Tower of Babble vs NASA Question
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#1533 Aug 30, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again you have brought up the messy question about predetermination.
If God knows all, then all is predetermined.
If nothing is predetermined, then God doesn't know what will happen in the future, in which case he is not omniscient.
So, if everything is predetermined, then God - being all-knowing and all-powerful - planned everything out. Since he planned everything out, he knows before you are born if you are going to heaven or hell.
If he knows you are going to hell and creates you anyway, then he is a sadistic piece of filth who deserves no reverence.
Why bow down to something that has already decided to burn you? Why exalt something that has already decided that you are damned for eternity?
Clearly, an all-good and all-knowing God doesn't exist. The two are incompatible, with one exception: if there is no heaven or hell, no reward or punishment.
Thus, if an all-good and all-knowing God exists, then nothing we can do will alter our fates. And so, being all-good, he doesn't punish us for what we do - for what he planned all along for us to do.
First off, my God is not a sadomasochist but the god of Christianity is. Hell is not physical torture but it is mental terror. All sin is conceived of in the mind before it is brought about. Just because God knows something doesn't mean we don't have free will and it doesn't matter. Because we don't know our own destinies, we all make a choice. We can choose at any time to follow the path of life and God will accept us. You are blaming God for your own sin. Isaiah 53:6 "...and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all".

“Vader2016!”

Since: Sep 10

The Deathstar

#1534 Aug 30, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
I didnt say "Abraham is famous!" and leave it at that. I asked why his God told him He (God Almighty) would make his (Abraham's) name great. Your answer? You didnt have one really lol
Thats what Im talking about though. No response to what I said. You acted as if I said, "Abraham is famous!!!" and used that as proof. I asked why the prophecy came true.
As well, why Israel exists again JUST AS THE PROPHETS said it would. Of course, I got no answer.
Blah blah blah... His name is in a book.... Harry Potter's name is also in a book. A book that also has talking vegetation.
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
You're saying that it wasnt "foreseen" that Israel would be punished for not adhering to their God's commandments? Really?
lol
There are several things that are just out right ridicules fly, get over your absurd little book.
Flygerian

Duncan, OK

#1535 Aug 30, 2013
10uhsee wrote:
<quoted text>
Blah blah blah... His name is in a book.... Harry Potter's name is also in a book. A book that also has talking vegetation.
How about this, you take your ball and go home lol. Come back with your ball when you want to respond to what I said. Otherwise, I'll just continue to call you out on your deflections
10uhsee wrote:

<quoted text>
There are several things that are just out right ridicules fly, get over your absurd little book.
Still avoiding I see? lol Thats fine because I know why. How about this:
Flygerian wrote:

You take your ball and go home lol. Come back with your ball when you want to respond to what I said. Otherwise, I'll just continue to call you out on your deflections

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#1536 Aug 30, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
I didnt say "Abraham is famous!" and leave it at that. I asked why his God told him He (God Almighty) would make his (Abraham's) name great. Your answer? You didnt have one really lol
Thats what Im talking about though. No response to what I said. You acted as if I said, "Abraham is famous!!!" and used that as proof. I asked why the prophecy came true.
As well, why Israel exists again JUST AS THE PROPHETS said it would. Of course, I got no answer.
<quoted text>
You're saying that it wasnt "foreseen" that Israel would be punished for not adhering to their God's commandments? Really?
lol
There is no prophecy in Abraham. No scribe set pen to paper until well over a thousand years after Abraham allegedly. There is no Israel prophecy. The temple was destroyed in 586 BC. The Jews were freed from captivity fifty years later and rebuilt the temple.
People have been monkeying with the Bible since it was written. Hebrew scholars say the book of Isaiah was written over a period of a few hundred years, reaching its final form in the fourth century BC, well after the Jews returned to Israel.

So, what it boils down to is you haven't provided any evidence that BibleGod exists, much less any proof.
Flygerian

Duncan, OK

#1537 Aug 30, 2013
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no prophecy in Abraham. No scribe set pen to paper until well over a thousand years after Abraham allegedly.
Umm... Yes there are prophecies of Abraham. One of them, is that his name would be great. No scribe can make that happen. So why did it happen if the bible is fake?
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
There is no Israel prophecy. The temple was destroyed in 586 BC. The Jews were freed from captivity fifty years later and rebuilt the temple.
Sorry, during the time period you are referencing, it wasnt ALL of Israel that was scattered NOR were they scattered across the earth. Want to try again?
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
People have been monkeying with the Bible since it was written. Hebrew scholars say the book of Isaiah was written over a period of a few hundred years, reaching its final form in the fourth century BC, well after the Jews returned to Israel.
And what have you seen to support this belief?
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
So, what it boils down to is you haven't provided any evidence that BibleGod exists, much less any proof.
So you say. Then again, you're glossing around my statements. So lets try again:

1. In Genesis 12 God Almighty tells Abraham that his name (Abraham's) would be made great. If the bible is fake, why is Abraham's name famous today? Why do BILLIONS of people hold his name in high regard and MILLIONS MORE simply know of his existence if the bible is fake?

