Since: Sep 08

Anderson, IN

#63 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually the Bible is for the most part a history book that describes how God worked in history. The idea that our world and universe is the result of the mindless forces of nature is absurd. There is just to much against that kind of theory.
The bible was written in mythological times...there was no science until about 200 years ago...so the explanations in the bible are myths used to pass down how people thought the world was created.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#64 Nov 18, 2012
tickedoffchic wrote:
<quoted text>
No, YOU are too simplistic with YOUR approach to the Bible. No ONE, with the the exception of the fundies, believes the Creation story is historic. You need to educate yourself.
You need to read up on this. There are a large number of scholars who believe the creation story happened as recorded in Genesis. There is nothing in the texts that would lead one to think this is allegory. Most people down through history have understood it this way. It was not until Darwin that people had problems with it. Darwinism is a pathetic explanation of human origins.

“The Topix Legend of GS!”

Since: Sep 10

Yunited States, North America

#65 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
You are to simplistic with your approach to the Bible. It composed of a number of different genres and its important to understand what kind of genre you are reading before you understand it. Jesus did not just speak in parables. Genesis is a historical genre.
Get ready Jeff they will run you off this forum bashing every post you make but please keep in mind they are dumb and do not know any better.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#66 Nov 18, 2012
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible was written in mythological times...there was no science until about 200 years ago...so the explanations in the bible are myths used to pass down how people thought the world was created.
What do you mean mythological times? Surely you don't believe the myth of evolution do you?

Since: Sep 08

Anderson, IN

#67 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to read up on this. There are a large number of scholars who believe the creation story happened as recorded in Genesis. There is nothing in the texts that would lead one to think this is allegory. Most people down through history have understood it this way. It was not until Darwin that people had problems with it. Darwinism is a pathetic explanation of human origins.
There really are NO scholars who believe this...just a bunch of born again evangelicals....

Okay, I'll give you a chance..show me the articles of those who "believe" in the creation story....it starts with a mythological character which only exists in those who have "faith" in the existence of such myths.

But, show me the scholars...thanks.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#68 Nov 18, 2012
GodSmacked wrote:
<quoted text>
Jeff, you will be the new bashing victim and will never get a clear answer. These posters are vile and nasty. Just look at how they are all starting to gang up on you now. Give it time they will be on you soon because Nettie is dumb and they all back her.
Not to worry. I actually feel sometimes I'm ganging up on them. They don't like to have their beliefs scrutinized and shown how absurd they are. That's just the way it has to be.

“The Topix Legend of GS!”

Since: Sep 10

Yunited States, North America

#69 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Not to worry. I actually feel sometimes I'm ganging up on them. They don't like to have their beliefs scrutinized and shown how absurd they are. That's just the way it has to be.
Thank you Jeff I just wanted to warn you and these dumb posters play both sides of the fence.

Since: Sep 08

Anderson, IN

#70 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to read up on this. There are a large number of scholars who believe the creation story happened as recorded in Genesis. There is nothing in the texts that would lead one to think this is allegory. Most people down through history have understood it this way. It was not until Darwin that people had problems with it. Darwinism is a pathetic explanation of human origins.
And can you provide that list of scholars, or is it your choice to ignore requests made of you?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#71 Nov 18, 2012
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
There really are NO scholars who believe this...just a bunch of born again evangelicals....
Okay, I'll give you a chance..show me the articles of those who "believe" in the creation story....it starts with a mythological character which only exists in those who have "faith" in the existence of such myths.
But, show me the scholars...thanks.
I can see you have your bias filter on (ust a bunch of born again evangelicals). No objectivity from you eh? Scholars who take a literal-historical view of Genesis can be found in The Bible Knowledge Commentary by Dallas Theological Seminary, Dr Norman Geisler, and Dr. RC Sproul to name a few. The are myriads of commentaries that could be mentioned that support a literal-historical Genesis.
Now show me scholars who study the Bible who "starts with a mythological character which only exists in those who have "faith" in the existence of such myths".

“ ILKS r kewl ”

Since: Apr 09

Conch republic

#72 Nov 18, 2012
GodSmacked wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you Jeff I just wanted to warn you and these dumb posters play both sides of the fence.
Why dont you tell Jeff that you support the GLBT population and that you actually hate fundies..

Talk about 'playin both sides of the fence', I'm surprised your taint aint got splinters!
LMAO

You're a real piece of work!

“The Topix Legend of GS!”

Since: Sep 10

Yunited States, North America

#73 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
I can see you have your bias filter on (ust a bunch of born again evangelicals). No objectivity from you eh? Scholars who take a literal-historical view of Genesis can be found in The Bible Knowledge Commentary by Dallas Theological Seminary, Dr Norman Geisler, and Dr. RC Sproul to name a few. The are myriads of commentaries that could be mentioned that support a literal-historical Genesis.
Now show me scholars who study the Bible who "starts with a mythological character which only exists in those who have "faith" in the existence of such myths".
This is who she is as a poster. She tried to play both sides of the fence and it makes her look stupid.

