Do Jews and Christians worship the sa...
IamHim

Duncan, OK

#489 Feb 21, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why aren't you honest and why don't you post all the meanings of what is stated? To suit what you believe?
What???

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#490 Feb 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
Before I start, remember I asked if you could use the CONTEXT to explain why something means this or that. Not just make statements. Because as I read your quote, thats all you (or whoever you googled the answer from) did. "This means this because this could not mean that" is not an example of using the context to explain something.
<quoted text>
First example of what I was talking about. Why is it referring to political arenas? Shouldnt we all be able to get the same interpretation from scripture? Well what leads us to believe this is political arenas as you say? Thats why I asked you to use the CONTEXT. Not just make statements
<quoted text>
All this is is your PRIVATE INTERPRETATION. Which is why you're INTERPRETING "this as this" or "that as that" instead of explaining it USING THE CONTEXT. Can you show me ONE parable of Jesus where the context didnt explain what he was talking about? Nope. But now in Revelation we have to make guesses at what the sun is and what the moon is with no help from the CONTEXT. So you chose to ignore me asking you to use the context I guess and just repeated the interpretation you said earlier except diving in deeper.
<quoted text>
LMAO again just YOU interpreting something as something. Why cant you use the CONTEXT of the chapter to explain why these things mean these things? I mean every other parable in the bible is like that, why not this?
Before I start, remember I asked if you could use the CONTEXT to explain why something means this or that. Not just make statements. Because as I read your quote, thats all you (or whoever you googled the answer from) did. "This means this because this could not mean that" is not an example of using the context to explain something.

A: I have provided information that is is context. I challenge you to provide what YOU think it means.

First example of what I was talking about. Why is it referring to political arenas? Shouldnt we all be able to get the same interpretation from scripture? Well what leads us to believe this is political arenas as you say? Thats why I asked you to use the CONTEXT. Not just make statements

A:Do women have their children in heaven? Does it make sense to take it literally?

All this is is your PRIVATE INTERPRETATION. Which is why you're INTERPRETING "this as this" or "that as that" instead of explaining it USING THE CONTEXT. Can you show me ONE parable of Jesus where the context didnt explain what he was talking about? Nope. But now in Revelation we have to make guesses at what the sun is and what the moon is with no help from the CONTEXT. So you chose to ignore me asking you to use the context I guess and just repeated the interpretation you said earlier except diving in deeper.

A:If you look at history you will see that the sun god was worshipped and reflected the beliefs of other nations. It is not just my private interpretation it's just that you are not well read and do not know your history

LMAO again just YOU interpreting something as something. Why cant you use the CONTEXT of the chapter to explain why these things mean these things? I mean every other parable in the bible is like that, why not this?

A: I have used the context of the chapter. Why don't you provide something that disproves what I have said.
IamHim

Duncan, OK

#491 Feb 21, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
You will find words have more than one meaning, such as seed, water or door. This is what translators do - read context. The Christian translators correctly understood at that time a young Hebrew was a virgin.
Strong's Concordance Hebrew-English
Isaiah 7:14 virgin:almah
1) virgin, young woman
www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/...
Come on what do you the "apostolic-churches" are gonna believe? EXACTLY AS MATTHEW 1:23 states! That Jesus was born of a virgin. Find a better source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almah

Look at Bethulah and where its used in Isaiah. Each time it means VIRGIN and yet almah (which is young woman to any HEBREW speaking person not an apologetic) is somehow the best word used Isaiah 7:14?
IamHim

Duncan, OK

#492 Feb 21, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you making this up as you go along?
'Sun'- does symbolize governing powers, but woman is the church of God. The church of God that brought forth the Messiah was Israel with twelve tribes.
Yes I read this the first time you put that. HOW DOES SUN REPRESENT GOVERNING POWERS? And I dont mean your words, I mean demonstrating it using THE TEXT?
socci wrote:
12:5 "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up to God, and to his throne."
This next verse is the 1260 year period of the dark ages & God's Christian church..
12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and three score days."
Michael the archangel is Jesus; archangel being chief of the angels, not really a created angelic being rather God.(Dn 12:1)
12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"
Rev 12 study if interested..
www.revelationbibleprophecy.org/revelation12....
Rev 10 was about the Protestant Reformation and their little book - the Bible.
www.youtbe.com/watch...
I now see this is socci and not sheila. Well No, Michael is not Jesus nor is your interpretation ANYTHING other than private interpretation. Which is why both of you cannot explain it using the CONTEXT of the verse and just say "this = this".

