Jesus is a Prophet, not God

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#134 Oct 8, 2012
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody wrote about any events in the Bible 'when they happened'.
You were not there you don't have a clue what happened more than 61 years ago before you were born. Keep your idiotic opinions to yourself.

Jazybird58

“Reality bites”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#135 Oct 9, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for your irrelevant opinion. What you think the Bible does or does not mention has almost as much validity as the scribblings on a public restroom wall.
Really? Find me the scripture, where God states, that he, jesus and the holy ghost are one. Face it the trinity doctrine is a christian mystery. I could have said a load of bull shiet, but hey I didn't want to offend you.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#136 Oct 9, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
You were not there you don't have a clue what happened more than 61 years ago before you were born. Keep your idiotic opinions to yourself.
If you are, as you say, as qualified as most pastors and priests you've ever met, there are three possibilities:

1) You know I have a clue.
2) You're full of manure.
3) All of the above.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#137 Oct 9, 2012
Jazybird58 wrote:
<quoted text>Really? Find me the scripture, where God states, that he, jesus and the holy ghost are one. Face it the trinity doctrine is a christian mystery. I could have said a load of bull shiet, but hey I didn't want to offend you.
The Trinity doctrine is no more a mystery than God is. The day you don't want to offend I will be in CICU. Once again I don't care what you, or any other atheist, don't think is in the Bible. There is more than one verse which states that the Father and Jesus are one. And no I don't give rat's how you understand those vss. There are vss. which equate the Holy Spirit with God. A good exegesis of scripture on the the Trinity is The Trinity: Issues and Evidence by Robert Morey. He cites IIRC 349 scripture. I have no interest in reinventing the wheel for every atheist who gets his/her draws in a twist.

Jazybird58

“Reality bites”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#138 Oct 9, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
The Trinity doctrine is no more a mystery than God is. The day you don't want to offend I will be in CICU. Once again I don't care what you, or any other atheist, don't think is in the Bible. There is more than one verse which states that the Father and Jesus are one. And no I don't give rat's how you understand those vss. There are vss. which equate the Holy Spirit with God. A good exegesis of scripture on the the Trinity is The Trinity: Issues and Evidence by Robert Morey. He cites IIRC 349 scripture. I have no interest in reinventing the wheel for every atheist who gets his/her draws in a twist.
.

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons (Greek: &#8017;&#960;&#959 ;&#963;&#964;&#940 ;&#963;&#949;&#953 ;&#962;):[1] the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct yet coexist in unity, and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial (Greek: &#8001;&#956;&#959 ;&#959;&#973;&#963 ;&#953;&#959;&#953 ;). Put another way, the three persons of the Trinity are of one being (Greek: &#959;&#8016;&#963 ;&#943;&#945;).[2] The Trinity is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith.[3]

According to this doctrine, there is only one God in three persons. Each person is God, whole and entire. They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: as the Fourth Lateran Council declared, "it is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds". While distinct in their relations with one another, they are one in all else. The whole work of creation and grace is a single operation common to all three divine persons, who at the same time operate according to their unique properties, so that all things are from the Father, through the Son and in the Holy Spirit.[3]

Trinitarianism (one deity in three persons) contrasts with non-Trinitarian positions which include Binitarianism (one deity in two persons, or two deities), Unitarianism (one deity in one person, analogous to Jewish interpretation of the Shema and Muslim belief in Tawhid), the Oneness Pentecostal or Modalist belief (one deity manifested in three separate aspects), and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' polytheistic or henotheistic view (three gods in three persons) that the Godhead is a council of three deities, united in will but distinct in both essence and person.[4]

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#139 Oct 9, 2012
I have looked around here a little bit and have noticed this is all you people do huh? Religion has consumed your entire life! You are wasting the only life you have because you think your better than everyone else! Everyone is going to burn in hell and your going to heaven! There is no such thing as heaven or hell. Most religions copied most core concepts from previous religions. The ancient religions for the most part were a reward only. The reward / punishment evolved to give it some more teeth. This is why you can find no trace of hell in the first 2/3 of the old testament. You refuse to stop and let rational logical thought be your guide as you read the bible that your religion is based on. If you did read the bible it would lead you to the truth. You would study the origins of religion and it would start to make sense. If your like me you probably get tired of defending a religion that seems like nonsense. Each religion was made for a specific purpose that was relevant at the time it was created.