2. Israel was to be scattered to the "4 corners" of the earth. This didnt happen when the Israelites were exiled from JERUSALEM (not all of Israel) and taken to BABYLON. This happened after the temple was destroyed the second time. So why is there a nation again after 2000+ years of there not being a nation? And why did the God of Israel say that there would once again be a nation of Israel though they would be scattered to the four corners of the earth?

Again, your post just glosses over these statements/questions while never DIRECTLY responding to it. But then again, its the same tactic you've had on display this whole thread lol

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#1538 Aug 30, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>God tried Abraham just like he tried Moses and the Messiah. By this experience, God taught Abraham trust and obeisance and it was counted to him as righteousness. We cannot see into the future as God can and we do not understand everything. God will do what is in our best interest.
It would have been a good thing if at least someone could tell about the future, but I am afraid that there are some other forces in control of it, or I would rather say; keeps it out of control.

I have learned that chaos is the force that controls this world; it creates everything and in the end it destroys everything.

If someone could control chaos then this someone would be greater than any God.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#1539 Aug 31, 2013
Mr Ironhart wrote:
<quoted text>
It would have been a good thing if at least someone could tell about the future, but I am afraid that there are some other forces in control of it, or I would rather say; keeps it out of control.
I have learned that chaos is the force that controls this world; it creates everything and in the end it destroys everything.
If someone could control chaos then this someone would be greater than any God.
Out of the dust of destruction will emerge a new world kingdom, also called NWO (New World Order). Only the righteous of all faiths will be around to see this happen. The capital of this kingdom will be Jerusalem and the Messiah will live in his Temple and govern the nations. David will be the governor of both houses of Israel, which will be reunited.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#1540 Aug 31, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Out of the dust of destruction will emerge a new world kingdom, also called NWO (New World Order). Only the righteous of all faiths will be around to see this happen. The capital of this kingdom will be Jerusalem and the Messiah will live in his Temple and govern the nations. David will be the governor of both houses of Israel, which will be reunited.
Yes I know that everything will crumble and go away over time, which is in the nature of all things.

On the other hand we have all these impatient fools who wants instant results; those who are bombing everything they don’t like into dust.

I see the good intentions in what you just said, so far so good; but this old idea also has into it the extremely poisonous seeds that could bring us all into a world wide disaster.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#1541 Sep 1, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Just because God knows something doesn't mean we don't have free will and it doesn't matter.
If your God knows that on day X at time Y you will do Z, then on day X at time Y you have NO CHOICE but to do Z.

If you can freely choose something other than Z, then your God doesn't know the future.

And if you can't choose something other than Z, then you don't have free will.

I'm beginning to think you're a moron, since the logic behind this is elementary.

Seriously, only an idiot would believe that God knows exactly what you are going to do but you have the freedom to prove him wrong.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#1542 Sep 1, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Out of the dust of destruction will emerge a new world kingdom, also called NWO (New World Order). Only the righteous of all faiths will be around to see this happen. The capital of this kingdom will be Jerusalem and the Messiah will live in his Temple and govern the nations. David will be the governor of both houses of Israel, which will be reunited.
What if David declines the post?

Does he have the free will to do that, or is it inevitable?

I was right - you're an idiot.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#1543 Sep 1, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
If your God knows that on day X at time Y you will do Z, then on day X at time Y you have NO CHOICE but to do Z.
If you can freely choose something other than Z, then your God doesn't know the future.
And if you can't choose something other than Z, then you don't have free will.
I'm beginning to think you're a moron, since the logic behind this is elementary.
Seriously, only an idiot would believe that God knows exactly what you are going to do but you have the freedom to prove him wrong.
You know, after the "crucifixion", my father was bent on trying to break scripture and prevent it from being fulfilled. My parents absolutely forbade me from going on the front porch, they perceived it as a balcony and worried about the drummer boy happening. We also moved ASAP to get away from believers and to stop prophecy. My father made sure our new house didn't have a balcony. When I was 18 he kicked me out of the house and I moved into an apartment with a balcony. Every time he tried to break scripture all he did was fulfill it. By his actions, he's caused other things to be fulfilled too. That doesn't mean he's not accountable for what he's done. If we have no knowledge of the future we have free will. Only God doesn't have free will because he knows the outcome.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#1544 Sep 1, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
What if David declines the post?
Does he have the free will to do that, or is it inevitable?
I was right - you're an idiot.
Everybody has been reincarnated for a reason. Davids purpose is to be the king of Israel forever. If you were him, would you decline it? My guess is it's his ambition to become king and he will live in the Ivory house.(White house) I Kings 22:39. Israel will become a state of the USA and it will also include northwestern Europe. They are the children of Ephraim and Manasseh. Genesis 48:19.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#1545 Sep 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Everybody has been reincarnated for a reason.
So then God got the first incarnation wrong, that's why people have to be "recycled" until God gets it right.

