Why did Jesus fail?
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Curious

Matthews, NC

#2 Mar 26, 2013
Mr Mxyzptlk wrote:
The question of why Jesus proved to be such an abject failure in his self-proclaimed try at fulfilling the mysticism of Zionism's Jewish Messiah role should be explored.... Why so?
Well, for one reason, to help the religiously-gullible identify and segregate the next batch of would-be messiahs that are now coming down the pike; ..(yep, even here in this forum) and are certain to pass from the scene as Jesus etal did, and the many still waiting in the wings!
Here's a thumbnail of the way the Bible tells it:
SUPPOSEDLY, Jesus submitted to the baptism ritual developed by a dust-wretch named John. Then his spirit moved him to go immediately to be tested (tested? I thought that god approved him at the baptismal???) by none other than his angelic brother, Satan, in the desolate desert.
He doesn't eat or drink (nor defecate, I'd guess) for 40-days (not 39, but 40!) and instead of being treated to a nice banquet for scoring "A+" on that test, God orders Jesus to drag his butt back to Galilee and begin his preaching campaign in his hometown, Nazareth,...
where he is unable to do many miracles because of their lack of faith (says Matt 13:58).
But it gets worse. He then went to mouthing-off in the synagogue and deeply offended the people attending (Mark 6:3).... Sh1t, they were so incensed by His sermon they tried to push him off a cliff (Luke 4:14-30). Jesus had to apply his Superman powers to escape.
So, Jesus was unable to do many miracles, offended the congregation, and angered the people and turned them into a murderous mob.... If that is not abject failure, what is??
Now, dear fundie lambie-pies,... You could try to twist this passage to manufacture some sort of divine victory, by claiming that Jesus supposedly suffered glorious indignation in god's service,... BUT ... to do so you would strip the word "FAILURE" of its meaning.
If any of those things happened to you I doubt that you would consider it a success. To everyone else in the world, Jesus was simply a typical failure who ended up committing some violent criminal acts in Jerusalem, was justly tried and sent to his death, rightly so.
His career as a false jewish messiah lasted just about 3 years.(THAT'S A BIG FAIL!)
The number of people he duped into following him devotedly was ONLY about 120.- Acts 1:15 KJV
He preached to a million and convinced only 120? That is BIG-TIME FAIL!
http://www.popmartian.com/mcelwaine/7th-comin...
Your Thoughts?
Mxy
I didnt know Jesus was a Vairagi Master? I have heard the term but dont know for sure what it means. Who would be other examples of a Vairagi Master?
Curious

Concord, NC

#5 Mar 27, 2013
Yes, that was interesting and I see why you "don't recommend this stuff". I guess that strayed a little from your thread topic but I'm just amazed at how helplessly tangled religion is and I learn something new everyday. Well, back to the thread topic, I think it's sad that Christians look past problems on every page of the bible that when taken together, reveal the truth.

According to the Bible, Jesus primary mission on earth was to modify Judaism for the Jews, as their Messiah. Jesus is quoted as saying:“I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” And Jesus charge to the disciples is:“Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Now, given that very few Jews converted to Christianity, so few that Paul later put the focus almost entirely on Gentiles (non-Jews), it becomes apparent that Jesus failed in his primary mission. That of course caused Christianity to adapt and evolve in search of more gullible followers. But, not only did he fail to convert many Jews, he also failed to foresee that failure. In Christian dogma, Jesus is a god and can foresee the future:“Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he (John 13:19).”

Now, recall that the Jews were fully primed to expect a Messiah; they were told in the Old Testament that the Messiah would be one of them, a Jew, and would lead them to renewed greatness in the world. They should have been eager to accept a reasonably convincing candidate. I guess it was hard to convince the Jews who created the religion from scratch that the Messiah they created was real. I guess it was a compromise between creating a Messiah that fulfilled some of the prophecy while trying to compete with all the saviours that came after the old testament was written and before Jesus.

