Do Jews and Christians worship the sa...
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#347 Feb 19, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe in the satan of which you speak. It is all to do with symbolism and what you have posted is to do with the Roman empire and not a literal satan
So you dont believe in the NT right? Cuz if so (and I dont blame you if you do hold this belief) I finally see where you're coming from. But I was under the impression (from earlier in this thread) that you did believe in Jesus and the NT.
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#348 Feb 19, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
...as have you by putting your own interpretation on something that hasn't been stated in the scripture
I havent put any interpretation on anything. I explained it as the text said. In fact in Job 1 and 2 I posted verse after verse to prove my point. Same with Genesis. I asked you to do the same and you seemed to "miss" it.=/ Then you twisted the angels in Jude to being human messengers. This was AFTER you asked for a place where they were called angels instead of sons of God. So it seems like you'll just cover your eyes and ears so you can be considered right. Nothing I can do about that honestly

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#349 Feb 19, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course I dont believe you. Because NOWHERE does the bible say that men are CHAINED IN DARKNESS. It says they die and when they awake again it will be judgement day. Thats plain and simple right? Besides didnt earlier you ask me where the sons of God were called angels? Now that they're called angels you're telling me their messengers. You're right this is a waste of time if you're just gonna twist EVERY scripture that contradicts your belief
The sons of God in Job and in Genesis 6 do not apply to men. Thats just you twisting it. But if thats what you're in it for who am I to tell you otherwise? You'll find out for yourself along with anything else you twist just to continue in your beliefs.
No one spoke of Enoch at least I didnt. And no Job 38 doesnt just "come close" it tells you its angels since it tells you that the sons of God were singing and shouting for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth.
No one said Job saw God and the text doesnt. What it does say is that the sons of God and Satan came to present themselves before God Almighty. God then asks Satan to consider Job His servant. Now why God would ask this to a man and the sons of God who were in prayer (This is what I assume since you say like you do today) only you would know. I just know nothing from the text leads you to believe this. Just your beliefs are molding the text to center around your beliefs. The text should mold your beliefs instead of the latter.
Why would satan be in heaven if you believe that he was a fallen angel? He was kicked out of heaven so why would God allow him back into his presence. Habakkuk 1:13 says that God is too pure to look on evil. Why would he have satan standing in front of him looking at him? The fact is they weren't in heaven
socci

Lawson, MO

#350 Feb 19, 2013
IamHim wrote:
Jude 6
6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day
NOW HOW DOES THIS NOT COMPARE WITH GENESIS 6?
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
The angels left their proper dwelling (heaven) and came down and took wives. Cant get around that can ya?

There certainly is nothing in Jude anywhere about angels mating with humans.

"the angels who did not keep their positions"

These were the fallen angels who rebelled and were cast down to earth. Nothing to do with breeding. Let it go.. Read some older Bible commentary and how they understood this because this is a new teaching, and is not Biblical. Gill or Matthew Henry both understood it just fine.
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#351 Feb 19, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would satan be in heaven if you believe that he was a fallen angel? He was kicked out of heaven so why would God allow him back into his presence. Habakkuk 1:13 says that God is too pure to look on evil. Why would he have satan standing in front of him looking at him? The fact is they weren't in heaven
If you believe in the NT (which again if you dont I ABSOLUTELY see your stance as valid though I still see too much evil and idol worship in the world to not think the devil exists) then you're just blowing hot air. Does not Revelation 12 say that they are in heaven? Or are they talking in some sort of code that the context does not explain the "code" so we apply random interpretations (such as yours for Jude or Job 1,2) to the text? Since when did Satan get kicked out of heaven? Please dont say Genesis 3 because I would tell you that the Garden of Eden is not heaven.
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#352 Feb 19, 2013
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
There certainly is nothing in Jude anywhere about angels mating with humans.
"the angels who did not keep their positions"
These were the fallen angels who rebelled and were cast down to earth. Nothing to do with breeding. Let it go.. Read some older Bible commentary and how they understood this because this is a new teaching, and is not Biblical. Gill or Matthew Henry both understood it just fine.
How were nephilim born in Genesis 6? If you say by the sons of Seth and dauthers of Cain I will ask you how you got this interpretation using THE TEXT so just go ahead and put that answer in your post.

