"Chechnyan" suspects...

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#304 May 1, 2013
Do Gays have tails wrote:
<quoted text>YOU MIGHT ONE TO GO TO YOUR MOM'S GRAVE SITE. Check to see if you has a tail, if so then she was gay. I think she was gay. Rose says that she has a tail and that it is long since it is measured in abuse years.
How come you are walking the streets amongst normal sane people doc, surely you are not allowed access to a computer in your padded cell? The medical profession would need to invent a new word to describe your extreme type of mental illness. You are one very sick individual!
little lamb

Park Orchards, Australia

#305 May 1, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Then why were the books of the New Testament, that already MADE up the New Testament, acceptable during the Reformation?
Why weren't any of those books rejected during the Reformation?
You know, it was the Catholic Church who determined those books already making up the New Testament to be inspired.
Not the folks involved in the Reformation.
I have no doubt that there were many good Christians amongst the catholic system..but Jesus didn't come to set up a religious system..he came to mediate a new covenant between God and men..

His church ..congregation...ecclessia..ar e his bride ...his called out ones , and are not to be part of this world.

The bridegroom is the one that has the bride.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#306 May 1, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no doubt that there were many good Christians amongst the catholic system..but Jesus didn't come to set up a religious system..he came to mediate a new covenant between God and men..
His church ..congregation...ecclessia..ar e his bride ...his called out ones , and are not to be part of this world.
The bridegroom is the one that has the bride.
The Church

Matthew 16:13-20 - Upon this rock I will build my Church
Matthew 18:17-18 - if he refuses to listen even to the Church ...(shows the importance of obeying and consequences of disobeying the Church)
Matthew 28:18-20 - Go Baptize and teach all nations ...(the Church's mission)
Mark 16:16 - Go to the whole world and proclaim the gospel.
Luke 10:16 - Whoever hears you, hears me, he who rejects you, rejects me.
John 14:16,16, 26 - Holy Spirit will be with you always to teach and reminder you of everything.
John 16:12 - the Spirit of Truth with guide you to all truth.
1 Timothy 3:15 - Church is the pillar and foundation of truth

The Church is the Body of Christ

Romans 12:4-5 - though many, we are one body in Christ
1 Corinthians 6:15 - don't you know that your bodies are members of Christ
1 Corinthians 12:20-27 - you are Christ's body, individually parts of it
Ephesians 5:30 - we are members of his body
Colossians 1:18 - He is the head of the Body, the Church

The Church must be one.

John 10:16 - there shall be one fold and one shepherd
John 17:17-23 - I pray that they may be one, as we are one
John 17:23 - that they may be brought to perfection as one
Romans 12:5 - we, though many, are one body in Christ
Romans 15:5 - God grant you to think in harmony with one another
Romans 16:17 - avoid those who create dissensions
1 Corinthians 1:10 - I urge you that there be no divisions among you
1 Corinthians 12:13 - in one spirit we were baptized into one body
Ephesians 4:4-6 -There is one Body, one Spirit, just as one hope is the goal of your calling by God. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all, over all, through all and within all.
Philippians 2:2 - be of same mind, united in heart, thinking one thing
Colossians 3:15 - the peace into which you were called in one body

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#307 May 1, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no doubt that there were many good Christians amongst the catholic system..but Jesus didn't come to set up a religious system..he came to mediate a new covenant between God and men..
His church ..congregation...ecclessia..ar e his bride ...his called out ones , and are not to be part of this world.
The bridegroom is the one that has the bride.
The Church is Apostolic

Matthew 16:13-20 - Jesus built his Church on Peter, the rock (foretold in the OT: Isaiah 22:15-25)
Luke 22:29-30 - I confer a kingdom on you, just as my Father conferred one on me: you will eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and you will sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:32 - Peter appointed to be the chief shepherd (that Peter's faith may not fail)
John 10:16 - One shepherd to shepherd Christ's sheep
John 15:16 - Jesus chose special men to be his Apostles
John 21:17-19 - Peter appointed to be the chief shepherd
John 20:21 - Jesus gave the Apostles his own mission
Ephesians 4:11 - Church leaders are hierarchical
1 Timothy 3:1,8; 1 Timothy 5:17 - identifies roles of bishops, priests and deacons
Titus 1:5 - Commission for bishops to ordain priests

