Do Jews and Christians worship the sa...

“Jesus is Lord”

Since: Aug 11

Greenwood, Indiana

#669 Feb 24, 2013
Tiny Timmie wrote:
I know we share Old Testament Scriptures, but Jews don't interpret the Old Testament as Christians do.
Christians worship Jesus of Nazareth AS GOD. The Jews don't. Christians believe in a "Tribune" God. Jews do not believe in the Trinity as Christians teach.
It seems to me as a new believer that a lot of the Israel-like stuff that appears on "Christian" TV and radio doesn't really go with Christian teaching.
I'm just a newbie Christian but I find this kinda confusing.
Before you start a thread like you are doing here you better get your information right. There is only one God "FACT" and everyone worship Him in there own way and that is called "SIN". We are to worship God, His way not mankind way, man worship God to fit there own sinful lifestyle and that is wrong. A true Pastor will teach the Bible in truth not man made lies, about 95% of the churches in this country preach in sin FACT....
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#670 Feb 25, 2013
Frank wrote:
<quoted text>
You guys believe that Yeshuah is G-d.
You believe that Yeshuah "died for our sins"
Therefore you believe that G-d killed himself for the sins of what He created.
There ya go. Sure I'm fixated on it--its absurd.
.
OK you win, you're fixated on the absurd.
Frank from Fayetteville

Fayetteville, NC

#671 Feb 25, 2013
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
OK you win, you're fixated on the absurd.
Let's be honest here.

As a believer, what's more absurd--that the G-d of Moses is one or that he became 3, prayed to himself, was tempted by the devil which he created, and then killed himself for the forgiveness of the mistakes of His creation all the while calling out to himself for help while hanging on the cross?

Seriously man, think about what you're saying here--the above is an accurate description of what you guys believe.

Sure, you'll deny it, reword it and call it something else, but its the gist of what you believe none-the-less.

The honest position would be to say "yes frank, you have a valid point but I choose to believe this way", because you kmow that I'm right whether you admit it or not.

You're an example of severe attachement to views, unwilling to admit that there might some validity to anything that contradicts what you choose to believe in.

“ ILKS r kewl ”

Since: Apr 09

Conch republic

#672 Feb 25, 2013
Frank from Fayetteville wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's be honest here.
Yeah lets do that.. just admit you're an oreo.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#673 Mar 4, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
If you accepted The Triune Godhead of The Trinity, you wouldn't have these difficulties.
The Trinity is One.
We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity."
The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire:
"The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e., by nature one God."
The divine persons are really distinct from one another.
"God is one but not solitary."
"Father," "Son," "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another:
"He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."
They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."
The divine Unity is Triune.
http://old.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2c...
Hi Cisco. Sorry it has taken so long for me to answer I have only been discharged today from hospital.Hi Cisco. A triune godhead makes no sense. Why is it not mentioned in the old testament if it is of God? When Jesus walked the earth there was no mention of a triune God. It has been inserted in to the Greek interpretation of the new testament based on the Persian and hellenistic beliefs.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#674 Mar 4, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Because thats not what God Almighty stated would happen. I mean Moses tried to do that and was turned down and God Almighty said:
"Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book"
So why would it change?
I apologize for not getting back sooner but I have only just been discharged from hospital this morning.

Moses didn't try to "do" anything. He was commanded by God to sacrifice his son so he was obeying God's command. He wasn't turned down by God, it was a test that God gave him and he passed it. God stated to him " “Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about”(Genesis 22:2).

