Does the Death Penalty Violate Christ's teachngs?

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Since: Sep 08

Anderson, IN

#1 Nov 9, 2012
Why or why not?

“God Loves Ilks!”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#2 Nov 9, 2012
Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense and this includes the death penalty according to Catholic Catechism.

Yet:
Intentional homicide

2268 The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.69

Infanticide,70 fratricide, parricide, and the murder of a spouse are especially grave crimes by reason of the natural bonds which they break. Concern for eugenics or public health cannot justify any murder, even if commanded by public authority.

2269 The fifth commandment forbids doing anything with the intention of indirectly bringing about a person's death. The moral law prohibits exposing someone to mortal danger without grave reason, as well as refusing assistance to a person in danger.

Unintentional killing is not morally imputable. But one is not exonerated from grave offense if, without proportionate reasons, he has acted in a way that brings about someone's death, even without the intention to do so.

But, as far as the Catholic Church goes, yes, the death penalty is a just penalty if the crime warrants.
Why not

United States

#3 Nov 9, 2012
Cookie_Parker wrote:
Why or why not?
Christians don't walk around all day saying hang the bastards just like you don't walk around all day saying hang the bastards.
Sola Scriptura

Beckley, WV

#5 Nov 9, 2012
No.

“so tell me......”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#6 Nov 10, 2012
I don't believe it does. After all Christ Himself said "The wages of sin is death".

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

Made in Yorkshire

#7 Nov 10, 2012
IMHO a retribution based punishment system is wrong. AFAIAC our governments should be looking at behaviour modification rather than just pointless incarceration.

Since: Oct 07

UK

#8 Nov 10, 2012
Yes it violates Christs teachings .

There are many teaching s of Christ's which it goes against such as you have heard an eye for an eye but I say no way hosey and many more teachings like it but ultimately it is summed up by his own murder on the cross . he could have cried out revenge revenge but he didn't he said forgive them Father they know not what they do .

So it has to be for me a great big yeah without a doubt it violates Christs teachings .
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

#9 Nov 10, 2012
Generally Christians only think terminating the development of fetuses is prohibited by the Bible. History has shown that they have no problem burning witches and heretics at the stake or killing thousands in “holy wars” on the basis of Bible teaching.

"During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after eight hundred years, gathered up its halters, thumb-screws, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been." -- Mark Twain

Since: Oct 07

UK

#10 Nov 10, 2012
Aye true Al and the sad thing is all too many Christians today would kill in the name of God. all it would take is one man in power to say God says we must put to death the muslims for example and all too many would follow suit just as they did in history My own town has its own fair share of witch hunts in the not so distant past some of those hanged in the gallows and some burned at the stake and sadly some of these killed were children .It truly saddens me that these barbaric atrocities were done in the name of Christ

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#11 Nov 10, 2012
I think everyone here is off the mark except for Rollie...

I believe the question is: Is it right for Govt(s) to have the death penalty for the likes of murderers, etc...

I do believe it has it's place, but sitting on "Death Row" for 15-20 yrs is ludicrous...

Since: Oct 07

UK

#12 Nov 10, 2012
Are you saying Ndanger that the OP didn't mean to ask if the death penalty violates the teachings of Christ but rather is asking is it right for goverments ? If so and I was to answer from an non religous point of view and simply as a citizen of my country my answer based on my own personal opinions I still say No It is wrong on so many counts and I am truly thankful my country no longer has this barbaric system in place . I am also in agreement with Rolands views

“Atheism is the right choice”

Since: Jun 12

Ringwood, Australia

#13 Nov 10, 2012
Roland_Deschain wrote:
IMHO a retribution based punishment system is wrong. AFAIAC our governments should be looking at behaviour modification rather than just pointless incarceration.
But don't you think that some people cannot be changed? Any sentence whether death or incarceration should be there mainly as punishment, not deterrent.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#14 Nov 10, 2012
Nettiebelle wrote:
Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense and this includes the death penalty according to Catholic Catechism.
Yet:
Intentional homicide
2268 The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.69
Infanticide,70 fratricide, parricide, and the murder of a spouse are especially grave crimes by reason of the natural bonds which they break. Concern for eugenics or public health cannot justify any murder, even if commanded by public authority.
2269 The fifth commandment forbids doing anything with the intention of indirectly bringing about a person's death. The moral law prohibits exposing someone to mortal danger without grave reason, as well as refusing assistance to a person in danger.
Unintentional killing is not morally imputable. But one is not exonerated from grave offense if, without proportionate reasons, he has acted in a way that brings about someone's death, even without the intention to do so.
But, as far as the Catholic Church goes, yes, the death penalty is a just penalty if the crime warrants.
Yeah, this all plays into the whole way the RCC and the Proty Churches have made excuse for War, etc...as well as their own violence against those deemed enemies of the Church, etc.

