messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1053 Mar 20, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
In relation to Jesus being the messiah can both Messianic 114 and I am Him please comment on the link below?
http://glimpsesofgrace.org/articles/Coniah.ht...
.
I will give you my objections:
1. בה&#15 06;ות& #1493; "If he commits iniquity". I don't see how you can get this translation out of this word. The bet means (for, in, with) not if. The hey means (the) it is the definite article. Ayin, vav, tav is the word for perversity and the vav on the end can mean him or them. We can see this same usage in Gen 2:25 where speaking of Adam and Eve that they were naked. So I would translate this word For the perversity of them. When we take this translation we can see the Messiah who was bruised for our iniquities. He builds a house (family) for G-d and his kingdom is established forever as he is a king that death has no hold on.
2. Royal right is not guaranteed to the firstborn as Solomon was neither firstborn or the eldest at his coronation.
3. Joseph being a sinner is not of importance as Mary was a sinner also. As you can tell I'm not a believer in the doctrine of original sin. We all sin that is true and we are born with a sin nature but we are not born tainted with sin. We don't become sinners until we choose to do wrong. Therefore all aborted babies are free from sin.
4. No child in Coniah’s line could rule upon the throne of David.
I see this as a conditional statement just as G-d proclaimed to Nineveh that is 40 days it would be destroyed. Coniah repented in Babylon and this is evidenced by the names of his children. Assir means prisoner, we see in the scriptures he, his wives and his mother were taken captive, no mention is made of his children. Assir was born when he was a prisoner. Salathiel (I have G-d) is his confession in G-d, Pedaiah (G-d has ransomed) is his faith in deliverance. Hoshama (G-d has heard) his prayer of repentance. Nedabiah (Jah enlarges) is his declaration that the Lord lifts up whom he will and abases whom he will. Eight sons from a man proclaimed childless by G-d. The rabbis understood that he was forgiven and I see the evidence that this is true. Therefore there is no curse.
5. I disagree that the Matthew genealogy is that of Joseph. The word translated husband in the text is "aner" which means man. So if we translate this as father we have the 42 generations Matthew told us. If we translate it as husband we only have 41 generations. Joseph is the father of Mary who marries a man named Joseph. Luke's genealogy starts with the "supposed son" of Joseph.
6. I don't know where the evidence Heli had 3 daughters comes from.
7. It doesn't logically follow that because Yeshua was conceived by the Holy Spirit that he wouldn't have inherited a sin nature from his mother. If he didn't have the potential to sin then he couldn't have been tempted in all ways as we are. If he had no potential to sin then how can there be temptation?
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1054 Mar 20, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you believe that David is the messiah?
.
I believe "David" is a codeword for the Messiah, who is Yeshua the son of David.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1055 Mar 20, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Yes I can partially understand Hebrew. And that verse I posted does not change the meaning of the verse
2. And you would know how much Hebrew I know? And yes YOU can be singular and plural in English. Not to mention Hebrew lol
3.-I already know the land God was talking about
- The Immanuel was a birth signifying God Almighty was with Judah against the rest of Israel and Aram. The context tells you that
4. Can you show where the LANDS were laid to waste? I showed you the two kings that were going against Ahaz (who Isaiah was told to go to) lands were laid to waste. Can you show me where the 2 people you mentioned went thru the same?
5. Well heres what it says
Thus says the LORD:“Write this man down as childless, a man who shall not succeed in his days, for none of his offspring shall succeed in sitting on the throne of David and ruling again in Judah.”
Can you show someone of the son of Jeconiah ruling on the throne of David? If not, then why should I believe you when you say it was "repealed"?
6. Can you explain why anger means "father" and not what it means in other places in the NT? Maybe I missed something.
7. Umm no lol. It clearly says Solomon fulfilled it.
1 Chronicles 28:6
He said to me:'Solomon your son is the one who will build my house and my courts, for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.
2nd Samuel 7
12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands. 15 But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me[b]; your throne will be established forever.’”
Have you read the OT?
.
1. I will start before "the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste" which you posted as the translation in post#1019.
tazab (they(f/p) will relinquish/forsake) hadamah (the land) asher (which) attah (you) koots (abhor) mepani (in/to my face) sheni (both her) melachiah (kings)
3. Which is the land abhored?
4. I don't agree with your translation and you have the opportunity to translate it like I did.
5. The fact that he had 8 sons after this curse implies it was absolved. The alternative is G-d lied. Tell me did G-d lie?
6. You are not taking my word that "aner" means man. You can find this in a greek lexicon. We can see it translated as man in Mt 7:24, we can infer father/husbands in Mt 14:21. When you search for this word the only time it is translated husband is when the context demands it. In this case the context demands "father". Now you are the one saying I should believe how it is translated other places. Show me in either the NT or the LXX where this word as spelled in the Matthew text is EVER translated "husband"
7. No one ever stated Solomon didn't build the temple. What was stated is that Solomon didn't have a everlasting kingdom as stated in 2 Sa 7:14. Therefore Solomon is NOT the son promised in 2 Sa 7:14. Additionally Solomon was never chastened with the rods of men.
.
Reading the OT is not the problem. You have read the OT but choose to ascribe to Solomon the sonship when he has only fulfilled two of the four descriptions.
Solomon Yeshua
a. proceed from David yes yes
b. make sure his kingdon no yes
c. built a house yes yes
d. be punished with stripes and the rod of men no yes