One of you bragged that the ancient religions that predate Christianity are no longer around. There are lots of reasons for this. How about a religion that requires human sacrifice to the point the followers become extinct. Christianity is slowly dying! Islam is the fastest growing religion in the united states not that its a good thing but all religions will die eventually. You could go back to your Christian origins and give Christianity a much needed boost. Christian Crusades, Inquisition's, burning non believers alive at the stake, go house by house burning competing holy books, taking their gold & valuables, killing man/woman/child/infant/animals sparing no living thing except any virgins to have sex with of course! Christianity would be right back on top again!

You must understand the purpose of religion before you can ever break free from it. Religion is the most profitable business in the world. Religion and war equals power, control and immeasurable wealth. The pope is the richest man on the face of the earth yet he knows that his faith is in the money not God! This is why he rides around in a multi-million dollar limousine with 4 inch thick bullet proof glass because God can't protect him but the money can. I admire Mother Teresa because she had the courage to come forward before she died to say that she was agnostic and she didn't believe the god of religion was real. This didn't stop her from devoting her entire life to good even though everyone thought she did it for God till her last days on earth.
Jesus - is - Muslim

Saudi Arabia

#140 Oct 9, 2012
"In the days of His flesh, He (Jesus) offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety"
[Hebrews 5:7]

According to the distorted Christianity:

So God (Jesus) was praying with loud crying and tears to Himself asking Himself to save Himself from death!!

Then He heard the loud crying of Himself and accepted to answer Himself and to save Himself!!

No sensible person will even try desperately to defend such nonsense hallucination..unless he/she has No more brain!!!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#141 Oct 9, 2012
Since I don't have unlimited time like some of you that are hell bent on keeping the religion machine going for as long as possible for some unknown reason? I have better things to do with my life because this is the only one we will ever get. What is the reason by the way? Religion is man made and not natural. If you didn't spread it by teaching it to innocent children like Santa Clause for a few generations it would be over quick and painless. If nobody was subjected to any religion until adulthood it would be game over! What would a world with no religion be like? What would world peace feel like?

Why is it taking so long to get rid of all these man made religions? There are lots of reasons but one important reason is there is no money in it. No one is going to pay me for spending countless hours helping people find the truth that religion is man made so I can't do it! The money is with religion. Take just one female Christian like Joyce Myers who makes millions of righteous dollars every year preaching from a bible that because it was written by sexist men says she can't even speak in church! She must keep her mouth shut and ask her husband at home if she wants to know something.

Well this can just go on forever so boys and girls don't give up! Sit down with your holy book and read every word! Study the origins and the original purpose of religion and you will find the truth! It will take along time but it is worth doing! You will find yourself asking things like who created God? If god just always existed than why couldn't the universe just always exist in some form or another? Again don't complicate the process by debating the existence of anyone's God. Just concentrate on man made religion!

When you read the very fist page of Genesis you will know that the man that wrote the creation story had no idea what he was talking about! Eve was cloned from adam with the same DNA? They didn't know the correct order of creation or that the sun was millions of years older than earth? They thought the earth was at the center of the universe sitting on pillars flat as can be with everything revolving around it? You find it totally impossible that 100 million animals fit on a small hand built ark and the flood ark myth was copied from gilgamesh 700 years before Noah? The entire world population came from Noah's 3 sons (one son white as snow the other black as the night, etc), you find that Noah's black son and every descendant were doomed to a life of slavery because he accidentally saw Noah after he got drunk and passed out naked, you find 55 generations from abraham to Jesus in Luke 3 all listed by name but then in Matthew 1 you find 42 generations listed by name, you wonder why on earth Jesus the creator of the universe would need to disappear for 10-12 years to seek the truth? Was it because he was a pupil of the Nalanda University of Buddhist and went to Israel to teach? You find Jesus was a terrible match to Jewish Messianic prophecy and was never suppose to be a Messiah at all! That wasn't the purpose! You wonder if someone wanted to write a new religion and he was the best available at the time?

