Should Geography play a part in Salvation?

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JJJ

Surry Hills, Australia

#1 Jun 27, 2013
While I haven't got the exact stats, by far the majority of people that have or belong to a religious faith (active or not), belong to the same religion that were raised in, the religion of their parents and culture.

Many may change denominations within a faith, like Catholic to Methodist etc but by comparison those that convert to a completely different religion than the one they were raised in are very few.

People of the Jewish faith converting to say Christianity or Islam, Muslims converting to Buddhism, etc, these sort of conversions are definitely few when compared to the number of people that stay with the religion of their parents.

So if it is a fact that the majority of people stick to the religion of their parents (regardless of whether they are active in their religion or not) then this means that where they are born plays a major factor of the religion that they will grow up in.

I was raised in a majority Christian society, and while I'm not a Christian in a religious sense, I'm still influenced by the philosophy of Christianity, had I been born in Israel I'd probably belong to the Jewish religion or at least influenced by the Jewish religion.

So if it is true that there is only one god and that salvation depends on us believing in this one true god and following the doctrines of the one true faith......

Then really this would make this god if not a little racist.......definitely playing favouritism.

If as the majority of people on this forum believe, Christianity was the true religion and the only way to salvation was to express faith in Christ and the ransom.......

What of kids born in say India, kids that may never learn to read, may never leave their village and never meet a Christian?

Christians tell me that god will make sure that if a person deserves salvation he'll make sure they get the chance to hear the 'truth' and convert etc.... but how is it just that god has decreed that certain geographic locations have a better opportunity of salvation?

I've read that one of the four cardinal qualities of god is listed as justice..... how is just and fair that to a large degree, one's salvation pretty much depends on the geographic lottery of where they are born and raised?
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#2 Jun 27, 2013
JJJ wrote:
..... how is just and fair that to a large degree, one's salvation pretty much depends on the geographic lottery of where they are born and raised?
It is just and fair that geography is a factor in salvation, but it isn't the "where one is born and raised" but 'where one is standing' when judgment day comes.

One wants to be in the exact geographic location of salvation, the exact spot where one's salvation arrives.

Since there is no such thing as collective salvation, then each one of us is responsible for getting our individual self to the right spot for salvation.

Shall I loan you a compass?

“Hn.”

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#3 Jun 27, 2013
Hn....how weird this title is. Quite unusual to think that geography would play a part in a religion....but I suppose you see something new every day.
JJJ

Surry Hills, Australia

#4 Jun 27, 2013
SasukeUchiha96 wrote:
Hn....how weird this title is. Quite unusual to think that geography would play a part in a religion....but I suppose you see something new every day.
It seems obvious to me why geography plays a huge part in a religion....

Care to explain why you would think it is unusual?

Or have you made the comment because all you have read is the title of the thread?
JJJ

Surry Hills, Australia

#5 Jun 27, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
It is just and fair that geography is a factor in salvation, but it isn't the "where one is born and raised" but 'where one is standing' when judgment day comes.
One wants to be in the exact geographic location of salvation, the exact spot where one's salvation arrives.
Since there is no such thing as collective salvation, then each one of us is responsible for getting our individual self to the right spot for salvation.
Shall I loan you a compass?
Judgement day?? There is no such thing. The chapter in Corinthians dealing with love tells us that love does not keep a record of the wrong......

1John 4:8 tells us that god IS love...... and that being the case that means that god does not keep a record of the wrong and if this is true, if there is no record then pray tell...

What is there left to judge?

The only judgement we face is our own...... in that we will reap what we sow which of course is a simple way of stating one of the universal laws... cause and effect

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#6 Jun 27, 2013
"Should Geography play a part in Salvation?"
It does indeed.

Psalm 147:19-20 (NKJV)
19 He declares His word to Jacob, His statutes and His judgments to Israel. 20 He has not dealt thus with any nation; And as for His judgments, they have not known them. Praise the LORD!

“Have I offended you? ”

Since: Jan 11

My heart bleeds..NOT

#7 Jun 27, 2013
SasukeUchiha96 wrote:
Hn....how weird this title is. Quite unusual to think that geography would play a part in a religion....but I suppose you see something new every day.
There are not many Christians in Afghanistan.

“ IT'S A CHOICE !!!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#8 Jun 27, 2013
DemonSeed wrote:
<quoted text>
There are not many Christians in Afghanistan.
I kinda have to agree with you on that...

“Have I offended you? ”

Since: Jan 11

My heart bleeds..NOT

#9 Jun 27, 2013
Snevaeh legna wrote:
<quoted text>
I kinda have to agree with you on that...
Geographical location does impact on what we believe. So do lots of other things.

“ IT'S A CHOICE !!!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#10 Jun 27, 2013
DemonSeed wrote:
<quoted text>
Geographical location does impact on what we believe. So do lots of other things.
While that may be true, we still have a choice. May I ask what are the other factors?