Who best fulfills this passage?
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#1056 Mar 20, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
He bypasses the curse by being the son of God. He had no earthly father and therefore he inherited no curse.He was adopted by Joseph who came from the cursed line, but the curse wasn't passed on to him because Joseph was not his biological father. Joseph, a descendent of Solomon, was Jesus’ legal adoptive father, so Jesus traced His royal rights to the throne through Joseph. Being born of Mary it gave him a legal right to the throne as well. Through Mary he could claim that he was descended from David via Nathan.
God explained what would happen if Solomon did not keep his commands and it was conditional and because of that he was disqualified, when he broke the covenant with God.
So if it is not Jesus, how can another come from the line of Solomon.The line of rulership passed through Jechoniah's sons so if they were disqualified who else was or is able to occupy the throne?
All of what you said is interpretation. I still havent seen ANY reason as to why a birthright (something good) can be passed down but the curse (something bad) cannot be passed down. If the curse could not be passed down because Joseph wasnt Jesus' biological father then the throne could not be passed down for that same reason. You're just picking and choosing which one applies and which one doesnt. Do you see why I dont believe you?

Sorry. Show me where God said to Solomon that if he didnt follow His commands the kingdom would be taken away?
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#1057 Mar 20, 2013
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Yeshua always pointed to the father, but he also said to honour the son as you do the father. He did not point to other gods or to gods unknown to the Hebrews of Moses' generation. The problem we have now is this generation of Jews doesn't worship the G-d of Sinai, they have redefined him.
.
What I was showing with Ezekial is that the Messiah has names in scripture like David, Israel, Immanuel. We need to understand what is meant by those names, not dogmatically assert for instance that David is the Messiah.
Did the Hebrews of Moses time know a god named Jesus or any variation of the name that was EQUAL to the God that revealed Himself to Abraham?

The Jews have redefined Him. But so have christians and people that misinterpret the NT. If they're not misinterpreting it, then its the NT that redefined Him as well. Because NOWHERE in the prophets doesnt it tell us that He has 3 parts. Or that His son is equal to Him. Am I right on this?

