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#911
Mar 8, 2013
 
IamHim wrote:
A: Constantine brought an end to polytheism and introduced the empire to the idea of one true God. The fact that it was a pseudo Christianiy did not stop true believers from being able to follow the teachings of Jesus.

2. Constantine did not overthrow paganism. He instituted christianity with pagan ideals. In other words, combined Jesus with paganism. So how was paganism overthrown if it continued on with a twist of christianity?

A:He made it possible for true believers to be able to follow their faith in the true God without fear of persecution or death. This was not possible prior to him defeating pagan Rome

1. Paganism wasnt overthrown. You and I already agreed that Constantine inserted christianity with pagan ideals. So again how was paganism overthrown if the pagan religions was supplanted by pagan christianity?

A: Same as above

2. NOWHERE in the bible is Jesus referred to as Michael

A: I never said he was but Michael was the protector of the people which is what Constantine was.

3. I understand EXACTLY what you're saying. It just makes no sense and involves gymnastics. You have to flip one thing here another thing there to make it make sense.

A: The book of Revelation was written the way it was to protect the true believers. They would have known exactly what was being taught. The beginning of the book of revelation states that it signified..This refers to the conveyance of the truth by signs and symbols

So now the dragon/devil/serpent changes from pagan rome to "sinful thinking" with nothing to support this?

A:Sin is representative of wrong thinking. Eve disobeyed God by her lust for the fruit. It appealed to her own desires. The dragon is a sign of wrong thinking and the Roman army sinned against God by firstly not believing in him and by torturing the true believers. Satan is used in the same way. The words are generally referring to wrong actions and or thinking by individuals, empires
churches.

It didnt say the whole KNOWN world. That would be adding on just as Revelation 22 tells you not to do right? It says WHOLE WORLD. It also doesnt say they FORCED people to do anything. That is not deceit. Deceit is TRICKING you or LYING to you or MISLEADING. If I put a gun to your head and tell you to do something I didnt deceive you lol. The word FORCED is used in Revelation 13:16. Why not use the word here if thats what happened? Im just turning your logic around on you =/

A:The whole word is deceived as can be seen today. How many different religions are there all claiming to be the right one?

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#912
Mar 8, 2013
 
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on Ms. Sheilla you answered my other questions why continue to ignore these?
<quoted text>
Problems with your post
1. Egyptians worshiped a VARIETY of gods. Why you're choosing one and setting it above all others is just to fit your stance lol
2. Egyptians also had a serpent god. Not that it matters because there were a VARIETY of gods worshiped in ancient Egypt.
3. Can you stop using the word "translator"? Because these are translators:
http://bible.cc/exodus/7-9.htm
and
http://bible.cc/exodus/7-10.htm
These TRANSLATORS say that its serpent not dragon. If you're talking of the ORIGINAL HEBREW WRITERS than it would tannin. Which can mean serpent, sea monster/whale and dragon. But dont mind this please just answere these questions that you keep avoiding. You did the other ones already this shouldnt be too hard lol
<quoted text>
Like I said the word was chosen specifically. Sobek was the God of the Nile which was essential to life in Egypt and so it wasn't just any old run of the mill god.I am choosing this word because of what the Egyptians thought in relation to the dragon

The strength and speed of the crocodile was thought to be symbolic of the power of the Pharaoh, and the word "sovereign" was written with the hieroglyph of a crocodile. It was thought that Sobek could protect the Pharaoh from dark magic. Serpents did not represent power. Moses was showing that the power of the true God was much more powerful than anything that Egypt had to offer in relation to its magicians

http://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/sobek.html1 .