The Church is Authoritative

Matthew 18:18 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to legislate
Matthew 18:17 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to discipline
Matthew 28:18-20 - Jesus delegates all power to Apostles
Luke 10:16 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to speak with Christ's voice
John 20:23 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to forgive sins
1 Corinthians 11:24 - Jesus gives to the Apostles the power to offer sacrifice (the Eucharist)
St. Irenaeus (200AD) "... the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth." (Against Heresies 1, 10, 2)
Eusibius of Caesarea (4th Century) "But the brightness of the Catholic Church proceeded to increase in greatness, for it ever held to the same points in the same way, and radiated forth to all the race of Greeks and barbarians the reverent, sincere, and free nature and the sobriety and purity of the divine teaching as to conduct and thought." (Ecclesiastical History 4, 7,13)
St. Augustine of Hippo (392AD) "The Catholic Church is the work of Divine Providence, achieved through the prophecies of the prophets, through the Incarnation and the teaching of Christ, through the journeys of the Apostles, through the suffering, the crosses, the blood and death of the martyrs, through the admirable lives of the saints... When, then, we see so much help on God's part, so much progress and so much fruit, shall we hesitate to bury ourselves in the bosom of that Church? For starting from the apostolic chair down through successions of bishops, even unto the open confession of all mankind, it has possessed the crown of teaching authority." (The Advantage of Believing 35)

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#308 May 1, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no doubt that there were many good Christians amongst the catholic system..but Jesus didn't come to set up a religious system..he came to mediate a new covenant between God and men..
His church ..congregation...ecclessia..ar e his bride ...his called out ones , and are not to be part of this world.
The bridegroom is the one that has the bride.
The Church is Infallible

Matthew 28:20 - Jesus tells them: I am with you always
Luke 10:16 - speaks with Christ's own voice
John 14:26 - Holy Spirit is to teach and remind them of everything
John 16:13 - guided by the Holy Spirit into all Truth
Acts 15:28 - Apostles speak with the voice of the Holy Spirit
1 Timothy 3:15 - Church is called the "pillar and foundation of truth"
1 John 2:27 - anointing of the Holy Spirit remains in you
St. Irenaeus (200AD) "For where the Church is, there is the Spirit of God; and where the Spirit of God is, there the Church and every grace is. The Spirit, however, is Truth." (Against Heresies 3, 24, 1)

The Church is Perpetual; Eternal/Un-ending

Isaiah 9:6-7 - of Christ's government there will be no end
Daniel 2:44 - God's kingdom shall not be destroyed
Daniel 7:14 - his kingdom shall not be destroyed
Luke 1:32, 33 - no end to Christ kingdom
Matthew 7:24 - Jesus is like a wise man who built his house on a rock
Matthew 13:24-30 - let wheat and weeds grow together until harvest
Matthew 16:18 - the gates of Hell will never prevail against Christ's Church
John 14:16 - Holy Spirit will be with you always
Matthew 28:19-20 - I am with you all days
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#309 May 1, 2013
He is Coming Soon wrote:
<quoted text>I have been a member of 3 different independent Baptist churches over the past 33 years, in different states. They had the same beliefs and practices, with no central authority governing them. The pastor was only responsible for answering primarily to the Lord and secondarily to the members.

If at any time, the members detect the pastor is not obedient to God either in his personal life or in carrying out the Great Commission, he is fired and sent on his merry little way.
How can you be so blind to reality?

So that pastor the Baptist group fires goes his "merry little way", AND starts his new church group.
Like the way the pentecostal group was started by a baptist preacher fired for being a heretic.
Check Azusa Street revival in Los Angeles 1910.

