Should religion play a role in politics?
little lamb

South Yarra, Australia

#48 Sep 22, 2013
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
No caesar has nothing to do with god in a secular nation...nothing to do with god in rome. You may practice your religions in our secular nation, but you may NOT run my government as your church.
nothing new under the sun...its all been done before

Even your cry ' my government'

Same cry the crowds yelled out to Pilate in rejection of Christ

" We have no God but Caesar [political power]

Sceptical_Mal

“Born again atheist”

Since: Jun 12

Melbourne

#49 Sep 23, 2013
Sceptical Mal wrote:
<quoted text>So your sick momma can have sex with your dog. Got it freak.
You're the freak with zero friends, zero brains and zero idea.

Loser.

Sceptical_Mal

“Born again atheist”

Since: Jun 12

Melbourne

#50 Sep 23, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>So Who is Sunset?
Every single aliases and post Doc make has a familiar stench about it that reveals itself to me.

There are certain signs and the freak just can't hide.

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#51 Sep 23, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
nothing new under the sun...its all been done before
Even your cry ' my government'
Same cry the crowds yelled out to Pilate in rejection of Christ
" We have no God but Caesar [political power]
Yeah, and how'd that work out for Christ?

You just don't get it, do you? Your attempts to create a theocracy have failed.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#52 Sep 23, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Never said we ignore Caesar..
said we must give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar..
and what belongs to Caesar is upholding gods Law and punishing Law offenders and being Gods servants to minister to Gods people..
that is why we are told to pay taxes, so they can build roads and other public services
But the word of God says " We only have one Lawmaker..and that is God...we don't give Caesar what belongs to God ..and THE LAW belongs to God.
God has put no man in his seat to be God and make Laws to break his Law.
James 4:12
'There is only one Lawgiver and Judge
People saw what happened when government enforces the Christian "God's" law for 1400 years in Europe. When it came to establishing a new government in the new world they did it in such a way that goverment is prohibited from enforcing any god's law. Many countries throughout the world saw how well that worked and followed suite.

"Experience witnesses that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." – James Madison
little lamb

South Yarra, Australia

#53 Sep 23, 2013
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, and how'd that work out for Christ?
You just don't get it, do you? Your attempts to create a theocracy have failed.
What you don't understand, is that a government , is over people...and whether you like it or not , people are beings with hearts and minds..

and godly people don't go with laws that break the laws of God

Christians are not about setting up any sort of government...that is not what we are about for we believe God is going to set up a Kingdom that will last forever

Total different way of thinking then you have...but we are to speak out and resist unjust law...and remind governments that there is a higher authority over them.
little lamb

South Yarra, Australia

#54 Sep 23, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
People saw what happened when government enforces the Christian "God's" law for 1400 years in Europe. When it came to establishing a new government in the new world they did it in such a way that goverment is prohibited from enforcing any god's law. Many countries throughout the world saw how well that worked and followed suite.
"Experience witnesses that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." – James Madison
I would agree there is a big difference between ecclesiastical systems and God himself..

And in the Nuremberg trials ...just following orders was not accepted as a valid excuse for genocide..for the court recognized a higher Law that affects the conscience of all men.

So the conscience of a human being is a valid reason to defy unjust orders, from any authority....and courts have recognized this even in secular courts.

It is how Ghandi pushed the British Empire out of India.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#55 Sep 23, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
I would agree there is a big difference between ecclesiastical systems and God himself..
And in the Nuremberg trials ...just following orders was not accepted as a valid excuse for genocide..for the court recognized a higher Law that affects the conscience of all men.
So the conscience of a human being is a valid reason to defy unjust orders, from any authority....and courts have recognized this even in secular courts.
It is how Ghandi pushed the British Empire out of India.
If your "God" would show "Himself" in the real world and make the necessary judgements to maintain order in our society we would not have to rely on the judgement of ordinary human beings. However since your "God" refuses to show "Himself" we have to rely on human government and we have to keep human beings who think they know the will of "God" from imposing their will on others. If your "God" wants to impose his judgement after we die so be it.

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#56 Sep 23, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
If your "God" would show "Himself" in the real world and make the necessary judgements to maintain order in our society we would not have to rely on the judgement of ordinary human beings. However since your "God" refuses to show "Himself" we have to rely on human government and we have to keep human beings who think they know the will of "God" from imposing their will on others. If your "God" wants to impose his judgement after we die so be it.
Absolutely. The God created in a guy's mind who thinks that his god talks to him is no more than a person trying to gain power.