When the Lord replied to Moses, "Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." He was not talking about the "Book of Life," but about the "BOOK OF THE LIVING" (those who are presently alive upon earth.) Psalm 69:26-28 says, "For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. Let them be blotted out of THE BOOK OF THE LIVING, and not be written with the righteous." God has a book in which is written the name of every person alive upon earth. When that person dies, his/her name would be blotted out of that book.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#675 Mar 4, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe evil spirits/demons exist. I know people that have witnessed evil spiritual activity. I have as well 2 or 3 times and that is why I believe they exist.
As for why Im using it, I already said to prove the lack of logic in your stance. Do I need to keep repeating this for you to understand?
What you believe and what the facts are are two different things. Nowhere in the old testament is a cosmic eternal being called satan taught. You need to look at what the old testament scriptures taught at the time and not try and interpret them in the light of the current day. You also need to do research to understand the meaning of the word satan and devil.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#676 Mar 4, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
"The only reason he conquered death is that he is the only one who has come back to prove that he was sinless."
This would be your opinion.
"Humans who were alive at the time support this No one has seen the prophets that you mention"
Not sure what you mean? Hopefully you're not saying that there is proof that Jesus resurrected but not proof of the prophets?
Why would no one else come back but Jesus if they had also been resurrected ? Why would others be in hiding? The fact is that they are still in hell (the grave)
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#677 Mar 4, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
I apologize for not getting back sooner but I have only just been discharged from hospital this morning.
Hope you're doing well :) I dont know why you rebumped this convo but I can continue if I want to. I hope you're ok and not going to continue twisting scripture to believe as you wish
Sheilaa wrote:
Moses didn't try to "do" anything. He was commanded by God to sacrifice his son so he was obeying God's command. He wasn't turned down by God, it was a test that God gave him and he passed it. God stated to him " “Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about”(Genesis 22:2).
You're confusing ABRAHAM for MOSES. Moses was never (well according to the bible) told to sacrifice his son. What happened was Israel sinned and Moses tried to stand in place of their punishment. Then God denied him this and said "Whosoever hath sinned against me, HIM WILL I BLOT OUT OF MY BOOK." This is exactly the same as christians saying Jesus stands in judgement for their sins. Well not according to the OT.
Sheilaa wrote:
When the Lord replied to Moses, "Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." He was not talking about the "Book of Life," but about the "BOOK OF THE LIVING" (those who are presently alive upon earth.) Psalm 69:26-28 says, "For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. Let them be blotted out of THE BOOK OF THE LIVING, and not be written with the righteous." God has a book in which is written the name of every person alive upon earth. When that person dies, his/her name would be blotted out of that book.
While I disagree that God Almighty has a book of life AND a book of the living, it doesnt change anything. Moses tried to atone for the sins of Israel by dying in their place. God Almighty told them "No only the one..." well you get the idea.
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#678 Mar 4, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
What you believe and what the facts are are two different things. Nowhere in the old testament is a cosmic eternal being called satan taught. You need to look at what the old testament scriptures taught at the time and not try and interpret them in the light of the current day. You also need to do research to understand the meaning of the word satan and devil.
The difference between the Satan in the NT and OT is that ne is a servant doing a job (OT) while the other is a being that causes others to sin by lies, deception etc....(NT). That is the only difference. If you believe the NT you should believe that the devil exists as a being that has deceived the whole world. Well that is what Revelation alludes to. The NT also alludes to demons existing among other things. But if you just twist it to fit whatever viewpoint you hold, theres not much else I can do than to point to those scriptures and read it AS IS. Not adding any private interpretation to it

I dont need to research that. You need to read the OT then come back and have a discussion on it. How can I discuss something with you when you havent even read all of it? You already admitted to someone teaching you to read the NT first how about you go and read the OT (without the private interpretation) and then come back and we can discuss whatever?
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#679 Mar 4, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would no one else come back but Jesus if they had also been resurrected ? Why would others be in hiding? The fact is that they are still in hell (the grave)
This is why I said you need to read the OT. Two things

1. A certain prophet(s) brought back human(s) from death. Google it.

2. According to the prophet Daniel, no one will be resurrected till the Day of Judgement. Not "once they die".

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#680 Mar 4, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Hope you're doing well :) I dont know why you rebumped this convo but I can continue if I want to. I hope you're ok and not going to continue twisting scripture to believe as you wish
<quoted text>
You're confusing ABRAHAM for MOSES. Moses was never (well according to the bible) told to sacrifice his son. What happened was Israel sinned and Moses tried to stand in place of their punishment. Then God denied him this and said "Whosoever hath sinned against me, HIM WILL I BLOT OUT OF MY BOOK." This is exactly the same as christians saying Jesus stands in judgement for their sins. Well not according to the OT.
<quoted text>
While I disagree that God Almighty has a book of life AND a book of the living, it doesnt change anything. Moses tried to atone for the sins of Israel by dying in their place. God Almighty told them "No only the one..." well you get the idea.
I meant Abraham not Moses in relation to him being asked to sacrifice his son. If there is only one book then everyone has to be blotted out if we are talking about sin because we have all sinned
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#681 Mar 4, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
I meant Abraham not Moses in relation to him being asked to sacrifice his son. If there is only one book then everyone has to be blotted out if we are talking about sin because we have all sinned
Not if you're forgiven and He chooses to forget your past sin ;)

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#682 Mar 4, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
This is why I said you need to read the OT. Two things
1. A certain prophet(s) brought back human(s) from death. Google it.
2. According to the prophet Daniel, no one will be resurrected till the Day of Judgement. Not "once they die".
1. Yes they may have but they are now still dead. Jesus resurrected Lasarus but he then died again (it was temporary). He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up." Then His disciples said, "Lord, if he sleeps he will get well." However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead. And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him."