By putting Jude 6 I was showing Sheilla and you that there were fallen angels. Shes still trying to tell me that the angels in Jude were human messengers lol

You expect me to take a commentary seriously? And not a Hebrew commentary but a christian one? Its one thing to take their opinion into account, another to treat their interpretation as fact. Thats something I wont do

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#353 Feb 19, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
I havent put any interpretation on anything. I explained it as the text said. In fact in Job 1 and 2 I posted verse after verse to prove my point. Same with Genesis. I asked you to do the same and you seemed to "miss" it.=/ Then you twisted the angels in Jude to being human messengers. This was AFTER you asked for a place where they were called angels instead of sons of God. So it seems like you'll just cover your eyes and ears so you can be considered right. Nothing I can do about that honestly
No I haven't twisted anything I have taken it in the context it was meant. Scripture need to be interpreted by other scriptures and I have mentioned that the sons of God mentioned in the NT are all referring to humans not angels

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,[even]to them that believe on 1 his name

Galatians 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,they are 1526 the sons of God.

Philippians2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless,the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world
I John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons 5043 of God:...

There are other verses but these are just some which show that humans are sons of God
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#354 Feb 19, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
No I haven't twisted anything I have taken it in the context it was meant. Scripture need to be interpreted by other scriptures and I have mentioned that the sons of God mentioned in the NT are all referring to humans not angels
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,[even]to them that believe on 1 his name
Galatians 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,they are 1526 the sons of God.
Philippians2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless,the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world
I John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons 5043 of God:...
There are other verses but these are just some which show that humans are sons of God
Yes you did which is why you said Jude 6 is talking about human messengers chained in darkness lol. The fact the bible never mentions what these messengers did or who they were lol As far as your terrible twisting job this is the equivalent of what you're doing:

Gen 1:29
Then God said,“I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with SEED in it. They will be yours for food.

This is like me taking SEED that is in all caps and saying that here in Genesis 22:18 that God is talking about herbs that bear seeds instead of Abraham's descendants.

22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice

This is not how you do biblical study. Well maybe it is how YOU do it but this is not how its supposed to done. First and foremost CONTEXT. Thats what helps one understand it. And the fact is that the CONTEXT in Job 1 and 2, Revelation12, Jude 6, and Genesis 6 do not support your stance. Only your words and twist jobs support your stance

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#355 Feb 19, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
I havent put any interpretation on anything. I explained it as the text said. In fact in Job 1 and 2 I posted verse after verse to prove my point. Same with Genesis. I asked you to do the same and you seemed to "miss" it.=/ Then you twisted the angels in Jude to being human messengers. This was AFTER you asked for a place where they were called angels instead of sons of God. So it seems like you'll just cover your eyes and ears so you can be considered right. Nothing I can do about that honestly
It's not a case of being right like I explained to you, you have not proven to me and neither have the scriptures that angels are being spoken about other than in one scripture in which the morning stars are mentioned. All the other scriptures are referring to men
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#356 Feb 19, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a case of being right like I explained to you, you have not proven to me and neither have the scriptures that angels are being spoken about other than in one scripture in which the morning stars are mentioned. All the other scriptures are referring to men
Yea sure keep repeating yourself till your blue in the face lol All the while ignoring Jude 6 saying ANGELS left their HABITATION and AUTHORITY and for that were punished by being CHAINED IN DARKNESS lol But yea this refers to men because you say so right?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#357 Feb 19, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes you did which is why you said Jude 6 is talking about human messengers chained in darkness lol. The fact the bible never mentions what these messengers did or who they were lol As far as your terrible twisting job this is the equivalent of what you're doing:
Gen 1:29
Then God said,“I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with SEED in it. They will be yours for food.
This is like me taking SEED that is in all caps and saying that here in Genesis 22:18 that God is talking about herbs that bear seeds instead of Abraham's descendants.
22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice
This is not how you do biblical study. Well maybe it is how YOU do it but this is not how its supposed to done. First and foremost CONTEXT. Thats what helps one understand it. And the fact is that the CONTEXT in Job 1 and 2, Revelation12, Jude 6, and Genesis 6 do not support your stance. Only your words and twist jobs support your stance
When did God die and make you the expert on how to study the bible. I don't think so!!!!!! There are many other people who do not believe what you are stating.

Another verse in the OT speaking of the children of God.Hosea 1:10

10: Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#358 Feb 19, 2013
And if this is not a case of being right, why did you twist Jude 6 so bad? Like how would anyone (such as who Jude was writing to) understand that it was men and not angels if the word used there is angels? They wouldnt!