Oh yea if Michael is Jesus than what the heck is Jude talking about?

Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James,

Not that Jude calls himself a servant of Jesus. Go later and he mentions Michael:

9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said,“The Lord rebuke you!

Hmm why not say Jesus the archangel? In fact where in the ENTIRE BIBLE is Jesus referred to as an archangel? HES NOT! lol Lastly from Jude:

17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold.

Back to referring to "Michael" as Jesus huh? Is God the author of confusion?
IamHim

Duncan, OK

#493 Feb 21, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>

A: I have provided information that is is context. I challenge you to provide what YOU think it means.
Read it without your private interpretation and then thats what it means lol. No need for me to explain anything of it
Sheilaa wrote:
A:Do women have their children in heaven? Does it make sense to take it literally?
It was not a literal woman lol. It was a sign for John. Now can you explain (again using the context which if you didnt know, means the surrounding verses) how sun = political arenas? You cant because its PRIVATELY INTERPRETED. Not something I can just read and understand.
Sheilaa wrote:
A:If you look at history you will see that the sun god was worshipped and reflected the beliefs of other nations. It is not just my private interpretation it's just that you are not well read and do not know your history
Now who is presuming things? So you cannot display how the sun = political arenas? Gotcha lol
Sheilaa wrote:
A: I have used the context of the chapter. Why don't you provide something that disproves what I have said.
I already did disprove it. Just by asking you to display how we ALL could come to this same conclusion. But you cant do that can you? That by itself disproves your private interpretation of scripture. Unless you can display how EVERYONE could come to the same conclusion you did.

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#494 Feb 21, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you making this up as you go along?
'Sun'- does symbolize governing powers, but woman is the church of God. The church of God that brought forth the Messiah was Israel with twelve tribes.
12:5 "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up to God, and to his throne."
This next verse is the 1260 year period of the dark ages & God's Christian church..
12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and three score days."
Michael the archangel is Jesus; archangel being chief of the angels, not really a created angelic being rather God.(Dn 12:1)
12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"
Rev 12 study if interested..
www.revelationbibleprophecy.org/revelation12....
Rev 10 was about the Protestant Reformation and their little book - the Bible.
www.youtube.com/watch...
Are you making this up as you go along?
'Sun'- does symbolize governing powers, but woman is the church of God. The church of God that brought forth the Messiah was Israel with twelve tribes.
12:5 "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up to God, and to his throne."

A: The man child is not referring to Jesus the reason being that the revelation was to do with things that must shortly come to pass. What you are stating had already passed.

This next verse is the 1260 year period of the dark ages & God's Christian church..

12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and three score days."

A: The woman had given birth to a tyrant. The woman represents the Christian Church that Constantine used as a stepping stone to power. The church was split between the Caecilian and Donatus, bishops of Carthage each claiming that the other had apostasised. Gibbon stated that the Donatists were denied the political recognition and were excluded from the civil and religious communion of the state church. The woman now relates to that section of the church that repudiates affiliations with Rome either politically or ecclesiastically

Michael the archangel is Jesus; archangel being chief of the angels, not really a created angelic being rather God.(Dn 12:1)
12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"
Rev 12 study if interested..

A:This warfare took place in the same "heaven" as that of the women. God states that he cannot look upon sin and so it is inconceivable that this war would have taken place in heaven. The will of the father is done in heaven and this is what Jesus taught his apostles

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#495 Feb 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the text as its written and thats my explanation as what it means lol. No need for me to play gymnastics with it
So you are unable to tell me what it means? I thought so. No need to play gymnastics just tell me what it means?
IamHim

Duncan, OK

#496 Feb 21, 2013
Where does God Almighty say that He cannot look upon sin? And if so, how does He look upon the earth if there is sin everywhere?