Or maybe like The second baptist church.....or the southern baptist church....or the corner store baptist church.....or the 'everybody-that-can-fit-into-m y-Yugo' baptist church, etc;etc; etc.
He is Coming Soon wrote:
It is a very efficient system that prevents the corruption seen over the years within Catholicism.
You gotta be kidding!
"Prevent corruption"? "Efficient system"? From whose viewpoint?
Not Gods!
Your protestant aberrations have spawned over 33,000 different religious groups all defying The Church Jesus built.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#310 May 1, 2013
He is Coming Soon wrote:
<quoted text>You have confused Catholicism with Christianity.
There is no difference, The Catholic Church is who brought you Christianity.

BUT YOU have confused protestantism as an acceptable alternative to protest following The Way in The Church That Jesus Built.
Chad

Tempe, AZ

#311 May 1, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Bullsh-t, what an ignorant remark! Even FOX News wouldn't make that claim.
"Moderate Muslims Speak Out"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131580,00...
And there are many, many more examples. Happy reading, bigot.
"Moderate Muslims show courage speaking out against extremists"
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/25/moderate...
"Thomas L. Friedman / Moderate Muslims speak up"
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/p...
"Moderate Muslims Speak Out on Capitol Hill"
http://www.investigativeproject.org/2217/mode...
"Moderate Muslim Speaks Out Against Extremists: Reply To NPR Guests"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Boe4UDFX1uwXX
----------
Hey idiot!!! Yeah you.

It only takes one 'Awe-Sh$t to ruin ten Adda-boys'

http://www.glennbeck.com/2013/04/26/shocker-b...

Extremist Muslim Mom...We wish they had not come here to our country either! All Muslims! Go the Frick home... and take Alla with you!
little lamb

Saint Albans, Australia

#312 May 1, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>The Church
Matthew 16:13-20 - Upon this rock I will build my Church
Matthew 18:17-18 - if he refuses to listen even to the Church ...(shows the importance of obeying and consequences of disobeying the Church)
Matthew 28:18-20 - Go Baptize and teach all nations ...(the Church's mission)
Mark 16:16 - Go to the whole world and proclaim the gospel.
Luke 10:16 - Whoever hears you, hears me, he who rejects you, rejects me.
John 14:16,16, 26 - Holy Spirit will be with you always to teach and reminder you of everything.
John 16:12 - the Spirit of Truth with guide you to all truth.
1 Timothy 3:15 - Church is the pillar and foundation of truth
The Church is the Body of Christ
Romans 12:4-5 - though many, we are one body in Christ
1 Corinthians 6:15 - don't you know that your bodies are members of Christ
1 Corinthians 12:20-27 - you are Christ's body, individually parts of it
Ephesians 5:30 - we are members of his body
Colossians 1:18 - He is the head of the Body, the Church
The Church must be one.
John 10:16 - there shall be one fold and one shepherd
John 17:17-23 - I pray that they may be one, as we are one
John 17:23 - that they may be brought to perfection as one
Romans 12:5 - we, though many, are one body in Christ
Romans 15:5 - God grant you to think in harmony with one another
Romans 16:17 - avoid those who create dissensions
1 Corinthians 1:10 - I urge you that there be no divisions among you
1 Corinthians 12:13 - in one spirit we were baptized into one body
Ephesians 4:4-6 -There is one Body, one Spirit, just as one hope is the goal of your calling by God. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all, over all, through all and within all.
Philippians 2:2 - be of same mind, united in heart, thinking one thing
Colossians 3:15 - the peace into which you were called in one body
Yes the scriptures you use are referring to the BODY of Christ...which we are told is founded on Christ and the Apostles...

So where does it say in scripture its founded on Roman succession???

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#313 May 1, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes the scriptures you use are referring to the BODY of Christ...which we are told is founded on Christ and the Apostles...
So where does it say in scripture its founded on Roman succession???
Apostolic Succession