How would people come to say that Satan is a man USING THE TEXT IN JOB 1 and 2? THEY WOULDNT! They would have to get the idea that Satan was a literal being that was in God's presence. Which is why God asked Satan "have you considered my servant Job?" Did God ever ask Moses about another servant than send Moses on a task to tempt this servant? No thats not man's job to do that. But hey maybe you have an example of a man doing as Satan did in Job?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#360 Feb 19, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Yea sure keep repeating yourself till your blue in the face lol All the while ignoring Jude 6 saying ANGELS left their HABITATION and AUTHORITY and for that were punished by being CHAINED IN DARKNESS lol But yea this refers to men because you say so right?
The story of Korah, Dathan and Abiram was well known to the Jews (Israel). These men contended with Moses for leadership of the people. The complete story is found in Numbers 16. For now, Numbers 26:9 tells us that these people were well known.'This is that Dathan and Abiram, which were famous in the congregation, who strove against Moses and against Aaron in the company of Korah, when they strove against the LORD'.

Korah was of the tribe of Levi. The Levites were chosen as the tribe from which the men would serve as priests (ministers).(Numbers 16: 8)'And Moses said unto Korah, Hear, I pray you, ye sons of Levi:(9) Seemeth it but a small thing unto you, that the God of Israel hath separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself to do the service of the tabernacle of the LORD, and to stand before the congregation to minister unto them?' Had the word 'ministers' or 'priests' been used in verse 6 instead of the word 'angels,' and the misunderstanding would not have arisen. The 250 followers of Korah (and his two accomplices) were 'princes' in Israel and it is possible that by following these three men, they were looking for an increase in status also. Korah and his accomplices wanted to take over the leadership of the people. Jude’s statement; 'which kept not their first estate' becomes clear. These men were not content with the roles they had been given and they were not content with Moses’ leadership; they wanted change. In so doing they showed greed and envy.
The final part to which the angels did (verse 6) was; "left their own habitation". This was in contrast to them not "keeping their first estate". Their actions resulted in them changing their habitation on earth for the habitation of the grave regarded as 'rooms of darkness' in the bowels of the earth. They had gone from the light of life into darkness of the grave. Instead of being content with the responsible positions they had been given, they wanted more. Recalling the teaching in Paul’s message, we are told; (Philippians 4:11) Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. So this was the problem with Korah, Dathan and Abiram, they were not content with the state they had been given in the service of the Lord.

The punishment resulting in the death of these men was spectacular for the way it was carried out and for its immediacy and severity. It is recorded in Num 26:10; 'they became a sign.' This 'sign' is to show how serious it is for those given positions of responsibility in God’s administration to rebel against Him. This is the important event to which we can reasonably conclude Jude was reminding his readers.

