Is the Bible always literally true or correct?

Created by Big Al on Jun 16, 2014

540 votes

Click on an option to vote

Yes

No

messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1796 Jul 30, 2014
howstupidareyou wrote:
<quoted text>
hey stupazz, what does one thing have to do with another? So now we assume any story we find ,regardless if there is no evidence to support it, and claim it is real because of some hittite empire?.. WTF...what kind of moron are you?...
I guess we assume the lochness monster is real... BigFoot is real.... and flying saucers are real as well....
you really need to get off the internet...you are too stupid....
you have yet to provide a single shred of evidence for anything....
.
Why are you asking someone who is stupid to explain things for you? They are still making the same stupid statements based upon lack of evidence today that they did in the past. Some people cannot learn from past mistakes. And some can't figure out what's happening.
.
<quoted text>
I guess we assume the lochness monster is real... BigFoot is real.... and flying saucers are real as well....
.
Do we have any historical records of these things. If so then I suggest we don't make claims based upon no evidence to the contrary.
.
<quoted text>
you really need to get off the internet...you are too stupid....
you have yet to provide a single shred of evidence for anything....
.
In case you haven't figured this out, I have been challenging you to support your claims. It is not me who is claiming I have the proof, it is you, by quoting things taken from the internet which is nothing but opinion. So much for stupid.
.
In case you don't realize this, Israel was a farming and flock raising culture. What need would they have for large cities like we have today? So if 90% of the population was living in tents, what kind of archeological evidence would we find. Secondly are they looking out in the grasslands for artefacts? No they aren't.
.
Additionally I gave you evidence in the case of the Egyptian papyrus, which supported the plagues found in the Bible. So what did you do? Did you get a translation for yourself, no you went to the internet to find someone who would dispute the obvious.
.
I will give you another tip. There are people out there (you may be one of them) who don't want to admit G-d exists because then they would have to admit he expects something from them and he will judge them for their actions. So not being content with that and keeping it to themselves they come to Christian forums, etc and try to disprove G-d. When challenged they ask for proof of G-d, which they wouldn't accept anyway. Can you tell me why someone would do this? If I were to go into an atheist room I would expect the burden of proof was upon me. I wouldn't go in asking them to prove G-d doesn't exist. I also wouldn't ask them to disprove the bible as that is irrelevant to them.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1797 Jul 30, 2014
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
“The ancient Egyptians used two bright stars in the Big Dipper and Little Dipper constellations to align their pyramids in a north-south direction, a British Egyptologist says.…It's an ‘ingenious solution to a long-standing mystery’, says astronomer and science historian Owen Gingerich of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Massachusetts.…The tombs are aligned north-south with an accuracy of up to 0.05 degrees.…But the accuracy wasn't constant, Kate Spence of Cambridge University points out. Instead, the alignment of successive pyramids first steadily improved up to the building of the Great Pyramid, then later deteriorated.…Rewinding the astronomical clock using modern computers shows that the two stars rotated around the pole opposite each other in the Old Kingdom sky. In other words, an imaginary line joining the stars passed through the North Pole. When the two stars lay vertically above each other, both would mark the position of true north for the pyramid builders.…However, due to precession, the line joining Mizar and Kochab only drifted into precise alignment with the north pole in 2467 BC, then wandered away”- Hazel Muir, New Scientist
That also would date the building of the pyramids to about the same time as the flood for a young earth creationist.
<quoted text>
True the Eiffel Tower was not such an amazing feat given the technology and resources available. But Gustave Eiffel was one of the first engineers to recognize the importance of wind forces on tall structures. He designed the surface of his Tower to be so minimal that the wind has virtually nothing to grab onto.
<quoted text>
Jeanne Louise Calment (born in 1875 / died 1997) was the oldest living person and had the longest confirmed human life span in history, living to the age of 122 years, 164 days. Carmelo Flores Laura who died on June 9, 2014 had a baptism certificate (they didn’t have birth certificates until 1940) dated July 16, 1890 which would make him almost 124 when he died if the baptism certificate is accurate. There is no documented evidence of anyone even making it to 200 let alone 600 or 900.
“Works that profess to be historical are of various kinds and trustworthy in varying degrees…there is historical romance which in a frame work of history interweaves an invented tale.…There is legend in which popular fancy working for generations has surrounded a real person and with such a mass of extraneous matter that the historical kernel is hardly discernible.…the modern student has to exercise his historical tact, comparing the narrative with any other evidence that can be obtained from any source, and judging whether the action attributed to individuals is compatible with the possibilities of human nature.”- Sir William Mitchell Ramsay
.
<quoted text>
Jeanne Louise Calment (born in 1875 / died 1997) was the oldest living person and had the longest confirmed human life span in history, living to the age of 122 years, 164 days. Carmelo Flores Laura who died on June 9, 2014 had a baptism certificate (they didn’t have birth certificates until 1940) dated July 16, 1890 which would make him almost 124 when he died if the baptism certificate is accurate. There is no documented evidence of anyone even making it to 200 let alone 600 or 900.
.
We don't live under the same conditions as the antediluvian world. We know in the past the atmospheric pressure was higher and this is a game changer.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#1800 Jul 30, 2014
howstupidareyou wrote:
"Do we have any historical records of these things. If so then I suggest we don't make claims based upon no evidence to the contrary."
yes, there are historical records of the lochness monster and BigFoot... even video....does that make them real?...
make sure you solidify your stupidity on this thread...
do you want to see you tube video of flying saucers and aliens? you believe that as well... IDIOT..
Flying saucers? Heck, we have flying lawnmower videos.

