John 8:58

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“Become Love!”

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John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

This is only one of the most misunderstood and misinterpreted verses in the bible. People, with their agendas, use this to prove that our anointed Savior is the same "I AM" of Exodus 3:14. This says, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." Now, before I continue with John 8:58, to explain what our anointed Savior meant, I'd like to share with you scriptures that uses this same language. Following is an excerpt from a letter Paul wrote to the church at Corinth.

1Corinthians 15:9-10 For ~I am~ the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God ~I am what I am~: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Now, how many of us will say, now, that Paul was referring to himself as the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14? Not only did Paul use the phrase "I am" (in verse 9), but he also used the phrase "I am what I am" (in verse 10). Is Paul, now, the "I AM" that spoke with Moses?

This conversation began early that morning, when the scribes and Pharisees brought a woman unto him, having been caught in the very act of adultery (John 8:3). By wisdom, our Lord saved her. By verses 31-33, we can read what also provoked such a murderous spirit in the Jews. Our Lord said, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." The Jews' response exposes the reason for the actions we read at verse 59. They replied, "We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?" They also boasted, "Abraham is our father."

To understand the controversy, we have to understand, more than anything else, the importance of lineage to the Jews with, especially, Abraham. John warned them, "And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Abraham is, to say the least, not only the progenitor of the nation of Israel, but also the father of the covenant. In the mind of the Jew, without Abraham, there'd be no nation, nor covenant. Who can be greater except "God" Himself? Abraham was to the Jew as our Lord is to us.

The Jews had just called our Lord a demon-possessed Samaritan. Of course, our Lord defended himself. What started this controversy, though, begins more-so at verse 51. He declared, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." The Jews then replied, "Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?" Now, it's our Lord's statement that caused such confusion among the Jews. He said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." The Jews asked, "Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?" He declared unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Question: Did our Lord reveal an identity, or a reference to time?
Answer: Both.

The fact is, he revealed who he was, as the laws, prophecies, and psalms, speak of a coming Messiah that existed before the foundation of the world. The Messiah is not only the offspring of Abraham, but the root. Nevertheless, his statement does not mean he's the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14. His saying "I am" was only to express that he existed "Before Abraham was." It's us that exceeds the definition of what he meant. And because of this, we promote falsehood.

Thank you for your time and consideration.
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Brother Lee Love wrote:
John 8:58 Nevertheless, his statement does not mean he's the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14. His saying "I am" was only to express that he existed "Before Abraham was." It's us that exceeds the definition of what he meant. And because of this, we promote falsehood.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
I disagree, the Jews would not have attempted to stone him unless they understood the declaration a blasphemy, He was asserting his deity, nothing less.
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Jesus is the I AM of exodus 3:14

Seven times in the Gospel of John Jesus claims to be the great “I am”(4:26; 6:20; 8:24, 28, 58; 13:19; 18:5). In every one of these contexts the “I am” keeps reinforcing the deity of Jesus. He is stating His claim to be God.

Jesus said,“I am the Light of the world”(8:12; 9:5). He healed a blind man groping in darkness and then opened his spiritual eyes so he could see the great I AM and worship Him. Are you wandering around in a spiritual darkness following one blind religious guide after another? Jesus is the only light you need to guide you into God’s holy presence. All other “lights” are evil in nature and will only lead you into eternal darkness.

Jesus said that He is the only door into God’s presence. He said,“I am the Door”(10:7, 9). All other doors lead down the wrong path and to eternal destruction. Jesus is the entrance into eternal life (Acts 4:12).

Jesus said,“I am the Good Shepherd”(10:11, 14). Every individual is like a wandering, stray lost lamb caught in the briars of sin. There are a lot of false shepherds herding up stray sheep to take to slaughter. Jesus is the only Good Shepherd. He will take you by the hand and led you into the Father’s presence and give you His nourishment.

Jesus conquered death. Not only did He say,“I am the resurrection and life”(11:25-26), but He rose from the dead to prove it. In fact, this is the great evidence that Jesus Christ is the great I AM THAT I AM. He died, was buried, and three days later rose from the dead. Because He is alive, He can give the resurrection life. This is our hope in the face of death. Jesus said,“I am the way, the truth and the life”(14:6). Only God can claim that. Furthermore, He sustains our spiritual life because He is the True Vine, the only way, and the giver of life. Jesus said,“I am the True Vine”(15:1, 5).

http://www.abideinchrist.com/selah/mar19.html

“Become Love!”