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#913
Mar 8, 2013
 
PROV1X81 wrote:
<quoted text>if there is a God,I'm betting there's just one.
I am a Christian and believe that there is only one God. Not all Christians believe in a triune God. I don't believe that Jesus was God and he never stated he was in fact there are many scriptures in the bible were he acknowledges this and the old testament confirms this as well

“Hear, O Israel! The LORD our God is one LORD!” Deut. 6:4
“Do we not all have one Father? Has not one God created us?” Mal. 2:10
“Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me” Isa. 43:10
“I am God, and there is no other” Isa. 45:22

“I am God, and there is no one like Me” Isa. 46:9

New Ttestament

Jesus has faith in God. Hebrews 2:17,18, Hebrews 3:2

Jesus prays to God. John 17:1-3

Jesus is a servant of God. Acts 3:13

Jesus has one who is God to him. Revelation 3:12

Jesus is in subjection to God. 1 Corinthians 15:28

Jesus has reverent submission, fear, of God. Hebrews 5:7

Jesus is given lordship by God. Acts 2:36

Jesus is exalted by God.Acts 5:31

Jesus is given authority by God. Philippians 2:9

Jesus is given kingship by God. Luke 1:32,33

Jesus is given judgment by God. Acts 10:42

Jesus is at the right hand of God. Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:33, Romans 8:3
Ant

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#914
Mar 8, 2013
 
There is only ONE GOD..Period (YAHWEH)

All other Gods are man made idols that mankind himself made into a God. If you look at the sun and says thats your God, its just a idol that you made into a God, just like the Israelites made a golden calf and worshiped it when Moses went up the Mt for 40 days.

Why would God create everything and say im a jealous God, just to turn around and create other Gods, so you have to pick and choose and if you dont pick him he is sending you to hell.

Jews and Christians believe same God. Many, not all Jews, just dont believe Jesus is the Messiah.

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#915
Mar 8, 2013
 
I have a question to ask re the number of books in the bible if any one can answer it

The Protetant OT contains 39 books, the Catholic OT 46, the Eastern Orthodox 51, whereas the Hebrew Bible contains only 24 books. Who has the right version and how can all scripture be inspired of God if parts are missing from some bibles?
IamHim

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#916
Mar 8, 2013
 
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
A:He made it possible for true believers to be able to follow their faith in the true God without fear of persecution or death. This was not possible prior to him defeating pagan Rome['QUOTE]

What you keep ignoring is that Rome was still Pagan even after that. Constantine wasnt a saint following Jesus. He was a paganist lol

[QUOTE who="Sheilaa"]
A: I never said he was but Michael was the protector of the people which is what Constantine was.
Michael is Michael lol. Constantine was Constantine. You never explained who were the angels in the matter either? If the devil represented Pagan Rome than who were the angels? You'll just say say something that will not be supported by scripture
Sheilaa wrote:
A: The book of Revelation was written the way it was to protect the true believers. They would have known exactly what was being taught. The beginning of the book of revelation states that it signified..This refers to the conveyance of the truth by signs and symbols
Yes. But the context tells us what its about. You just applied what you thought it meant without help from the context.
Sheilaa wrote:
So now the dragon/devil/serpent changes from pagan rome to "sinful thinking" with nothing to support this?
A:Sin is representative of wrong thinking. Eve disobeyed God by her lust for the fruit. It appealed to her own desires. The dragon is a sign of wrong thinking and the Roman army sinned against God by firstly not believing in him and by torturing the true believers. Satan is used in the same way. The words are generally referring to wrong actions and or thinking by individuals, empires
churches.
This is what I meant from your gymnastics. First Satan meant the Romans now it means sinful thinking because the Romans were never bound for 1000 years lol. Thats exactly what I meant by gymnastics
Sheilaa wrote:
A:The whole word is deceived as can be seen today. How many different religions are there all claiming to be the right one?
The Romans are not the reason the whole world is deceived I can tell you that.
IamHim

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#917
Mar 8, 2013
 
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said the word was chosen specifically. Sobek was the God of the Nile which was essential to life in Egypt and so it wasn't just any old run of the mill god.I am choosing this word because of what the Egyptians thought in relation to the dragon
The strength and speed of the crocodile was thought to be symbolic of the power of the Pharaoh, and the word "sovereign" was written with the hieroglyph of a crocodile. It was thought that Sobek could protect the Pharaoh from dark magic. Serpents did not represent power. Moses was showing that the power of the true God was much more powerful than anything that Egypt had to offer in relation to its magicians
http://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/sobek.html1 .
Come on Sheilla lol. Thats TWICE that you correctly responded to what I said. Not dodging anything.. So I dont see why you would skip over these questions