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#142 Oct 9, 2012
Jesus - is - Muslim wrote:
"In the days of His flesh, He (Jesus) offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety"
[Hebrews 5:7]
According to the distorted Christianity:
So God (Jesus) was praying with loud crying and tears to Himself asking Himself to save Himself from death!!
Then He heard the loud crying of Himself and accepted to answer Himself and to save Himself!!
No sensible person will even try desperately to defend such nonsense hallucination..unless he/she has No more brain!!!
Go away.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#143 Oct 9, 2012
You finally get to 16 obvious failed prophecies in regard to the Second Coming of Christ and the end of the world, which was supposed to take place in the First Century Apostles’ lifetime! Below Jesus clearly predicts that his Second Coming will be during the lifetimes of the First Century Christians who lived in their time.

"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

Jesus clearly predicted in those two verses above that the apostles standing with him would see his second coming in their lifetimes. It's clear and simple, nothing allegorical or symbolical. There are a dozen more that all say the same thing just worded differently. People have tried to predict the second coming for 2000 years when logical rational thought should of smacked you in the face when you read the 16 failed prophecies! Instead Christians say nobody knows when it will come because the bible was wrong and missed it by a few thousand years! LOL

Good lord this can just go on forever but again nobody is paying me and their is no money in the truth so it must end! It is impossible for me or anyone to explain everything they have found through years of studying religion and each person should discover the truth on their own! I pray each and everyone of you find the truth one day before you waste your entire life on man made religions! God bless you all in an agnostic kind of way of course!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#144 Oct 9, 2012
Jesus - is - Muslim wrote:
"In the days of His flesh, He (Jesus) offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety"
[Hebrews 5:7]
According to the distorted Christianity:
So God (Jesus) was praying with loud crying and tears to Himself asking Himself to save Himself from death!!
Then He heard the loud crying of Himself and accepted to answer Himself and to save Himself!!
No sensible person will even try desperately to defend such nonsense hallucination..unless he/she has No more brain!!!
Amen brother! God created men and women with original sin. Then a talking snake convinced eve who was actually steve because the genius that dreamed up this nonsense didn't know about DNA to eat an apple. This was so bad the only way to fix this mess was to wait thousands of years and impregnate a virgin woman with himself as her child, so that he could be born. Once alive, he killed himself as a sacrifice to himself - to save you from the sin he originally condemned you to. Confused? Don't be, hang in there Apologetics can't keep the Christ myth going much longer. Islam has a few problems also even if you are the fastest growing religion in the US. LOL

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#145 Oct 9, 2012
Jesus - is - Muslim wrote:
"In the days of His flesh, He (Jesus) offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety"
[Hebrews 5:7]
According to the distorted Christianity:
So God (Jesus) was praying with loud crying and tears to Himself asking Himself to save Himself from death!!
Then He heard the loud crying of Himself and accepted to answer Himself and to save Himself!!
No sensible person will even try desperately to defend such nonsense hallucination..unless he/she has No more brain!!!
The last sentence highlights your error. God is not a person. God is not limited to what a person can do or be.

Jesus did not ask the Father to save him. He prayed if it is your will let this trial pass from me but nevertheless not my, human,will but your will be done. God in His entirety is not a human person limited in time and space.

When Solomon built a temple for God he prayed, "the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him?"

2Ch 2:5 And the house which I build is great: for great is our God above all gods.
6 But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?

YHWH gave David the location and the exact dimensions of the temple and said that would be his temple forever. Why did a different people build a different building on that site to a god with a different name?