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comment wrote:
I disagree, the Jews would not have attempted to stone him unless they understood the declaration a blasphemy, He was asserting his deity, nothing less.
I repeat...

1Corinthians 15:9-10 For ~I am~ the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God ~I am what I am~: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Now, how many of us will say that Paul was referring to himself as the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14? Not only did Paul use the phrase "I am" (in verse 9), but he also used the phrase "I am what I am" (in verse 10). Is Paul, now, the "I AM" that spoke with Moses?
__________

Consider the following, please and if you will.

Our anointed Savior asked the scribes, elders, and chief priests, whether they believed John's baptism was from heaven, or of men? They replied, "If we shall say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet."

These scribes, elders, and chief priests feared being stoned, and not because they called themselves "I AM," right? Paul was stoned. Stephen was stoned. The people thought to stone David. Did either of these men call themselves "I AM?"

Jesus cried, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee..."

Did these that were sent ever proclaim to be "I AM?" But, they were stoned, right?

Returning to our anointed Savior's question about John and the response of the scribes, elders, and chief priests, were these not in fear of being stoned simply for not acknowledging John as a prophet? What if one were to make themselves greater than the father of the nation of Israel? the father of the covenant? the father of the prophets?

And last but not least, what's so different from the statement made by our anointed Savior and that made by Paul?

I pray you consider these things. And if it be possible, I would appreciate if you could provide evidence to your assertions.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Until next time...
Whatever

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Evidently you missed this verse among many others.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

“Become Love!”

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Native wrote:
Jesus is the I AM of exodus 3:14
Seven times in the Gospel of John Jesus claims to be the great “I am”(4:26; 6:20; 8:24, 28, 58; 13:19; 18:5). In every one of these contexts the “I am” keeps reinforcing the deity of Jesus. He is stating His claim to be God.
Jesus said,“I am the Light of the world”(8:12; 9:5). He healed a blind man groping in darkness and then opened his spiritual eyes so he could see the great I AM and worship Him. Are you wandering around in a spiritual darkness following one blind religious guide after another? Jesus is the only light you need to guide you into God’s holy presence. All other “lights” are evil in nature and will only lead you into eternal darkness.
Jesus said that He is the only door into God’s presence. He said,“I am the Door”(10:7, 9). All other doors lead down the wrong path and to eternal destruction. Jesus is the entrance into eternal life (Acts 4:12).
Jesus said,“I am the Good Shepherd”(10:11, 14). Every individual is like a wandering, stray lost lamb caught in the briars of sin. There are a lot of false shepherds herding up stray sheep to take to slaughter. Jesus is the only Good Shepherd. He will take you by the hand and led you into the Father’s presence and give you His nourishment.
Jesus conquered death. Not only did He say,“I am the resurrection and life”(11:25-26), but He rose from the dead to prove it. In fact, this is the great evidence that Jesus Christ is the great I AM THAT I AM. He died, was buried, and three days later rose from the dead. Because He is alive, He can give the resurrection life. This is our hope in the face of death. Jesus said,“I am the way, the truth and the life”(14:6). Only God can claim that. Furthermore, He sustains our spiritual life because He is the True Vine, the only way, and the giver of life. Jesus said,“I am the True Vine”(15:1, 5).
http://www.abideinchrist.com/selah/mar19.html
It's good to see you Native.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm afraid I can't agree. I couldn't even begin to tell you how many times the terms "I am" are used throughout the bible by everyone but our anointed Savior and Father "God," and not in reference to "God," either. The best example I know of is that which I quoted, 1Corinthians 15:9-10. In these verses, Paul uses both, the terms "I am" and "I am what I am."

Now, considering all that you posted, I offer you the following.

John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath ~given~ all things into his hand.

John 5:26-27 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he ~given~ to the Son to have life in himself; And hath ~given~ him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had ~given~ all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

John 17:2 As thou hast ~given~ him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast ~given~ him.

John 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast ~given~ me are of thee.

