Was Paul a False Apostle?

Was Paul a False Apostle?

Created by Mark on May 29, 2008

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Yes

No

I’m not sure but he was likely

I’m not sure but I doubt it

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Mark

Somerset, NJ

#1 May 29, 2008
Here's some information on this topic:

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe....
Logic

San Antonio, TX

#2 May 29, 2008
Of course he was...everything Jesus worked so hard to teach was derailed by Paul. Don't believe me? I can cite you from the Holy Bible all the derailing Paul did.

Jesus was circumcised on the eighth day--Paul said it was not necessary.

Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law nor the prophets--Paul said to nail the law to the cross and even called it a "curse".

Jesus said to keep the commandments to enter heaven--Paul said you must believe in the blood to be saved.

Jesus said we will be judged according to our works--Paul said works are of no concern, but faith alone is what is needed...

And countless other teachings of Jesus that Paul derailed. Jesus even warned of the likes of Paul, but as to be expected, the Bible thumpers refuse to see:

Matthew 5:18-20
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Notice Jesus said not one single jot shall pass from the law, yet Paul derailed the entire law by calling it a curse and nailing it to the cross! And Jesus goes on to say that whoever teaches these things shall be called the least in heaven. Did not Paul teach men that circumcision is not necessary (law)? Did not Paul teach that clean or unclean food are of no concern (law)? Did not Paul teach that only faith was necessary as opposed to the 10 commandments (law)? So why do you Bible thumpers refuse to attribute this prophecy Jesus made? Was Jesus simply pulling a fast one on us? Of course not! So I'm asking my Hot Gospeler friends, who is Jesus speaking of in this prophecy? To whom does it apply then?

It is obvious it is to Paul. And in verse 20 Jesus basically says unless you are better than the Jew there is no heaven for you...so how can you be better than the Jew by not following the law and the commandments? LOL so you Hot Gospelers really have some explaining to do.
Mechanic45

Oneida, TN

#3 May 29, 2008
Logic wrote:
Of course he was...everything Jesus worked so hard to teach was derailed by Paul. Don't believe me? I can cite you from the Holy Bible all the derailing Paul did.
Jesus was circumcised on the eighth day--Paul said it was not necessary.
Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law nor the prophets--Paul said to nail the law to the cross and even called it a "curse".
Jesus said to keep the commandments to enter heaven--Paul said you must believe in the blood to be saved.
Jesus said we will be judged according to our works--Paul said works are of no concern, but faith alone is what is needed...
And countless other teachings of Jesus that Paul derailed. Jesus even warned of the likes of Paul, but as to be expected, the Bible thumpers refuse to see:
Matthew 5:18-20
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Notice Jesus said not one single jot shall pass from the law, yet Paul derailed the entire law by calling it a curse and nailing it to the cross! And Jesus goes on to say that whoever teaches these things shall be called the least in heaven. Did not Paul teach men that circumcision is not necessary (law)? Did not Paul teach that clean or unclean food are of no concern (law)? Did not Paul teach that only faith was necessary as opposed to the 10 commandments (law)? So why do you Bible thumpers refuse to attribute this prophecy Jesus made? Was Jesus simply pulling a fast one on us? Of course not! So I'm asking my Hot Gospeler friends, who is Jesus speaking of in this prophecy? To whom does it apply then?
It is obvious it is to Paul. And in verse 20 Jesus basically says unless you are better than the Jew there is no heaven for you...so how can you be better than the Jew by not following the law and the commandments? LOL so you Hot Gospelers really have some explaining to do.
Oh, this should be fun.

Nice to see you again, Logic.

Still trying to play the Devil's apprentice, I see.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus' answer (By Luke's account)
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

So if the Law then was NOT fulfilled, and yet still in effect, consider that the penelty for blasphemy...is death.

Does that appeal to you?

“The Great Druid”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#4 May 29, 2008
Mechanic45 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, this should be fun.
Nice to see you again, Logic.
Still trying to play the Devil's apprentice, I see.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus' answer (By Luke's account)
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
So if the Law then was NOT fulfilled, and yet still in effect, consider that the penelty for blasphemy...is death.
Does that appeal to you?
The law IS still in effect, and applies to JEWS AND CHRISTIANS but not to non believers, even in the time the law was written it was FOR THE HEBREWS not the nations around them, for who are you to judge another mans servant.

Logic tries to start these debates but does not want to discuss the matter, He just wants to be contrary.