Warning: Chuck Berry riffs and redneck lyrics.

http://www.wimp.com/flyingmower/
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#1801 Jul 30, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
<quoted text>
Jeanne Louise Calment (born in 1875 / died 1997) was the oldest living person and had the longest confirmed human life span in history, living to the age of 122 years, 164 days. Carmelo Flores Laura who died on June 9, 2014 had a baptism certificate (they didn’t have birth certificates until 1940) dated July 16, 1890 which would make him almost 124 when he died if the baptism certificate is accurate. There is no documented evidence of anyone even making it to 200 let alone 600 or 900.
.
We don't live under the same conditions as the antediluvian world. We know in the past the atmospheric pressure was higher and this is a game changer.
An interesting hypothesis do you have any science to support it or is it just a product of your imagination?
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1803 Jul 30, 2014
howstupidareyou wrote:
<quoted text>
you know why? because it is all based on opinions of one sort or another.. there are no originals and the authors are unknown... but we know one thing for certain.. THERE IS NO SUPERNATURAL.. not a single case .. not one demonstration you can provide... not one miracle..not one prayer working and not one god....
now, we can prove the Big BAng... the evidence for evolution in the Smithsonian... and it has been demonstrated in laboratories as well...
NASA has proved amino acids are created by themselves in space from basic elements and those are the building blocks of life... and we can go on and on what science has proved and demonstrated..
you have your childish stories and that's all you got...
so let me end it with BWHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA... keep dreaming ....
.
<quoted text>
now, we can prove the Big BAng...
.
Who disputes the Big Bang? This is not a cause this is the mechanism.
.
NASA has proved amino acids are created by themselves in space from basic elements and those are the building blocks of life... and we can go on and on what science has proved and demonstrated..
.
And this proves what, that chemicals can form into organic compounds, we have known that since the 60s. Bwahahahahah
.
You have asked for a demonstration of a miracle, I ask for a demonstration that one kind has changed into another....just one. Bwahahahah
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1804 Jul 30, 2014
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
If the flood occurred about 2300 BCE as young Earth creationists believe then Tubal-Cain lived well before the flood and well before any archaeological evidence of iron tool making. Genesis 4:22 is generally considered to be evidence that Genesis was not written by Moses but by some unknown authors between the 9th and 3rd centuries BCE.
“Iron positively dates this passage [Genesis 4:22] to being written after the beginning of the Iron Age in the Middle East - around 1200 BCE....the tone of the verse makes it clear that he was an instructor of artificers, plural, something that could only have been written long after instructors were commonplace, long after the beginning of the Iron Age.”- Robert G. Brown PhD. in Physics Duke University
<quoted text>
If the flood occurred about 2300 BCE you are suggesting that the Middle kingdom of Egypt, The Kerma culture in Nubia, the Olmec civilization in Mexico, the Shang and Zhou Dynasties in China, the Oxus civilization in central Asia, the Hittites of Asia Minor as well as many others all came into existence within a few hundred years of there being only 6 survivors of the flood not to mention the Indus Valley Civilization in India which is known to have existed a 1,000 years before the young earth supposed date of the flood.
<quoted text>
There is no inconsistency. I don’t believe Noah or anyone else ever lived to be 600 years old. I’m just using the unreasonable information given in the Bible story to point out its irrationality. I think the story is a greatly embellished myth based on an ancient oral legend about a normal man who lived to a normal age who survived a localized flood somewhere in the Middle East with his family and his domesticated animals on a relatively small boat that he himself built.
.
If the flood occurred about 2300 BCE as young Earth creationists believe then Tubal-Cain lived well before the flood and well before any archaeological evidence of iron tool making. Genesis 4:22 is generally considered to be evidence that Genesis was not written by Moses but by some unknown authors between the 9th and 3rd centuries BCE.
.
Not before any evidence of iron working. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/...
.
If I may point out the flaw...We have a position that iron working was not until the 9th century BC, therefore any evidence to the contrary puts not our dating into question but the reliability of the document, even when other evidence is introduced like the link.
.
<quoted text>
.the tone of the verse makes it clear that he was an instructor of artificers, plural, something that could only have been written long after instructors were commonplace, long after the beginning of the Iron Age.”- Robert G. Brown PhD. in Physics Duke University