In relation to the expression everlasting chains of darkness it is just allegorical expression, no chains would ever hold a spiritual being.
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#361 Feb 20, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
The story of Korah, Dathan and Abiram was well known to the Jews (Israel). These men contended with Moses for leadership of the people. The complete story is found in Numbers 16. For now, Numbers 26:9 tells us that these people were well known.'This is that Dathan and Abiram, which were famous in the congregation, who strove against Moses and against Aaron in the company of Korah, when they strove against the LORD'.
Korah was of the tribe of Levi. The Levites were chosen as the tribe from which the men would serve as priests (ministers).(Numbers 16: 8)'And Moses said unto Korah, Hear, I pray you, ye sons of Levi:(9) Seemeth it but a small thing unto you, that the God of Israel hath separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself to do the service of the tabernacle of the LORD, and to stand before the congregation to minister unto them?' Had the word 'ministers' or 'priests' been used in verse 6 instead of the word 'angels,' and the misunderstanding would not have arisen. The 250 followers of Korah (and his two accomplices) were 'princes' in Israel and it is possible that by following these three men, they were looking for an increase in status also. Korah and his accomplices wanted to take over the leadership of the people. Jude’s statement; 'which kept not their first estate' becomes clear. These men were not content with the roles they had been given and they were not content with Moses’ leadership; they wanted change. In so doing they showed greed and envy.
The final part to which the angels did (verse 6) was; "left their own habitation". This was in contrast to them not "keeping their first estate". Their actions resulted in them changing their habitation on earth for the habitation of the grave regarded as 'rooms of darkness' in the bowels of the earth. They had gone from the light of life into darkness of the grave. Instead of being content with the responsible positions they had been given, they wanted more. Recalling the teaching in Paul’s message, we are told; (Philippians 4:11) Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. So this was the problem with Korah, Dathan and Abiram, they were not content with the state they had been given in the service of the Lord.
The punishment resulting in the death of these men was spectacular for the way it was carried out and for its immediacy and severity. It is recorded in Num 26:10; 'they became a sign.' This 'sign' is to show how serious it is for those given positions of responsibility in God’s administration to rebel against Him. This is the important event to which we can reasonably conclude Jude was reminding his readers.
In relation to the expression everlasting chains of darkness it is just allegorical expression, no chains would ever hold a spiritual being.
Well this is better than what you said at first. Why did Jude speak as if they were angels?
Sheilaa wrote:
Had the word 'ministers' or 'priests' been used in verse 6 instead of the word 'angels,' and the misunderstanding would not have arisen.
Thats the point. It said angels which clearly (according to you earlier when you asked for a place that said angels and not sons of God) shows that these are not men. Instead of googling (I saw where you got that from) a commentary why couldnt you explain that yourself?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#362 Feb 20, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
Well this is better than what you said at first. Why did Jude speak as if they were angels?
<quoted text>
Thats the point. It said angels which clearly (according to you earlier when you asked for a place that said angels and not sons of God) shows that these are not men. Instead of googling (I saw where you got that from) a commentary why couldnt you explain that yourself?
That's how you interpreted it not me. I stated that I thought that there was only one or two verses out of all the scriptures that used the term sons of God as being about angels. You just don't listen and you presume that you are the only one who has the correct interpretation. I am not a right person but you certainly give the impression that that is what you are. You also have the annoying habit of stating LOL after your comments which is something only a young kid would do
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#363 Feb 20, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
That's how you interpreted it not me. I stated that I thought that there was only one or two verses out of all the scriptures that used the term sons of God as being about angels. You just don't listen and you presume that you are the only one who has the correct interpretation. I am not a right person but you certainly give the impression that that is what you are. You also have the annoying habit of stating LOL after your comments which is something only a young kid would do
Nope. Theres more than 2 places that use sons of God as angels. I've shown you Job 1 and 2. I've shown you Job 38:7. I've shown you Psalm 82:1-6. Another one is Psalm 89:6. Another one is Psalm 29:1.

No Im not acting as if everyone else is wrong but me. What I am doing is acting as if YOU ARE wrong because you twist scripture to fit your beliefs. Such as you did with Jude twice. Such as you did with Job 1 and 2. Nothing in Jude leads us to believe that it is speaking of Moses' time with the people that were swallowed by the earth. Its just another interpretation that ignores the words the texts uses (such as angels) and the context the word uses (such as leaving their habitation which is where someone lives and leaving their place of authority such as the responsibilities the angels had in heaven). Thats how Im acting. If someone came and said "I dont believe in the NT because it contradicts the OT in certain places thus I do not believe in Satan as told by the NT" then I would understand why they do not believe in fallen angels. You on the otherhand believe in Jesus. Yet ignore when he was tempted by Satan and when he said that the pharisees' father was the devil who was a murderer in the beginning. You ignore in Revelation the devil being cast out of heaven with 1/3 of angels after a war with michael and coming on earth to deceive. You ignore Jude saying that angels left their habitation and would be judged for it. And more that Im forgetting at the moment. So yes Im acting as if YOU are wrong. Im not saying no one in the world has it right but me. Because there are others that clearly see what the text in the bible states. That there are angels called sons of God and that some angels left heaven and came to earth and acted as men. That explains the mythologies such as Greek gods and Roman gods that intermingled with men.
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#364 Feb 20, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
When did God die and make you the expert on how to study the bible. I don't think so!!!!!! There are many other people who do not believe what you are stating.
Another verse in the OT speaking of the children of God.Hosea 1:10
10: Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
God doesnt die lol

I dont care if they believe what I state or not. When the trouble comes and they see their neighbors acting abnormally evil then they will question their beliefs that only humans walk the earth. I see evil on tv I see people doing evil across the world. And I dont mean stealing some money from someone but EXTREME ACTS such as eating humans or torturing them. These are not normal acts.

