Prayer is WORTHLESS, and I can prove it

Prayer is WORTHLESS, and I can prove it

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NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#1 Dec 28, 2008
What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.

If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain,'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.

In Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain,'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."
Hello

United States

#2 Dec 28, 2008
NoamChimpsky wrote:
What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:
Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.
We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.
Will anything happen? No. Of course not.
This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.
If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.
In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:
For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain,'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.
In Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain,'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."
An evil man says, "look I pray",
with a heart full of dirt,
then this fool will say,
"surely prayer does not work."
Gabbylittleangel

Tampa, FL

#3 Dec 28, 2008
Often, when someone prays for something and God does not answer in the way that they think God should answer, in the time that they think God should answer; in other words, they can not seem to get God to jump through their hoops at their command, they walk away thinking that either there is no God, or God does not love them or God does not answer prayer; or they enter a Christian forum and rant like a four year old that has been told that they may not have another piece of candy.

How is it that people who believe that they are descendants of chimpanzees, also believe that they are smarter than God?

NoamChimpsky, I believe that it is good therapy for you to be blowing off steam, and it will also come in handy when someone has to come and confiscate your computer and try to analyse what you are all about. Please, continue to rant. Jesus said that it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks.

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe/God

#4 Dec 28, 2008
Hello wrote:
<quoted text>
An evil man says, "look I pray",
with a heart full of dirt,
then this fool will say,
"surely prayer does not work."
So you're saying that prayer will not work for anyone, how interesting. I didn't think you of all people would admit that.
Gabbylittleangel

Tampa, FL

#5 Dec 28, 2008
John 15:7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.”

NoamChimpsky, are you abiding in the Lord?

Hebrews 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”

NoamChimpsky, Do you have faith? Do you believe that He is? Do you believe that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him?

Matthew 10:43 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Jhn 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
NoamChimpsky, have you denied Him? Jesus said that you must be born again. If you are not born again, you are not God's. If you are not God's, God will not answer your prayers.

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe/God

#6 Dec 28, 2008
Gabbylittleangel wrote:
Often, when someone prays for something and God does not answer in the way that they think God should answer, in the time that they think God should answer; in other words, they can not seem to get God to jump through their hoops at their command, they walk away thinking that either there is no God, or God does not love them or God does not answer prayer; or they enter a Christian forum and rant like a four year old that has been told that they may not have another piece of candy.
How is it that people who believe that they are descendants of chimpanzees, also believe that they are smarter than God?
NoamChimpsky, I believe that it is good therapy for you to be blowing off steam, and it will also come in handy when someone has to come and confiscate your computer and try to analyse what you are all about. Please, continue to rant. Jesus said that it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks.
You squawk out the same old Christian lies like a well trained parrot. He already gave the verses that clearly stated all prayers will be answered, unconditionally. So if your God does not come through as promised, then either he's a false MAN made "God", or he's lying.

And the rest of your post is just stupid insults and rantings. This gives away the fact that you are just another fake Christian.

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#7 Dec 28, 2008
Gabbylittleangel wrote:
Often, when someone prays for something and God does not answer in the way that they think God should answer, in the time that they think God should answer; in other words, they can not seem to get God to jump through their hoops at their command, they walk away thinking that either there is no God, or God does not love them or God does not answer prayer; or they enter a Christian forum and rant like a four year old that has been told that they may not have another piece of candy.
How is it that people who believe that they are descendants of chimpanzees, also believe that they are smarter than God?
NoamChimpsky, I believe that it is good therapy for you to be blowing off steam, and it will also come in handy when someone has to come and confiscate your computer and try to analyse what you are all about. Please, continue to rant. Jesus said that it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks.
I've noticed that the deeply disturbed and brainwashed people (like you) always always try to resort to the most petty personal attacks when someone has the nerve to say something they disagree with. Don't get upset because I correctly pointed out that prayer is useless using irrefutable logic. It's not my fault your mind is so feeble you believe all the fairy tales you were told as a child. But let me ask you something, is a 0.01% success rate on answered prayers (it's probably much, much lower, but I'm being generous) something to be happy with? Have you ever thought that .01% of prayers that actually do come true are things that would have happened anyway? Is it just possible that since almost no prayers are answers, "god" really doesn't give two shits what you say?
Gabbylittleangel

Tampa, FL

#8 Dec 28, 2008
Seentheotherside wrote:
<quoted text>
You squawk out the same old Christian lies like a well trained parrot....
The selfappointed cyberjudge has spoken!

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#9 Dec 28, 2008
Gabbylittleangel wrote:
John 15:7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.”
NoamChimpsky, are you abiding in the Lord?
Hebrews 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”
NoamChimpsky, Do you have faith? Do you believe that He is? Do you believe that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him?
Matthew 10:43 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Jhn 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.
NoamChimpsky, have you denied Him? Jesus said that you must be born again. If you are not born again, you are not God's. If you are not God's, God will not answer your prayers.
Doesn't matter what I believe. I don't believe in god, so by your bible logic my "prayers" (not that I waste my time on such nonsense) won't be answered. I don't care about that. But let's talk about YOU, or any self-proclaimed devout christian. You guys are the ones who claim your shit doesn't stink and you believe in the lord. How many of YOUR prayers are answered? Have you ever prayed for something and it didn't come true? I'm sure that happens pretty much every time you pray. So, according to your logic, that must mean you don't truly accept "god" either, right? Or maybe, just maybe, it means there's no god to begin with.
Hello

United States

#10 Dec 28, 2008
Seentheotherside wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're saying that prayer will not work for anyone, how interesting. I didn't think you of all people would admit that.
So you say, everyone has a filthy heart,

and there is no way to clean it?

