forgery no. 24 in the bible - Jesus' ...

forgery no. 24 in the bible - Jesus' last words

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abcd

Dhaka, Bangladesh

#1 May 21, 2008
Near the end of the account of Jesus alleged suffering on the cross, his "last words" are recorded in all four gospels.

Mark 15:34 says that Jesus cried out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? He then gave a loud cry (v37) and breathed his last.

Matthew 27:46-50 is a repetition of Mark’s version. Since Mark is the older, it is reasonable to conclude that the writer of Matthew was a plagiarist.

Luke 23:46 says that Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" and gave up the ghost.

John 19:30, says that when he had received the wine, Jesus said, "It is finished" and bowed his head and gave up the ghost.

Simple logic tells us that there can be only one set of last words. In neither case is Jesus being quoted out of context because these verses are independent of context. Translation errors can not be to blame because the words are quite clear and quite different. Also, since there are no first hand accounts, just who heard and recorded these alleged last words? If there is any truth at all here it is that one, and only one, of these quotes is correct, which means that the others are obvious inventions.

“the baby who would be king!!!!”

Since: Jan 07

fort worth

#2 May 21, 2008
what is your agenda with the multiple topix under the same theme ?
Stones

Knutsford, UK

#3 May 21, 2008
scuter pie wrote:
what is your agenda with the multiple topix under the same theme ?
to destroy Christianity.
I don't think he has been indoctrinated by 'communist manifesto' but by propaganda by his Islamist-relatives for sure.
abcd 2 stones

Dhaka, Bangladesh

#4 May 21, 2008
Stones wrote:
<quoted text>
to destroy Christianity.
I don't think he has been indoctrinated by 'communist manifesto' but by propaganda by his Islamist-relatives for sure.
Is this a sensible answer.In the muslim forum u told me 2 go 2 the christian forum .But here u r telling me that i m launching propaganda.

What is yr point.

If it is a propaganda then show it wid logic n argument instead of imotional comments.

N by the holy spirit inspires the writers of gospel then y this big difference in quotation of 1 of the most important event of christianity.

Then how can u tell gospel is relaiable account or eye witness when they varied so much in the most important event of christianity crucifixion n ressurection.
Stones

Knutsford, UK

#5 May 21, 2008
abcd 2 stones wrote:
<quoted text>
Is this a sensible answer.In the muslim forum u told me 2 go 2 the christian forum .But here u r telling me that i m launching propaganda.
What is yr point.
If it is a propaganda then show it wid logic n argument instead of imotional comments.
N by the holy spirit inspires the writers of gospel then y this big difference in quotation of 1 of the most important event of christianity.
Then how can u tell gospel is relaiable account or eye witness when they varied so much in the most important event of christianity crucifixion n ressurection.
abcd my good frind. I did not, but I saw someone suggested you that if you needed an answer you go and ask in Christian forum instead of cutting and pasting.

I am also humbly asking you the same thing, if you think something is in error, ask in one or two line, that way you get to hear the other side.

perhaps there is no error, perhaps misinterpretation or perhaps there is actually an error.

But if you just cut & paste, you will never know the other side. Just like those anti sites, the are not 'dialogs', they are just some people's one sides opinion.

If you thing there is something that seems contradiction to you, instead of cutting and pasting, ask.

NOW my question based on your above statements -
Which one is contradictions regarding Jesus' death and resurrection, all gospels says the same things regarding those events.
Stones

Knutsford, UK

#6 May 21, 2008
Regarding your quoted verses:

Mark 15:34 says that Jesus cried out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? He then gave a loud cry (v37) and breathed his last.

Matthew 27:46-50 is a repetition of Mark’s version. Since Mark is the older, it is reasonable to conclude that the writer of Matthew was a plagiarist.

Luke 23:46 says that Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" and gave up the ghost.

John 19:30, says that when he had received the wine, Jesus said, "It is finished" and bowed his head and gave up the ghost.

Jesus said all of them.

Who told you it has to be only one of this statement? Is there anywhere written it has to be only one of these statement?

Think, you seem like an intelligent guy.

All the statements were made by Jesus on the cross.

Final words do not mean final MOST one word.
Whoever wrote those as contradictions, is incorrect in assuming.

See how all gospels are describing his death on cross and each witter is stating independently and tell truth as they know and saw it.

If these accounts were exactly same, that would have raised a suspicion about authenticity. The fact that they are different statements but the described event is the same, says they are authentic.

If one writer said, Jesus died on cross, another said, God made an illusion, that would have been a contradiction. Rather all writers are saying he died on cross.