John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast ~given~ me; for they are thine.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast ~given~ me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou hast ~gavest~ me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast ~given~ me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast ~given~ me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

In conclusion, I don't deny that our anointed Savior is "God." Scriptures attest to that. However, I also don't ignore when he called Father "my God, and your God (John 20:17)." Nor do I ignore when scriptures declare that Father is "God of gods (Deuteronomy 10:17)."

“Keep your eyes on Israel”

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There are some 200 names and titles of Christ found in the Bible and "I Am" is only one of them that declare Jesus is God.

I Am:(John 8:58, with Exodus 3:14)– When Jesus ascribed to Himself this title, the Jews tried to stone Him for blasphemy. They understood that He was declaring Himself to be the eternal God, the unchanging Jehovah of the Old Testament.

For those who are truly interested in seeing the evidence That God is Triune and that Jesus is God....Please wat5ch these 5 links each 1/2 hour long.

I believe you really will be blessed if you are a Christian and want to understand the Trinity or a seeker who wants to know ind investigate the truth for themselves.

The first Two are from the series: The Oneness of God

http://www.dod.org/Products/The-Oneness-of-Go...

and

http://www.dod.org/Products/DOD1850.aspx

The next three are from the series titled: My Search for Messiah

http://www.dod.org/Products/My-Search-for-Mes...

and

http://www.dod.org/Products/DOD1932.aspx

and

http://www.dod.org/Products/DOD1933.aspx

For Christians (followers of Christ), Jesus is at the center of everything they believe. As a Jewish young man, Michael Rydelnik refused to even consider Jesus’ claim to be the promised Messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures. But when his own mother, a Holocaust survivor, revealed to her family that she now believed in Jesus, it divided their family.

Michael, in an effort to convince his mother that she was wrong, began to study the Messianic prophecies found in the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament Scriptures. Little did he know that his efforts to find evidence to dissuade his mother from her faith in Jesus would in fact lead him to the Jewish Messiah.

Join Dr. Michael Rydelnik as he recounts his own personal journey of discovery

This links are awesome for bible study and increasing ones faith in Jesus Christ and that He is God.

Enjoy and God bless!

“Keep your eyes on Israel”

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Brother Lee Love wrote:
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
This is only one of the most misunderstood and misinterpreted verses in the bible. People, with their agendas, use this to prove that our anointed Savior is the same "I AM" of Exodus 3:14. This says, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." Now, before I continue with John 8:58, to explain what our anointed Savior meant, I'd like to share with you scriptures that uses this same language. Following is an excerpt from a letter Paul wrote to the church at Corinth.
1Corinthians 15:9-10 For ~I am~ the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God ~I am what I am~: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Now, how many of us will say, now, that Paul was referring to himself as the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14?
It is quite different the way Jesus used the term, I AM and those who heard Him say it and wanted Him stoned to death for declaring Himself equal to God and Paul using it in a sentence stating he is the least of all apostles.

Jesus was using the same name for Himself as God used to Moses.

Paul was using the I am as the same way we do...in a sentence declaring as I would, "I am a printer for my occupation.

Your example and argument is very weak indeed...trying to compare what Jesus proclaimed about Himself and what Paul was saying about himself.
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@BLL

I have to assume that your reason for pursuing this verse has to do with an assertion that Jesus was not claiming to be God in this verse, since he was not. and therefore it follows that the Trinity is invalid. Otherwise I don't see what the value of pursuing it affords.

So I'll answer by providing some verses that, although less definitive, certainly indicate an assertion by Jesus of heavenly capabilities, that occured in the events preceeding the declaration.

"I am the light of the world" (8:12)
"Unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins" (8:24).
"... I proceeded forth and have come from God..." (8:42).

When the statement of vs 58, was added to the context, the Jews knew that Jesus was claiming his deity, and the blasphemy in the Jewish mind necessitated death per the Law of Leviticus 24.

Any doubt that this was the motive that incited the Jews is clarified by John 10:31 where it states the Jews AGAIN, picked up stones to stone him, and vs.33 which indicates their motive: " We are not stoningy you for any of these, but for blasphemy,because you, a mere man (in their opinion) claim to be God"

I'm not impressed with the argument that in other nonrelated instances, where the term "I am" was used in the communication or not, resulted in stoning. There were a number of violations that could result in such a reaction. But in the case of the verse we are discussing, the context of the verse proves the reason for the Jewish response.