Those who don't see the power of the bible is NOT in the words, but in the meanings, as too scary to listen to, IMHO.

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#58 Sep 23, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
What you don't understand, is that a government , is over people...and whether you like it or not , people are beings with hearts and minds..
and godly people don't go with laws that break the laws of God
Christians are not about setting up any sort of government...that is not what we are about for we believe God is going to set up a Kingdom that will last forever
Total different way of thinking then you have...but we are to speak out and resist unjust law...and remind governments that there is a higher authority over them.
Then you are picking and choosing the one law which says to give the government its rule and give god your soul?

What YOU don't understand that governments create rules..and NOT allowing religion to be endorsed by our government is one of our FIRST rules.

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#59 Sep 23, 2013
Sunset Films wrote:
<quoted text>ATHEISM AND SECULARISM ARE RELIGIONS AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. You athitards just want to deny it now so your mind screws do not become apparent.
Do be car Columbus did not discover jack. You are dumb. Columbus made four voyages and the first one in 1492 was when he land in Haiti. In 1498 he landed in South America.
As for the discovery, when can break that into two parts, European ignorance and actual history. As for European ignorance, it was Leif Erickson in 1001 who lessened European ignorance when he came to North America.
As for actualy discovery per se, it was the black African Olmecs who discovery America in 5300 BC and what we now call Mexico.
Not at all at word game, idiot. Mexico is in North America and Mexicans and all from North, Latin and South America are Americans. What they all are not are US citizens. The word game was when white Europeans decided to highjack the word Americans and then they also further compounded white ignorance by calling Native Americans Indians.
ATHEISM AND SECULARISM is a religion. No matter how much you retarded secular atheist try to deny it and whine and puke about it. Playing your silly and stupid atheist secular games, get over it.
Actually, idiot if you read the actual history of the Founding Fathers, you know, real books, you would know that religious state determination is what they were all about. They denounced the idea of a national predetermined religion, in favor of state ordained structured religions. IN fact, fool, the idea of states and the division as such was purely a religious thing. In fact, all state representatives had to be acting members of the state religion. Too further enlighten you, the conflict around Missouri and Kansas and slave and free states were ones of Mormon, Puritan, Baptist, Catholic and Unitarian religions. All of the above are religions, but Christianity itself is not.
You want Christianity to be a religion, so that you can X of Christ and see it as Xianity. SORRY, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SCREAM, WIGGLE AND POUT, IT IS CHRIST----in it or CHRIST-ianity.
Don't worry, not even a flying monkey can erase your stupid pig brain. You are stuck on stupid in the brain.
You are going to have to do better than your lame high school level history, or as smart people call it, Hysteria for Dummies.
No, religion is a belief in a deity..there's no diety in Atheism...and secularism has no religion in it.

"atheism
noun (Concise Encyclopedia)

Critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or divine beings. Unlike agnosticism, which leaves open the question of whether there is a God, atheism is a positive denial. It is rooted in an array of philosophical systems. Ancient Greek philosophers such as Democritus and Epicurus argued for it in the context of materialism. In the 18th century David Hume and Immanuel Kant, though not atheists, argued against traditional proofs for God's existence, making belief a matter of faith alone. Atheists such as Ludwig Feuerbach held that God was a projection of human ideals and that recognizing this fiction made self-realization possible. Marxism exemplified modern materialism. Beginning with Friedrich Nietzsche, existentialist atheism proclaimed the death of God and the human freedom to determine value and meaning. Logical positivism holds that propositions concerning the existence or nonexistence of God are nonsensical or meaningless.
" Merriam online

"sec·u·lar·ism
noun \&#712;se-ky&#601;-l &#601;-&#716;ri-z& #601;m\

: the belief that religion should not play a role in government, education, or other public parts of society
"

So, that's not a religion, either.
little lamb

South Yarra, Australia

#60 Sep 23, 2013
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you are picking and choosing the one law which says to give the government its rule and give god your soul?
What YOU don't understand that governments create rules..and NOT allowing religion to be endorsed by our government is one of our FIRST rules.
No governments are to uphold God Law, because all authority exists because it is God that places them in their relative position.