.
Tell me how does this logically follow?
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1805 Jul 30, 2014
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
If the flood occurred about 2300 BCE as young Earth creationists believe then Tubal-Cain lived well before the flood and well before any archaeological evidence of iron tool making. Genesis 4:22 is generally considered to be evidence that Genesis was not written by Moses but by some unknown authors between the 9th and 3rd centuries BCE.
“Iron positively dates this passage [Genesis 4:22] to being written after the beginning of the Iron Age in the Middle East - around 1200 BCE....the tone of the verse makes it clear that he was an instructor of artificers, plural, something that could only have been written long after instructors were commonplace, long after the beginning of the Iron Age.”- Robert G. Brown PhD. in Physics Duke University
<quoted text>
If the flood occurred about 2300 BCE you are suggesting that the Middle kingdom of Egypt, The Kerma culture in Nubia, the Olmec civilization in Mexico, the Shang and Zhou Dynasties in China, the Oxus civilization in central Asia, the Hittites of Asia Minor as well as many others all came into existence within a few hundred years of there being only 6 survivors of the flood not to mention the Indus Valley Civilization in India which is known to have existed a 1,000 years before the young earth supposed date of the flood.
<quoted text>
There is no inconsistency. I don’t believe Noah or anyone else ever lived to be 600 years old. I’m just using the unreasonable information given in the Bible story to point out its irrationality. I think the story is a greatly embellished myth based on an ancient oral legend about a normal man who lived to a normal age who survived a localized flood somewhere in the Middle East with his family and his domesticated animals on a relatively small boat that he himself built.
.
<quoted text>
If the flood occurred about 2300 BCE you are suggesting that the Middle kingdom of Egypt, The Kerma culture in Nubia, the Olmec civilization in Mexico, the Shang and Zhou Dynasties in China, the Oxus civilization in central Asia, the Hittites of Asia Minor as well as many others all came into existence within a few hundred years of there being only 6 survivors of the flood not to mention the Indus Valley Civilization in India which is known to have existed a 1,000 years before the young earth supposed date of the flood.
.
What I am suggesting is we can't trust the dating of archeologists.
.
Secondly I already went over the math that 6 billion people can come from 4 in less than 1000 years.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1806 Jul 30, 2014
gain this is based upon an assumption that all things are today as they were in the past even though we know there was a change in atmospheric pressure. This would allow for more oxygen to be transferred into our blood system and be a deterrent to cancer and who knows what else. Until someone does testing under higher pressures we can't rule this out. I can tell you this, if I could afford it I would sleep in a barometric chamber.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1807 Jul 30, 2014
howstupidareyou wrote:
<quoted text>
incidentally douche bag, who said there was no troy..in fact there were several Troy's at various locations...over various spans of time... you make horseschitt in a lame attempt to justify your lack of any evidence..
.
Everyone knows the archeologists of his time thought he was wasting his time. So that is who said there is no Troy, until it was discovered, hence the egg.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1808 Jul 30, 2014
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither does the use of iron in Egypt have anything to do with iron technology in Canaan.
I said it was my own conclusion. Are you also dismissing 2500 years of Hebrew scholarship? It is, after all, their book.
.
If iron working was in use in Egypt, and Hebrews had contact with Egypt (spending 215 years there) it is not unreasonable to assume that the technology migrated to Israel. After all isn't is you who is using this same logic to conclude that the story of Gilgamesh migrated to Israel where it was retold as Noah?
.
<quoted text>
Are you also dismissing 2500 years of Hebrew scholarship? It is, after all, their book.
.
You can find opinions on anything in every strata of humanity. Since 90% of Jews are not what one would call literalists and many are atheists, this colours their opinion. I would challenge you to give evidence from 2000 years ago that anyone thought as you make it out to be.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#1809 Jul 30, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
If the flood occurred about 2300 BCE as young Earth creationists believe then Tubal-Cain lived well before the flood and well before any archaeological evidence of iron tool making. Genesis 4:22 is generally considered to be evidence that Genesis was not written by Moses but by some unknown authors between the 9th and 3rd centuries BCE.
.
Not before any evidence of iron working. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/...

