God and the Problem of Evil

God and the Problem of Evil

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JesusLovesU

East Lansing, MI

#1 Apr 7, 2010
God created everything so that would include morality. So if God created morality nothing that God does or anything God condones can ever be evil.

So God says slavery is OK. God created morality. God does not lie. Therefore slavery is OK. The fact that many people even most people disagree just shows how far away our society is from God.

God also says for a rapist and his victim to marry, and says that women are subserviant to men. If God says so that's enough for me. He created morality so we should trust in him and his judgement.
Thinking

Newcastle, UK

#2 Apr 7, 2010
I know you are just Poeing, but please keep the logic solid. Morals define lines "your" god can transgress.

e.g. it is not immoral to eat chocolate in the morning until "your" god says it is immoral. If god then eats a Hershey bar for breakfast, this is now an immoral act, committed by "your" god.
JesusLovesU

East Lansing, MI

#3 Apr 7, 2010
Thinking wrote:
I know you are just Poeing, but please keep the logic solid. Morals define lines "your" god can transgress.
e.g. it is not immoral to eat chocolate in the morning until "your" god says it is immoral. If god then eats a Hershey bar for breakfast, this is now an immoral act, committed by "your" god.
What is Poeing?

And God wouldn't define something as immoral if he knew he was about to do it and because he's omniscient he can define things backwards anyways
Thinking

Newcastle, UK

#4 Apr 7, 2010
I'm sure you know who Nathan Poe is but you can google it if you must.

I don't know how you can prove "your" god's intention regarding morals. Do as I say, not as I do, and all that...

Finally, to retrospectively alter the universe requires more than omniscience, it will require something equal to. or at least approaching omnipotence.
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>
What is Poeing?
And God wouldn't define something as immoral if he knew he was about to do it and because he's omniscient he can define things backwards anyways

“Search For Truth”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#5 Apr 7, 2010
JesusLovesU wrote:
God created everything so that would include morality. So if God created morality nothing that God does or anything God condones can ever be evil.
So God says slavery is OK. God created morality. God does not lie. Therefore slavery is OK. The fact that many people even most people disagree just shows how far away our society is from God.
God also says for a rapist and his victim to marry, and says that women are subserviant to men. If God says so that's enough for me. He created morality so we should trust in him and his judgement.
Your problem is that you can not understand that the morality you describe above is not God's morality. It is the primitive bronze-age peoples' morality, written to suit their ancient needs.
JesusLovesU

East Lansing, MI

#6 Apr 7, 2010
Thinking wrote:
I'm sure you know who Nathan Poe is but you can google it if you must.
I don't know how you can prove "your" god's intention regarding morals. Do as I say, not as I do, and all that...
Finally, to retrospectively alter the universe requires more than omniscience, it will require something equal to. or at least approaching omnipotence.
<quoted text>
He is omnipotent too. There's your answer.
Alphabet wrote:
<quoted text>
Your problem is that you can not understand that the morality you describe above is not God's morality. It is the primitive bronze-age peoples' morality, written to suit their ancient needs.
Then why does the Bible, a book inspired by the almighty say that it is the word of God? It wouldn't say that if it wasn't true, because a book inspired by God tells no lies.
Thinking

Europe

#7 Apr 7, 2010
OK, I'll play...

You could be omnipotent and still lie.
To be incapable of lying would mean that you were not omnipotent.
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>
He is omnipotent too. There's your answer.
<quoted text>
Then why does the Bible, a book inspired by the almighty say that it is the word of God? It wouldn't say that if it wasn't true, because a book inspired by God tells no lies.
JESUSis

Doncaster East, Australia

#8 Apr 7, 2010
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>God created everything so that would include morality. So if God created morality nothing that God does or anything God condones can ever be evil.
GOD CREATING MORTALITY FOR ADAM, AS A PUNNISHMENT FOR BEING DISOBEDIENT:

GENESIS 3:17 'To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you,'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.

18: It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.

19: By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; or dust you are and to dust you will return."
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>So God says slavery is OK.
GOD DID NOT!'Slavery' was just the word that English translators chose.'Slavery' in ancient days was not the same as the cruel slavery that we know today! In those times many people willingly became servants to other people so they wouldn't starve on the streets with no roof over their head.
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>God created morality. God does not lie. Therefore slavery is OK. The fact that many people even most people disagree just shows how far away our society is from God.
NO, the fact that many people disagree that God condoned the cruel slavery you're thinking of, shows how little they know about ancient times and how much the word 'slavery' has been contaminated.
JESUSis

Doncaster East, Australia

#9 Apr 7, 2010
ASK A RABI:

QUESTION: Is it true that if a man rapes a girl he is obliged by the Torah to marry her?!

ANSWER: It’s true…but the rapist is ONLY obligated to marry his victim IF she wants him to – in other words, the law is entirely in her interest and for her benefit: in case she finds herself unable to attract any better choices for marriage. I would imagine that such victims would have only made that choice under very unusual circumstances!