Okay, got it...
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#1546 Sep 2, 2013
HighlyEvolved wrote:
<quoted text>
So then God got the first incarnation wrong, that's why people have to be "recycled" until God gets it right.
Okay, got it...
Only people in heaven can be reincarnated. If you went to hell, you're gone forever. People might choose to come back to earth to improve their status in heaven or if they would do something great or important. Two people have been sent back, kicked out. Adam and Jesus.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#1547 Sep 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Only people in heaven can be reincarnated. If you went to hell, you're gone forever. People might choose to come back to earth to improve their status in heaven or if they would do something great or important. Two people have been sent back, kicked out. Adam and Jesus.
Improve their "status" in heaven? ROFL!

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#1549 Sep 3, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Here lets try again:
1. God came to Abraham and said "I will make your name great" among other things...
Thousands of years later? He is a very known figure in human history. Why did this come true if the bible is false?
Hold on, lets try question number 2 again since you didnt answer.
2. How come Israel exists like a thousand year old+ book said it would if its fake? It doesnt matter how the nation came to be lol. What matters is that it happened. Why did it happen if the bible is fake?
Answers like "a broken clock is right twice" is deflecting. Then again, I should expect that tactic from you.
Does that fact that many people throughout the world know his name make Harry Potter a real person?

This has already been answered. I know that you didn't like the answer. Tough.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#1550 Sep 3, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
No it is not that simple. Because individuals can follow a cookery book and make it come to fruition. Not with the situations I presented
1. As for Abraham's name being great, individuals cannot make that happen. Groups cannot make that happen. It takes more than that to make this "random" man's name great. And not "great" as in the sense of a celebrity. But a man's fame that has lasted generation after generation. It is the God that came to him that made it so. If you dont think so, what is it?
All existing Jews today, and all Jews in the past, all of the Israelites, all of the Hebrews, they all BELIEVED that Abraham really existed and was the founding patriarch of their tribes. And that is all that is required for his name to be considered great to this day. His name will continue to be held as great just as long as there are people who believe that.
Flygerian wrote:
2. As for Israel, again, it is not as simple as "following a cookery book". Theres no directions in the bible for creating the nation of Israel. But, for some reason exists. I mean, I've asked why before, but havent gotten a good answer. It is more than "following directions." For instance, why were they successful? Why did Israel win its first war? Why have they existed for 70+ years? Why did they NOT exist for say 2000 years and then come to exist again just as the prophets stated?
From where I see it, you cannot ignore these two points. I mean, you can try to brush it aside like those other guys did, but you HAVE to admit (if you're honest) that those are two points that are absolutely right. And theres more where that came from lol
Once again, people believe that the Bible is true. And purely because of that belief, some people can be moved to act. After WW2, the Jews needed a place to live, and most countries did not want them - anti-Semitism was not restricted to just Germany. They were given a part of British territory in the Mideast, and perhaps the people who made that possible BELIEVED that they were helping to fulfill prophecy along the way. That is all it takes.
Flygerian

Duncan, OK

#1551 Sep 3, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Does that fact that many people throughout the world know his name make Harry Potter a real person?

This has already been answered. I know that you didn't like the answer. Tough.
Your first sentence would hold credence if I had said "people know about Abraham! That is proof!".

I didnt do that did I???
Flygerian

Duncan, OK

#1552 Sep 3, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
All existing Jews today, and all Jews in the past, all of the Israelites, all of the Hebrews, they all BELIEVED that Abraham really existed and was the founding patriarch of their tribes. And that is all that is required for his name to be considered great to this day. His name will continue to be held as great just as long as there are people who believe that.
It doesnt matter the reason you say his name is held as great. The FACT is that is what the Being that came to Abraham said He was going to do for Abraham. Thousands of years later and we see that that has came to fruition. Now it is on YOU to decipher why this has happened just as the God that came to Abraham said would happen.
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, people believe that the Bible is true. And purely because of that belief, some people can be moved to act. After WW2, the Jews needed a place to live, and most countries did not want them - anti-Semitism was not restricted to just Germany. They were given a part of British territory in the Mideast, and perhaps the people who made that possible BELIEVED that they were helping to fulfill prophecy along the way. That is all it takes.
IT DOESNT MATTER lol. The fact is that in the bible it says Israel would exist as a nation again. Now, if you can show that the reason YOU stated this happened contradicting what the prophets said about the restoration of Israel, then by all means bring it. Otherwise you arent really saying much other than my point. Israel exists again as a nation JUST AS God said it would to prophet after prophet.
Flygerian

Duncan, OK

#1553 Sep 3, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Your first sentence would hold credence if I had said "people know about Abraham! That is proof!".
I didnt do that did I???
To elaborate, I didnt say that because Abraham is famous, that the bible is true. I said that some Being came to Abraham and said his name would be made great. Now after this happened, and then after it was written down, his name has been made great. It is on you to signify why this doesnt count as a fulfilled promise.

For more, read Genesis 12-19. All the promises made to Abraham are there as well as following chapters I think to 24-25.

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