“Have I offended you? ”

Since: Jan 11

My heart bleeds..NOT

#11 Jun 28, 2013
Snevaeh legna wrote:
<quoted text>
While that may be true, we still have a choice.
A native of Afghanistan does not have much choice. Neither do the children of fundie Christians. Having choices means being able to make a decision without some threatening idiot sticking their nose in because they do not agree with you.
Snevaeh legna wrote:
<quoted text>
May I ask what are the other factors?
Family, friends, schooling, environment. We are all influenced by the events around us.

Since: Aug 08

Somewhere in Ireland

#12 Jun 28, 2013
DemonSeed wrote:
<quoted text>
There are not many Christians in Afghanistan.
I don't find it too hard to imagine that if many of the fundies who post here had been born in Afghanistan that they would now be active members of the Taliban!

“Have I offended you? ”

Since: Jan 11

My heart bleeds..NOT

#13 Jun 28, 2013
par five wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't find it too hard to imagine that if many of the fundies who post here had been born in Afghanistan that they would now be active members of the Taliban!
Without a doubt. They would look somewhat different to their Islamic counterparts though. Don't forget, Americans have perfect teeth.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh60/beaut...
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#14 Jun 28, 2013
DemonSeed wrote:
<quoted text>
A native of Afghanistan does not have much choice. Neither do the children of fundie Christians. Having choices means being able to make a decision without some threatening idiot sticking their nose in because they do not agree with you.
<quoted text>
Family, friends, schooling, environment. We are all influenced by the events around us.
Don't neglect history.
Christianity reigned in Afghanistan before there was any Islam.
It's only been in the recent decade or so that Muslims have eradicated Christianity from Islamic countries by persecution and murder.

But Christianity still survives underground in Islamic countries, so there is no reason to think one can't decide to follow the Jesus Christ wherever they are born.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#15 Jun 28, 2013
DemonSeed wrote:
<quoted text>
Without a doubt. They would look somewhat different to their Islamic counterparts though. Don't forget, Americans have perfect teeth.
Bad teeth could just mean one is English or being insured by Obamacare.
The lack of a mono-brow is the real giveaway.

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#16 Jun 28, 2013
The Bible tells us a couple of things concerning this one.
One is found in Romans 2:
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Then also we have the parable of the sheep and goats, which really is just about being a righteous person, doing good works, including for others, and receiving a just reward for doing so:
37 “Then the righteous will answer him,‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply,‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left,‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer,‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply,‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

Best of all, what all of us have is a Moral Conscience, which really is the Voice of God and, if we heed our Moral Conscience and follow it, we follow God's Voice.

God will judge all based on the amount of light received by them during their lifetime and how they heeded it.

Can an atheist receive salvation?
Yep
Can a Buddhist Monk receive salvation?
Yep

Etc.

These are my beliefs.
I believe in an all powerful, all loving, all knowing, all merciful, endlessly Just God.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#17 Jun 28, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
..........
Best of all, what all of us have is a Moral Conscience, which really is the Voice of God and, if we heed our Moral Conscience and follow it, we follow God's Voice.

God will judge all based on the amount of light received by them during their lifetime and how they heeded it.

Can an atheist receive salvation?
Yep
Can a Buddhist Monk receive salvation?
Yep
Etc.
These are my beliefs.

I believe in an all powerful, all loving, all knowing, all merciful, endlessly Just God.
Agreed.
I lay you even money that Mahatma Gandhi gets through the Pearly Gates easier than Nancy Pelosi.
And Nancy claims to be Catholic.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#18 Jun 28, 2013
Nettiebelle wrote:
I believe in an all powerful, all loving, all knowing, all merciful, endlessly Just God.
You certainly don't believe in the Savior Jesus of the Bible.

Matthew 24:37-39 (NKJV)
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

“Have I offended you? ”

Since: Jan 11

My heart bleeds..NOT

#19 Jun 28, 2013
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't neglect history.
Christianity reigned in Afghanistan before there was any Islam.
I never claimed otherwise. Islam came about because Mohammed wanted an army. He 'borrowed' bits of Christianity to create his own fairy tales.
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
It's only been in the recent decade or so that Muslims have eradicated Christianity from Islamic countries by persecution and murder.
Of course Christianity has never taken this approach with other cultures, right?
Cisco Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
But Christianity still survives underground in Islamic countries, so there is no reason to think one can't decide to follow the Jesus Christ wherever they are born.
I agree, apart from a high probability of violent death, there is nothing to prevent people following Christianity in Islamic countries. As I said in my previous post, we are all influenced by the events around us.
Cisco Kid

Modesto, CA

#20 Jun 28, 2013
DemonSeed wrote:
<quoted text>
I never claimed otherwise. Islam came about because Mohammed wanted an army. He 'borrowed' bits of Christianity to create his own fairy tales.
Good call.
Islam is plagiarized from Judaism, Christianity and some Arab nomad myths.
Mohamed also threw a little perversity provision justification in there to justify his lifestyle.
DemonSeed wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course Christianity has never taken this approach with other cultures, right?
Of course.
DemonSeed wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree, apart from a high probability of violent death, there is nothing to prevent people following Christianity in Islamic countries. As I said in my previous post, we are all influenced by the events around us.
One can be influenced to a certain point.
That is why God endowed us with free will.

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