If I may point out the flaw...We have a position that iron working was not until the 9th century BC, therefore any evidence to the contrary puts not our dating into question but the reliability of the document, even when other evidence is introduced like the link.
There is no flaw. I pointed out that the iron artifacts from 4th millennium Egypt were small beads of iron made from meteoritic iron not tools from smelted iron as your link says.
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.the tone of the verse makes it clear that he was an instructor of artificers, plural, something that could only have been written long after instructors were commonplace, long after the beginning of the Iron Age.”- Robert G. Brown PhD. in Physics Duke University
.
Tell me how does this logically follow?
If Genesis speaks of many iron artificers then Genesis must have been written after 900 BCE because the archeological evidence shows that many artificers of iron did not exist before 900 BCE.
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#1810 Jul 30, 2014
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no evidence that the Egyptians were smelting iron or using iron tools in 3,000 BCE. The iron artifacts, from 4th millennium BCE Egypt are small hand hammered beads made from meteoritic iron-nickel not smelted iron. Smelted iron artifacts don't start showing up until about 1,300 BCE and the widespread use of smelted iron tools and weapons is not seen in the archeological record until about the 9th century BCE. That's why you shot yourself in the foot by bringing up the Bible passage about Tubal-Cain.
.
And who says then that the iron in question was smelted. The issue was the use of iron.
.
One of the earliest smelted iron artifacts known is a dagger with an iron blade found in a Hattic tomb in Anatolia, dating from 2500 BC.[13] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrous_metallur...
.
What more do you want?