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#146 Oct 9, 2012
ALL RELIGIONS R MANMADE wrote:
***"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Matthew 16:28)

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)

Jesus clearly predicted in those two verses above that the apostles standing with him would see his second coming in their lifetimes. It's clear and simple, nothing allegorical or symbolical. There are a dozen more that all say the same thing just worded differently. People have tried to predict the second coming for 2000 years when logical rational thought should of smacked you in the face when you read the 16 failed prophecies! Instead Christians say nobody knows when it will come because the bible was wrong and missed it by a few thousand years! LOL ***
There are NO.NONE, ZERO failed propehecies in the NT! The "kingdom of God" does NOT equal the second coming! FYI atheists and other Bible haters who can't read Greek or Hebrew do not dictate what the scriptures mean.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#147 Oct 9, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
There are NO.NONE, ZERO failed propehecies in the NT! The "kingdom of God" does NOT equal the second coming! FYI atheists and other Bible haters who can't read Greek or Hebrew do not dictate what the scriptures mean.
Alan you my friend are the perfect example of a delusional victim of religion and there is no hope for you! I'm not an atheist or a bible hater! LOL I use to be one of the very elite top shelf Christians. A born again Christian complete with the warm fuzzy saved feeling. I thought alot of my fellow Christians were going to hell because they weren't born again! I was lucky enough to break free from the religion my family forced on me as a child unlike most others. I of coarse as a good Christian would always laugh and say you weren't a REAL Christian if you lost your faith. I bet you say Hitler wasn't a REAL Christian either huh? He claimed to be a Christian and said he was doing Gods work driven by scripture! He even put religious text on the planes and uniforms. He wasn't just killing Jews, he was killing atheists and any non Christians.

You are one of the very few that know how to correctly interpret the bible? Maybe that's why you ended up with 40,000 denominations of Christians? Maybe that's why Christianity is in decline and Islam is growing, they don't have 40,000 denominations all claiming to be right! With everything I posted you picked out Jesus failed prophecy? You say your interpretation of up = dn and left = right is correct? I'm sure your right and they went to heaven before they died! LOL When I was a Christian I never had an answer for things like the Ark myth so I just ignored it. I wasn't as smart as you though so tell me how did Noah fit 100 million animals on the Ark? Where did Noah find a polar bear in the desert? LOL Since you can pray to God and he can answer you why don't you ask him then get back to us OK? If you can answer this I've got some hard questions for you OK?

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#148 Oct 10, 2012
ALL RELIGIONS R MANMADE wrote:
<quoted text> Alan you my friend are the perfect example of a delusional victim of religion and there is no hope for you! I'm not an atheist or a bible hater! LOL I use to be one of the very elite top shelf Christians. A born again Christian complete with the warm fuzzy saved feeling. I thought alot of my fellow Christians were going to hell because they weren't born again! I was lucky enough to break free from the religion my family forced on me as a child unlike most others. I of coarse as a good Christian would always laugh and say you weren't a REAL Christian if you lost your faith. I bet you say Hitler wasn't a REAL Christian either huh? He claimed to be a Christian and said he was doing Gods work driven by scripture! He even put religious text on the planes and uniforms. He wasn't just killing Jews, he was killing atheists and any non Christians.
You are one of the very few that know how to correctly interpret the bible? Maybe that's why you ended up with 40,000 denominations of Christians? Maybe that's why Christianity is in decline and Islam is growing, they don't have 40,000 denominations all claiming to be right! With everything I posted you picked out Jesus failed prophecy? You say your interpretation of up = dn and left = right is correct? I'm sure your right and they went to heaven before they died! LOL When I was a Christian I never had an answer for things like the Ark myth so I just ignored it. I wasn't as smart as you though so tell me how did Noah fit 100 million animals on the Ark? Where did Noah find a polar bear in the desert? LOL Since you can pray to God and he can answer you why don't you ask him then get back to us OK? If you can answer this I've got some hard questions for you OK?
Bulk wrap! You told me what I had already thought about you, in this sentence. "I was lucky enough to break free from the religion my family forced on me as a child unlike most others." You are mad at mommy and daddy becasue they made you go to church when you wanted to stay home and play games and smoke dope. So now you are trying to get even with them by attacking Christianity. Good luck with that. I will not be a part of your emotional baggage. If you want answers to these "burning" questions get off your lazy backside and research them yourself. About Hitler claiming to have been a Christian was no more meaningful that you doing it.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#149 Oct 10, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
There are NO.NONE, ZERO failed propehecies in the NT! The "kingdom of God" does NOT equal the second coming!.
The second coming is a Christian invention that was made solely to excuse Jesus failing the Messianic prophecies.