If they would have stuck to the Royal blood line, non-virgin born Messiah they might of had a chance but that wasn't miraculous enough even though it was the official prophecy. The miracles would have converted Jews except nobody seen them because they were just stories written decades after the time he supposedly lived. So yes Jesus failed his main reason for coming to earth to save his special chosen race but the most ridiculous part is he didn't know he was going to fail with his special god powers. The more gullible gentiles didn't let the myth go to waste and it had a good run even though it's coming to an end.
Curious

Concord, NC

#7 Mar 28, 2013
Mr Mxyzptlk wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Curious,...
I must say, you composed a brilliant synopsis on why Jesus failed, adding much insight to this thread's subject.... outdoing me, sir!
I do have a few ideas to add to a better understanding of why Jesus blew it big time,... but It'll need some R&D for proper presentation. I'll do that shortly, as time permits.
It centers around a notion that the mainstream Jewdom during Jesus' time (Hasmonean/Herodian/Pharisaic/ Sadducean/Hillelian) was mediocratically comfortable with their politico/religio arrangement under Rome and Roman protection. The anti-Davidic/Zionist Herod Dynasty would have fought against any messianic movements, even if a REAL Messiah showed up! Their hostility for the Essenic/John Baptist movement is evidence of that. So Jesus and his tiny band of Ghandi-like, poor desert-scummy peace-niks got caught in the Jewish aristotic buzzsaw, when they tried to open up shop for their "Let's Restore David's Kingdom" hype in bigtown Jerusalem!
Meanwhile, any continued thoughts that you or any other furumers (pro or con) may wish to add to this discussion is most welcome, esp. on the idea that I noted above.
Thanx!
Mxy
Me outdoing you, not going to happen! I don't even know what Hasmonean means but look forward to reading it. I don't think Christians really put much thought into the reasons Jews rejected the Jesus Messiah story. I mean forget about the fake virgin birth and the trinity garbage and look at some of the most important requirements of the much needed Messiah. I would think that one of the most important prophecies to the Jews (they should know because they made it up) was he had to bring world Peace!

Jesus did not fulfill that messianic prophecy and many more, therefore is not regarded as the Messiah to the Jews.“Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, nor shall they learn war anymore”(Isaiah 2:4). Since world peace must accompany the Messiah, and world peace (for the past 2,000 years or anything remotely approaching it) has not come, clearly the Messiah has not come either. The apologetic spin doctors will likely say it will be fulfilled in the second coming. For the Jews there is no second coming and there is no second coming in the the old testament which they created!

In my opinion Christianity was never suppose to become a lasting religion. I think it was only designed to be of benefit to the men who created it in their generation, which is why nothing was written down. They didn't need to write anything down because the oral myth was that Jesus would fulfill all prophecy before they died.

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

"But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." (Matthew 10:22-23)

I would guess that the idea of a second coming was formulated by later Christians to explain Jesus failure to fulfill the messianic prophecies and get a few more years out of the myth. They would no doubt be shocked to find that humans are so afraid of death and want to believe so badly that we are still waiting for Jesus 2000 years later when his own words prove it was a lie. So in closing, from Judaism's perspective, to call someone who does not bring about the messianic era the Messiah does not make sense.

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#8 Mar 29, 2013
To: Mr.Mxyzptik: I wonder if you speak of Mohammed, Buddha, Harry Krishna, John Smith, and the others the way you speak of Christ. When the heathen howl, it's interesting to note that it's seldom against one of their own when it comes to religion.

I wonder how much of the Koran you know, but you seem so well versed on the Bible. It would seem fruitless to fight against these others that I've mentioned because why fight against something that's already dead? Think about it!

Voltaire, the French atheist use to draw great crowds as he would stand in fields and shake his fist at God using every fowl word imaginable and daring God to strike Him dead if He really existed! He was much like you. He spent his last days in an insane asylum. The nurse who was assigned to his care at his end would often find him huddled in a corner on the floor when she entered his room. He would be swinging his arms wildly trying to bat away the demons that he said were closing in on him. The frightful horror that was on this man's face while she worked with him caused his nurse to say “I wouldn't watch another infidel die for all the riches in Europe!” What kind of shape do you think he's been in all this time ???