One of the things that unhinges these excuses is that the State trains men to kill on reflex, they override mans naturally evolved reluctance to do harm which in many peoples POV is wholly inexcusable by these apologies and doctrinal wranglings.

Let men unencumbered by the machinations of the State/Organization decide whether to kill other men or not...dont make robots of them based on the propaganda of the State/Organization that the other man is evil. Punisher, 2012.

The whole Murder vs. Killing is a pretty shallow pool.

"Thou shall not kill" is one of the more direct rules of this God. That men have only mucked up to excuse their behaviors.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#15 Nov 10, 2012
Jesus never said, "...turn the other cheek, unless you can make good argument not to..."
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#16 Nov 10, 2012
Nettiebelle wrote:

But, as far as the Catholic Church goes, yes, the death penalty is a just penalty if the crime warrants.
So says the Institution that sponsored the Inquisitions.

And too bad they don't burn their pedophile priests. IMO, if they did that and did in St Peters Square on international TV - they could fully clear their name.(And toss in some of the enablers for good measure and show)

Hmm... a quick memory review and I cant find a single time the RCC turned the sanctifying fire on itself...weird huh?
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#17 Nov 10, 2012
angelinaUK wrote:
I don't believe it does. After all Christ Himself said "The wages of sin is death".
Yeah but he's the guy paying the wages, not us Humans.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#18 Nov 10, 2012
Roland_Deschain wrote:
IMHO a retribution based punishment system is wrong. AFAIAC our governments should be looking at behaviour modification rather than just pointless incarceration.
Govt behavior modification...now that sounds Orwellian.

Isn't the point of incarceration, the incarceration itself?

I agree that "locking people up and throwing away the key" is stupid for most criminals - but I think the bigger problem is more about the punishments not fitting the crimes more'n anything else...like this nations stupid drug laws. Or looking the other way in most White collar crimes that hurt/destroy others livelihoods?

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

Made in Yorkshire

#19 Nov 10, 2012
Sceptical_Mal wrote:
<quoted text>
But don't you think that some people cannot be changed?
Yes, especially if their actions are a result of genetics.
Sceptical_Mal wrote:
<quoted text>
Any sentence whether death or incarceration should be there mainly as punishment, not deterrent.
I think there should be consequences for criminal actions. In some cases people need to go to prison. However, once they are in prison I think we need to take a different approach because punishment does not appear to be working. AFAIAC prisons should be somewhere people are sent to have their anti-social behaviour(s) changed rather than private clubs for villians.

As for the death sentence, we don't have it here in the UK (England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales). IMHO this is a good thing.

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

Made in Yorkshire

#20 Nov 10, 2012
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Govt behavior modification...now that sounds Orwellian.
People offend for a reason. Something causes them to do so. We can address a criminal's actions by punishment each time they offend or we can address the root cause of their offending to stop them doing it again.
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't the point of incarceration, the incarceration itself?
Yes, however, shouldn't the point be to prevent criminals re-offending and to show there are far reaching consequences for criminal actions?
Punisher wrote:
I agree that "locking people up and throwing away the key" is stupid for most criminals - but I think the bigger problem is more about the punishments not fitting the crimes more'n anything else...like this nations stupid drug laws. Or looking the other way in most White collar crimes that hurt/destroy others livelihoods?
I agree. So what is to prevent the best approach being changing a persons behaviour in some cases?
21st century Socrates

Modesto, CA

#21 Nov 10, 2012
Cookie_Parker wrote:
Why or why not?
Considering Jesus summed up the the commandments and the teaching of The Law and prophets into two commandments, love God and love your neighbor as yourself, it would stand to reason the death penalty this way.

Loving our neighbor includes protecting the innocent and those unable to protect themselves by maintaining a safe and orderly society.

IF there is no other manner to isolate and remove dangerous, violent people from society for the safety of others, then the death penalty is justified.

For the record, I do not support the death penalty.

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