2 Chronicles 19:11 - high priest is over you in everything of the Lord's
Malachi 2:7 - seek instruction from a priest, he is God's messenger
Acts 1:25-26 - Matthias takes Judas' apostolic ministry
Acts 1:20-22 - Let someone else take over his office. Out of the men who have been with us the whole time that the Lord Jesus was living with us, from the time when John was baptizing until the day when he was taken up from us, one must be appointed to serve with us as a witness to his resurrection.
Acts 14:23 - they appointed presbyters in each church
1 Corinthians 12:28-29 - God designated in the Church, apostles, prophets, teachers
Ephesians 2:20 - Church is built on the foundation of apostles and prophets
Ephesians 4:11 - God gave some as apostles, some as prophets ...
1 Timothy 3:1, 8; 1 Timothy 5:17 - qualifications for bishops, priests and deacons
1 Timothy 4:14 - gift conferred with the laying on of hands
1 Timothy 5:22 - do not lay hands too readily on anyone
2 Timothy 2:2 - what you heard from me, entrust to faithful teachers
Titus 1:5 - appoint presbyters in each town, as I directed

spacer_graphic

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#314 May 1, 2013
The Primacy of Peter
Isaiah 22:15-25 - Prophecy of the Catholic Papacy foretold in the Old Testament
Matthew 16:18 - Upon this rock (Peter) I will build my Church. And the gates of Hell can never overpower it
Note: Our Protestant brethren will say to understand Matthew 16:18, we have to get behind the English to the Greek. They will go on to say in Greek, the word for rock is petra, which means a large, massive stone. The word used for Simon’s new name is different; it’s Petros, which means a little stone, a pebble.
The Catholic reply is to understand Matthew 16:18, we have to get behind the Greek to the Aramaic.
Although we don't know if the original Biblical manuscripts were in Aramaic or not, many scholars believe Our Lord probably spoke Aramaic because it was the native tongue for Jesus' immediate disciples.
In Aramaic there is only one word for "rock": Kepha. So he would have said:
"Blessed are you Simon bar Jonah, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you but my Heavenly Father. So I say to you thou are "Kepha" and upon this "Kepha" I will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it."
The only manuscripts we have of Matthew are written in Greek but Greek scholars—even non-Catholic ones—admit, the words petros and petra were synonyms in first century Greek. They meant "small stone" and "large rock" in some ancient Greek poetry, centuries before the time of Christ, but that distinction had disappeared from the language by the time Matthew’s Gospel was rendered in Greek. The difference in meaning can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New Testament was written in Koine Greek—an entirely different dialect. In Koine Greek, both petros and petra simply meant "rock." If Jesus had wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek lithos would have been used.
Matthew 16:19 - I will give you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven: whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven
Luke 22:32 - Peter's faith will strengthen his brethren.(Note: The word "you" {I have prayed for "you"} in Greek is in the personal tense, not the plural "you" like 'all you apostles' tense.)
John 21:17 - Given Christ's flock as chief shepherd
Mark 6:7 - angel sent to announce the Resurrection to Peter
Luke 24:34 - Risen Jesus first appeared to Peter
Acts 1:13-26 - Peter headed meeting which elected Matthias to replace Judas
Acts 2:14 - Peter lead Apostles in preaching on Pentecost
Acts 2:41 - Peter received the first converts
Acts 3:6-7 - Peter performed the first miracle after Pentecost
Acts 5:1-11 - Peter inflicted the first punishment: Ananias and Saphira
Acts 8:21 - Peter excommunicated the first heretic, Simon Magnus
Acts 10:44-46 - Peter received a revelation to admit the Gentles into the Church
Acts 15 - Peter lead the first Catholic council in Jerusalem
Acts 15:7-12 - Peter spoke saying: "My brothers, he said,.... But we believe that we are saved in the same way as they are: through the grace of the Lord Jesus." The entire assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul describing all the signs and wonders God had worked through them among the gentiles." (pronounces the first dogmatic decision)
Galatians 1:18 - after his conversion, Paul visits the chief Apostle
Matthew 10:1-4, Mark 3:16-19, Luke 6:14-16, Acts 1:13 - Peter's name always heads the list of Apostles
Luke 9:32, Luke 8:46, Mark 16:7 - Peter and his companions
Matthew 18:21, Mark 8:29, Luke 12:41, John 6:69 - Peter spoke for the Apostles
Peter is mentioned 191 times in the New Testament. All the other apostles names combined are mentioned only 130 times. And the most commonly referenced apostle apart from Peter is John, whose name appears 48 times.
little lamb