Come on Ms. Sheilla you answered my other questions why continue to ignore these?
IamHim wrote:
Im not even gonna waste time on this. I dont even have to point out the contradictions in the NT. I dont even have to point out how we do not know/understand ALL THE HEBREW that is in the bible and that there are certain verses/phrases where the meaning is uncertain. Do I?
Concerning what we are discussing; heres what we know
1. Tannin can be either a dragon, serpent, sea monster/whale
2. Tannin is used in verse 9/10 of Exodus 7.
3. Verse 15 of Exodus 7 tells us that it is a serpent that the rod turned into
Therefore how could I come to the conclusion that not only is tannin not a sea monster/whale or serpent, but automatically dragon? ESPECIALLY when verse 15 tells me that its a serpent. how would verse 15 not explain to us that the correct translation of tannin is serpent?
Problems with your post again lol

1. Again the Egyptians worshiped a variety of gods and the God of Israel showed He was above ALL OF THEM. NOWHERE did He specify the croc god you keep bringing up.

2. You're still ignoring Exodus 7:15 telling us that the rod Moses threw turned into a serpent

3. You're still ignoring tannin being translated as serpent in certain places as the bible

4. With 2 and 3 being FACTS, how would one assume its dragon? Simply because there was a croc god? When also there was a serpent god? A falcon god? Among others?
IamHim

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#918
Mar 8, 2013
 
Sheilaa wrote:
I have a question to ask re the number of books in the bible if any one can answer it
The Protetant OT contains 39 books, the Catholic OT 46, the Eastern Orthodox 51, whereas the Hebrew Bible contains only 24 books. Who has the right version and how can all scripture be inspired of God if parts are missing from some bibles?
Well which came first? The Hebrew bible or the Protestant?

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#919
Mar 8, 2013
 
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Michael is Michael lol. Constantine was Constantine. You never explained who were the angels in the matter either? If the devil represented Pagan Rome than who were the angels? You'll just say say something that will not be supported by scripture
<quoted text>
Yes. But the context tells us what its about. You just applied what you thought it meant without help from the context.
<quoted text>
This is what I meant from your gymnastics. First Satan meant the Romans now it means sinful thinking because the Romans were never bound for 1000 years lol. Thats exactly what I meant by gymnastics
<quoted text>
The Romans are not the reason the whole world is deceived I can tell you that.
Michael is Michael lol. Constantine was Constantine. You never explained who were the angels in the matter either? If the devil represented Pagan Rome than who were the angels? You'll just say say something that will not be supported by scripture

A: It is symbolism . Michael was symbolized by Constantine. Of course he wasn't Michael he was a representation of the protector of the people. In revelation Michael leads the people against the forces of evil. This is what Constantine did against the forces of paganism. The support that paganism had received under Licinius was lost. Licinius demolished churches and killed bishops etc etc. The pagans were ejected from their positions of authority. You only need to read history to know this is true. The angels of the devil where the ones who participated in carrying out the persecution of the true believers. The believers at the time would have only been to aware of Revelation was talking about
This is what I meant from your gymnastics. First Satan meant the Romans now it means sinful thinking because the Romans were never bound for 1000 years lol. Thats exactly what I meant by gymnastics

A: Sin which represents the wrong thinking and action of humankind will be bound for a 1000 years at the return of Jesus. This hasn't yet happened.

The Romans are not the reason the whole world is deceived I can tell you that.

A: It started with the Romans and is continuing to this day. Nothing will change until the return of Jesus

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#920
Mar 8, 2013
 
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Well which came first? The Hebrew bible or the Protestant?
The Hebrew. So where did all the other books come from and why are none of them in agreement?