An authority that becomes a Law unto itself is a dictator..

No longer serving but demanding and oppressing
little lamb

South Yarra, Australia

#61 Sep 23, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
If your "God" would show "Himself" in the real world and make the necessary judgements to maintain order in our society we would not have to rely on the judgement of ordinary human beings. However since your "God" refuses to show "Himself" we have to rely on human government and we have to keep human beings who think they know the will of "God" from imposing their will on others. If your "God" wants to impose his judgement after we die so be it.
Get out of line and he eventually shows himself...in destructive wind and fire .

For within every man is a conscience to know that 'LOVE' is the superior way...not debauchery or lust...and when a nation sears its conscience too much , you get a Sodom and Gomorrah affect on your society.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#62 Sep 24, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
Get out of line and he eventually shows himself...in destructive wind and fire .
For within every man is a conscience to know that 'LOVE' is the superior way...not debauchery or lust...and when a nation sears its conscience too much , you get a Sodom and Gomorrah affect on your society.
So you think natural disasters are the wrath of "God"? That's an old superstition. The problem is that natural disasters don't discriminate between good people that follow "God's law" and those that don't. Before science found out how lightning works superstitious religious people thought that it was the wrath of "God". Priests and ministers sent their bell ringers up to the church steeples to ring the bells during storms to appease "God's" anger. Many bell ringers were struck by lightning until we understood that lightning tends to strike the highest objects in the area and people should stay away from high objects and places during a storm.

Your superstitious thinking is one of the reasons why we don't want people in government who "think" they know the "will of God" imposing their superstions on everyone. Again if you look back at history you can see that government based on "God's law" as interpreted by the good Christians of the Holy Roman Empire was not a good thing.

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#63 Sep 24, 2013
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think natural disasters are the wrath of "God"? That's an old superstition. The problem is that natural disasters don't discriminate between good people that follow "God's law" and those that don't. Before science found out how lightning works superstitious religious people thought that it was the wrath of "God". Priests and ministers sent their bell ringers up to the church steeples to ring the bells during storms to appease "God's" anger. Many bell ringers were struck by lightning until we understood that lightning tends to strike the highest objects in the area and people should stay away from high objects and places during a storm.
Your superstitious thinking is one of the reasons why we don't want people in government who "think" they know the "will of God" imposing their superstions on everyone. Again if you look back at history you can see that government based on "God's law" as interpreted by the good Christians of the Holy Roman Empire was not a good thing.
I agree with this. Well put.

I would add, though, that we need people who have compassion for the poor and want to make sure ALL religions have a right to practice their beliefs.

“Vader2016!”

Since: Sep 10

The Deathstar

#64 Sep 24, 2013
Sunset Films wrote:
<quoted text>ATHEISM AND SECULARISM ARE RELIGIONS AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN.
Imagine a TV.

Turn the TV off.

Off is not a TV station.

Atheism has NOTHING to do with a religion.

Define: Religion
1) The belief in a god or in a group of gods
2) an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods
3) a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance:consumerism is the new religion

Antonyms of religion
atheism, godlessness

Define: Antonyms
a word opposite in meaning to another.

Go regurgitate your nonsense in another forum. Preferably one more on your level. I hear the Disney forums are open to adults as well.

“Vader2016!”

Since: Sep 10

The Deathstar

#65 Sep 24, 2013
Also,

http://thesaurus.com/browse/religious

Or you can see all the words you don't get to claim.

Atheism is a rejection of religion not a form of it.
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#66 Sep 24, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
What you don't understand, is that a government , is over people...and whether you like it or not , people are beings with hearts and minds..

and godly people don't go with laws that break the laws of God

Christians are not about setting up any sort of government...that is not what we are about for we believe God is going to set up a Kingdom that will last forever
Total different way of thinking then you have...but we are to speak out and resist unjust law...and remind governments that there is a higher authority over them.
So why do so many Xtians go to war, and do it gladly...? Most especially these days when we're not actually fighting any direct threat enemies...