Saint Albans, Australia

#315 May 1, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>The Church is Infallible
Matthew 28:20 - Jesus tells them: I am with you always
Luke 10:16 - speaks with Christ's own voice
John 14:26 - Holy Spirit is to teach and remind them of everything
John 16:13 - guided by the Holy Spirit into all Truth
Acts 15:28 - Apostles speak with the voice of the Holy Spirit
1 Timothy 3:15 - Church is called the "pillar and foundation of truth"
1 John 2:27 - anointing of the Holy Spirit remains in you
St. Irenaeus (200AD) "For where the Church is, there is the Spirit of God; and where the Spirit of God is, there the Church and every grace is. The Spirit, however, is Truth." (Against Heresies 3, 24, 1)
The Church is Perpetual; Eternal/Un-ending
Isaiah 9:6-7 - of Christ's government there will be no end
Daniel 2:44 - God's kingdom shall not be destroyed
Daniel 7:14 - his kingdom shall not be destroyed
Luke 1:32, 33 - no end to Christ kingdom
Matthew 7:24 - Jesus is like a wise man who built his house on a rock
Matthew 13:24-30 - let wheat and weeds grow together until harvest
Matthew 16:18 - the gates of Hell will never prevail against Christ's Church
John 14:16 - Holy Spirit will be with you always
Matthew 28:19-20 - I am with you all days
Again its talking about the Body of Christ ..

Ephesians 2:20 ...built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

The roman church is not the foundation...
little lamb

Saint Albans, Australia

#316 May 1, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>Apostolic Succession

Acts 1:20-22 - Let someone else take over his office. Out of the men who have been with us the whole time that the Lord Jesus was living with us, from the time when John was baptizing until the day when he was taken up from us, one must be appointed to serve with us as a witness to his resurrection.
Again they appointed someone to take Judas place because his defection cost him his office..

but the rest of the Apostles still retain their office...no one is equal in office to them

God has set the members in the body ..first Apostles..
1 Corinthians 12 [28]

Nobody takes or succeeds the Apostles..because Jesus told them ' the gates of hell shall not prevail over his body.'

'For I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.'

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#317 May 1, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Again they appointed someone to take Judas place because his defection cost him his office..
but the rest of the Apostles still retain their office...no one is equal in office to them
God has set the members in the body ..first Apostles..
1 Corinthians 12 [28]
Nobody takes or succeeds the Apostles..because Jesus told them ' the gates of hell shall not prevail over his body.'
'For I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.'
Full Question
Why do Catholics cling so tightly to the tradition of apostolic succession when there's no biblical support for it? All you can point to are dubious opinions of a few early Christian writers.
Answer

We cling tightly to this tradition because it's true, for starters, and because all Christians are commanded to do so by Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15. For biblical corroboration look at Acts 1:21-26, where you'll see the apostles, immediately after Jesus' Ascension, acting swiftly to replace the position left vacant by Judas's suicide.

They prayed for guidance, asking God to show them which candidate was "chosen to take the place in this apostolic ministry from which Judas turned away." After choosing Matthias they laid hands on him to confer apostolic authority.

Look at 1 Timothy 1:6 and 4:14, where Paul reminds Timothy that the office of bishop had been conferred on him through the laying on of hands. Notice in 1 Timothy 5:22 that Paul advises Timothy not to be hasty in handing on this authority to others. In Titus Paul describes the apostolic authority Titus had received and urges him to act decisively in this leadership role.

Lastly, please do better homework on early Christian writings. The testimony of the early Church is deafening in its unanimous (yes, unanimous) assertion of apostolic succession. Far from being discussed by only a few, scattered writers, the belief that the apostles handed on their authority to others was one of the most frequently and vociferously defended doctrines in the first centuries of Christianity.
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-i...