I reckon it was God's way of discouraging men from having sex with a woman without her conscent.
JESUSis

Doncaster East, Australia

#10 Apr 7, 2010
JesusLovesU

East Lansing, MI

#11 Apr 7, 2010
Thinking wrote:
OK, I'll play...
You could be omnipotent and still lie.
To be incapable of lying would mean that you were not omnipotent.
<quoted text>
God is capable of lying but chooses not to because he is honest.
JESUSis wrote:
<quoted text>
GOD CREATING MORTALITY FOR ADAM, AS A PUNNISHMENT FOR BEING DISOBEDIENT:
GENESIS 3:17 'To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you,'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
18: It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.
19: By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; or dust you are and to dust you will return."
That's right. God changed morality as punishment.
GOD DID NOT!'Slavery' was just the word that English translators chose.'Slavery' in ancient days was not the same as the cruel slavery that we know today! In those times many people willingly became servants to other people so they wouldn't starve on the streets with no roof over their head.
<quoted text>
NO, the fact that many people disagree that God condoned the cruel slavery you're thinking of, shows how little they know about ancient times and how much the word 'slavery' has been contaminated.
Nowhere in the BIble does God change the rules of slavery. And the Bible is very clear that slavery of non-Hebrews could be inherented and that slaves were not allowed to leave. It is right because God says it is. If it was just an economic arrangement then it could have been a voluntary "will work for food and housing" arrangement, but if you read scripture it's clear that wasn't what was meant by slavery. Therefore we must conclude that slavery as understood today is sanctioned by God.
Thinking

Europe

#12 Apr 7, 2010
Unfortunately, you'll never be able to prove that for sure in any scenario where you postulate a god that is able to retrospectively alter events to cover their tracks.
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>
God is capable of lying but chooses not to because he is honest.
Punisher

Tuckahoe, NY

#13 Apr 7, 2010
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>
God is capable of lying but chooses not to because he is honest.
<quoted text>
That's right. God changed morality as punishment.
<quoted text>
Nowhere in the BIble does God change the rules of slavery. And the Bible is very clear that slavery of non-Hebrews could be inherented and that slaves were not allowed to leave. It is right because God says it is. If it was just an economic arrangement then it could have been a voluntary "will work for food and housing" arrangement, but if you read scripture it's clear that wasn't what was meant by slavery. Therefore we must conclude that slavery as understood today is sanctioned by God.
didnt jesus alter the game...?
Punisher

Tuckahoe, NY

#14 Apr 7, 2010
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>
He is omnipotent too. There's your answer.
<quoted text>
Then why does the Bible, a book inspired by the almighty say that it is the word of God? It wouldn't say that if it wasn't true, because a book inspired by God tells no lies.
youre reasoning is full of holes.

"inspired" isnt the same as being the direct written word of this god.

no where does the bible say its the direct written word of this god.

“Search For Truth”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#15 Apr 7, 2010
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why does the Bible, a book inspired by the almighty say that it is the word of God? It wouldn't say that if it wasn't true, because a book inspired by God tells no lies.
You are making assumptions which you automatically transform them into facts in order to justify your reasoning.
How do you know that the Bible was inspired by God? If I write a book and say that it is inspired by God would you believe me? Why do you then believe the primitive goatherds who have shown time after time that their writings are flawed?
JesusLovesU

East Lansing, MI

#16 Apr 7, 2010
Thinking wrote:
Unfortunately, you'll never be able to prove that for sure in any scenario where you postulate a god that is able to retrospectively alter events to cover their tracks.
<quoted text>
If God changes the past to match his word then he's not lying, because he knew all along that he would do that.
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
didnt jesus alter the game...?
Yes. In the New Testament he tells slave masters not to beat their slaves too hard if they screw up unintentionally. However, he also reaffirms slavery by telling slaves to obey their masters. For a slave to runaway from his master is a sin.
Alphabet wrote:
<quoted text>
You are making assumptions which you automatically transform them into facts in order to justify your reasoning.
How do you know that the Bible was inspired by God? If I write a book and say that it is inspired by God would you believe me? Why do you then believe the primitive goatherds who have shown time after time that their writings are flawed?
I know the Bible was inspired by God, because God reveals this fact to us in the Bible.

If you write a book, no that wouldn't work. The Bible was written/dictated by God. A book written by you wouldn't prove anything.
feces for jesus

New York, NY

#17 Apr 7, 2010
JesusLovesU wrote:
God created everything so that would include morality. So if God created morality nothing that God does or anything God condones can ever be evil.
So God says slavery is OK. God created morality. God does not lie. Therefore slavery is OK. The fact that many people even most people disagree just shows how far away our society is from God.
God also says for a rapist and his victim to marry, and says that women are subserviant to men. If God says so that's enough for me. He created morality so we should trust in him and his judgement.
When your daughter gets raped, let me know if you're A-Ok with her getting married to a criminal that violated her.
feces for jesus

New York, NY

#18 Apr 7, 2010
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>

Then why does the Bible, a book inspired by the almighty say that it is the word of God? It wouldn't say that if it wasn't true, because a book inspired by God tells no lies.
I didn't realize you were this empty headed and gullible.

Your quote would be perfect for FSTDT.com
Thinking

Europe

#19 Apr 7, 2010
Wrong. Being able to manipulate everything is not the same thing as being honest at all, but nice try nonetheless.

Anyway, I don't really care, that god doesn't exist, and you're only Poeing.
JesusLovesU wrote:
<quoted text>
If God changes the past to match his word then he's not lying, because he knew all along that he would do that.
Reality Check

New York, NY

#20 Apr 7, 2010
JESUSis wrote:
<quoted text>
GOD CREATING MORTALITY FOR ADAM, AS A PUNNISHMENT FOR BEING DISOBEDIENT:
GENESIS 3:17 'To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you,'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
18: It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.
19: By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; or dust you are and to dust you will return."
Adam did no wrong. If there was no such thing as sin then there is no way that Adam could have known that something was wrong. Even if God said "do not eat the apple" without sin Adam didn't know that disobeying was wrong. Nor would he know that a talking snake could lie to him. In this story God set up Adam to fail by not equipping him with the ability to truly understand that what he was doing was wrong. Therefore to punish him for it would be illogical. A perfect God would not be illogical so therefore a perfect God would not have set up these rules nor the punishment in such a manner.

But of course you will not get this. To you it is already fact, no need to actually consider it. Just keep trucking along with blinders on.

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