I never said that.

I said those with filthy hearts,

should clean it first,

through keeping the commandments and
deep meditation.

Then slowly, little by little,
they will see that prayer works.

Prayer works only to the extent,
of the purity of your heart.
Gabbylittleangel

Tampa, FL

#11 Dec 28, 2008
NoamChimpsky wrote:
<quoted text>
I've noticed that the deeply disturbed and brainwashed people (like you) always always try to resort to the most petty personal attacks when someone has the nerve to say something they disagree with. Don't get upset because I correctly pointed out that prayer is useless using irrefutable logic. It's not my fault your mind is so feeble you believe all the fairy tales you were told as a child. But let me ask you something, is a 0.01% success rate on answered prayers (it's probably much, much lower, but I'm being generous) something to be happy with? Have you ever thought that .01% of prayers that actually do come true are things that would have happened anyway? Is it just possible that since almost no prayers are answers, "god" really doesn't give two shits what you say?

Baby, God answers my prayers.

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#12 Dec 28, 2008
Gabbylittleangel wrote:
<quoted text>
Baby, God answers my prayers.
If your "prayers" are being answered, then you must only be praying for something that is going to happen anyway. If you're praying for something like waking up tomorrow morning, that's hardly "proof" of your prayers being answered. Try praying for something completely selfless, like a cure for cancer, and I guarantee your prayer won't be answered.
Gabbylittleangel

Tampa, FL

#13 Dec 28, 2008
NoamChimpsky wrote:
<quoted text>
If your "prayers" are being answered, then you must only be praying for something that is going to happen anyway. If you're praying for something like waking up tomorrow morning, that's hardly "proof" of your prayers being answered. Try praying for something completely selfless, like a cure for cancer, and I guarantee your prayer won't be answered.

You have no idea do you?
You don't know a thing about me. You don't know what I have ever prayed. You don't know who I have prayed for. You don't know if God has healed people that I have prayed for from cancer.
Repeat this to yourself before you tell me again what you think about me.

"YOU DON'T KNOW"

Your "guarantee" is as worthless as everything else you have posted.

We have all gotten the message that you don't believe. Why do you feel like you need to start new threads to say so? You are simply Chowin' down on your own spam.

If you want to stay a non believer, you should probably move yourself out of the line of prayer. If, on the other hand, you would like to post your prayer request, and tell us who it is that has cancer and ask us to pray for them, you just might see for yourself that God answers prayer.

Then there is also the possibility that you prayed for someone to be healed from cancer, and they died, and that is what has sparked your rant.
Try just a little bit of truth the next time you post.

If you are wanting some help from the Christian community, ASK.
Nephilim

Altadena, CA

#14 Dec 28, 2008
NoamChimpsky wrote:
What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:
Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.
We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.
Will anything happen? No. Of course not.
This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.
If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.
In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:
For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain,'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.
In Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain,'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."
I am beginning to think you are right. I keep praying for people like you. That your hatred for people who believe differently than you would be relieved and that your maturity would increase beyond the level of a grade school student. I have yet to see any growth or improvement.
Lucifer

Halifax, UK

#15 Dec 28, 2008
Gabbylittleangel wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are wanting some help from the Christian community, ASK.
I would like (GBP) 2 Million, can you help?

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#16 Dec 28, 2008
Gabbylittleangel wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no idea do you?
You don't know a thing about me. You don't know what I have ever prayed. You don't know who I have prayed for. You don't know if God has healed people that I have prayed for from cancer.
Repeat this to yourself before you tell me again what you think about me.
"YOU DON'T KNOW"
Your "guarantee" is as worthless as everything else you have posted.
We have all gotten the message that you don't believe. Why do you feel like you need to start new threads to say so? You are simply Chowin' down on your own spam.
If you want to stay a non believer, you should probably move yourself out of the line of prayer. If, on the other hand, you would like to post your prayer request, and tell us who it is that has cancer and ask us to pray for them, you just might see for yourself that God answers prayer.
Then there is also the possibility that you prayed for someone to be healed from cancer, and they died, and that is what has sparked your rant.
Try just a little bit of truth the next time you post.
If you are wanting some help from the Christian community, ASK.
Hey, say what you want about me, but at least I'm not a liar like you. ALL of your prayers are answered? Either you're really reaching to prove your point, or you're just delusional.
Missionary Man

Ravenna, OH

#17 Dec 28, 2008
NoamChimpsky wrote:
What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:
Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.
We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.
Will anything happen? No. Of course not.
This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.
If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:
EDITED FOR SPACE."
Great question! I hope my answer will help you understand more clearly. Yes, I believe that God does the miraculous through simple faith in Him. However, some have extended this truth from "believing in faith" to "claiming in faith." There is a difference! In such cases human desire is imposed upon the sovereign will and purposes of God. I believe to make such demands on God is contrary to the spirit of Scripture.