Yes, there are those who speak against God on this Forum, and some even blaspheme, but I must say that after glossing over your above posts (and glossing was all I could handle) your hardness to the Gospel and toward God Himself could very well be unparallelled on this site! It is frightening.

God would not strike Voltaire down because salvation was for him as much as everyone else, regardless of crimes or sins committed. But Voltaire had hardened his heart against God by his continual blaspheming to the point that it was no longer possible for him to put his faith in Christ. You push away from you what you speak against!

There are a lot of people on here that have fallen from their first estate (in Christ) because of wrong teachings etc, and who now fight hard against what they once loved. But that doesn't mean that God is fighting against THEM.

God is married to the backslider and works to regain their confidence, but it is harder the second time round because that still small voice they once trusted has been put off to the side because they tried to KEEP their salvation thru works, after ATTAINING IT by faith. But it is kept, the same way it is received, by faith in Christ and the work that He did FOR us on the cross, not in our own works! You must keep the faith in your heart separated from the good works that you do. The one brings salvation, the other blessings!

The door is still open .....

“Jesus is Lord”

Since: Aug 11

Greenwood, Indiana

#11 Mar 29, 2013
Jesus never fail at anything FACT, this thread comes from the pit of hell with nothing but lies. End of story!!
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#12 Mar 29, 2013
Maybe the "Jews" (and I use this word loosely) didnt accept Jesus because of what their God said to them?
Little Joe

Indianapolis, IN

#13 Mar 29, 2013
ThePreacherman01 wrote:
Jesus never fail at anything FACT, this thread comes from the pit of hell with nothing but lies. End of story!!
Amen Pastor!
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#15 Mar 29, 2013
Mr Mxyzptlk wrote:
<quoted text>
Please elaborate, Mr. Flygerian!
Mr. Mxy
Well, Israel was told what the messiah was to be like and what he would do. If Jesus came and did not do these things then what else was Israel supposed to do? Especially when Jesus comes and "edits" their law as given by their God which was (allegedly) eternal, again what else were they supposed to do? If I add in the characteristics that christians do( Jesus being the God of Israel, dying for sins etc...) that even furthers my point since what the God of Israel said to Israel contradicts these things. Hopefully you understand my point
Curious

Travelers Rest, SC

#19 Mar 29, 2013
Mr Mxy, that was very informative and far outside what a person will normally find in their search for religious information. I don't have time to comment on all the topics you covered now but what about Maccabees in your post, is this related to the books in the Catholic bible? I know that is one of several books the protestants edited out of their bible because they said "were not inspired". The bible seems like self contradictory nonsense so I don't know how you can call any of it inspired or by what?

“Shoot for the stars”