Well you need to remove Immanuel from that list. The context doesnt support it being about the messiah. I agree with what you're saying though
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#1058 Mar 20, 2013
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
1. I will start before "the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste" which you posted as the translation in post#1019.
tazab (they(f/p) will relinquish/forsake) hadamah (the land) asher (which) attah (you) koots (abhor) mepani (in/to my face) sheni (both her) melachiah (kings)
1. And what is this saying?
messianic114 wrote:
3. Which is the land abhored?
3. What?
messianic114 wrote:
4. I don't agree with your translation and you have the opportunity to translate it like I did.
4. And what does your translation in say in English?
messianic114 wrote:
5. The fact that he had 8 sons after this curse implies it was absolved. The alternative is G-d lied. Tell me did G-d lie?
Well, neither according to scripture. It says to write Jeconiah as IF childless. And that none of his sons would rule on the throne of David
messianic114 wrote:
6. You are not taking my word that "aner" means man. You can find this in a greek lexicon. We can see it translated as man in Mt 7:24, we can infer father/husbands in Mt 14:21. When you search for this word the only time it is translated husband is when the context demands it. In this case the context demands "father". Now you are the one saying I should believe how it is translated other places. Show me in either the NT or the LXX where this word as spelled in the Matthew text is EVER translated "husband"
6. The context doesnt demand that lol. Thats all you. And I say that because the context of Jesus whole story is that Joseph was his father. Why didnt it ever differentiate between Joseph the father of Mary (though lineage isnt determined by the father) and Joseph the husband?

In short:

-Why wasnt the same word used for father in terms of Jacob the FATHER of Joseph and Joseph the HUSBAND (ANDRA) of Mary?
-Where was ANDRA used to show father?
messianic114 wrote:
7. No one ever stated Solomon didn't build the temple. What was stated is that Solomon didn't have a everlasting kingdom as stated in 2 Sa 7:14. Therefore Solomon is NOT the son promised in 2 Sa 7:14. Additionally Solomon was never chastened with the rods of men.
1 Kings 11:30-34
And the Lord was angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice and had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods. But he did not keep what the Lord commanded. Therefore the Lord said to Solomon, "Since this has been your practice and you have not kept my covenant and my statutes that I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom from you and will give it to your servant. Yet for the sake of David your father I will not do it in your days, but I will tear it out of the hand of your son. However, I will not tear away all the kingdom, but I will give one tribe to YOUR SON, for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem that I have chosen.
messianic114 wrote:
Reading the OT is not the problem. You have read the OT but choose to ascribe to Solomon the sonship when he has only fulfilled two of the four descriptions.
Solomon Yeshua
a. proceed from David yes yes
b. make sure his kingdon no yes
c. built a house yes yes
d. be punished with stripes and the rod of men no yes
Who best fulfills this passage?
Well lets see

a. Solomon- Yes Jesus - Yes if Joseph was his biological father no if not
b. Solomon- Yes Jesus - Unsure
c. Solomon- Yes Jesus- NOPE
d. Solomon- Nope Jesus- Yes

Solomon best fits this passage.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#1059 Mar 20, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
All of what you said is interpretation. I still havent seen ANY reason as to why a birthright (something good) can be passed down but the curse (something bad) cannot be passed down. If the curse could not be passed down because Joseph wasnt Jesus' biological father then the throne could not be passed down for that same reason. You're just picking and choosing which one applies and which one doesnt. Do you see why I dont believe you?
Sorry. Show me where God said to Solomon that if he didnt follow His commands the kingdom would be taken away?
The curse was carried in the blood and the blood of Jesus was not that of Joseph but that of Mary. Joseph legally adopted Jesus and as can be seen elsewhere in the bible people are able to carry on the name of the line and not be genetically related or have the same bloodline.An example being that if Abraham did not have any sons his line would have been carried on by Elizear who was not genetically related

Solomon's throne was only to be established forever if he was faithful and righteous to the God of his father David . It can clearly be seen that he wasn't, so the covenant that God had established was made null and void by the actions of Solomon. God gave David an unconditional guarantee but not Solomon. In one of your posts you stated that it wasn't conditional but as can be seen by the scriptures that I have provided it was. God actually refused Solomon's request in 1 Kings 8:25-26 for an unconditional guarantee. God stated to him that there were conditions, and the breaking of those conditions could actually result in the exile of the people and the destruction of the Temple. This is what actually happened. God was determined to keep his promise to David but it didn't have to be through Solomon once he broke the covenant with God. Where in the bible does it state that it would if Solomon didn't keep God's commands ?