This imbalance in applying faith grows out of an effort to see and experience the supernatural. As an example, people who are ill or in need require healing or some form of provision in their life. In an act of faith, they petition God through prayer to answer their needs. Time passes. With no immediate answer in sight they grow weary of waiting and demand answers. In response, isolated Bible verses are used to support their insistence that God must perform according to their demands. Sadly, what begins as a sincere longing to see God work degenerates into a spirit of insistence. Ultimately, this attitude prevents a trusting rest in God's care and His provision.

Sometimes when prayers aren't answered as one requests, other zealous believers comment, "You didn’t have enough faith," or "You need to increase your faith." But to make such statements is as futile as to say "Stop being sick." This gives emphasis on faith in faith itself rather than faith in God. He and He alone is to be the object and focus of our faith.

How do we stay on the cutting edge of faith while still avoiding the extreme? The answer is paradoxical–the willingness to trust and believe while also experiencing a spirit of acceptance to God’s sovereign purposes. In other words, we pray in faith but are content to leave the results with God.

The danger of missing the essential faith balance in one’s prayer petitions, therefore, is twofold: 1) That we shrink back from believing God for the supernatural–that full expectation that He is going to act; and 2) that we cross over the line and become god-players–the imposing of our agenda on God. All Christians must find a balance between aggressive faith and obedient compliance to His will. To this balance the Scriptures give strong testimony.

NoamChimpsky

“Religion is for stupid people”

Since: May 08

Anytown, USA

#18 Dec 28, 2008
PRAYER STILL USELESS

Why do they bother? Yet another group has performed a study into intercessory prayer and yet again has concluded that prayer doesn’t do anything:

Praying for patients undergoing heart operations does not improve their outcomes, a US study suggests.

A study found those who were prayed for were as likely to have a setback in hospital, be re-admitted, or die within six months as those not prayed for.

Duh! Numerous other studies have replicated this same (lack of) result. Praying doesn’t change anything, or only does when subjects thought they were in the prayer group (ie it is a placebo).

I’m not saying that there aren’t studies that show prayer has an effect. There have been several such studies, but eventually they are shown to be flawed, and/or when the controls are tightened the effect disappears, and/or they have been shown to be fraudulent. I give three examples below.
Byrd

One of the most frequently quoted “successful” studies was by Randolph Byrd of the San Francisco General Medical Center:

To evaluate the effects of IP (intercessory prayer) in a coronary care unit (CCU) population, a prospective randomized double-blind protocol was followed. Over ten months, 393 patients admitted to the CCU were randomized, after signing informed consent, to an intercessory prayer group (192 patients) or to a control group (201 patients).

[Snip]

The control patients required ventilatory assistance, antibiotics, and diuretics more frequently than patients in the IP group. These data suggest that intercessory prayer to the Judeo-Christian God has a beneficial therapeutic effect in patients admitted to a CCU.

Byrd claimed that the prayer group did better than the control in six categories.

But there were severe methodological problems with this study. First, no significant differences were found among the other twenty categories being evaluated, including mortality, despite explicit prayers for prevention of death. Byrd had cherry-picked the six categories that happened to support his hypothesis and ignored the others.

Second, in looking at outcomes in those six categories that did support his conclusion, Byrd ignored the interrelationships between the categories. For example, the development of congestive heart failure automatically leads to the need for diuretics; the development of pneumonia automatically requires the use of antibiotics. Since these were not independent events he hadn’t really even reported success in six categories; three at most.

And third, there was no significant difference in length of recovery period, despite explicit prayers for a rapid recovery. This is what counts as success, apparently.

http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/07/pr...
Gabbylittleangel

Tampa, FL

#19 Dec 28, 2008
Nephilim wrote:
<quoted text>I am beginning to think you are right. I keep praying for people like you. That your hatred for people who believe differently than you would be relieved and that your maturity would increase beyond the level of a grade school student. I have yet to see any growth or improvement.

Pray for discernment ~ for yourself.

Sometimes God says don't give up. You have to be to this person the way that Anne Sullivan was to Helen Keller. Keep at it, and one day he will fold his napkin like a civilized human being.(God has us dealing with this person for some reason)

Sometimes God says move, wait, move, wait. Seeds were planted. It is for someone else to water. Someone else to harvest. God seems to have a team of people trying to reach this one lost soul.

Sometimes God says that they have passed the point of no return, committed the unpardonable sin, and any effort here is wasted. There are other fields that are white for harvest and your efforts are needed there.

God only knows. But keep praying until God removes the burden.
Gabbylittleangel

Tampa, FL

#20 Dec 28, 2008
Lucifer wrote:
<quoted text>
I would like (GBP) 2 Million, can you help?

Only if you would use every bit of it to reach the lost world for the Lord Jesus Christ.

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