I can guarantee that YOU disobey some of Gods laws to obey the Federal laws. Think real hard...you can do it..!
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#67 Sep 24, 2013
Sunset Films wrote:
<quoted text>ATHEISM AND SECULARISM ARE RELIGIONS AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. You athitards just want to deny it now so your mind screws do not become apparent.
Do be car Columbus did not discover jack. You are dumb. Columbus made four voyages and the first one in 1492 was when he land in Haiti. In 1498 he landed in South America.
As for the discovery, when can break that into two parts, European ignorance and actual history. As for European ignorance, it was Leif Erickson in 1001 who lessened European ignorance when he came to North America.
As for actualy discovery per se, it was the black African Olmecs who discovery America in 5300 BC and what we now call Mexico.
Not at all at word game, idiot. Mexico is in North America and Mexicans and all from North, Latin and South America are Americans. What they all are not are US citizens. The word game was when white Europeans decided to highjack the word Americans and then they also further compounded white ignorance by calling Native Americans Indians.
ATHEISM AND SECULARISM is a religion. No matter how much you retarded secular atheist try to deny it and whine and puke about it. Playing your silly and stupid atheist secular games, get over it.
Actually, idiot if you read the actual history of the Founding Fathers, you know, real books, you would know that religious state determination is what they were all about. They denounced the idea of a national predetermined religion, in favor of state ordained structured religions. IN fact, fool, the idea of states and the division as such was purely a religious thing. In fact, all state representatives had to be acting members of the state religion. Too further enlighten you, the conflict around Missouri and Kansas and slave and free states were ones of Mormon, Puritan, Baptist, Catholic and Unitarian religions. All of the above are religions, but Christianity itself is not.
You want Christianity to be a religion, so that you can X of Christ and see it as Xianity. SORRY, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SCREAM, WIGGLE AND POUT, IT IS CHRIST----in it or CHRIST-ianity.
Don't worry, not even a flying monkey can erase your stupid pig brain. You are stuck on stupid in the brain.
You are going to have to do better than your lame high school level history, or as smart people call it, Hysteria for Dummies.
No secularism and aatheism are NOT Religions. Mainly becuase there is nothing to worship, no books to rely on, and certainly no miracles of Holy men, or Super Beings to believe in.

I cant read the rest of your post, because YOU ARE DUMB. You lack the ability to form coherent sentences...I dont waste time reading the rantings of the near-illiterate.
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#68 Sep 24, 2013
Sunset Films wrote:
<quoted text>ATHEISM AND SECULARISM ARE RELIGIONS AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. You athitards just want to deny it now so your mind screws do not become apparent.
Do be car Columbus did not discover jack. You are dumb. Columbus made four voyages and the first one in 1492 was when he land in Haiti. In 1498 he landed in South America.
As for the discovery, when can break that into two parts, European ignorance and actual history. As for European ignorance, it was Leif Erickson in 1001 who lessened European ignorance when he came to North America.
As for actualy discovery per se, it was the black African Olmecs who discovery America in 5300 BC and what we now call Mexico.
Not at all at word game, idiot. Mexico is in North America and Mexicans and all from North, Latin and South America are Americans. What they all are not are US citizens. The word game was when white Europeans decided to highjack the word Americans and then they also further compounded white ignorance by calling Native Americans Indians.
ATHEISM AND SECULARISM is a religion. No matter how much you retarded secular atheist try to deny it and whine and puke about it. Playing your silly and stupid atheist secular games, get over it.
Actually, idiot if you read the actual history of the Founding Fathers, you know, real books, you would know that religious state determination is what they were all about. They denounced the idea of a national predetermined religion, in favor of state ordained structured religions. IN fact, fool, the idea of states and the division as such was purely a religious thing. In fact, all state representatives had to be acting members of the state religion. Too further enlighten you, the conflict around Missouri and Kansas and slave and free states were ones of Mormon, Puritan, Baptist, Catholic and Unitarian religions. All of the above are religions, but Christianity itself is not.
You want Christianity to be a religion, so that you can X of Christ and see it as Xianity. SORRY, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SCREAM, WIGGLE AND POUT, IT IS CHRIST----in it or CHRIST-ianity.
Don't worry, not even a flying monkey can erase your stupid pig brain. You are stuck on stupid in the brain.
You are going to have to do better than your lame high school level history, or as smart people call it, Hysteria for Dummies.
I tried again, but the above is like listening to some Street Corner lunatic ranting, while scratching his lice riddled head.

If you were educated you'd know that the X in place of Christ is not an insult, but historically appropriate...

Scream, Wiggle and Pout, isn't that what you do when you mount your life-like man-doll?

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