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#497 Feb 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Read it without your private interpretation and then thats what it means lol. No need for me to explain anything of it
<quoted text>
It was not a literal woman lol. It was a sign for John. Now can you explain (again using the context which if you didnt know, means the surrounding verses) how sun = political arenas? You cant because its PRIVATELY INTERPRETED. Not something I can just read and understand.
<quoted text>
Now who is presuming things? So you cannot display how the sun = political arenas? Gotcha lol
<quoted text>
I already did disprove it. Just by asking you to display how we ALL could come to this same conclusion. But you cant do that can you? That by itself disproves your private interpretation of scripture. Unless you can display how EVERYONE could come to the same conclusion you did.
You've done a lot of posting but proven nothing to support your claims.

Read it without your private interpretation and then thats what it means lol. No need for me to explain anything of it

A:Reading it literally is not what it means. Try again

It was not a literal woman lol. It was a sign for John. Now can you explain (again using the context which if you didnt know, means the surrounding verses) how sun = political arenas? You cant because its PRIVATELY INTERPRETED. Not something I can just read and understand.

A" I know it is not a literal woman thanks for agreeing with me. Then tell me what YOU it means. I don't believe you can BUT you may be able to surprise me

Now who is presuming things? So you cannot display how the sun = political arenas? Gotcha lol

A: You have got nothing. Do women give birth in heaven and if they don't you tell me what it means. LOL

I already did disprove it.

A: By we you mean you. As can be seen on this thread we already have three different interpretations

That by itself disproves your private interpretation of scripture. Unless you can display how EVERYONE could come to the same conclusion you did.

A: It disproves nothing other than you are unable to tell me what you think the interpretation means

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#498 Feb 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
Where does God Almighty say that He cannot look upon sin? And if so, how does He look upon the earth if there is sin everywhere?
The Bible clearly teaches that God is morally perfect and holy, that he hates sin. Habakkuk 1:13 says that God is too pure to look on evil. The sinners are not in His presence

Isaiah 59:2... But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you so that he cannot hear."
IamHim

Duncan, OK

#499 Feb 21, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible clearly teaches that God is morally perfect and holy, that he hates sin. Habakkuk 1:13 says that God is too pure to look on evil. The sinners are not in His presence
Isaiah 59:2... But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you so that he cannot hear."
Habbukuk 1:13 says
Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrong. Why then do you tolerate the treacherous? Why are you silent while the wicked swallow up those more righteous than themselves?

If God Almighty cannot look upon sin/evil, then why is the prophet asking God Almighty why He allows evil to reign? Does God Almighty not see whats going on?

Isaiah 59:2 does not mean God Almighty doesnt see evil. But that evil separates men from God. In other words:

Proverbs 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked but he hears the prayer of the righteous.

Proverbs 28:9 If anyone turns a deaf ear to the law, even his prayers are detestable.

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#500 Feb 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on what do you the "apostolic-churches" are gonna believe? EXACTLY AS MATTHEW 1:23 states! That Jesus was born of a virgin. Find a better source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almah
Look at Bethulah and where its used in Isaiah. Each time it means VIRGIN and yet almah (which is young woman to any HEBREW speaking person not an apologetic) is somehow the best word used Isaiah 7:14?
(2) At least once the word is used of a married woman:
Joel 1:8 Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth
For the husband of her youth.

(3) At times the word *bethulah* is used as an epithet for various pagan nations known for their idolatry and immorality:
the virgin daughter of Sidon (Isa 23:12)
the virgin daughter of Babylon (Isa 47:1)
the virgin daughter of Egypt (Jer 46:11)

The same epithet is used for the nation of Israel, at times in the context of their spiritual adultery:
The virgin of Israel (Amos 5:2)
The virgin daughter of Judah (Lam 1:15)
the virgin daughter of Zion (Isa 37:22; Lam 2:13)
the virgin daughter of my people (Jer 14:17)

"The virgin of Israel has done a very horrible thing....
Because My people have forgotten Me,
They have burned incense to worthless idols.
And they have caused themselves to stumble in their ways,
From the ancient paths,
To walk in pathways and not on a highway." (Jer 18:13, 15)

(4) The word *bethulah* is used at times in the literature of the Semitic people as an epithet for their pagan goddesses known for their immoral behavior.

(5) The Jewish Hebrew-English Dictionary by Reuben Alcalay defines the word *bethulah* as "virgin, young woman, girl, maid." Obviously the meaning does not focus exclusively on virginity.