Since: Dec 10

Planet Earth

#20 Mar 29, 2013
Mr Mxyzptlk wrote:
<quoted text>
I do NOT recommend this stuff, but you are Curious; here's what I've dug up about "Vairagi Masters". It began in 1499 in Punjab, India as Sikhism:
Sikhism is a monotheistic religion founded during the 15th century in the Punjab region, by Guru Nanak. His religion continued to progress with ten successive Sikh gurus,... the last teaching being the holy scripture Guru Granth Sahib. It is the fifth-largest organized religion in the world, with approximately 30 million Sikhs.
This system of religious philosophy and expression has been traditionally known as the Gurmat ('wisdom of the Guru'). Punjab, India is the only region in the world with a majority Sikh population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Nanak_Dev
"Eckankar" is a mod-offshoot from Sikhism founded in the USA by Paul Twitchell in 1965, who led the group from 1965-1971. He was followed by Darwin Gross (1971-1981), and Harold Klemp (1981-present). Leaders of Eckankar are called 'ECK Masters'(aka, Vairagi Masters).
"Eckists" (as they call themselves)seek to experience a personal revelation of the "Light and Sound of God", as one of the spiritual aims. Eckankar claims to provide an individual spiritual path to an understanding of one's eternal soul and a development of higher states of consciousness.
Eckankar has been described as "The Ancient Science of Soul Travel," "The Religion of New Age", "The Science of Total Awareness," and "A Way of Life".(perhaps "Seen the Other Side", the Topix poster of CF fame, would fit in with the "Eckists", if he hasn't yet). "ECK" is another word for the Holy Spirit, also known as the Audible Life Current, Life Force, or Light and Sound of God.
Twitchell claimed that he did not borrow ideas from any human source, but experienced his own "God realization" in 1956 and was initiated by a group of spiritual masters called the "Order of Vairagi Masters" (he claims some 961 VMs are a line that traces back to Jesus Christ) as the Living Eck Master in 1965.
Twitchell claimed that ECKANKAR is the oldest and most original religion in the world. All other religions are derivative from it and in some sense inferior to it. Whatever truth is in them belongs to ECKANKAR.
Being a "New Age Cult", Eckankar teaches a process which, after multiple reincarnations, culminates in a god existence, or Christ Consciousness. The process itself involves the adherent progressing upward through twelve astral planes through the attainment of classified levels of knowledge (gnosticism).
Eckankar believes that God exists in two parts, "The Light and The Sound", known as ECK. This is touted to be the sustaining force of all life and the equivalent of the Holy Spirit. Eckankar teaches that it is possible to experience the Light and Sound through the proper use of spiritual exercises. Spiritual Exercise is important as the initiator of Soul Travel and for achieving spiritual growth and a deeper appreciation for one's past lives. A key spiritual exercise is the singing of the word 'hu', which is supposedly the name of God.
Eckankar adherents believe that humans are a "spark of God" and they were sent to earth to gain spiritual experience and to serve others.
Like ALL religion, I view "Sikhism" as Sickism.
They should change the name!
Did this help, Curious?
Mxy
I've read some articles, that Jesus studied in India during his so called " Lost Years", which does make sense.

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#21 Mar 29, 2013
Mr Mxyzptlk wrote:
The question of why Jesus proved to be such an abject failure in his self-proclaimed try at fulfilling the mysticism of Zionism's Jewish Messiah role should be explored.... Why so?
Well, for one reason, to help the religiously-gullible identify and segregate the next batch of would-be messiahs that are now coming down the pike; ..(yep, even here in this forum) and are certain to pass from the scene as Jesus etal did, and the many still waiting in the wings!
Here's a thumbnail of the way the Bible tells it:
SUPPOSEDLY, Jesus submitted to the baptism ritual developed by a dust-wretch named John. Then his spirit moved him to go immediately to be tested (tested? I thought that god approved him at the baptismal???) by none other than his angelic brother, Satan, in the desolate desert.
He doesn't eat or drink (nor defecate, I'd guess) for 40-days (not 39, but 40!) and instead of being treated to a nice banquet for scoring "A+" on that test, God orders Jesus to drag his butt back to Galilee and begin his preaching campaign in his hometown, Nazareth,...
where he is unable to do many miracles because of their lack of faith (says Matt 13:58).
But it gets worse. He then went to mouthing-off in the synagogue and deeply offended the people attending (Mark 6:3).... Sh1t, they were so incensed by His sermon they tried to push him off a cliff (Luke 4:14-30). Jesus had to apply his Superman powers to escape.
So, Jesus was unable to do many miracles, offended the congregation, and angered the people and turned them into a murderous mob.... If that is not abject failure, what is??
Now, dear fundie lambie-pies,... You could try to twist this passage to manufacture some sort of divine victory, by claiming that Jesus supposedly suffered glorious indignation in god's service,... BUT ... to do so you would strip the word "FAILURE" of its meaning.
If any of those things happened to you I doubt that you would consider it a success. To everyone else in the world, Jesus was simply a typical failure who ended up committing some violent criminal acts in Jerusalem, was justly tried and sent to his death, rightly so.
His career as a false jewish messiah lasted just about 3 years.(THAT'S A BIG FAIL!)
The number of people he duped into following him devotedly was ONLY about 120.- Acts 1:15 KJV
He preached to a million and convinced only 120? That is BIG-TIME FAIL!
http://www.popmartian.com/mcelwaine/7th-comin...
Your Thoughts?
Mxy
Jesus knew exactly what He was doing, exactly how people would respond to what He said and when it all would culminate in his death. This was the fulfillment of His mission: Dying in our place and rising again to conquer the power of death. The beauty of Jesus, who fulfilled His mission perfectly and whose resurrection is being celebrated worldwide this weekend, is imcomparable and I just think you're jealous. Your hatred reveals the nature of what is inside of you. Darkness has veiled your eyes but you can be free of the darkness if you ask for His Light. Amen.