But You can not hold a non believer up to the laws of the God of Christ, but a Christian will be judged by the laws of their God.

“The Great Druid”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#5 May 29, 2008
When a person swears allegiance to the U.S.A. they swear to uphold the laws of the USA, the same is true when a person comes to Christ they swear to uphold the laws of the God of Jesus the Christ.
Wayne

Clear Spring, MD

#6 May 29, 2008
No, he was NOT a false Apostle. Peter, James and John gave him and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship because they discerned the Spirit that sent them. Peter even gave Paul credentials when he called Pauls writings scripture.The ones that have trouble with Paul are as Peter says, wresting the scriptures to their own destruction. You have trouble with Pauls writings? Then YOU are the one with the problem.

Since: May 07

Waynesville, MO

#7 May 29, 2008
Taranis wrote:
<quoted text>
The law IS still in effect, and applies to JEWS AND CHRISTIANS but not to non believers, even in the time the law was written it was FOR THE HEBREWS not the nations around them, for who are you to judge another mans servant.
Logic tries to start these debates but does not want to discuss the matter, He just wants to be contrary.
But You can not hold a non believer up to the laws of the God of Christ, but a Christian will be judged by the laws of their God.
What law do you claim is still in effect?
Mark

Croydon, PA

#8 May 29, 2008
I suggest that anyone interested in some very interesting reading that you click on the link I originally posted, which again is:

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe....

If you go to the bottom of the page and click on 'Next Chapter' you will see further reading regarding Paul and continue on it get even better. This person who wrote this has some very interesting views about a lot of issues including Hebrews which he believe was written by Apollos. He says that Apollos got a lot of things wrong. Fore example, when the writer of Hebrews says that the Levitical priesthood was replaced by the priesthood after the order of Melchizedek, it is wrong. In fact, he goes into a very interesting discussion about the bloodline of Christ which he bases on scripture.

Here is the link about the Book of Hebrews:

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/hebrews....
Wayne

Clear Spring, MD

#9 May 29, 2008
What a precious treasure we have in our salvation, in Yahshua, and in the Bible. Sadly, though, there are those who are out to steal all three treasures from us. I personally know of several brethren in my circle of acquaintances who have renounced Yahshua as their Savior. They failed to guard their treasure and their hearts. Those treasures were stolen from them. The theft occurred slowly over time and it all began with doubting the Apostle Paul.

The Ebionite teaching that the Apostle Paul is a false apostle is being revived. If it hasn't touched you yet, it will. This study is actually a refutation to an article entitled, "Paul, The Good, The Bad, The Ugly", as well as other accusations not found in that article. Hopefully, this refutation will prepare you to discern the truth of the matter.

The foundation of the belief that Paul is a false Apostle lies in the inability to harmonize Paul with the rest of the Bible. Rather than waiting on Yahweh to provide understanding concerning Paul's writings, the anti-Paulists prefer to simply dismiss his writings as those of a false teacher. Peter warned us that this would happen.

2 Peter 3:15,16 reads, "And account that the longsuffering of our Master is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Conveniently, however, anti-Paulists would say that the second epistle of Peter was not written by the Apostle Peter and therefore should not be part of our current New Testament canon. This reveals the extent that they will go. They would discard the entire epistle in order to get rid of two verses in support of Paul. The fact is that no one knows for sure that Peter did not write this second epistle. At this point in time it is simply a theory. I offer two sources which defend Peter as the author of the second epistle; 1 , 2.
Wayne

Clear Spring, MD

#11 May 29, 2008
Again, here is the link to the article. This is very important I feel for there are some trying to deny Books of the Holy Bible by denying brother Paul. It is a VERY important IMHO. But as always, it's up to you to decide.

http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro/Paul.html

“The Great Druid”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#12 May 29, 2008
Beyondhyperbole wrote:
<quoted text>
What law do you claim is still in effect?
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I suspect that you may say But all was fulfilled on the cross.

Have the dead risen and been judge before the throne of God?

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

Has the throne of God and of the Lamb descended from heaven and there is no more curse? And even after this Gods law will continue to be in effect until Heaven and Earth pass away.

Have Heaven and Earth passed away?

If these things have not happened the teaching that when Christ said "it is finished" must not be referring to the saying "till all be fulfilled."