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1811 Jul 30, 2014
howstupidareyou wrote:
.
if your proof of god now rests on the some interpretation of some plagues in egypt.... then all I can is WOW..you are really reaching for some myths... here are natural explanations for calamaties:
Natural explanations
Historians have suggested that the plagues are passed-down accounts of several natural disasters, some disconnected, others playing part of a chain reaction. Natural explanations have been suggested for most of the phenomena:
Plague 1 — water turned into blood; fish died
Dr. Stephen Pflugmacher, a biologist at the Leibniz Institute for Water Ecology and Inland Fisheries in Berlin believes that rising temperatures could have turned the Nile into a slow-moving, muddy watercourse--conditions favorable for the spread of toxic fresh water algae. As the organism known as Burgundy Blood algae dies, it turns the water red.[35]
Alternatively, a bloody appearance could be due to an environmental change, such as a drought, which could have contributed to the spread of the Chromatiaceae bacteria which thrive in stagnant, oxygen-deprived water.[36]
Plague 2 — frogs
Any blight on the water that killed fish also would have caused frogs to leave the river and probably die.
Plagues 3 and 4 — biting insects and wild animals
The lack of frogs in the river would have let insect populations, normally kept in check by the frogs, increase massively. The rotting corpses of fish and frogs would have attracted significantly more insects to the areas near the Nile.
Plagues 5 and 6 — livestock disease and boils
There are biting flies in the region which transmit livestock diseases; a sudden increase in their number could spark epidemics.
Plague 7 — fiery hail
Plague 8 — locusts
According to the UN Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO), when they get hungry, a one-ton horde of locusts can eat the same amount of food in one day as 2,500 humans.[37]
Plague 9 — darkness
The immediate cause of this plague is theorized to be the "hamsin", a south or southwest wind charged with sand and dust, which blows about the spring equinox and at times produces darkness rivaling that of the worst London fogs.[38]
Plague 10 — death of the firstborn
If the last plague indeed selectively tended to affect the firstborn, it could be due to food polluted during the time of darkness, either by locusts or by the black mold Cladosporium. When people emerged after the darkness, the firstborn would be given priority, as was usual, and would consequently be more likely to be affected by any toxin or disease carried by the food. Meanwhile, the Israelites ate food prepared and eaten very quickly which would have made it less likely to be contaminated.
Yet all are speculation at best...

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1812 Jul 30, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
<quoted text>You have asked for a demonstration of a miracle, I ask for a demonstration that one kind has changed into another....just one. Bwahahahah
C'mon dude, you know that takes 'millions' of years...

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#1813 Jul 30, 2014
NDanger wrote:
<quoted text>
C'mon dude, you know that takes 'millions' of years...
1) Puppy dogs are cute.
2) It's still a Hobbit.
3) It's really complicated.
4) You weren't there.

In the quartet of fundie proofs for the existence of the God of Abraham we haven't seen 'It's still a Hobbit' in maybe two days nor 'You weren't there' since yesterday.
Nc resident

Charlotte, NC

#1814 Jul 30, 2014
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
1) Puppy dogs are cute.
2) It's still a Hobbit.
3) It's really complicated.
4) You weren't there.
In the quartet of fundie proofs for the existence of the God of Abraham we haven't seen 'It's still a Hobbit' in maybe two days nor 'You weren't there' since yesterday.
Why does any of this matter to you? How and when the earth began and humans came into being does not change a lightbulb. Don't you get tired of mocking another's faith? Why do you mirror the exact behavior you protest?
messianic1114