What does Hosea 1:10 prove about Genesis 6:2 or Job 1 and 2 etc...? Nothing! Because what you're doing here is exactly what I exemplified in what you quoted in this post. I cannot go to Genesis 1:29 read it saying "seed" their and then go to Genesis 22:18 and assume that the "seed" used their is not talking about the descendants of Abraham, but the seed bearing plant that Abraham is growing in his yard. That is exactly what you're trying to do by showing me places where men are referred to as sons of God Almighty.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#365 Feb 20, 2013
IamHim wrote:
You can post till you're blue in the face but you will never convince me that the majority of the scriptures mentioning the sons of God are not referring to men/messengers. Since when did you start writing for "us" and not just yourself. The whole idea of angels mixing with humans is a throw back. I don't believe that Greek and Roman Gods mixed with men or are you saying that they were homosexuals? Mythologies are just that, myths with no basis of truth. In relation to Jude it is only your opinion many others agree with what I put forth including other Christan denominations such as the Christadelphians (and no I am not a Christadelphian). I see you have not addressed the majority of the scriptures that clearly show that sons of men mean humans. The bible is a continous revelation and the old compliments the new and that is why Jesus and the apostles constantly referred to the old testament.

Some more examples of the sons of God being men:

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. The sons of God are true believers.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,[even] to them that believe on his name:

God gave permission for "satan" to do various things to him, although he was limited in that he could not take Job's life. "So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD."(1:12)(again no mention of heaven - the only place we know "satan" has been is "going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." (1:7) From first to last, it is patently clear that in the account of Job, God is responsible for all things, good and bad and that Job's trials were from God, not "satan". The true identity of the adversary is not given, yet we see that his unbelief in the purity of Job's faith was the reason God took the steps he did. It is also clear that this "satan" became the tool through which God afflicted Job. He was no more an angel than I.

Psalm 82 is talking about unjust judges. Judges are called elohim "gods" in verse 6


In relation to Revelation I will address that tomorrow as it is now 2230. I don't believe you understand Revelation as is shown by your comments about satan and the 1/3 of the angels.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#366 Feb 20, 2013
IamHim wrote:
<quoted text>
God doesnt die lol
I dont care if they believe what I state or not. When the trouble comes and they see their neighbors acting abnormally evil then they will question their beliefs that only humans walk the earth. I see evil on tv I see people doing evil across the world. And I dont mean stealing some money from someone but EXTREME ACTS such as eating humans or torturing them. These are not normal acts.
What does Hosea 1:10 prove about Genesis 6:2 or Job 1 and 2 etc...? Nothing! Because what you're doing here is exactly what I exemplified in what you quoted in this post. I cannot go to Genesis 1:29 read it saying "seed" their and then go to Genesis 22:18 and assume that the "seed" used their is not talking about the descendants of Abraham, but the seed bearing plant that Abraham is growing in his yard. That is exactly what you're trying to do by showing me places where men are referred to as sons of God Almighty.
Then listen to what scripture says in relation to the evilness of man. Whether you personally don't believe in the evilness of man means nada because mankind is evil from birth. I worked in a men's prison for a year and I believe that man is capable of anything he doesn't need an excuse or someone to blame his own actions on

All evil comes from within. The fact that you try to deflect and deny that humans have the capacity to do horrendous things is not only ridiculous but it denies what scripture teaches

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Jeeimiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?
IamHim

Oklahoma City, OK

#367 Feb 20, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Then listen to what scripture says in relation to the evilness of man. Whether you personally don't believe in the evilness of man means nada because mankind is evil from birth. I worked in a men's prison for a year and I believe that man is capable of anything he doesn't need an excuse or someone to blame his own actions on
All evil comes from within. The fact that you try to deflect and deny that humans have the capacity to do horrendous things is not only ridiculous but it denies what scripture teaches
Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Jeeimiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?
Was Abraham evil? Noah? Job? Moses?

So nope man may CHOOSE to be evil. But they are not evil from birth if AT THE LEAST these men were not considered evil by God Almighty. And thats the judge. Not you not me.

Satan's real lol. Jesus made that clear. Revelation made that clear. And I dont even fully believe in those scriptures (the NT) but I still see who people choose to worship over God Almighty. Listen to the music. Watch tv. Watch the movies. And what you'll see is people giving worship to someone that is not God Almighty. SATAN.

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