Since: May 08

United States

#13 May 29, 2008
Wayne wrote:
Again, here is the link to the article. This is very important I feel for there are some trying to deny Books of the Holy Bible by denying brother Paul. It is a VERY important IMHO. But as always, it's up to you to decide.
http://www.intergate.com/~jcordaro/Paul.html
I agree Wayne and thanks for the link!

zazenmind

Since: Sep 07

tampa

#14 May 30, 2008
Most of what is written about Jesus and those statements written in the bible that claim he said them was fabricated by others, many years after his death, the writers peter, luke, mathew and mark never wrote anything these names were used as authors, because it was the name of some his closes followers, but they did not write any of the new testament, which was past down as legend through time...Which is the reason the counsel in Rome was held to craft the myths and legend of Jesus, that were put together by Paul, and grew through hearsay among the people...WAKE UP..You cant even get the civil war history or pearl harbor or 911 right yet, but you are going to believe everything that was past down orally, and then later written and published by the corrupt religious and political authority for power, for controlling the believers, with fear and mythical propaganda...AND YOU THINK YOU UNDERSTAND LIFE, NO YOU ARE READING DEAD MYTH, TRYING TO RELIVE THEM IN THE PRESENT, BECAUSE YOUR MINDS HAVE BEEN COLONIZED AND DULLED WITH VAIN REPITITION...WAKE UP..
Logic

San Antonio, TX

#15 May 30, 2008
Mechanic45 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, this should be fun.
Nice to see you again, Logic.
Still trying to play the Devil's apprentice, I see.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus' answer (By Luke's account)
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
So if the Law then was NOT fulfilled, and yet still in effect, consider that the penelty for blasphemy...is death.
Does that appeal to you?
Last time I checked, heaven and earth haven't passed yet (earth I can assure for sure at least), so what Jesus said remains in effect. And none of you opposing Hot Gospelers answered my question...who was Jesus speaking about in the verses I cited? Be honest, was Jesus just talking gibberish? Of course not. He was predicting that there would be those who taught not to follow the law and commandments...and who taught not to follow the law and commandments? Yes, it was Paul.
Logic

San Antonio, TX

#16 May 30, 2008
Wayne wrote:
No, he was NOT a false Apostle. Peter, James and John gave him and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship because they discerned the Spirit that sent them. Peter even gave Paul credentials when he called Pauls writings scripture.The ones that have trouble with Paul are as Peter says, wresting the scriptures to their own destruction. You have trouble with Pauls writings? Then YOU are the one with the problem.
I guess you failed to read how Peter and James rejected Paul because he taught circumcision was of no concern.
Wayne

Clear Spring, MD

#17 May 30, 2008
Logic wrote:
<quoted text>I guess you failed to read how Peter and James rejected Paul because he taught circumcision was of no concern.
Chapter and verse please. Chances are you misunderstood it.
Wayne

Clear Spring, MD

#18 May 30, 2008
No Fear 1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree Wayne and thanks for the link!
You're welcome.
Wayne

Clear Spring, MD

#19 May 30, 2008
Logic wrote:
<quoted text>Last time I checked, heaven and earth haven't passed yet (earth I can assure for sure at least), so what Jesus said remains in effect. And none of you opposing Hot Gospelers answered my question...who was Jesus speaking about in the verses I cited? Be honest, was Jesus just talking gibberish? Of course not. He was predicting that there would be those who taught not to follow the law and commandments...and who taught not to follow the law and commandments? Yes, it was Paul.
It would do you good to check out those links I gave you. Warning though, they make good, sound biblical sense. Something YOU are not used to and refuse to see.
Mark

Somerset, NJ

#20 May 30, 2008
Logic wrote:
<quoted text>I guess you failed to read how Peter and James rejected Paul because he taught circumcision was of no concern.
Actually, in Acts 15 it was Peter who spoke to the Christians in Jerusalem and make the statement that circumcision was not necessary. However, I believe it was in Acts 2 or 3 that it was Paul who convinced Peter that circumcision was not necessary after Peter thought it was.
Mark

Somerset, NJ

#21 May 30, 2008
Logic wrote:
<quoted text>I guess you failed to read how Peter and James rejected Paul because he taught circumcision was of no concern.
Actually, in Acts 15 it was Peter who spoke to the Christians in Jerusalem and made the statement that circumcision was not necessary. However, I believe it was in Acts 2 or 3 that it was Paul who convinced Peter that circumcision was not necessary after Peter thought it was.

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