tithing??
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servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#101 Dec 29, 2012
WAKEUP wrote:
<quoted text>
I was originally responding to the following statement by Preacher, Cicero, IL
"Tithing is a mandatory requirement for salvation!"
You jumped in about Hebrews 10 and Romans 8.
The thread is about TITHING. That's what I was discussing.
.

You can keep going back to the tithing thing again(which I told you I disagree with) but your response and teachings to him in post #71 where still contradicting what is written in (Hebrews 10--Romans 8) concerning the law and grace.

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WAKEUP

Tinley Park, IL

#102 Dec 29, 2012
servant wrote:
<quoted text>
.
You can keep going back to the tithing thing again(which I told you I disagree with) but your response and teachings to him in post #71 where still contradicting what is written in (Hebrews 10--Romans 8) concerning the law and grace.
.
What I said comes from Galatians 3.

1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun with the Spirit, are you now ending with the flesh?

4 Did you experience so many things in vain?--if it really is in vain.

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Thus Abraham "believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."

9 So then, those who are men of faith are blessed with Abraham who had faith.

10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."

11 Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for "He who through faith is righteous shall live";

12 but the law does not rest on faith, for "He who does them shall live by them."

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree" --

14 that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man's will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified.

16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many; but, referring to one, "And to your offspring," which is Christ.

17 This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.

18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary.

20 Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not; for if a law had been given which could make alive, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

22 But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed.

24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian;

26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#103 Dec 29, 2012
WAKEUP wrote:
<quoted text>
What I said comes from Galatians 3.
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun with the Spirit, are you now ending with the flesh?
4 Did you experience so many things in vain?--if it really is in vain.
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
6 Thus Abraham "believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
9 So then, those who are men of faith are blessed with Abraham who had faith.
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."
11 Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for "He who through faith is righteous shall live";
12 but the law does not rest on faith, for "He who does them shall live by them."
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree" --
14 that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man's will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified.
16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many; but, referring to one, "And to your offspring," which is Christ.
17 This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary.
20 Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not; for if a law had been given which could make alive, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.
22 But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed.
24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian;
26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
.

But Teacher, I'm asking for you to explain what Hebrews 10 and Romans 8 is telling us. Why are you dodging my question Teacher? I want to learn what they mean? Surely Teacher you can help me.



.
servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#104 Dec 29, 2012
WAKEUP wrote:
<quoted text>
What I said comes from Galatians 3.
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun with the Spirit, are you now ending with the flesh?
4 Did you experience so many things in vain?--if it really is in vain.
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
6 Thus Abraham "believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
7 So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
9 So then, those who are men of faith are blessed with Abraham who had faith.
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."
11 Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for "He who through faith is righteous shall live";
12 but the law does not rest on faith, for "He who does them shall live by them."
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree" --
14 that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man's will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified.
16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many; but, referring to one, "And to your offspring," which is Christ.
17 This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary.
20 Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not; for if a law had been given which could make alive, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.
22 But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed.
24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian;
26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
.

By the way, You have to tell us what part of the law the apostle is talking about here. You can start by reading Hebrews 10 and Romans 8

.
servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#105 Dec 29, 2012


----- John 14:12 Jesus said "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing."

.

---JOHN 14:15-17 If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.

.

---MATTHEW 7:22-23

.


----- 1 John 2:3-6 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. The man who says, I know him, and does not keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keeps his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."


.

.
WAKEUP

Tinley Park, IL

#106 Dec 29, 2012
servant wrote:
<quoted text>
.
But Teacher, I'm asking for you to explain what Hebrews 10 and Romans 8 is telling us. Why are you dodging my question Teacher? I want to learn what they mean? Surely Teacher you can help me.
.
I'm not your teacher.

But I can point you to one who can teach you.

Matthew 7:12 RSV So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 22:37-39 RSV And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#107 Dec 29, 2012
WAKEUP wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not your teacher.
But I can point you to one who can teach you.
Matthew 7:12 RSV So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 22:37-39 RSV And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
.

Sorry, I just figured you considered yourself a teacher seeing how you spoke with such authority earlier when you were telling Preacherman that he had no skills in discernment.

.

Oh and by the way, you left these out from our Teacher:

.

MATTHEW 19:16 - & LUKE 18:19 -

.
WAKEUP

Tinley Park, IL

#108 Dec 29, 2012
servant wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Sorry, I just figured you considered yourself a teacher seeing how you spoke with such authority earlier when you were telling Preacherman that he had no skills in discernment.
.
Only when he says something that goes directly against what is clearly written in the Word of God.

Strange you don't seem to have a problem with that.
WAKEUP

Tinley Park, IL

#109 Dec 29, 2012
servant wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Sorry, I just figured you considered yourself a teacher seeing how you spoke with such authority earlier when you were telling Preacherman that he had no skills in discernment.
.
Oh and by the way, you left these out from our Teacher:
.
MATTHEW 19:16 - & LUKE 18:19 -
.
Here's one for you ...