Therefore NO contradictions on the verses you posted above.
abcd 2 stones

Dhaka, Bangladesh

#7 May 21, 2008
Stones wrote:
<quoted text>
abcd my good frind. I did not, but I saw someone suggested you that if you needed an answer you go and ask in Christian forum instead of cutting and pasting.
I am also humbly asking you the same thing, if you think something is in error, ask in one or two line, that way you get to hear the other side.
perhaps there is no error, perhaps misinterpretation or perhaps there is actually an error.
But if you just cut & paste, you will never know the other side. Just like those anti sites, the are not 'dialogs', they are just some people's one sides opinion.
If you thing there is something that seems contradiction to you, instead of cutting and pasting, ask.
NOW my question based on your above statements -
Which one is contradictions regarding Jesus' death and resurrection, all gospels says the same things regarding those events.
Fine 1st tell y the last word is so different.That was 1 of the most important event of history as god was giving his life 4 the whole human kind :P.

N as holy spirit was also helping the writers of the gospels then how come the difference arise of such a important event.!!!!!
abcd 2 stones

Dhaka, Bangladesh

#8 May 21, 2008
Stones wrote:
Regarding your quoted verses:
Mark 15:34 says that Jesus cried out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? He then gave a loud cry (v37) and breathed his last.
Matthew 27:46-50 is a repetition of Mark’s version. Since Mark is the older, it is reasonable to conclude that the writer of Matthew was a plagiarist.
Luke 23:46 says that Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" and gave up the ghost.
John 19:30, says that when he had received the wine, Jesus said, "It is finished" and bowed his head and gave up the ghost.
Jesus said all of them.
Who told you it has to be only one of this statement? Is there anywhere written it has to be only one of these statement?
Think, you seem like an intelligent guy.
All the statements were made by Jesus on the cross.
Final words do not mean final MOST one word.
Whoever wrote those as contradictions, is incorrect in assuming.
See how all gospels are describing his death on cross and each witter is stating independently and tell truth as they know and saw it.
If these accounts were exactly same, that would have raised a suspicion about authenticity. The fact that they are different statements but the described event is the same, says they are authentic.
If one writer said, Jesus died on cross, another said, God made an illusion, that would have been a contradiction. Rather all writers are saying he died on cross.
Therefore NO contradictions on the verses you posted above.
each n every case it is said jesus said certain stuff n gave up ghost.

If gave up the ghost event would not b here then it would b reasonable 2 think that jesus was saying all of them.

MARK n mathew after saying my god ,my god then wid a loud cry he breathed last.

in luke just after saying father in 2 yr hand i have given my spirit ,he breathed last.

in john after saying it is finished and bowing his head he gave up ghost.

In each n every case it is clear those r the last word.

Here ur argument do not hold.

each n every case the scene is different.

mark n mathew in pain.

luke emotional.

john dramatic .

So wat is yr point now.
Stones

Knutsford, UK

#9 May 21, 2008
abcd 2 stones wrote:
<quoted text>
Fine 1st tell y the last word is so different.That was 1 of the most important event of history as god was giving his life 4 the whole human kind :P.
N as holy spirit was also helping the writers of the gospels then how come the difference arise of such a important event.!!!!!
Please see my previous answer.

The described event (Jesus' death on cross) is SAME in all forum writer's gospels.

The statements you mentioned, are all said by Jesus.

Holy Spirit inspired men to write them but Holy Spirit (God) Himself did not write them.

There is NO error or contradictions in those verses and like I said, all the statements were made by Jesus on the cross and all writes made clear Jesus died on the cross and no illusion or anything different.
Stones

Knutsford, UK

#10 May 21, 2008
abcd 2 stones wrote:
<quoted text>
each n every case it is said jesus said certain stuff n gave up ghost.
If gave up the ghost event would not b here then it would b reasonable 2 think that jesus was saying all of them.
MARK n mathew after saying my god ,my god then wid a loud cry he breathed last.
in luke just after saying father in 2 yr hand i have given my spirit ,he breathed last.
in john after saying it is finished and bowing his head he gave up ghost.
In each n every case it is clear those r the last word.
Here ur argument do not hold.
each n every case the scene is different.
mark n mathew in pain.
luke emotional.
john dramatic .
So wat is yr point now.
I see where you are confused.

Now read my following line very carefully and you will be able to see the piece of the puzzle which lead you to believe it is a contradiction in the first place.

See the aniti-Bible blogger who wrote that article FABRICATED the Bible verse.