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#24 Mar 29, 2013
Mr Mxyzptlk wrote:
God orders Jesus to drag his butt back to Galilee and begin his preaching campaign in his hometown, Nazareth,...
where he is unable to do many miracles because of their lack of faith (says Matt 13:58).
The fact that Jesus DID perform many miracles in itself proves your claims to be false. If Jesus did not perform a miracle, it's not because he couldn't literally; rather, because he wouldn't since faith is very important to Jesus. DUH! You even eluded to this but then claim Jesus failed. lol!

Next!
REPENT YE EVIL DOERS

Kladno, Czech Republic

#25 Mar 29, 2013
Xcaliber wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that Jesus DID perform many miracles in itself proves your claims to be false. If Jesus did not perform a miracle, it's not because he couldn't literally; rather, because he wouldn't since faith is very important to Jesus. DUH! You even eluded to this but then claim Jesus failed. lol!
Next!
The Lord told me to pray for you. And a Post it. So you would know what's going to happen to you.

Lord God of all the heavens and the heaven and the earth, take all this person's blessings and the blessings of their family that they do not use to bless your beautiful name. And give them all to me. I will use them to bless your beautiful name.

Amen
klink

United States

#26 Mar 30, 2013
Mxy this is an awesome post you've got going here if I do say so my self.
klink

United States

#27 Mar 30, 2013
Rand M Studor you think Islam is dead, are u out of your mind? All religion is in decline because of knowledge but Islam is growing faster than Christianity.
klink

United States

#28 Mar 30, 2013
ThePreacherman01 wrote:
Jesus never fail at anything FACT, this thread comes from the pit of hell with nothing but lies. End of story!!
Jesus failed a lot and hell doesn't exist so this must of came from the pit of logical rational thought.
klink

United States

#29 Mar 30, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Israel was told what the messiah was to be like and what he would do. If Jesus came and did not do these things then what else was Israel supposed to do? Especially when Jesus comes and "edits" their law as given by their God which was (allegedly) eternal, again what else were they supposed to do? If I add in the characteristics that christians do( Jesus being the God of Israel, dying for sins etc...) that even furthers my point since what the God of Israel said to Israel contradicts these things. Hopefully you understand my point
well said!

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

Del Valle, TX

#30 Mar 30, 2013
The FACT that the world is still so screwed up proves that the Christian fundamentalist concept of God just sucks big time. Time to rethink what this God thing really is.

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#31 Mar 30, 2013
John from Texas wrote:
The FACT that the world is still so screwed up proves that the Christian fundamentalist concept of God just sucks big time. Time to rethink what this God thing really is.
This screwed up society you speak of is a product of a godless immoral society. The more places you take God out of, the worse it becomes. For example, God is pretty much removed from schools now.

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

Del Valle, TX

#32 Mar 30, 2013
Huntington Guy wrote:
<quoted text>This screwed up society you speak of is a product of a godless immoral society. The more places you take God out of, the worse it becomes. For example, God is pretty much removed from schools now.
Well I think this screwed up society is a result of some bizarre convoluted concept of God being imposed on everyone with fear as the basis of some weird outdated teachings. I thank God that those BS concepts are out of schools. Now it's OK to teach these belief systems as long as all the other ones are taught also. And a moment of silence should be allowed for anyone to reflect anyway they want. I think that just may be allowed already, but shoving a particular belief down our kid's throat is dangerous stuff.

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