The promise of the Davidic messiah could not be realized through Solomon's line because it was affected by terrible idolatry until finally God pronounced a curse on the royal line.

Do you agree that Solomon broke his commitment to God? If the line of Solomon has been cursed and their is no indication it was only related to one generation which line will the messiah come from?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#1060 Mar 20, 2013
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
I will give you my objections:
1. &#1489;&#1492;&#15 06;&#1493;&#1514;& #1493; "If he commits iniquity". I don't see how you can get this translation out of this word. The bet means (for, in, with) not if. The hey means (the) it is the definite article. Ayin, vav, tav is the word for perversity and the vav on the end can mean him or them. We can see this same usage in Gen 2:25 where speaking of Adam and Eve that they were naked. So I would translate this word For the perversity of them. When we take this translation we can see the Messiah who was bruised for our iniquities. He builds a house (family) for G-d and his kingdom is established forever as he is a king that death has no hold on.
2. Royal right is not guaranteed to the firstborn as Solomon was neither firstborn or the eldest at his coronation.
3. Joseph being a sinner is not of importance as Mary was a sinner also. As you can tell I'm not a believer in the doctrine of original sin. We all sin that is true and we are born with a sin nature but we are not born tainted with sin. We don't become sinners until we choose to do wrong. Therefore all aborted babies are free from sin.
4. No child in Coniah’s line could rule upon the throne of David.
I see this as a conditional statement just as G-d proclaimed to Nineveh that is 40 days it would be destroyed. Coniah repented in Babylon and this is evidenced by the names of his children. Assir means prisoner, we see in the scriptures he, his wives and his mother were taken captive, no mention is made of his children. Assir was born when he was a prisoner. Salathiel (I have G-d) is his confession in G-d, Pedaiah (G-d has ransomed) is his faith in deliverance. Hoshama (G-d has heard) his prayer of repentance. Nedabiah (Jah enlarges) is his declaration that the Lord lifts up whom he will and abases whom he will. Eight sons from a man proclaimed childless by G-d. The rabbis understood that he was forgiven and I see the evidence that this is true. Therefore there is no curse.
5. I disagree that the Matthew genealogy is that of Joseph. The word translated husband in the text is "aner" which means man. So if we translate this as father we have the 42 generations Matthew told us. If we translate it as husband we only have 41 generations. Joseph is the father of Mary who marries a man named Joseph. Luke's genealogy starts with the "supposed son" of Joseph.
6. I don't know where the evidence Heli had 3 daughters comes from.
7. It doesn't logically follow that because Yeshua was conceived by the Holy Spirit that he wouldn't have inherited a sin nature from his mother. If he didn't have the potential to sin then he couldn't have been tempted in all ways as we are. If he had no potential to sin then how can there be temptation?
1. I don't understand what number one of your post is about what is the word you are referring to?
2. I understand that and agree with you
3. I believe that we have a sin nature
4. If you are saying the line was forgiven then were is it documented?
5. I need to look up the word as I don't read or understand Hebrew
6.Need to read further
7.I believe that he inherited a sin nature otherwise how would he be able to be tempted as we are
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#1061 Mar 21, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
The curse was carried in the blood and the blood of Jesus was not that of Joseph but that of Mary. Joseph legally adopted Jesus and as can be seen elsewhere in the bible people are able to carry on the name of the line and not be genetically related or have the same bloodline.An example being that if Abraham did not have any sons his line would have been carried on by Elizear who was not genetically related
Again this is your interpretation. What do you have from scripture that supports this? And you're forgetting that the throne was carried in the blood as well as the curse you are speaking of
Sheilaa wrote:
Solomon's throne was only to be established forever if he was faithful and righteous to the God of his father David . It can clearly be seen that he wasn't, so the covenant that God had established was made null and void by the actions of Solomon. God gave David an unconditional guarantee but not Solomon. In one of your posts you stated that it wasn't conditional but as can be seen by the scriptures that I have provided it was. God actually refused Solomon's request in 1 Kings 8:25-26 for an unconditional guarantee. God stated to him that there were conditions, and the breaking of those conditions could actually result in the exile of the people and the destruction of the Temple. This is what actually happened. God was determined to keep his promise to David but it didn't have to be through Solomon once he broke the covenant with God. Where in the bible does it state that it would if Solomon didn't keep God's commands ?
The promise of the Davidic messiah could not be realized through Solomon's line because it was affected by terrible idolatry until finally God pronounced a curse on the royal line.
Do you agree that Solomon broke his commitment to God? If the line of Solomon has been cursed and their is no indication it was only related to one generation which line will the messiah come from?
Yes Solomon broke his committment with his God. But no it didnt mean that the kingdom was taken away. Read here