Here is the actual Mark 15:34

"And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

But now look what you posted. The one you posted also have a phrase "He then gave a loud cry (v37) and breathed his last."

So that blogger combined Mark 15:34 & 37

but left out 35 and 36.

now if you see 35 & 36, you will see the vinegar incident is there.

" 34And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"[a]

35When some of those standing near heard this, they said, "Listen, he's calling Elijah."

36One man ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink. "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to take him down," he said.

37With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.
"

See this is classic example of the anti-Bible hate site who fabricate or combine verse to fit their need to prove Bible is wrong. It is their ill intention that is bad, not the Bible verse.
Stones

Knutsford, UK

#11 May 21, 2008
So John 19:30 as you posted coincide with Mark 15:35-36 (the verses anti-Bible blogger intentionally left out to confuse people.)

That is why I requested you, instead on banking on this anti-Bible sites, read the Gospels yourself please, you will understand better.
abcd

Dhaka, Bangladesh

#12 May 21, 2008
Stones wrote:
So John 19:30 as you posted coincide with Mark 15:35-36 (the verses anti-Bible blogger intentionally left out to confuse people.)
That is why I requested you, instead on banking on this anti-Bible sites, read the Gospels yourself please, you will understand better.
but u did not look at the mark 15:37.

mark 15:37 BUT Jesus cried out with a loud voice and breathed his last.

look at the word but.

it clearly implies that jesus did not drink n died wid a loud voice.

it creates another contradiction wid john.where it says jesus ate n said it is finished n died.

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#13 May 21, 2008
abcd wrote:
<quoted text>
but u did not look at the mark 15:37.
mark 15:37 BUT Jesus cried out with a loud voice and breathed his last.
look at the word but.
it clearly implies that jesus did not drink n died wid a loud voice.
it creates another contradiction wid john.where it says jesus ate n said it is finished n died.
You do realize that all of your arguements are empty and without merit. They are all easily refuted with only a slight understanding of scripture. What do you think will happen when a scriptural giant sees these little useless attempts to disprove the bible? You will look even dumber than you do now. Silly idiot.
Stones

Knutsford, UK

#14 May 21, 2008
abcd wrote:
<quoted text>
but u did not look at the mark 15:37.
mark 15:37 BUT Jesus cried out with a loud voice and breathed his last.
look at the word but.
it clearly implies that jesus did not drink n died wid a loud voice.
it creates another contradiction wid john.where it says jesus ate n said it is finished n died.
So you think the contradiction is in the word "BUT"?

Where is the word "BUT", show me, I will put down here multiple translations -

Mark 15:37 (King James Version)
" 37And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost."

Mark 15:37 (New Living Translation)
"37 Then Jesus uttered another loud cry and breathed his last."

Mark 15:37 (New International Version)
"37With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last"

You can check all translations and check for your self. In fact you can check the one in your language as well (I am not sure which language you speak other than English).

So, do you see, how the word "BUT" is inserted by the anti-Bible blogger?
Stones

Knutsford, UK

#16 May 21, 2008
Kerdy 1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You do realize that all of your arguements are empty and without merit. They are all easily refuted with only a slight understanding of scripture. What do you think will happen when a scriptural giant sees these little useless attempts to disprove the bible? You will look even dumber than you do now. Silly idiot.
It is alright Kerdy brother. abcd is a Muslim, a nice guy, he is learning about the Bible.

I sincerely hope one day he preaches the very Bible he is trying to rant based on anti-Bible site.
abcd 2 kerdy1

Dhaka, Bangladesh

#17 May 21, 2008
Stones wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think the contradiction is in the word "BUT"?
Where is the word "BUT", show me, I will put down here multiple translations -
Mark 15:37 (King James Version)
" 37And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost."
Mark 15:37 (New Living Translation)
"37 Then Jesus uttered another loud cry and breathed his last."
Mark 15:37 (New International Version)
"37With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last"
You can check all translations and check for your self. In fact you can check the one in your language as well (I am not sure which language you speak other than English).
So, do you see, how the word "BUT" is inserted by the anti-Bible blogger?
15:37 But Jesus cried out with a loud voice and breathed his last.

http://www.bible.org/netbible/index.htm

It may b new international version.

If this is true than it implies another deliberate forgey of the bible 2 hide the contradiction of drinking vinegar.

N this is a very relaiable christian source.

