"IF" Jesus Isn't God Explain This

"IF" Jesus Isn't God Explain This

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buck

AOL

#1 Apr 24, 2014
When Jesus was being tempted of the devil in the wilderness after
fasting 40 days. Jesus said to the devil, "Thou shalt not tempt the
Lord thy God". hmmm
God was "in" Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.
It was God in Jesus doing the works, the miracles and changing
people's lives. John chapter 14:10,11.
Jesus said, I and my Father are "one".
this is why Jesus said if you had known me, you should have known
my Father ALSO. and Jesus went further to say, and from this time
forth you know Him and have SEEN Him. John chapter 14:7
God is "invisible", the only way for man to see Him was for God
to have a body of flesh. God was manifest in the flesh, seen of
angels, received up into glory, hmmm 1 Timothy 3:16
Flygerian

Arlington, TX

#2 Apr 24, 2014
John 17
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent

Notice how he was praying to his father and then says in verse 3

"Now this is eternal life: that they know YOU, the ONLY TRUE GOD, AND Jesus christ whom YOU (the Only True God) have sent."

Doesnt sound like he claimed to be God unless he was confused. Another one to consider:

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Now obviously, we cannot do greater works than God right?

“theholychristian church.com”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#3 Apr 24, 2014
buck wrote:
When Jesus was being tempted of the devil in the wilderness after
fasting 40 days. Jesus said to the devil, "Thou shalt not tempt the
Lord thy God". hmmm
God was "in" Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.
It was God in Jesus doing the works, the miracles and changing
people's lives. John chapter 14:10,11.
Jesus said, I and my Father are "one".
this is why Jesus said if you had known me, you should have known
my Father ALSO. and Jesus went further to say, and from this time
forth you know Him and have SEEN Him. John chapter 14:7
God is "invisible", the only way for man to see Him was for God
to have a body of flesh. God was manifest in the flesh, seen of
angels, received up into glory, hmmm 1 Timothy 3:16
Nothing has to be explained. Jesus isn't God: PERIOD!

Jesus said: THE SON IS LIKE THE FATHER.
Jesus never said: THE SON IS THE FATHER.

For if the son is the father then how can he sit at the right hand of the father?

Don't create nonsensical situations like the churches do: Jesus is the son of God, bestowed with such high authority that, to us: he is like God. And that's all he said.

ONE INTERPRETATION SON LIKE THE FATHER
There is only one interpretation of the bible and not two! There are 500+ idiotic interpretations from the brains of conmen and fools: but these are not christians.
If you understand metaphors then you understand that the quote is a metaphor:
De sherrif says to the crook: I am the law! I tell you that you have breached the law and so you are arrested! Then the offender is taken in and brought to the court - the law, to be conflicted. Why does the sherrif not confict him, if he is the law?
Both quotes are right: The son is like the father does not denote that the son IS the father: ain't that right? Fools can read much, but they can not understand: for they were born to be fools!

http://www.theholychristianchurch.com
buck

AOL

#4 Apr 24, 2014
Truth is you can't explain it, you proved it by what you stated in
your reply.
I truly believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but if He is not God
in human flesh, explain why He said what He said.
Throughout the OT, God was the Saviour for all men, Jesus was not
mentioned as Saviour. Now Jesus is born and read about in the NT and
is the Saviour of all men. Two Saviours ?
Jesus thought it not robbery to be "equal" with God, how can He
be equal with God if He is not God?
Can any be equal with God?
espy

Richmond, VA

#5 Apr 25, 2014
buck wrote:
Truth is you can't explain it, you proved it by what you stated in
your reply.
I truly believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but if He is not God
in human flesh, explain why He said what He said.
Throughout the OT, God was the Saviour for all men, Jesus was not
mentioned as Saviour. Now Jesus is born and read about in the NT and
is the Saviour of all men. Two Saviours ?
Jesus thought it not robbery to be "equal" with God, how can He
be equal with God if He is not God?
Can any be equal with God?
In Zechariah 14:4,5, it reads, And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives..........and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Seems to me that Zechariah is speaking about the second coming of Jesus Christ [Matt. 24:30,31, And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.]. An interesting note: In the book of Revelation, Jesus is called The Word of God{Rev. 19:13} and the glory of God{Rev. 21:23}, thus, His glory and His word are His and His alone.
buck

AOL

#6 Apr 26, 2014
Luke 4:8 and Matthew 4:10 state we are to "Woship God only Him serve".
but in Matthew 2:11 the wise men worshipped Jesus as a child.
Jesus was woshipped says Matthew 14:33 and Matthew 28:9 and 17.
but some doubted as they still doubt today.
John 20:28, Jesus did not correct or rebuke Thomas for calling Him
"my Lord and my God".
Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, All power is given unto me in heaven and
in earth.
Hebrews 1:8, God says to the Son, "Thy Throne O God is for ever and
ever" and in verse 6 prior, it says, "let all the angels of God worship Him"
yes worship Jesus. We call Jesus Lord, God is Lord also, do we
have case of 2 Lords? of course not, the Bible says that there is
"one" Lord, not 2 says Ehpesians 4:5.
buck

