body

Colossians 1 [18]and he is head of the BODY the congregation....."

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#339 May 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe , the new Jerusalem is seen coming down out of heaven dressed as a bride..so i know new Jerusalem is a city...but here she is shown coming down out of heaven dressed as a bride because she has made herself ready...this is the return of Christ with all the Holy Ones with him..
On the other hand Babylon the Great in scripture is likened to a city , having a Kingdom over the Kings of the earth
so here are two cities in direct contrast...one comes down out of heaven prepared and dressed as a bride..and the other is on the earth now wielding influence over Kings [rulers]
We are told ' come out of her my people'
So god has people in this earthly city that misleads the nations by her ' spiristic practices' and the merchants of the earth have become rich from her buying their stock..
So the Vatican is a city ..isn't it..very rich one at that...
Come out of her my people...is the call..
Actually, the Vatican is a country.
Not a city that is a part of another country, but a country unto itself, about 150 acres in size and a population of around a thousand people.

Babylon is a code word for Rome used in the Bible many, many times.

The majority of the over ONE BILLION Catholics live all over earth, hon.
Hallelujah

Dayton, VA

#340 May 2, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, the Vatican is a country.
Not a city that is a part of another country, but a country unto itself, about 150 acres in size and a population of around a thousand people.
Babylon is a code word for Rome used in the Bible many, many times.
The majority of the over ONE BILLION Catholics live all over earth, hon.
You are correct, for a change.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#341 May 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Its no use trying to use ad hominem attacks because they don't distract from the fact ..that you are trying to pass the pope of , as some successor to Peter..
but Peter is established on the foundation that has been laid with Christ and his Apostles..and you can't set up another church ..congregation..body ..in opposition to the one Christ laid.
He handpicked his twelve Apostles..they are the foundation stones..
We are built upon them..not INSTEAD of them...
You need instruction in the ways of God and the plan for Jesus Christ's church on earth.
The Catholic Church.

765
The Lord Jesus endowed his community with a structure that will remain until the Kingdom is fully achieved.
Before all else there is the choice of the Twelve with Peter as their head.168
Representing the twelve tribes of Israel, they are the foundation stones of the new Jerusalem.169 The Twelve and the other disciples share in Christ's mission and his power, but also in his lot.170
By all his actions, Christ prepares and builds his Church.
168. Cf. Mk 3:14-15
169. Cf. Mt 19:28; Lk 22:30; Rev 21:12-14
170. Cf. Mk 6:7; Lk 10:1-2; Mt 10:25; Jn 15:20

788
When his visible presence was taken from them, Jesus did not leave his disciples orphans. He promised to remain with them until the end of time; he sent them his Spirit.218 As a result communion with Jesus has become, in a way, more intense:
"By communicating his Spirit, Christ mystically constitutes as his body those brothers of his who are called together from every nation."219
218. Cf. Jn 14:18; 20:22; Mt 28:20; Acts 2:33
219. LG 7

791
The body's unity does not do away with the diversity of its members:… The unity of the Mystical Body triumphs over all human divisions: "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."224
224. Gal 3:27-28

2038
In the work of teaching and applying Christian morality, the Church needs the dedication of pastors, the knowledge of theologians, and the contribution of all Christians and men of good will. Faith and the practice of the Gospel provide each person with an experience of life "in Christ," who enlightens him and makes him able to evaluate the divine and human realities according to the Spirit of God.80
Thus the Holy Spirit can use the humblest to enlighten the learned and those in the highest positions. 80. Cf. 1 Cor 2:10-15

772
It is in the Church that Christ fulfills and reveals his own mystery as the purpose of God's plan: "to unite all things in him."189 St. Paul calls the nuptial union of Christ and the Church "a great mystery." Because she is united to Christ as to her bridegroom, she becomes a mystery in her turn.190 Contemplating this mystery in her, Paul exclaims: "Christ in you, the hope of glory."191 189. Eph 1:10
190. Eph 5:32; 3:9-11; 5:25-27
191. Col 1:27

796
The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the two within a personal relationship. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. The theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist.234 The Lord referred to himself as the "bridegroom."235 The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride "betrothed" to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him.236
234. Jn 3:29
235. Mk 2:19
236. Cf. Mt 22:1-14; 25:1-13; 1 Cor 6:15-17; 2 Cor 11:2

(Catechism of The Catholic Church)
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#342 May 2, 2013
Al Cal wrote:
<quoted text>
If you believe that you are saved through the crucifixion of Jesus then you should revere Judas as the most important apostle. Without his actions you would not be saved.
"Why do not the Christians, to be consistent, make saints of Judas and Pontius Pilate? For they were the persons who accomplished the act of salvation.”- Thomas Paine
That neither you nor Tom don't understand the ways of God is not surprising.
Judas, Herod and Pontius Pilate were just some of the players bringing God's plan forward.
Don't over estimate their net worth.

600
To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy.

When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of "predestination," he includes in it each person's free response to his grace:
"In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."395

For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396

395. Acts 4:27-28; cf. Ps 2:1-2
396. Cf. Mt 26:54; Jn 18:36; 19:11; Acts 3:17-18

(CCC)
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#343 May 2, 2013
He is Coming Soon wrote:
<quoted text>I trashed Protestants in another e-book:...
I am an equal opportunity spiritual offender!
Yes, you have made yourself into a spiritual offender.
Jesus weeps.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#344 May 2, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all Nettie ..the word Catholic church..is not found in scripture......"
Neither are the words protestant or Bible found in scripture.
Big Al

Grand Rapids, MN

#345 May 3, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
That neither you nor Tom don't understand the ways of God is not surprising.
Judas, Herod and Pontius Pilate were just some of the players bringing God's plan forward.
Don't over estimate their net worth.
600
To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy.
When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of "predestination," he includes in it each person's free response to his grace:
"In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."395
For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396
395. Acts 4:27-28; cf. Ps 2:1-2
396. Cf. Mt 26:54; Jn 18:36; 19:11; Acts 3:17-18
(CCC)
According to your own beliefs your “God” demanded retribution for the sins of humanity. None of what you wrote changes the fact that according to your own beliefs if Judas and Pilot had not chosen to act in the way they did you would not have been saved; you would have been required to pay the price for your sins.

"Redemption: Deliverance of sinners from the penalty of their sins through the murder of their deity against whom they sinned." -Ambrose Bierce

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