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#318 May 1, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Again they appointed someone to take Judas place because his defection cost him his office..
but the rest of the Apostles still retain their office...no one is equal in office to them
God has set the members in the body ..first Apostles..
1 Corinthians 12 [28]
Nobody takes or succeeds the Apostles..because Jesus told them ' the gates of hell shall not prevail over his body.'
'For I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.'
While it is true that the original Twelve Apostles were unique in that they had been personally chosen by Jesus and had witnessed to the Resurrection, the Catholic Church believes that the ministry of Peter and the apostles continues in the Church, and that therefore the apostolic and Petrine ministries have been transmitted through the ages.

The Second Vatican Council’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium) states:“In order that the mission entrusted to [the apostles] might be continued after their death,[the apostles] consigned, by will and testament, as it were, to their immediate collaborators the duty of completing and consolidating the work they had begun, urging them to tend to the whole flock, in which the Holy Spirit had appointed them to shepherd the whole Church of God. They accordingly designated such men and then made the ruling that likewise on their death other proven men should take over their ministry”(No. 20).

The document continues:“Just as the office which the Lord confided to Peter alone, as first of the apostles, destined to be transmitted to his successors, is a permanent one, so also endures the office, which the apostles received, of shepherding the Church, a charge destined to be exercised without interruption by the sacred order of bishops”(Ibid.) Therefore the Church holds that “the bishops have by divine institution taken the place of the apostles as pastors of the Church”(Ibid). It reiterates this point by saying that when Christ called the Twelve,“he constituted [them] in the form of a college or permanent assembly, at the head of which he placed Peter, chosen from among them”(No. 22). Thus,“By the Lord’s institution, St. Peter and the rest of the apostles constituted a single apostolic college, so in like fashion the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, and the bishops, the successors of the apostles, are related with and united to one another”(No. 22).

It is certainly the case that the relationships between the Twelve Apostles and their successors, and the relationship between Peter and subsequent popes, was in the beginning quite complicated; nevertheless the fundamental lines of Catholic doctrine on this matter are clear: The apostolic ministry continues in the Church through a succession of bishops up to the present time, and the ministry of Peter continues in the papacy down to today.
http://www.osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/8543/Pas...

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#319 May 1, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Again its talking about the Body of Christ ..
Ephesians 2:20 ...built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
The roman church is not the foundation...
it is clear that the New Testament Church was an apostolic church. Its leadership consisted of the apostles, who were given this authority by Our Lord that included the powers to bind and loose (Mt 16:9; Mt. 18:8), forgive sins (Jn 20:21-23), baptize (Mt 28:18-20), and make disciples (Mt 28:18-20). We see it exhibited in numerous ways throughout the New Testament, including teaching that the Church is built on Christ and his apostles (Eph 2:19-22), deliberating and pronouncing within an episcopal structure about a theological controversy (Acts 15:1-30), proclaiming what constitutes an appropriate reception of true doctrine (1 Cor 15:3-11), rebuking and excommunicating (Acts 5:1-11;Acts 8:14-24; 1 Cor 5; 1 Tim 5:20; 2 Tim 4:2; Titus 1:10-11), judging the adequacy of a believer’s penance or penitent state (2 Cor 2:5-11; 1 Cor 11:27), the ordaining and appointing of ministers (Acts 14:23; I Tim 4:14), choosing successors (Acts 1:20-26), and entrusting the apostolic tradition to the next generation (2 Thess 2:15; I Tim 2:2). The Catholic properties were all in place, albeit in embryonic form.
Second, the full meaning of these “clues” found in the practices of the nascent church are unambiguously answered by the second generation of Christians and their successors. In addition to the testimonies of St. Irenaeus and Tertullian, as noted above, there are others, including St. Clement of Rome, St. Cyprian of Carthage, and St. Augustine of Hippo.
The Catholic Church also embraces the primacy of the Bishop of Rome and the doctrine of papal infallibility. I do not have room to address that aspect of apostolic succession. Suffice it to say, once I had found apostolic succession to be a legitimate Christian doctrine both historically and biblically, Petrine primacy seemed to fall into place. I discovered that the case for Petrine primacy was pretty strong (as Adrian Fortescue persuasively argues), and so much so that even the Orthodox who reject the modern papacy nevertheless maintain that Rome has some sort of ecclesial primacy (as Olivier Clément documents. Some say more modestly,“a primacy of honor.”) And because, as an ex-Catholic, I was in schism with Rome and not Constantinople, Orthodoxy was not a real option for me.
It became clear to me that apostolic succession was for the entirety of Christian history uncontroversially embraced by the Churches of the East and the West until the sixteenth century Reformation. Thus, I concluded that it was at least a legitimate position within the confines of acceptable Christian belief. In that case, I could no longer legitimately remain in schism from the Church of my Baptism unless I had a good reason to do so. And I had no good reason.
Francis J. Beckwith is Professor of Philosophy and Church-State Studies at Baylor University. He tells the story of his journey from Catholicism to Protestantism and back again in his book, Return to Rome: Confessions of An Evangelical Catholic. He blogs at Return to Rome.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#320 May 1, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Again they appointed someone to take Judas place because his defection cost him his office..
but the rest of the Apostles still retain their office...no one is equal in office to them
God has set the members in the body ..first Apostles..
1 Corinthians 12 [28]
Nobody takes or succeeds the Apostles..because Jesus told them ' the gates of hell shall not prevail over his body.'
'For I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.'
Hon, it is simply amazing how folks like you who, in their anti-Catholic haste, IGNORE so much Bible scripture!
little lamb