AOL

#7 Apr 26, 2014
Interesting point you brought up espy concerning Rev. 19:13.
John 1:1 says that God is the Word.
John 1:14 and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
Just as Jesus told His disciples in John 14, If you had known me, you
would have known my Father also. The Son and the Father are "one".
and Zechariah 14:5 is another interesting point as well.
Jude 14 mentions he Lord coming with his saints.
1 Thessalonians 4 says the Lord will bring those that sleep in Him
with Him; God will bring with Him.
but Matthew 24:39 mentions the coming of the Son of man which
refers to Jesus. How many Lords are returning 1 or 2 ?
It's clear that it's only "one Lord" returning.
Revelation 22:20 says, "He which testifieth these things saith,
Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come Lord Jesus.
How much clearer did Jesus make it to His disciple when He said,
If you've seen me, you have seen the Father.
the disciples wanted satisfaction to see both Jesus and the Father.
Jesus said to them, "have I been so long time with you and you still
do not know me" John 14 says this. Happy reading :)
espy

Richmond, VA

#8 Apr 26, 2014
buck wrote:
Interesting point you brought up espy concerning Rev. 19:13.
John 1:1 says that God is the Word.
John 1:14 and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
In John 12:44, it says, Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. In other words, If you believe in God's Word, you believe in God. Job said in 19:25,26, For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God. Three things: 1) Jesus stated in John that God was a spirit and no man had seen Him except the Son of man and yet Job states that he will see God with his eyes physically standing on the earth in the future. 2) Job believed in a bodily resurrection. 3) Hebrews 10:5 says, Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me {verse 10 tells you whose body}. Rejection of the Creator's Word is rejecting the Creator. Only acceptance of the Creator's Word reconciles the creature to its Creator - It is that simple.
Flygerian

Fort Worth, TX

#9 Apr 26, 2014
buck wrote:
Luke 4:8 and Matthew 4:10 state we are to "Woship God only Him serve".
but in Matthew 2:11 the wise men worshipped Jesus as a child.
Jesus was woshipped says Matthew 14:33 and Matthew 28:9 and 17.
but some doubted as they still doubt today.
John 20:28, Jesus did not correct or rebuke Thomas for calling Him
"my Lord and my God".
Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, All power is given unto me in heaven and
in earth.
Hebrews 1:8, God says to the Son, "Thy Throne O God is for ever and
ever" and in verse 6 prior, it says, "let all the angels of God worship Him"
yes worship Jesus. We call Jesus Lord, God is Lord also, do we
have case of 2 Lords? of course not, the Bible says that there is
"one" Lord, not 2 says Ehpesians 4:5.
Going by your logic (though you avoided my post earlier in the thread only to say "no one can explain it) Nebuchadnezzar is God too.

Daniel 2:46
Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.

Or how about the captain of God Almighty's army?
Joshua 5:14
And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
15
The commander of the Lord’s army replied,“Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.

So by your logic we're supposed to worship these beings as well as Jesus? Nah. I'll worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob instead. Abraham didnt worship a being named Jesus did he?

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#10 Apr 26, 2014
buck wrote:
When Jesus was being tempted of the devil in the wilderness after
fasting 40 days. Jesus said to the devil, "Thou shalt not tempt the
Lord thy God". hmmm
God was "in" Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.
It was God in Jesus doing the works, the miracles and changing
people's lives. John chapter 14:10,11.
Jesus said, I and my Father are "one".
this is why Jesus said if you had known me, you should have known
my Father ALSO. and Jesus went further to say, and from this time
forth you know Him and have SEEN Him. John chapter 14:7
God is "invisible", the only way for man to see Him was for God
to have a body of flesh. God was manifest in the flesh, seen of
angels, received up into glory, hmmm 1 Timothy 3:16
Hi buck. You should not rely on 1 Timothy 3:16. It is a corruption. The actual text is "who", referring to Christ, "was manifest in the flesh".

“theholychristian church.com”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#11 Apr 26, 2014
buck wrote:
Truth is you can't explain it, you proved it by what you stated in
your reply.
I truly believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but if He is not God
in human flesh, explain why He said what He said.
Throughout the OT, God was the Saviour for all men, Jesus was not
mentioned as Saviour. Now Jesus is born and read about in the NT and
is the Saviour of all men. Two Saviours ?
Jesus thought it not robbery to be "equal" with God, how can He
be equal with God if He is not God?
Can any be equal with God?
You either can't read or you're a fool for understanding!