2 This excludes Jesus as has been witnessed by many people at the time

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#683 Mar 4, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
The difference between the Satan in the NT and OT is that ne is a servant doing a job (OT) while the other is a being that causes others to sin by lies, deception etc....(NT). That is the only difference. If you believe the NT you should believe that the devil exists as a being that has deceived the whole world. Well that is what Revelation alludes to. The NT also alludes to demons existing among other things. But if you just twist it to fit whatever viewpoint you hold, theres not much else I can do than to point to those scriptures and read it AS IS. Not adding any private interpretation to it
I dont need to research that. You need to read the OT then come back and have a discussion on it. How can I discuss something with you when you havent even read all of it? You already admitted to someone teaching you to read the NT first how about you go and read the OT (without the private interpretation) and then come back and we can discuss whatever?
I have read the OT scriptures in relation to satan and will answer any questions that you may have in relation to a satan. The terminology is to do with adversary not a cosmic being and if you can, try and show me from the scriptures that it means anything else just based on old testament scriptures

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#684 Mar 4, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Not if you're forgiven and He chooses to forget your past sin ;)
Why would He forgive some and not others? What basis does He use to forgive? He stated that sacrifices were needed to atone for sins. It was God who initiated the sacrificial system. Why if it doesn't absolve a person's sins?
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#685 Mar 4, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Yes they may have but they are now still dead. Jesus resurrected Lasarus but he then died again (it was temporary). He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up." Then His disciples said, "Lord, if he sleeps he will get well." However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead. And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him."
2 This excludes Jesus as has been witnessed by many people at the time
1. What I was saying is that Jesus didnt resurrect because he was "perfect" but to show that there was a resurrection. I could go and show how (according to the law given to Israel) Jesus sinned, but I dont want to do that. I have my own sin but if you ask I can. But as I said I rather not. My point being, he sinned as well.

2. Though Im not particularly show of what the NT purports of Jesus and how it relates to the Torah, I never said Jesus was or wasnt resurrected.
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#686 Mar 4, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
I have read the OT scriptures in relation to satan and will answer any questions that you may have in relation to a satan. The terminology is to do with adversary not a cosmic being and if you can, try and show me from the scriptures that it means anything else just based on old testament scriptures
No need to beat dead horses is there? I mean I already showed you Job 1 and 2 but you twisted it to meaning a man somehow even though one wouldnt automatically get that from the text.

Besides dont you believe in the NT? Why would you ignore the many references to the Devil in the NT if you believe in it? If you say its a "Roman" or the "roman gov't" how could we ALL come to this conclusion so we know its not privately INTERPRETED?
IamHim

Yukon, OK

#687 Mar 4, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would He forgive some and not others? What basis does He use to forgive? He stated that sacrifices were needed to atone for sins. It was God who initiated the sacrificial system. Why if it doesn't absolve a person's sins?
What do you mean why would HE? Doesnt the OT tell you how to be forgiven? Doesnt it tell you the basis He uses to forgive?

No. He did not state that sacrifices were needed. They were an option though. God Almighty ABSOLVES SINS. Not a ritual. Which is why in Isaiah (and other places) He condemned Israel for doing sacrifices in VAIN. Showing that it wasnt the act of sacrifice that forgave them of their sins. First and FOREMOST it is GOD that forgives sins.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#688 Mar 5, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
1. What I was saying is that Jesus didnt resurrect because he was "perfect" but to show that there was a resurrection. I could go and show how (according to the law given to Israel) Jesus sinned, but I dont want to do that. I have my own sin but if you ask I can. But as I said I rather not. My point being, he sinned as well.
2. Though Im not particularly show of what the NT purports of Jesus and how it relates to the Torah, I never said Jesus was or wasnt resurrected.
Show me that Jesus wasn't resurrected if he took on sin for all of us. Show me were he sinned

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