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#921
Mar 8, 2013
 
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on Sheilla lol. Thats TWICE that you correctly responded to what I said. Not dodging anything.. So I dont see why you would skip over these questions
Come on Ms. Sheilla you answered my other questions why continue to ignore these?
<quoted text>
Problems with your post again lol
1. Again the Egyptians worshiped a variety of gods and the God of Israel showed He was above ALL OF THEM. NOWHERE did He specify the croc god you keep bringing up.
2. You're still ignoring Exodus 7:15 telling us that the rod Moses threw turned into a serpent
3. You're still ignoring tannin being translated as serpent in certain places as the bible
4. With 2 and 3 being FACTS, how would one assume its dragon? Simply because there was a croc god? When also there was a serpent god? A falcon god? Among others?
Then why didn't they use the same word and keep the text consistent. It seems as if they wanted to make a point. The other Gods you have mention had nothing to do with with challenging the power of pharaoh

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#922
Mar 8, 2013
 
I'm off for lunch
IamHim

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#923
Mar 8, 2013
 
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>

A: It is symbolism . Michael was symbolized by Constantine. Of course he wasn't Michael he was a representation of the protector of the people. In revelation Michael leads the people against the forces of evil. This is what Constantine did against the forces of paganism. The support that paganism had received under Licinius was lost. Licinius demolished churches and killed bishops etc etc. The pagans were ejected from their positions of authority. You only need to read history to know this is true. The angels of the devil where the ones who participated in carrying out the persecution of the true believers. The believers at the time would have only been to aware of Revelation was talking about
Michael means "Who is like God". Are you telling me that this represents a pagan Constantine? Who remained a pagan even AFTER making christianity the national religion? And not regualar christianity that follows Jesus' teachings but pagan christianity?
Sheilaa wrote:
A: Sin which represents the wrong thinking and action of humankind will be bound for a 1000 years at the return of Jesus. This hasn't yet happened.
GYMNASTICS LOL. It flipped from the devil being the Romans to being sinful thinking. With NOTHING from scripture to support this change
Sheilaa wrote:
The Romans are not the reason the whole world is deceived I can tell you that.
A: It started with the Romans and is continuing to this day. Nothing will change until the return of Jesus
No it did not start with the Romans. The world was deceived before then and after that.
IamHim

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#924
Mar 8, 2013
 
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why didn't they use the same word and keep the text consistent. It seems as if they wanted to make a point. The other Gods you have mention had nothing to do with with challenging the power of pharaoh
It doesnt matter. Tannin can be serpent, dragon, or sea monster according to the translators you trust in. Therefore, if Exodus 7:15 tells us that it was a serpent why would it STILL be a dragon? The evidence isnt on your side but mine.

Yes the other gods have something to do with challenging pharoah. Cuz Egypt worshiped MANY gods. Not just one. So you picking one and acting as if thats the one the God of Israel attacked is guesswork with nothing from scripture. Exodus 12:12 tells us that He executed judgement on ALL gods so again why are you choosing one over the rest? Why are you ignoring Exodus 7:15 telling us that it wasnt a dragon or sea monster that Moses' rod turned into but a SERPENT? As I said the evidence is on my side. All you're doing is grasping at straws to hold onto your interpretation. If you werent, you would have answered my questions a long time ago instead of continuously repeating yourself
IamHim

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#925
Mar 8, 2013
 
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
The Hebrew. So where did all the other books come from and why are none of them in agreement?
I havent read the extra books of the catholics but everything (if we believe the books of Moses) is supposed to be based off the torah. The NT does that but adds/takes away from it while twisting scripture from the OT. Thats specifically why I disagree with it