Jesus said: the son is LIKE the father, meaning he has such high authority from God that to us he is like God him self, for nobody else has such authority!
buck

AOL

#12 Apr 27, 2014
The only thing that I am hearing is "excuses" and nothing solid from
those who reply. And calling me a fool of understanding doesn't
help either. Yes I can read, maybe you're the one who cannot
interpret scripture proper Cliff09, ever think that. Don't be so self -
righteous to think others are always wrong.
1 Timothy 3:16 is not corrupt, this is how the text was translated to
the english language. and if it was translated from the original text to
another language like Spanish or German the words would not be
exact either. You should know that every language interprets similar, but not exactly alike in words.
And to say that scripture in 1 Timothy is corrupt is saying the Bible is fowl, and many would disagree that the Bible is corrupt.
Any man could say any scripture is corrupt, some say the whole
Bible is false, sounds like you're joining those ranks 15th Dalai Lama.
Let's face facts, none of you can give a satisfactory answer.

“theholychristian church.com”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#13 Apr 27, 2014
buck wrote:
The only thing that I am hearing is "excuses" and nothing solid from
those who reply. And calling me a fool of understanding doesn't
help either. Yes I can read, maybe you're the one who cannot
interpret scripture proper Cliff09, ever think that. Don't be so self -
righteous to think others are always wrong.
1 Timothy 3:16 is not corrupt, this is how the text was translated to
the english language. and if it was translated from the original text to
another language like Spanish or German the words would not be
exact either. You should know that every language interprets similar, but not exactly alike in words.
And to say that scripture in 1 Timothy is corrupt is saying the Bible is fowl, and many would disagree that the Bible is corrupt.
Any man could say any scripture is corrupt, some say the whole
Bible is false, sounds like you're joining those ranks 15th Dalai Lama.
Let's face facts, none of you can give a satisfactory answer.
I for one, ever said that Timothy is in anyway corrupt. So you can't read and you speak as if you are a wise man, yet you are speaking foolishly, thus exposing your self a FOOL.

Anyone who can read can read that Jesus is NOT God.

Jesus said: the son is LIKE THE FATHER. Is everything clear now???
JOH 10: 30 I and my Father are one.( this is a metaphorical quotation, not to be understood lterally).

Jesus is NOT God, as he tells you very clearly! So, only fools can't understand:
JOH 5: 19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Take this one literally and words can be turned into flesh:
John 1:1 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
buck

AOL

#14 Apr 28, 2014
If you read what I said properly Ms Cliff09 you could distinguish that I
addressed both you and 15th Dalai Lama. hmm maybe you're the one
who cannot read properly LOL
yes, you're right, you never stated that the verse in Timothy was
corrupt, that was said by 15th Dalai Lama.
Many churches all around the globe believe that Jesus was God
in human form.
You cannot say that John 10:30 is a metaphore, else how many
other verses could be explained away as such. What truth would
there be if you could not take scripture literally for what it says for
the most part anyway. Thou shalt not lie, or steal, or covet; how
can one not take these commandments literally, or any other.
You take the scripture literally that says Jesus is the Son of God.
I do not doubt that Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is the flesh part
but God is the Spirit within Jesus as He said. God was in Christ
reconciling the world unto Himself. It was God doing the works,
the miracles, Jesus did them with the "finger of God".
John 14:10, 11 Jesus made it clear who was "in" Him doing the
works. God cannot be seen, he is "invisible".
I was right from the start, no one can explain the scriptures that
Jesus and God are the same, they are "one". this is why if you
know Jesus, you know God also.

“theholychristian church.com”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#15 Apr 28, 2014
buck wrote:
If you read what I said properly Ms Cliff09 you could distinguish that I
addressed both you and 15th Dalai Lama. hmm maybe you're the one

You cannot say that John 10:30 is a metaphore,

works. God cannot be seen, he is "invisible".
I was right from the start, no one can explain the scriptures that
Jesus and God are the same, they are "one". this is why if you
know Jesus, you know God also.
Here you go again, after creating a very questionable subject line.

John 10:30 is a metaphor, else Jesus IS God: and he just tells you that he is not.

( HERE JUSUS SAYS HE IS NOT GOD )

JOH 10: 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

( HERE HE SAYS THAT THEY ARE ONE ) Metaphorically.

JOH 10: 30 I and my Father are one.