The Messiah is supposed to do X, Y, and Z. Why didn't Jesus do any of them?
"Uh...he will when he comes back later."

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#150 Oct 10, 2012
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
The second coming is a Christian invention that was made solely to excuse Jesus failing the Messianic prophecies.
The Messiah is supposed to do X, Y, and Z. Why didn't Jesus do any of them?
"Uh...he will when he comes back later."
One problem with your "explanatiion" in the OT there were references to the "Suffering Servant Messiah" and the "Conquering King Messiah" so the Jewish scholars to explain that difference decided that there were two Messiahs, the Messiah Son of David and the Messiah Son of Joseph. Never mid that the scripture always tals of "The King Messiah" singular not plural.

Jewish Encyclopedia - Messiah

But in xxxiv. 23 et seq., xxxvii. 24 et seq., which passages date from exilic times, there is an entirely new feature—the prophecy that David will be the king of the future state. As after the decline of the Holy Roman Empire the saga arose of the return of the emperor-hero Barbarossa, so, after the fall of the nation, the Jews of the Exile dreamed of the coming of a second David, who would reestablish them as a glorious nation. So Ezekiel lays emphasis on the fact that the future Israel is to be a united nation as it was under David of old. The hope in the return of David is expressed also in the spurious passage mentioned above (Jer. xxx. 9) and in the gloss to Hos. iii. 5 ("and David their king"), and ismet with sporadically also in Neo-Hebraic apocalyptic literature (see below).

Messiah ben Joseph.

Finally, there must be mentioned a Messianic figure peculiar to the rabbinical apocalyptic literature—that of Messiah ben Joseph. The earliest mention of him is in Suk. 52a, b, where three statements occur in regard to him, for the first of which R. Dosa (c. 250) is given as authority. In the last of these statements only his name is mentioned, but the first two speak of the fate which he is to meet, namely, to fall in battle (as if alluding to a well-known tradition). Details about him are not found until much later, but he has an established place in the apocalypses of later centuries and in the midrash literature—in Saadia's description of the future ("Emunot we-De'ot," ch. viii.) and in that of Hai Gaon ("&#7788;a'am Ze&#7731;enim," p. 59). According to these, Messiah b. Joseph will appear prior to the coming of Messiah b. David; he will gather the children of Israel around him, march to Jerusalem, and there, after overcoming the hostile powers, reestablish the Temple-worship and set up his own dominion. Thereupon Armilus, according to one group of sources, or Gog and Magog, according to the other, will appear with their hosts before Jerusalem, wage war against Messiah b. Joseph, and slay him. His corpse, according to one group, will lie unburied in the streets of Jerusalem; according to theother, it will be hidden by the angels with the bodies of the Patriarchs, until Messiah b. David comes and resurrects him (comp. Jew. Encyc. i. 682, 684 [§§ 8 and 13]; comp. also Midr. Wayosha' and Agadat ha-Mashia&#7717; in Jellinek, "B. H." i. 55 et seq., iii. 141 et seq.).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10...

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#151 Oct 10, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
One problem with your "explanatiion" in the OT there were references to the "Suffering Servant Messiah" and the "Conquering King Messiah" so the Jewish scholars to explain that difference decided that there were two Messiahs, the Messiah Son of David and the Messiah Son of Joseph. Never mid that the scripture always tals of "The King Messiah" singular not plural.
Jesus doesn't fit either one, so what does it matter how many Messiahs were part of Judaism?

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#152 Oct 10, 2012
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus doesn't fit either one, so what does it matter how many Messiahs were part of Judaism?
When one of your meaningless arguments gets blown away you just vomit out another one. I don't think I saw any Biblical support for this new argument.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#153 Oct 10, 2012
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text>
When one of your meaningless arguments gets blown away you just vomit out another one. I don't think I saw any Biblical support for this new argument.
How is it a meaningless argument to point out that Jesus is a TOTAL FAILURE as the messiah?

It's your argument "well, if you magically combine these two messiahs into one, then the second one could represent a second visit by the first guy" that is meaningless because Jesus doesn't fit either one.

The Messiah was supposed to do X, Y, and Z. Jesus didn't. End of story. Now you just have to make excuses for him.

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