Not any anti christian source.

waiting 4 yr reply.
Stones

Knutsford, UK

#18 May 21, 2008
abcd 2 kerdy1 wrote:
<quoted text>
15:37 But Jesus cried out with a loud voice and breathed his last.
http://www.bible.org/netbible/index.htm
It may b new international version.
If this is true than it implies another deliberate forgey of the bible 2 hide the contradiction of drinking vinegar.
N this is a very relaiable christian source.
Not any anti christian source.
waiting 4 yr reply.
abcd, the contradiction is not in the word "BUT"
Here is a site, take a look all translations (except one) says "And"

http://bible.cc/mark/15-37.htm

But that is not my answer.

I think you are trying to presetn that wether Jesus drank the drink given by the solders or not. You think some gosepl say (Mark) he didn't and and some saying he did.

Jesus was offered wined mixed with bitter element and refused on the cross and at the end solders gave him vinegar which he received. even the mark gospel says the same thing.

So Mark, John and Mark all mention the same thing, Jesus was offered wine mixed with poison which he did not receive but he finally was given vinegar or vinegar wince which he received. I can see why you are hung up with the word 'BUT' because you think in Mark he was offered vinegar but before drinking that he died vs john he received vinegar.
The fact is he was offered vinegar NOT by a cup or bucket, he was offered vinegar dipped sponge on the tip of a stick which a soldier put to his mouth. Even gospel of Mathew and john says he received it, does not mean he drank to fill his stomach and he could have since it was a sponge socked in vinegar offered by lifting with a stick, so makes a little or no difference if he received or died when offered. This is from two different writer who said the same thing of his dying on the cross in the detail to vinegar being offered. And people trying to show contradiction in cursory level whether he drank it of it just to to his lips. But the the people do not understand that it was not offered by a cup so that he can drink it up. So vinegar being offered close to Jesus' mouth is the description of the incident and he died at that point, whether he drank up vinegar or not make no difference.
Ahmed

Hopkins, MN

#19 May 21, 2008
Stones wrote:
<quoted text>
abcd my good frind. I did not, but I saw someone suggested you that if you needed an answer you go and ask in Christian forum instead of cutting and pasting.
I am also humbly asking you the same thing, if you think something is in error, ask in one or two line, that way you get to hear the other side.
perhaps there is no error, perhaps misinterpretation or perhaps there is actually an error.
But if you just cut & paste, you will never know the other side. Just like those anti sites, the are not 'dialogs', they are just some people's one sides opinion.
If you thing there is something that seems contradiction to you, instead of cutting and pasting, ask.
NOW my question based on your above statements -
Which one is contradictions regarding Jesus' death and resurrection, all gospels says the same things regarding those events.
I wonder what Christian are hiding?May be they don't want people to find out the true.

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#20 May 21, 2008
abcd wrote:
Near the end of the account of Jesus alleged suffering on the cross, his "last words" are recorded in all four gospels.
Mark 15:34 says that Jesus cried out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? He then gave a loud cry (v37) and breathed his last.
Matthew 27:46-50 is a repetition of Mark’s version. Since Mark is the older, it is reasonable to conclude that the writer of Matthew was a plagiarist.
Luke 23:46 says that Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" and gave up the ghost.
John 19:30, says that when he had received the wine, Jesus said, "It is finished" and bowed his head and gave up the ghost.
Simple logic tells us that there can be only one set of last words. In neither case is Jesus being quoted out of context because these verses are independent of context. Translation errors can not be to blame because the words are quite clear and quite different. Also, since there are no first hand accounts, just who heard and recorded these alleged last words? If there is any truth at all here it is that one, and only one, of these quotes is correct, which means that the others are obvious inventions.
How I wish Jesus to speak English only before He died but the His meaning of words had been put into several languages and thoughts by writers and translators of different backgrounds.

If all the gospels were written the same, the writers were accused of plagiarizm. If the words were phrase in different ways but same spiritual meanings, it would be accuse of erroneous.

One must imagine that Jesus had been murmuring on the cross before He died. Those murmurs were heard and told to the writer in different expression. I think the really last words before Jesus last breathe was 'it is finished'. The others were just His murmuring during his suffering on the cross.

“Jesus forgives..... ”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#21 May 21, 2008
Ahmed wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder what Christian are hiding?May be they don't want people to find out the true.
That is your assumption only. Xtians do not try to hide anything about Jesus. They have all the truth in Jesus although His stories were told in different manners. It is this difference that you may accuse them of hiding the miswritten stories of whatsoever. All true xtians accept those differences but they believe in the major ones. The stories were really a real expression of the writers in thgeir own thoughts and words and also from what they had heard from others and how they could intrepreted and grasp the meaning individually.

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