“Keep your eyes on Israel”

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Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>
In conclusion, I don't deny that our anointed Savior is "God." Scriptures attest to that. However, I also don't ignore when he called Father "my God, and your God (John 20:17)." Nor do I ignore when scriptures declare that Father is "God of gods (Deuteronomy 10:17)."
You say you do not deny that Jesus Christ is God. Good...very good.

But.....HOW MANY God's do you believe in?

You don't believe in the Trinity....you don't believe Jesus Christ is the same as God the Father (none of us do)....you don't believe the Holy Spirit is God (based on old posts of yours to me)

Now Christians believe in only One God.

But based on what you just posted.....you are showing you believe in more than one God...and that can only be paganistic belief if you believe in more than one God.

So If Jesus is God and God the Father is God....and Let us include God the Holy Spirit for us Christians....How many God's do you count?

In your religion...How many God's are their?

In the Christian faith there is only ONE:(Deuteronomy 6:4)

So do you believe in One God?

Then who is your God?

God the Father?

or

God the Son?

You just claimed the Son (anointed Savior)is God....but you claim the Trinity is a false teaching.

Yet, if we were to follow your beliefs....we would be pagans.....believing in more than one God.

Care to explain How you can deny Jesus is God and then claim He is God?

You are really going to have to explain this.
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Brother Lee Love
Good to see you also. How are you?
So what are you saying? Are you saying Jesus is NOT the I AM?
What part do you not agree with? Jesus did use the words I AM on several occassions and I gave those verses.
I agree the human side of Jesus said my God and my father, but that does not take him away from being the I AM...He was fully God and fully man at the same time.
Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>It's good to see you Native.
I understand what you're saying, but I'm afraid I can't agree. I couldn't even begin to tell you how many times the terms "I am" are used throughout the bible by everyone but our anointed Savior and Father "God," and not in reference to "God," either. The best example I know of is that which I quoted, 1Corinthians 15:9-10. In these verses, Paul uses both, the terms "I am" and "I am what I am."
Now, considering all that you posted, I offer you the following.
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath ~given~ all things into his hand.
John 5:26-27 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he ~given~ to the Son to have life in himself; And hath ~given~ him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had ~given~ all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
John 17:2 As thou hast ~given~ him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast ~given~ him.
John 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast ~given~ me are of thee.
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast ~given~ me; for they are thine.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast ~given~ me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou hast ~gavest~ me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast ~given~ me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast ~given~ me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
In conclusion, I don't deny that our anointed Savior is "God." Scriptures attest to that. However, I also don't ignore when he called Father "my God, and your God (John 20:17)." Nor do I ignore when scriptures declare that Father is "God of gods (Deuteronomy 10:17)."
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how can anyone not believe in the trinity it is God the father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit which is makes a TRUINE God.

“Keep your eyes on Israel”

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Brother Lee Love wrote:
<quoted text>
In conclusion, I don't deny that our anointed Savior is "God." Scriptures attest to that. However, I also don't ignore when he called Father "my God, and your God (John 20:17)." Nor do I ignore when scriptures declare that Father is "God of gods (Deuteronomy 10:17)."
But you have many times in your debates with me in the past denied what God says about His Son:

Hebrews 1:8-9
8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy."

Now the Hebrew writer was quoting right out of the Old Testament declaring the Son is God.....as the Psalmist revealed there are two God's long before.

Psalm 45:7
You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.

BUT.....THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD!(and we know there is only ONE GOD - Deuteronomy 6:4) So the only explanation is that God the Father and God the Son are God.....not God's.

The Trinity has much more evidence...in fact the best evidence is in the Old Testament.....God declared well in advance He was Triune....we Christians have it right.

God is GREAT.

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Native wrote:
Brother Lee Love
Good to see you also. How are you?
So what are you saying? Are you saying Jesus is NOT the I AM?
What part do you not agree with? Jesus did use the words I AM on several occassions and I gave those verses.
I agree the human side of Jesus said my God and my father, but that does not take him away from being the I AM...He was fully God and fully man at the same time.
<quoted text>
Amen and amen Native.

God bless you!

“Become Love!”

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Whatever wrote:
Evidently you missed this verse among many others.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Am I also to miss the phrases "with God" and "was (past-tense) God?"