1 kings 11
9 The Lord became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. 10 Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the Lord’s command. 11 So the Lord said to Solomon,“Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. 12 Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. 13 Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#1062 Mar 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Again this is your interpretation. What do you have from scripture that supports this? And you're forgetting that the throne was carried in the blood as well as the curse you are speaking of
<quoted text>
Yes Solomon broke his committment with his God. But no it didnt mean that the kingdom was taken away. Read here
1 kings 11
9 The Lord became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. 10 Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the Lord’s command. 11 So the Lord said to Solomon,“Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. 12 Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. 13 Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen.
It is not my interpretation, it is what God said. I have provided the scriptures which support my claim. So it was conditional, which you denied in your first post and he did what he said he would do. To me it is quite clear what he said and you are now justifying and denying it. Whether he did it in his lifetime or not is irrelevant. The line was cursed so I ask you again how can the messiah come from the line of Solomon as opposed to the line of David?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#1063 Mar 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Again this is your interpretation. What do you have from scripture that supports this? And you're forgetting that the throne was carried in the blood as well as the curse you are speaking of
<quoted text>
Yes Solomon broke his committment with his God. But no it didnt mean that the kingdom was taken away. Read here
1 kings 11
9 The Lord became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. 10 Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the Lord’s command. 11 So the Lord said to Solomon,“Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. 12 Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. 13 Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen.
So he was tearing it away from Solomon and giving it away to one of his subordinates. A subordinate is someone who is lower in rank or position. As it couldn't be one of Solomon's offspring who was it given to? Why not Nathan?
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#1064 Mar 21, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not my interpretation, it is what God said. I have provided the scriptures which support my claim. So it was conditional, which you denied in your first post and he did what he said he would do. To me it is quite clear what he said and you are now justifying and denying it. Whether he did it in his lifetime or not is irrelevant. The line was cursed so I ask you again how can the messiah come from the line of Solomon as opposed to the line of David?
You're ignoring what I just posted. So let me try posting it again.

1st Kings 11
10 Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the Lord’s command. 11 So the Lord said to Solomon,“Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. 12 Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. 13 Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen.”

Do you see the last verse. That He would not tear the whole kingdom from Solomon's son?

To answer you last question. Solomon is the son of David. So if it comes from Solomon's line then it is AUTOMATICALLY David's line. Nowhere was Solomon's line cursed though lol. Here is what happened in 1st Kings 11. Can you show me anything different than what is said here?
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#1065 Mar 21, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
So he was tearing it away from Solomon and giving it away to one of his subordinates. A subordinate is someone who is lower in rank or position. As it couldn't be one of Solomon's offspring who was it given to? Why not Nathan?
1. It didnt say subordinates. It said SON.
2. Nathan was the brother of Solomon.

So if Nathan was the brother of Solomon and the kingdom was taken away from Solomon's line, how did Nathan come into the picture?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#1066 Mar 22, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
You're ignoring what I just posted. So let me try posting it again.
1st Kings 11
10 Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the Lord’s command. 11 So the Lord said to Solomon,“Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. 12 Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. 13 Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen.”
Do you see the last verse. That He would not tear the whole kingdom from Solomon's son?
To answer you last question. Solomon is the son of David. So if it comes from Solomon's line then it is AUTOMATICALLY David's line. Nowhere was Solomon's line cursed though lol. Here is what happened in 1st Kings 11. Can you show me anything different than what is said here?
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you. We are traveling full time and sometimes we are in areas were there is no internet access.