All Christians are one in spirit; one in Christ Jesus: does this mean that all Christians are the same person? Stop this silly argument, please and get on with it.

http://www.theholychristianchurch.com/baptism...
espy

Richmond, VA

#18 Apr 28, 2014
Cliff09 wrote:
<quoted text>
Here you go again, after creating a very questionable subject line.
John 10:30 is a metaphor, else Jesus IS God: and he just tells you that he is not.
( HERE JUSUS SAYS HE IS NOT GOD )
JOH 10: 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
( HERE HE SAYS THAT THEY ARE ONE ) Metaphorically.
JOH 10: 30 I and my Father are one.
All Christians are one in spirit; one in Christ Jesus: does this mean that all Christians are the same person? Stop this silly argument, please and get on with it.
http://www.theholychristianchurch.com/baptism...
Are you saying that there are not any proofs in the Old and New Testaments that Jesus is Deity?
Flygerian

Dallas, TX

#19 Apr 28, 2014
buck wrote:
The only thing that I am hearing is "excuses" and nothing solid from
those who reply.
If this was the case then why havent you replied to my 2 posts that blows your belief out of the water?

“Keep your eyes on Israel”

Since: Sep 09

Location hidden

#22 Apr 28, 2014
If Jesus isn't God explain this.

Exodus 33 is an interesting. We see God appear to Moses twice in this one chapter.

In the second appearance we read:

Exodus 33:20-23
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

20 But my face,” he continued,“you cannot see, because a human being cannot look at me and remain alive. 21 Here,” he said,“is a place near me; stand on the rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you inside a crevice in the rock and cover you with my hand, until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand, and you will see my back, but my face is not to be seen.”

NO MAN including MOSES CAN LOOK UPON GOD......RIGHT?

But in the very same chapter we read in the first appearance of God:

Exodus 33:11
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

11 Adonai (One of the Hebrew word for God) would speak to Moshe (Moses) face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. Then he would return to the camp; but the young man who was his assistant, Y’hoshua (Joshua) the son of Nun, never left the inside of the tent.

FACE TO FACE AS A MAN SPEAKS TO A FRIEND! WHO IS THIS GOD then that can be see and spoken to face to face? He is the Second Person of the Triune God (Jesus before His Incarnation) who is speaking to Moses and He is the same God as the God who spoke to Moses and said he could not look upon His face and live.
espy

Richmond, VA

#23 Apr 28, 2014
I seeJesus wrote:
If Jesus isn't God explain this.
Exodus 33 is an interesting. We see God appear to Moses twice in this one chapter.
In the second appearance we read:
Exodus 33:20-23
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
20 But my face,” he continued,“you cannot see, because a human being cannot look at me and remain alive. 21 Here,” he said,“is a place near me; stand on the rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you inside a crevice in the rock and cover you with my hand, until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand, and you will see my back, but my face is not to be seen.”
NO MAN including MOSES CAN LOOK UPON GOD......RIGHT?
But in the very same chapter we read in the first appearance of God:
Exodus 33:11
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
11 Adonai (One of the Hebrew word for God) would speak to Moshe (Moses) face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. Then he would return to the camp; but the young man who was his assistant, Y’hoshua (Joshua) the son of Nun, never left the inside of the tent.
FACE TO FACE AS A MAN SPEAKS TO A FRIEND! WHO IS THIS GOD then that can be see and spoken to face to face? He is the Second Person of the Triune God (Jesus before His Incarnation) who is speaking to Moses and He is the same God as the God who spoke to Moses and said he could not look upon His face and live.
John 5:46,47 , For had ye believed in Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
comment

Ozark, MO

#24 Apr 28, 2014
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
If this was the case then why havent you replied to my 2 posts that blows your belief out of the water?
Perhaps he didn't answer your posts because they are not logical from a scriptural standpoint.

Your quotes asserting that Jesus wasn't God because he prayed to the Father, or that greater miracles were possible than what incarnate Jesus accomplished ignores the fact that Christ had set aside the privileges of divinity at his incarnation. Phil 2:6-8
As a man, he was obedient to the Father's wishes as a man, and prayed to the Father as all men should do.

What incarnate Jesus accomplished, he accomplished through his faith and the power of
the indwelling Spirit of God. It is not impossible that ordinary men could accomplish
those miracles through the power of that same Spirit dwelling in them. Scripture
indicates that the apostles, did in fact heal men miraculously after Jesus' ascension.

Not every act of reverence in scripture denotes the presence of a deity, recipients of
such acclaim also went to those who delivered the Word of God. That is what your
scriptural examples denote.

Your comment regarding Nebuchadnezzar demonstrate Daniel as the recipient, since the
dream that Daniel interpreted for him, was revelation, having to do with a prophecy
of the future coming of Jesus (the Rock). Nebuchadnezzar wasn't honoring Daniel for
being a god, but he was honoring him for being a messenger of God.
God had bestowed on Daniel.

Also of note, the Commander of the Lord's army, an angel, or perhaps Jesus, as a
theophany, was given reverence by Joshua for his bringing God's message. Joshua 5

The above seem to be Weak examples to assert that incarate Jesus was not God.
Especially in the context of all the other biblical scripture that assert that he
was just that.

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