Jesus said to them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sad'ducees."
servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#110 Dec 29, 2012
WAKEUP wrote:
<quoted text>
Only when he says something that goes directly against what is clearly written in the Word of God.
Strange you don't seem to have a problem with that.
.

Here you go again. Back the tithing thing to ignore our discussion at hand. I've already told him and you how I felt about tithing. Do you even remember what I told you about it. Now my concern with you wasn't about tithing. It was what you about the Law and grace contradicting each other. That's all, but you keep going back to what he said like my whole discussion with you is about defending him. It's not.
.
WAKEUP

Tinley Park, IL

#111 Dec 29, 2012
FINAL THOUGHT

Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.
servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#112 Dec 29, 2012
WAKEUP wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's one for you ...
Jesus said to them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sad'ducees."
.

Again. Jesus said that because he desired mercy not sacrifice (Hebrews 10---James 2---Romans 8).

.
servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#113 Dec 29, 2012
.

----JUDE 1:4 "For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord."

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Greek Road

Summerville, SC

#114 Dec 29, 2012
servant wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Sorry, I just figured you considered yourself a teacher seeing how you spoke with such authority earlier when you were telling Preacherman that he had no skills in discernment.
.
Oh and by the way, you left these out from our Teacher:
.
MATTHEW 19:16 - & LUKE 18:19 -
.
Shut the h*ll up Preacherman, if you want a raise just ask for it! Don't try to justify a raise with Scripture.
servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#115 Dec 29, 2012
Greek Road wrote:
<quoted text>Shut the h*ll up Preacherman, if you want a raise just ask for it! Don't try to justify a raise with Scripture.
.

I'm not Preacher man and I've already explained that I'd rather preach the gospel free of charge 1 Corinthians 9:14-17.

.
Greek Road

Summerville, SC

#116 Dec 29, 2012
servant wrote:
<quoted text>
.
I'm not Preacher man and I've already explained that I'd rather preach the gospel free of charge 1 Corinthians 9:14-17.
.
Yes you did. I missed that post, my apologies. What I can't understand is why anyone would want to preach from a patchwork quilt of ancient stolen myths? I mean preacherman and the other preachers are on the payroll and I get that. Then you have the people brainwashed at birth and now in their old age they hold on to the myth with so much already invested. Another group, probably the largest know very little of their own religion and never question it. Most have never actually read a Bible cover to cover to see how ridiculous it is.

Which group are you in because obviously you know Scripture?
servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#117 Dec 29, 2012
Greek Road wrote:
<quoted text>Yes you did. I missed that post, my apologies. What I can't understand is why anyone would want to preach from a patchwork quilt of ancient stolen myths? I mean preacherman and the other preachers are on the payroll and I get that. Then you have the people brainwashed at birth and now in their old age they hold on to the myth with so much already invested. Another group, probably the largest know very little of their own religion and never question it. Most have never actually read a Bible cover to cover to see how ridiculous it is.
Which group are you in because obviously you know Scripture?
.

Well ask me questions about the Bible and find out. Seriously.

.
Greek Road

Summerville, SC

#118 Dec 29, 2012
servant wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Well ask me questions about the Bible and find out. Seriously.
.
Well for starters how many books are in YOUR personal bible? LOL Which of the 30,000 denominations do you claim? I know a lot about Scripture, but now that I know its all man made mythology I don't care about it to much. I'm more interested in what makes people still believe, which is why I asked. So my instincts suggested you might be a preacher, is that right or not? If you are a preacher your far above some of the nuts on here and some preachers I had in the past.
servant

Itzincab, Mexico

#120 Dec 30, 2012
Greek Road wrote:
<quoted text> Well for starters how many books are in YOUR personal bible? LOL Which of the 30,000 denominations do you claim? I know a lot about Scripture, but now that I know its all man made mythology I don't care about it to much. I'm more interested in what makes people still believe, which is why I asked. So my instincts suggested you might be a preacher, is that right or not? If you are a preacher your far above some of the nuts on here and some preachers I had in the past.
.
.

Nope. I'm no preacher, no teacher, no prophet, no minister, no rabbi, no one special . Just a man that was always wondered which one of the denominations was the right one and decided to actually start reading the Bible. I've read other gospels claiming to be a part of the 66 books that I started with and always found they reek of a different author. I know the books were all written by different men but the style is always the same as far as doctrine goes and I find these others always say something that is out of context. Just my opinion. The books of the apocrypha also reek of a different author. They condone sorcery when sorcery is forbidden in the Hebrew canons. Plus what I find fishy about these books is they supposedly appear around 700 a.d. in a grave in Greece which is right around the time Rome was ready to start their look-a-like church for their future campaign for the crusades.

.

But anyway don't think I'm here to point you to any particular Gentile sect that is out here today or try and convert you to some sort of Judaism because I won't. Just looking to have a healthy discussion about the Scriptures. Plus I have yet to see the Apostles or Prophets in Scriptures point to any one besides their Messiah. So why would I start pointing you in the opposite direction from them now.

.

.
Patriot

Longmont, CO

#122 Dec 30, 2012
To Tithe or Not To Tithe

http://www.prophetic.net/tithe.htm

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