I understand what you have said in relation to the line and in reading I have come across an explanation which takes into account your view. The link and the information contained within it explain it better than any way I could try to, so I will post the link and I will wait for your comment.

http://www.bibletruthonline.com/thegeneologyo...
Big Al

Bangkok, Thailand

#1067 Mar 22, 2013
Genesis, Chapter 2
001: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
002: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
003: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
004: These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
005: And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
006: But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
007: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
008: And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
009: And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
010: And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
011: The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
012: And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
013: And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
014: And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
015: And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
016: And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
017: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
018: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
019: And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
020: And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
021: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
022: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
023: And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
024: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
025: And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#1068 Mar 22, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
1. It didnt say subordinates. It said SON.
2. Nathan was the brother of Solomon.
So if Nathan was the brother of Solomon and the kingdom was taken away from Solomon's line, how did Nathan come into the picture?
Nathan was not a descendant of Solomon but his brother.So Nathan's line did not contain the curse. David was the father of both Solomon and David. It was Solomon's line that was cursed through Jehoiachin. The other thing I was thinking is that Jesus is the "only begotten son of God" so he is legally entitled to inherit his father's kingdom. He was the only son that was conceived by
God through a woman. No one else can claim this right.The fact that he was adopted by Joseph he did not inherit the curse
nothing to do

Yakutsk, Russia

#1069 Mar 22, 2013
Genesis, Chapter 10
001: Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
002: The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
003: And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
004: And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
005: By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
006: And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
007: And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtechah: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
008: And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
009: He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
010: And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
011: Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
012: And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.
013: And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim,
014: And Pathrusim, and Casluhim,(out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim.
015: And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth,
016: And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite,
017: And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,
018: And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.
019: And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha.
020: These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations.
021: Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.
022: The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.
023: And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.
024: And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.
025: And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
026: And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah,
027: And Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah,
028: And Obal, and Abimael, and Sheba,
029: And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan.
030: And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar a mount of the east.
031: These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.
032: These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1070 Mar 22, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Did the Hebrews of Moses time know a god named Jesus or any variation of the name that was EQUAL to the God that revealed Himself to Abraham?
The Jews have redefined Him. But so have christians and people that misinterpret the NT. If they're not misinterpreting it, then its the NT that redefined Him as well. Because NOWHERE in the prophets doesnt it tell us that He has 3 parts. Or that His son is equal to Him. Am I right on this?
Well you need to remove Immanuel from that list. The context doesnt support it being about the messiah. I agree with what you're saying though
.
<quoted text> Did the Hebrews of Moses time know a god named Jesus or any variation of the name that was EQUAL to the God that revealed Himself to Abraham?
.
With the exception of the name I can answer yes. Both Abraham and Moses saw a G-d incarnate.
.
<quoted text> Because NOWHERE in the prophets doesnt it tell us that He has 3 parts.
.
The prophets don't use the word "parts" and they don't settle on a number. They tell us Elohim (plural) let us (plural) make man in our (plural) image. The Jews understood a difference between Elohim, Adoni and YHVH. Jews divided G-d into three columns and also into three triads. Where did they get this idea? There are people who can see beyond the surface text to understand the meaning of the text. You just don't happen to be one of them.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1071 Mar 22, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I don't understand what number one of your post is about what is the word you are referring to?
2. I understand that and agree with you
3. I believe that we have a sin nature
4. If you are saying the line was forgiven then were is it documented?
5. I need to look up the word as I don't read or understand Hebrew
6.Need to read further
7.I believe that he inherited a sin nature otherwise how would he be able to be tempted as we are
.
1. Number one was the Hebrew from 2 Sa 7:14 which wasn't posted probably because it doesn't support hebrew font. The option to translate the vav on the end of the word perversity as "them" rather than "him" shifts the focus on why he is punished by the rod of men. Solomon was never punished by the rod of men for his sins but Yeshua was punished for the sins of "them". This corresponds with Is 53 which tells us the Messiah is punished for the sins of "my" people.
.
3. In answer to the sin nature, I didn't disagree. I stated that people don't become sinners until they actually sin. Therefore since Yeshua had a human nature he had the potential to sin, but didn't. In either case what I am saying is that humans aren't born sinners or tainted by sin.
.
4. Jer 22:24 tells us that if Coniah was G-d's signet ring he would take it off (the threat). Hag 2:23 tells us that Zerubbabel is being made a signet (the restoration). These are the scriptures. Secondly if the curse remained then G-d is either a liar or is impotent because Coniah had 8 sons, when he was supposed to be childless. The rabbis understood this and asserted that Coniah would be in the line of the Messiah, which he was by adoption.
Punisher