Saint Albans, Australia

#321 May 1, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Full Question
Why do Catholics cling so tightly to the tradition of apostolic succession when there's no biblical support for it? All you can point to are dubious opinions of a few early Christian writers.
Answer
We cling tightly to this tradition because it's true, for starters, and because all Christians are commanded to do so by Paul in 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15. For biblical corroboration look at Acts 1:21-26, where you'll see the apostles, immediately after Jesus' Ascension, acting swiftly to replace the position left vacant by Judas's suicide.
They prayed for guidance, asking God to show them which candidate was "chosen to take the place in this apostolic ministry from which Judas turned away." After choosing Matthias they laid hands on him to confer apostolic authority.
Look at 1 Timothy 1:6 and 4:14, where Paul reminds Timothy that the office of bishop had been conferred on him through the laying on of hands. Notice in 1 Timothy 5:22 that Paul advises Timothy not to be hasty in handing on this authority to others. In Titus Paul describes the apostolic authority Titus had received and urges him to act decisively in this leadership role.
Lastly, please do better homework on early Christian writings. The testimony of the early Church is deafening in its unanimous (yes, unanimous) assertion of apostolic succession. Far from being discussed by only a few, scattered writers, the belief that the apostles handed on their authority to others was one of the most frequently and vociferously defended doctrines in the first centuries of Christianity.
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Again..you appear not to be listening

Scripture states " THERE IS NO OTHER FOUNDATION, then what is laid'

1 Corinthians 3:11
"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ."

You can only build upon it..you can not succeed it..

1 Corinthians 3:10

By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care.

There is no such thing as Apostolic succession..its a LIE.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#322 May 1, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Again..you appear not to be listening
Scripture states " THERE IS NO OTHER FOUNDATION, then what is laid'
1 Corinthians 3:11
"For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ."
You can only build upon it..you can not succeed it..
1 Corinthians 3:10
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care.
There is no such thing as Apostolic succession..its a LIE.
You are very, very young or just dumb.
Which is it?

You have much to learn about the Bible, its history, Christianity, etc.

Instead of arguing, why don't you use some of your time trying to do a little bit of research BEFORE you attempt to argue about something you are ill equipped to do?
little lamb

Saint Albans, Australia

#323 May 1, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
<quoted text>You are very, very young or just dumb.
Which is it?
You have much to learn about the Bible, its history, Christianity, etc.
Instead of arguing, why don't you use some of your time trying to do a little bit of research BEFORE you attempt to argue about something you are ill equipped to do?
Its no use trying to use ad hominem attacks because they don't distract from the fact ..that you are trying to pass the pope of , as some successor to Peter..

but Peter is established on the foundation that has been laid with Christ and his Apostles..and you can't set up another church ..congregation..body ..in opposition to the one Christ laid.

He handpicked his twelve Apostles..they are the foundation stones..

We are built upon them..not INSTEAD of them...

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