Since: Sep 08

Anderson, IN

#74 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
I can see you have your bias filter on (ust a bunch of born again evangelicals). No objectivity from you eh? Scholars who take a literal-historical view of Genesis can be found in The Bible Knowledge Commentary by Dallas Theological Seminary, Dr Norman Geisler, and Dr. RC Sproul to name a few. The are myriads of commentaries that could be mentioned that support a literal-historical Genesis.
Now show me scholars who study the Bible who "starts with a mythological character which only exists in those who have "faith" in the existence of such myths".
There is no god....never seen ... doesn't show up....and why would a god so jealous as to focus 4 commandments on him NOT show up?

http://epicenterconference.com/features/speak...

Dr. Norman Geisler, PhD, is a prolific author, veteran professor, speaker, lecturer, traveler, philosopher, apologist, evangelist, and theologian. &#8232;&#8232;

Norm has authored/coauthored over 70 books and hundreds of articles. He has taught theology, philosophy, and apologetics on the college or graduate level for over 50 years. He has served as a professor at some of the finest Seminaries in the United States, including Trinity Evangelical Seminary, Dallas Theological Seminary, and Southern Evangelical Seminary. He now lends his talents to Veritas Evangelical Seminary in Murrieta, California, as the Distinguished Professor of Apologetics.

----------

I rest my case...your source is an Evangelist....not really a strong scholar given these religious sects didn't start springing up until 1970's....

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#76 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
I can see you have your bias filter on (ust a bunch of born again evangelicals). No objectivity from you eh? Scholars who take a literal-historical view of Genesis can be found in The Bible Knowledge Commentary by Dallas Theological Seminary, Dr Norman Geisler, and Dr. RC Sproul to name a few. The are myriads of commentaries that could be mentioned that support a literal-historical Genesis.
Now show me scholars who study the Bible who "starts with a mythological character which only exists in those who have "faith" in the existence of such myths".
Here is just a tidbit from the Catholic Legate on a small portion of Genesis:
Okay. The events depicted in Genesis are TRUE and HISTORICAL... BUT, they are not presented using literal or historical LANGUAGE, but rather in the LANGUAGE of myth. Why do so many of my fellow-Catholics (ESPECIALLY the Protestant converts) have a problem accepting this? What's more, no one ever said that Genesis, or any book of Scripture, is a straight, comprehensive narrative, as opposed to a collection of various sources. The account of the Nephilim in Genesis 6 is one of these independent sources-an isolated story intended to theologically support what surrounds it. Notice, for example, that Noah himself is never mentioned in this account, nor is he or his Flood ever connected to the Nephilim. Rather, these are independent "vignettes" with no narrative connection to each other, save the intention of introducing the context of the Flood. But, despite popular belief, that context is not because of the conception of the Nephilim, but exactly the opposite. Because man had become "fleshy" with no "heavenly virtue" in him and so God's Spirit was being slowly withdrawn (see the decreasing genealogies in Gen 5) and man was growing in wickedness.



Noah's covenant forms part of the basis of salvation history. If Noah's story is nothing more than a reworking of the Gelgamesh epic or some other myth, then St. Peter and Jesus Himself were mistaken.



Again, Noah is a historical person (although his literal name wasn't "Noah"), and the Covenant really happened. BUT, what we have in Genesis is NOT a literal historical narrative, but an account written in MYTHIC language. And, if you do not come to terms with this, you will, sooner or later, hit a brick wall. Catholicism is a REAL faith, and one must deal with our Traditional heritage REALISTICALLY. We may not bury our heads in the sand.



It is also true that the Flood was a major historical event in the fertile crescent that is attested to in several places. The Greeks, the Hindus, the Babylonians, and several others have stories about the Deluge. Recently, it has been shown that there was catastrophic flooding in the area of the Black Sea about 7000 years ago which inundated many coastal cities and towns very rapidly. This has been implicated by some as the flood of Noah.