Am I also to miss, from this same chapter, when it's written; "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten ~of the Father~,) full of grace and truth"?

Am I also to miss, from this same chapter, when it's written; "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him"?

Am I also to miss when it's written; "He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me"?

Am I also to miss when our anointed Savior declared, with a distinction made; "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent"?

Am I also to miss that, as it's written, our anointed Savior is the "image of the invisible God?"

Am I also to miss that, as it's written, all things are OF "God," while all things are BY our anointed Savior?

I could show you many more things I should miss, my friend.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

“Become Love!”

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I seeJesus wrote:
It is quite different the way Jesus used the term, I AM and those who heard Him say it and wanted Him stoned to death for declaring Himself equal to God and Paul using it in a sentence stating he is the least of all apostles.
Jesus was using the same name for Himself as God used to Moses.
Paul was using the I am as the same way we do...in a sentence declaring as I would, "I am a printer for my occupation.
Your example and argument is very weak indeed...trying to compare what Jesus proclaimed about Himself and what Paul was saying about himself.
Our anointed Savior said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." The Jews asked, "Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?" He declared unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Now, let's re-word this, shall we?

Our anointed Savior said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." The Jews asked, "Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?" He declared unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham existed, I existed."

Now, let's re-word this, shall we?

Our anointed Savior said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." The Jews asked, "Thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?" He declared unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham lived, I lived."

I believe it's obvious that our anointed Savior's statement was to declare that he existed and lived even before Abraham existed and lived. He first claimed that Abraham saw his day and rejoiced. This claim prompted their rebuke and their pointing out that he wasn't even fifty years old yet, and whether he believed he had seen Abraham or not.

Them: You've seen Abraham? You're not even fifty years old yet!
Him: On the contrary. I lived even before Abraham lived and I still live today!

Now, consider the following, please and if you will.

Matthew 2:4-6 And when [Herod] had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for this it is written by the prophet (Micah 5:2). And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, art not the least among the princes of Judah: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

Micah 5:2 But you, Bethlehem, Ephratah, though thou be little among thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth to me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

The chief priests and scribes were well aware of the promised Messiah's origins. They didn't wish to stone our anointed Savior because he was claiming to be "I AM." They wished to stone him because he was claiming to be the promised Messiah, "whose goings forth have been" before Abraham was. And as it's written, "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not."

“Become Love!”

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#18
Dec 20, 2011
 

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comment wrote:
@BLL
I have to assume that your reason for pursuing this verse has to do with an assertion that Jesus was not claiming to be God in this verse, since he was not. and therefore it follows that the Trinity is invalid. Otherwise I don't see what the value of pursuing it affords.
So I'll answer by providing some verses that, although less definitive, certainly indicate an assertion by Jesus of heavenly capabilities, that occured in the events preceeding the declaration.
"I am the light of the world" (8:12)
"Unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins" (8:24).
"... I proceeded forth and have come from God..." (8:42).
When the statement of vs 58, was added to the context, the Jews knew that Jesus was claiming his deity, and the blasphemy in the Jewish mind necessitated death per the Law of Leviticus 24.
Any doubt that this was the motive that incited the Jews is clarified by John 10:31 where it states the Jews AGAIN, picked up stones to stone him, and vs.33 which indicates their motive: " We are not stoningy you for any of these, but for blasphemy,because you, a mere man (in their opinion) claim to be God"
I'm not impressed with the argument that in other nonrelated instances, where the term "I am" was used in the communication or not, resulted in stoning. There were a number of violations that could result in such a reaction. But in the case of the verse we are discussing, the context of the verse proves the reason for the Jewish response.
On the contrary, I believe that when they first wished to stone him, that this was because he was claiming to be the promised Messiah, having knowledge of the Messiah's origins (Micah 5:2). And just because scriptures say that they wished to stone him "again," this doesn't mean that the reasons were identical. Consider Luke 4:28-29, please and if you will.

Luke 4:28-29 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.

Now, just a few verses before these, what did he declare of himself?

Luke 4:24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

Our anointed Savior threatened the very authority and livelihood of the priesthood. It wasn't so much that they desired to stone him as it was they just wanted him dead. And this is why they falsely accused him as often as they could, even misinterpreting things he said to exceed what he actually meant.