Calgary, Canada

#1818 Jul 30, 2014
howstupidareyou wrote:
<quoted text>
If you're asking for transitional fossils, then yes. You can look up pictures of Archaeopteryx, a transitional fossil linking reptiles and modern birds; or Tiktaalik, a link between fish and tetrapods (four-limbed animals). Or, if you want to go even farther back, look at the strong similarities between the flagellated collar cells that make up a sponge and the choanoflagellates, probably the closest thing we know of to the ancestor of all modern complex animals!
More at the Smithsonian
no one saw oswald shoot president kennedy, but he left credible evidence...
no one saw scott peterson kill his wife and dump her into the SF bay, but he sits in jail... that's what credible evidence does for you...
.
<quoted text>
If you're asking for transitional fossils, then yes. You can look up pictures of Archaeopteryx, a transitional fossil linking reptiles and modern birds; or Tiktaalik, a link between fish and tetrapods (four-limbed animals). Or, if you want to go even farther back, look at the strong similarities between the flagellated collar cells that make up a sponge and the choanoflagellates, probably the closest thing we know of to the ancestor of all modern complex animals!
.
None of this is proof as there multiple other explanations.
1. It isn't a transitional form, but a independently evolved species.
2. It was an independently created form.
.
It couldn't pass the scientific method for many reasons.
1. It wasn't observed.
2. It wasn't tested.
3. It can't be reproduced.
messianic1114

Calgary, Canada

#1819 Jul 30, 2014
howstupidareyou wrote:
"This is not a cause this is the mechanism."
WTF does that mean.... pure nonsense pulled out your anal orifice...because you have nothing about your imaginary fairy in the sky
.
Its not my fault you don't know the difference between a mechanism and a cause.
.
You could say the cause is a random chance but someone here already stated evolution is not random and I didn't see you dispute that.

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#1820 Jul 31, 2014
howstupidareyou wrote:
<quoted text>
so natural explanations are speculation, but your supernatural explanations are reality....BWHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAH A....
sniffing your mommy's skids marks now, eh?....BWHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA....sn iff them real hard....
and of course (like big al) you believe everything on the internet that doesn't point to GOD. How's this for thought, maybe GOD used "natural explanations" to bring havoc down on the Pharaoh...

Put your mamma's manties down as you are too high to be passing yourself off as intelligent.

I'd say go find a job, but you have 5 yrs of grade school to finish...and oh, wipe the schit from your face and get a real tan...
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#1822 Jul 31, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
And who says then that the iron in question was smelted. The issue was the use of iron.
.
One of the earliest smelted iron artifacts known is a dagger with an iron blade found in a Hattic tomb in Anatolia, dating from 2500 BC.[13] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrous_metallur...
.
What more do you want?
The problem with tool making based on meteoric iron is that meteors are few and far between which would make meteoric iron very rare. As the link you provided says...

"These early uses appear to have been largely ceremonial or ornamental. Meteoric iron is very rare, and the metal was probably very expensive, perhaps more expensive than gold."

The same would probably have been true of early smelted iron. As your link also says...

"Iron smelting-the extraction of useable metal from oxidized iron ores-is more difficult than tin and copper smelting....However iron artifacts remained a rarity until the 12th century BC."

Although I still think it contrary to logic and reason that Noah would have had iron tools available in the 3rd millennium BCE I will grant you that it is a far-fetched possibility. I do not, however, consider it even a far-fetched possibility that Tubal-Cain was an instructor of iron artificers in the 4th or 5th millennium BCE.

With all of that being said it still strains credulity to believe that 3 or 4 elderly men were able to build an ark almost the size of the Titanic (even with primitive iron tools).

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Christian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Questions for Dollarsbill? 4 min truthandcommonsense 119
For God so loved the world. 6 min truthandcommonsense 10
Organ donations for Jews only 7 min truthandcommonsense 4
Poll If you're Christain what kind are you? (Oct '07) 13 min RiccardoFire 3,508
Would Jesus have attended a Gay Wedding? 20 min flame of truth 478
Before The Big Bang 34 min Rose_NoHo 3,868
Nearly all Christians are Frauds 42 min Xcaliber 35
Is Paul a false Apostle? (Sep '13) 1 hr dollarsbill 2,704
More from around the web