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#926
Mar 8, 2013
 
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesnt matter. Tannin can be serpent, dragon, or sea monster according to the translators you trust in. Therefore, if Exodus 7:15 tells us that it was a serpent why would it STILL be a dragon? The evidence isnt on your side but mine.
Yes the other gods have something to do with challenging pharoah. Cuz Egypt worshiped MANY gods. Not just one. So you picking one and acting as if thats the one the God of Israel attacked is guesswork with nothing from scripture. Exodus 12:12 tells us that He executed judgement on ALL gods so again why are you choosing one over the rest? Why are you ignoring Exodus 7:15 telling us that it wasnt a dragon or sea monster that Moses' rod turned into but a SERPENT? As I said the evidence is on my side. All you're doing is grasping at straws to hold onto your interpretation. If you werent, you would have answered my questions a long time ago instead of continuously repeating yourself
He wasn't dealing with every God when Moses was down to the water just one. Like I said if they were going to be consistent they would have used the same Hebrew number. That word was chosen specifically just like it is in other parts of the bible and that is why it is different. I gave you the example of the virgin. I'm not grasping at anything just reading the text.

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#927
Mar 8, 2013
 
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
I havent read the extra books of the catholics but everything (if we believe the books of Moses) is supposed to be based off the torah. The NT does that but adds/takes away from it while twisting scripture from the OT. Thats specifically why I disagree with it
What do you mean it adds /takes away in what way?

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#928
Mar 8, 2013
 
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Michael means "Who is like God". Are you telling me that this represents a pagan Constantine? Who remained a pagan even AFTER making christianity the national religion? And not regualar christianity that follows Jesus' teachings but pagan christianity?
<quoted text>
GYMNASTICS LOL. It flipped from the devil being the Romans to being sinful thinking. With NOTHING from scripture to support this change
<quoted text>
No it did not start with the Romans. The world was deceived before then and after that.
It is the symbolism that you are missing. There is no flipping I have stated from the start that it began with the serpent and it was to do with WRONG THINKING by Eve.Instead of listening to God she listened to her derires The serpent put the temptation there in the form of a lie but it was Eve who broke God's law no one else. No one can force us to do something that we don't want to as Jesus showed. Constantine was the vehicle that God used to take down polytheism. His angels were his followers the people and his men. This is supported by HISTORY. The fact that he introduced pseudo Christianity does not detract from the fact that he brought about the downfall of poytheism. He was used by God as part of his plan. God called Cyrus his anointed and yet he was a pagan. He was carrying out God's plan
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#929
Mar 8, 2013
 
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
He wasn't dealing with every God when Moses was down to the water just one. Like I said if they were going to be consistent they would have used the same Hebrew number. That word was chosen specifically just like it is in other parts of the bible and that is why it is different. I gave you the example of the virgin. I'm not grasping at anything just reading the text.
Show me (using the bible) which gods the God of Israel dealt with during Moses' life. Meaning show me the names and different places where these names were brought up. If you cannot then as I said you are grasping.

The FACT is that the bible doesnt designate the specific gods of Egypt and which one the God of Israel was combatting at different times. It simply states that He executed judgement on ALL the gods of Egypt. The reason I said you're grasping at straws is because you're ignoring questions posed to you. If you answered (and didnt just try to weasel your way out of them) then maybe I could see your point more clearly. I wouldnt change, but at least I would see that you're not putting hands of your ears and eyes and saying you do not see/hear anything lol
IamHim

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#930
Mar 8, 2013
 
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
It is the symbolism that you are missing. There is no flipping I have stated from the start that it began with the serpent and it was to do with WRONG THINKING by Eve.Instead of listening to God she listened to her derires The serpent put the temptation there in the form of a lie but it was Eve who broke God's law no one else. No one can force us to do something that we don't want to as Jesus showed. Constantine was the vehicle that God used to take down polytheism. His angels were his followers the people and his men. This is supported by HISTORY. The fact that he introduced pseudo Christianity does not detract from the fact that he brought about the downfall of poytheism. He was used by God as part of his plan. God called Cyrus his anointed and yet he was a pagan. He was carrying out God's plan
You're flipping it lol. First Satan represents the Romans. Then he represents "sinful thinking" when the Roman interpretation would not fit anymore lol. GYMNASTICS

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