“Jesus heals but I got medicine”

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Dec 20, 2011
 

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Brother Lee Love wrote:
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
so, why did you abandon the Book of John, and the many times that Jesus said that "He and God were the same". Please read John 1:1-14.

If Jesus were not God, then who is He and who is the Holy Spirit and who are those three inhabitants abiding in you, spirit, soul and body? Have you not noticed that your spirit soul, and body have their own agenda and simply mind?

“Third Eye”

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Dec 20, 2011
 

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Brother Lee Love wrote:
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
This is only one of the most misunderstood and misinterpreted verses in the bible. People, with their agendas, use this to prove that our anointed Savior is the same "I AM" of Exodus 3:14. This says, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." Now, before I continue with John 8:58, to explain what our anointed Savior meant, I'd like to share with you scriptures that uses this same language. Following is an excerpt from a letter Paul wrote to the church at Corinth.
1Corinthians 15:9-10 For ~I am~ the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God ~I am what I am~: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Just by looking at the sentence structure,(Before Abraham was, I am) Jesus is referring to Himself as GOD (Exodus)

Paul,(on the other hand) and if my memory serves me correctly in Timothy stated:

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

You have taken everything out of context IMO

Paul states that he is who he is (a sinner)

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Dec 20, 2011
 

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I seeJesus wrote:
You say you do not deny that Jesus Christ is God. Good...very good.
But.....HOW MANY God's do you believe in?
You don't believe in the Trinity....you don't believe Jesus Christ is the same as God the Father (none of us do)....you don't believe the Holy Spirit is God (based on old posts of yours to me)
Now Christians believe in only One God.
But based on what you just posted.....you are showing you believe in more than one God...and that can only be paganistic belief if you believe in more than one God.
So If Jesus is God and God the Father is God....and Let us include God the Holy Spirit for us Christians....How many God's do you count?
In your religion...How many God's are their?
In the Christian faith there is only ONE:(Deuteronomy 6:4)
So do you believe in One God?
Then who is your God?
God the Father?
or
God the Son?
You just claimed the Son (anointed Savior)is God....but you claim the Trinity is a false teaching.
Yet, if we were to follow your beliefs....we would be pagans.....believing in more than one God.
Care to explain How you can deny Jesus is God and then claim He is God?
You are really going to have to explain this.
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel, YHWH our 'Elohiym is one YHWH.

First, As we read the 1611 KJV, the name of Father is shown as "LORD," in all capitals as I've done here. So, we've no reason not to replace the name of Father where ever "LORD" is found. Secondly, the use of the term "'Elohiym," especially in verses like this one, doesn't necessarily mean that the subject is pluralized. At times, like this one, such form is used to indicate the level of His authority. This "'Elohiym" is to indicate that Father is "'Elowahh Supreme," with none before or beside Him. Now, how many "God's" do I believe in?

First, many of us are fully persuaded by the capitalization, or lack thereof, of the English term "God/god." Secondly, even if we read the term "God," or the term "gods," these appear the same exact way in the original texts. And at the same time, the English term "God" and "god" also appear identically in the original texts, too. So, how many "God's" do I believe in?

Paul wrote, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth,(as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, OF whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, BY whom are all things, and we by him." What Paul was expressing was the importance of recognizing to whom all credit, praise, glory, and honor, are due. It's written that our anointed Savior asked, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods (Psalm 82:6)?" He continued by saying, "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came,~and the scripture cannot be broken~; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

The point is, the term "God," "god," and "gods," are titles. The term, alone, does nothing to clarify the subject. Only "GOD," all capitalized as I've done, indicates this is Father. And this is why I continue to repeat Deuteronomy 10:17. This says, "For YHWH your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward." In Hebrew, the text reads, "For YHWH your 'Elohiym is 'Elohiym ha'elohiym." You'll notice that the identical term is used where, in our English translations, the term is "gods," without capitalization. Regardless, none other is called "God of gods." So, our anointed Savior is "God." Angels are "gods." Judges and magistrates are "gods." In the original texts, if it weren't for the context of the surrounding verses, we wouldn't know of whom the term was referring to. So, how many "God's" do I believe in?

I believe that there's only one Supreme "God," whose name is Yahoweh, our "God of gods." Then, there's our anointed Savior, who's "God." None are beside or before Father, though.

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