Tokyo, Japan

#1072 Mar 22, 2013
Leviticus, Chapter 9
001: And it came to pass on the eighth day, that Moses called Aaron and his sons, and the elders of Israel;
002: And he said unto Aaron, Take thee a young calf for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the LORD.
003: And unto the children of Israel thou shalt speak, saying, Take ye a kid of the goats for a sin offering; and a calf and a lamb, both of the first year, without blemish, for a burnt offering;
004: Also a bullock and a ram for peace offerings, to sacrifice before the LORD; and a meat offering mingled with oil: for to day the LORD will appear unto you.
005: And they brought that which Moses commanded before the tabernacle of the congregation: and all the congregation drew near and stood before the LORD.
006: And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commanded that ye should do: and the glory of the LORD shall appear unto you.
007: And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the LORD commanded.
008: Aaron therefore went unto the altar, and slew the calf of the sin offering, which was for himself.
009: And the sons of Aaron brought the blood unto him: and he dipped his finger in the blood, and put it upon the horns of the altar, and poured out the blood at the bottom of the altar:
010: But the fat, and the kidneys, and the caul above the liver of the sin offering, he burnt upon the altar; as the LORD commanded Moses.
011: And the flesh and the hide he burnt with fire without the camp.
012: And he slew the burnt offering; and Aaron's sons presented unto him the blood, which he sprinkled round about upon the altar.
013: And they presented the burnt offering unto him, with the pieces thereof, and the head: and he burnt them upon the altar.
014: And he did wash the inwards and the legs, and burnt them upon the burnt offering on the altar.
015: And he brought the people's offering, and took the goat, which was the sin offering for the people, and slew it, and offered it for sin, as the first.
016: And he brought the burnt offering, and offered it according to the manner.
017: And he brought the meat offering, and took an handful thereof, and burnt it upon the altar, beside the burnt sacrifice of the morning.
018: He slew also the bullock and the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings, which was for the people: and Aaron's sons presented unto him the blood, which he sprinkled upon the altar round about,
019: And the fat of the bullock and of the ram, the rump, and that which covereth the inwards, and the kidneys, and the caul above the liver:
020: And they put the fat upon the breasts, and he burnt the fat upon the altar:
021: And the breasts and the right shoulder Aaron waved for a wave offering before the LORD; as Moses commanded.
022: And Aaron lifted up his hand toward the people, and blessed them, and came down from offering of the sin offering, and the burnt offering, and peace offerings.
023: And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of the congregation, and came out, and blessed the people: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto all the people.
024: And there came a fire out from before the LORD, and consumed upon the altar the burnt offering and the fat: which when all the people saw, they shouted, and fell on their faces.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Christian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Message to - YOU - The Mod. 5 min mwahaha 9
Who stole the keys to Heaven? 11 min Peaches1943 243
The Prophet of Jesus Christ 14 min Truth 33
Bible says Satan will be Destroyed, Not Live Fo... (Apr '10) 20 min jewishChristian 529
BIRTH CONTROL is ABORTION 21 min God the son 1
dollarsbill vs an athiest 49 min 10uhsee 300
A Prophecy From The Lord God 53 min God the son 11
Are World Events Pointing to End Times 6 hr Jake999 966
A Message from Nettie (Feb '14) 6 hr Cookie_Parker 1,407
Why would God not tell the Jews about hell or t... 8 hr Thinking 557
•••
Enter and win $5000
•••

Christian People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••