*'Almah* always a Virgin in the Bible

Although the opponents of the virgin birth insist on translating *'Almah* as "maiden" or "young woman" rather than "virgin," the word is never used in the Bible where it necessarily means anything other than virgin.

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#501 Feb 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Habbukuk 1:13 says
Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrong. Why then do you tolerate the treacherous? Why are you silent while the wicked swallow up those more righteous than themselves?
If God Almighty cannot look upon sin/evil, then why is the prophet asking God Almighty why He allows evil to reign? Does God Almighty not see whats going on?
Isaiah 59:2 does not mean God Almighty doesnt see evil. But that evil separates men from God. In other words:
Proverbs 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked but he hears the prayer of the righteous.
Proverbs 28:9 If anyone turns a deaf ear to the law, even his prayers are detestable.
The prophet is entitled to ask a question as to why, but this does not show that God looks. God does not need to look to know what is going on.

Hearing is not seeing.

In Isaiah He is turning his face away. If your face is turned away you can still hear what is happening even if you choose not to see it
IamHim

United States

#502 Feb 21, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
The prophet is entitled to ask a question as to why, but this does not show that God looks. God does not need to look to know what is going on.
Hearing is not seeing.
In Isaiah He is turning his face away. If your face is turned away you can still hear what is happening even if you choose not to see it
Same thing with Satan in heaven right? Or are you going to apply a different parameter?
IamHim

United States

#503 Feb 21, 2013
Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the LORD are everywhere, keeping watch on the wicked and the good.

Wanna take that back?

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#504 Feb 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the LORD are everywhere, keeping watch on the wicked and the good.
Wanna take that back?
No because the writing is allegorical

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#505 Feb 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Same thing with Satan in heaven right? Or are you going to apply a different parameter?
I don't understand what you are suggesting?
Cisco Kid

Jamestown, CA

#506 Feb 21, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
I now see this is socci and not sheila.
Well No, Michael is not Jesus nor is your interpretation ANYTHING other than private interpretation. Which is why both of you cannot explain it using the CONTEXT of the verse and just say "this = this".
Oh yea if Michael is Jesus than what the heck is Jude talking about?
Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James,
Not that Jude calls himself a servant of Jesus. Go later and he mentions Michael:
9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said,“The Lord rebuke you!

Hmm why not say Jesus the archangel? In fact where in the ENTIRE BIBLE is Jesus referred to as an archangel? HES NOT! lol Lastly from Jude:
17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold.

Back to referring to "Michael" as Jesus huh? Is God the author of confusion?
Good call.
Michael the Archangel is not Jesus.
Jesus, God The Son, is higher than the angels.

Those persons, like anti-christian Jehovahs Witnesses, who claim Michael is Jesus are guilty of heresy.

Once again, good call.
IamHim

United States

#507 Feb 21, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
No because the writing is allegorical
How is this "allegorical" but Isaiah 59 and Habakkuk 1:13 arent?
Cisco Kid

Jamestown, CA

#508 Feb 21, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you making this up as you go along?
'Sun'- does symbolize governing powers, but woman is the church of God. The church of God that brought forth the Messiah was Israel with twelve tribes.
12:5 "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up to God, and to his throne."
A: The man child is not referring to Jesus the reason being that the revelation was to do with things that must shortly come to pass. What you are stating had already passed.
This next verse is the 1260 year period of the dark ages & God's Christian church..
12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and three score days."
A: The woman had given birth to a tyrant. The woman represents the Christian Church that Constantine used as a stepping stone to power. The church was split between the Caecilian and Donatus, bishops of Carthage each claiming that the other had apostasised. Gibbon stated that the Donatists were denied the political recognition and were excluded from the civil and religious communion of the state church. The woman now relates to that section of the church that repudiates affiliations with Rome either politically or ecclesiastically
Michael the archangel is Jesus; archangel being chief of the angels, not really a created angelic being rather God.(Dn 12:1)
12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"
Rev 12 study if interested..
A:This warfare took place in the same "heaven" as that of the women. God states that he cannot look upon sin and so it is inconceivable that this war would have taken place in heaven. The will of the father is done in heaven and this is what Jesus taught his apostles
You are preaching a doctrine adverse to the true gospel.
You must have read the warnings about that kind of sin against The Holy Spirit.

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