We've discussed this before, but I don't believe that a "regional flood" takes care of the account in Genesis, both because Genesis is clearly speaking of a universal catastrophe (i.e., one that HAD TO affect all of the peoples outlined in Genesis 10 - a demographic stretching from Persia to Spain, and from the Ukraine to Nubia), and also because Genesis is not speaking of a literal flood at all (although floods may have been literally part of it), but rather of the "waters of chaos" (a common mythic image of pan-Semitic mythology) which are, in the Genesis narrative, first cited in Gen 1:2, then "divided" by the firmament in Genesis 1:6-7 into the "waters above" and the "water below."
http://www.catholic-legate.com/Apologetics/Sc...
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#77 Nov 18, 2012
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no god....never seen ... doesn't show up....and why would a god so jealous as to focus 4 commandments on him NOT show up?
http://epicenterconference.com/features/speak...
Dr. Norman Geisler, PhD, is a prolific author, veteran professor, speaker, lecturer, traveler, philosopher, apologist, evangelist, and theologian. &#8232;&#8232;
Norm has authored/coauthored over 70 books and hundreds of articles. He has taught theology, philosophy, and apologetics on the college or graduate level for over 50 years. He has served as a professor at some of the finest Seminaries in the United States, including Trinity Evangelical Seminary, Dallas Theological Seminary, and Southern Evangelical Seminary. He now lends his talents to Veritas Evangelical Seminary in Murrieta, California, as the Distinguished Professor of Apologetics.
----------
I rest my case...your source is an Evangelist....not really a strong scholar given these religious sects didn't start springing up until 1970's....
What???? Geisler holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from Loyola University. This is one of the best universities on the planet. He is supremely qualified.

So you don't in God. Then explain how this world could come to be as it is by the mindless forces of nature? That's like explaining a car come to be just by gravity, wind, rain. Its absurd and you know it.

“ ILKS r kewl ”

Since: Apr 09

Conch republic

#78 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
What???? Geisler holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from Loyola University. This is one of the best universities on the planet. He is supremely qualified.
So you don't in God. Then explain how this world could come to be as it is by the mindless forces of nature? That's like explaining a car come to be just by gravity, wind, rain. Its absurd and you know it.
Tell us again about that "Priest in the Roman Catholic church close to you" that doesnt believe the Pope is the head of the church.. I want you to tell us all that story again!
21st century Socrates

Modesto, CA

#79 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you mean mythological times?
Surely you don't believe the myth of evolution do you?
Jeff, you seem like a good guy.
I believe in God and also don't discount evolution.
However, mankind is seperate, a different class, in that our soul is divinely imbued. No other mammal or animal has a soul in the way of mankind.

But, don't fall into the trap of discounting evolution my friend.

You've experienced and observed evolution, it is a fact, not a myth.

Surely you've seen dogs.
Dogs of every kind of size, shape, intelligence and color.
Many breeds didn't exist before your grandpa was born and some didn't come around till you after you were born.
Where did they all come from?.....The wolf, canis lupus.

All dog breeds evolved from the wolf.
Look it up and begin to understand evolution. It's not a bad thing.
21st century Socrates

Modesto, CA

#80 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
What???? Geisler holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from Loyola University. This is one of the best universities on the planet.
He is supremely qualified.

So you don't in God. Then explain how this world could come to be as it is by the mindless forces of nature? That's like explaining a car come to be just by gravity, wind, rain. Its absurd and you know it.
Isn't Loyolla a Jesuit run Catholic University?
Gotta watch out for them Jesuits....they're really really smart.

Jesuit science professors teach evolution.

Since: Sep 08

Anderson, IN

#81 Nov 18, 2012
Jeff wrote:
<quoted text>
What???? Geisler holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from Loyola University. This is one of the best universities on the planet. He is supremely qualified.
So you don't in God. Then explain how this world could come to be as it is by the mindless forces of nature? That's like explaining a car come to be just by gravity, wind, rain. Its absurd and you know it.
Nope...from an evangelical seminary....

Mindless? nature is not mindless...it has evolved...and shows its staying power....

You can't provide proof of god...only nature which science has shown us....

Cars are man made.... you don't know this?

Show me the scholars..so far, there's an evangelical trained preacher man.
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#82 Nov 18, 2012
21st century Socrates wrote:
<quoted text>
Jeff, you seem like a good guy.
I believe in God and also don't discount evolution.
However, mankind is seperate, a different class, in that our soul is divinely imbued. No other mammal or animal has a soul in the way of mankind.
But, don't fall into the trap of discounting evolution my friend.
You've experienced and observed evolution, it is a fact, not a myth.
Surely you've seen dogs.
Dogs of every kind of size, shape, intelligence and color.
Many breeds didn't exist before your grandpa was born and some didn't come around till you after you were born.
Where did they all come from?.....The wolf, canis lupus.
All dog breeds evolved from the wolf.
Look it up and begin to understand evolution. It's not a bad thing.
Lets look at evolution. Do you believe that evolution is responsible for the origin of life?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#83 Nov 18, 2012
Cookie_Parker wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope...from an evangelical seminary....
Mindless? nature is not mindless...it has evolved...and shows its staying power....
You can't provide proof of god...only nature which science has shown us....
Cars are man made.... you don't know this?
Show me the scholars..so far, there's an evangelical trained preacher man.
The forces of nature are mindless in the sense they don't think or plan. A cell is more complicated than a car. If a car requires intelligence to build it then a cell would also since its more complicated.
Where did the laws of nature come from and why are they just right for life?
Sorry. Evangelical seminaries do count.

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