If there was no God...
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“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#1 Feb 25, 2013
I think the fact that atheists try to stake the sole claim to reason and logic is absurd. If you really use reason and logic you will realise that it is just plain common sense that God exists. If there is no God then a person's life means nothing. There would be no point to existence. You would be nothing more than a chemical reaction here one day and gone the next. One day you will die and eventually everyone who knew you will die and so on. No one will remember you and no one will care who you were or what you did in life. Everything you went through in life was for nothing. Enduring through the hard times. Loving another human being. All of your hopes and dreams. In the end none of it mattered. You did it for no reason at all.

And if there was no God then there would be no morality. No morality then no law. All is permited. But we do have morals and we do have the law. That shows that we know right from wrong. But if there was no God then there would be no such thing as right and wrong. No good or evil. But good and evil exist so God must exist.

And why is there structure and order in the universe if there is no God that designed it that way? The fragile balance to life on earth. The food chain. The way the planets orbit the sun. The fact that our planet is in just the right position to support life. I refuse to attribute it to luck and chance. There is just no way. It is just too big to be coincidence.

If there is no God then we are not held accountable for our actions during life. That would mean people like Hitler and Stalin got off scot free. And what about the miracles that happen every day? A baby being picked up by a tornado miles in the air and thrown,smacking into the ground and lives. People focus so much on the bad things and use them to deny God but nobody wants to look at the good that happens.

I don't know. These are all just a few examples. There is so much more I could say but I think if people really want to know then they will find out for themselves.

Roland_Deschain

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

UK

#2 Feb 26, 2013
Valerian777 wrote:
I think the fact that atheists try to stake the sole claim to reason and logic is absurd. If you really use reason and logic you will realise that it is just plain common sense that God exists. If there is no God then a person's life means nothing. There would be no point to existence. You would be nothing more than a chemical reaction here one day and gone the next. One day you will die and eventually everyone who knew you will die and so on. No one will remember you and no one will care who you were or what you did in life. Everything you went through in life was for nothing. Enduring through the hard times. Loving another human being. All of your hopes and dreams. In the end none of it mattered. You did it for no reason at all.
And if there was no God then there would be no morality. No morality then no law. All is permited. But we do have morals and we do have the law. That shows that we know right from wrong. But if there was no God then there would be no such thing as right and wrong. No good or evil. But good and evil exist so God must exist.
And why is there structure and order in the universe if there is no God that designed it that way? The fragile balance to life on earth. The food chain. The way the planets orbit the sun. The fact that our planet is in just the right position to support life. I refuse to attribute it to luck and chance. There is just no way. It is just too big to be coincidence.
If there is no God then we are not held accountable for our actions during life. That would mean people like Hitler and Stalin got off scot free. And what about the miracles that happen every day? A baby being picked up by a tornado miles in the air and thrown,smacking into the ground and lives. People focus so much on the bad things and use them to deny God but nobody wants to look at the good that happens.
I don't know. These are all just a few examples. There is so much more I could say but I think if people really want to know then they will find out for themselves.
Hello Jeff

Everything in your post above has already been addressed on numerous occasions. Changing your name and re-posting will not change things.

“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#3 Feb 26, 2013
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Jeff
Everything in your post above has already been addressed on numerous occasions. Changing your name and re-posting will not change things.
Excuse me? My name is not Jeff and how can everything in my post be already addressed when this is the first time I have posted it? Someone else may have posted something similar but this is only one of two topics I have ever started so far. I'm new to topix and internet forums in general and what you said is just strange to me. So far everyone I have talked to has been fine but I don't know about you. I'm not a guy named Jeff. Sorry.

Roland_Deschain

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

UK

#4 Feb 26, 2013
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me? My name is not Jeff and how can everything in my post be already addressed when this is the first time I have posted it? Someone else may have posted something similar but this is only one of two topics I have ever started so far. I'm new to topix and internet forums in general and what you said is just strange to me. So far everyone I have talked to has been fine but I don't know about you. I'm not a guy named Jeff. Sorry.
I'm not convinced, however, I will post a response to your opening post.

Roland_Deschain

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

UK

#5 Feb 26, 2013
Valerian777 wrote:
I think the fact that atheists try to stake the sole claim to reason and logic is absurd. If you really use reason and logic you will realise that it is just plain common sense that God exists.
Why believe something exists without evidence for that something? Your world-view is based on religious faith. If you had evidence Christianity would not be a religion and would not be based on faith.
Valerian777 wrote:
If there is no God then a person's life means nothing. There would be no point to existence.
Life is what one makes of it. We are all free to give it whatever meaning we choose.
Valerian777 wrote:
You would be nothing more than a chemical reaction here one day and gone the next. One day you will die and eventually everyone who knew you will die and so on. No one will remember you and no one will care who you were or what you did in life. Everything you went through in life was for nothing. Enduring through the hard times. Loving another human being. All of your hopes and dreams. In the end none of it mattered. You did it for no reason at all.
It is impossible to live our lives in complete isolation. Consequently many of our actions do have an impact on those around us,especially where family, friends, pets, work colleagues, etc are concerned. Sure, we will eventually be forgotten when we die. So what? All that matters is what happens while we are alive.
Valerian777 wrote:
And if there was no God then there would be no morality. No morality then no law. All is permited. But we do have morals and we do have the law. That shows that we know right from wrong. But if there was no God then there would be no such thing as right and wrong. No good or evil. But good and evil exist so God must exist.
Morality has it's roots in evolution, which is a natural process. Also, morality is not fixed. It varies between societies and individuals. The morality of the fifties (for example) is very different from the morality of today.
Valerian777 wrote:
And why is there structure and order in the universe if there is no God that designed it that way? The fragile balance to life on earth. The food chain. The way the planets orbit the sun. The fact that our planet is in just the right position to support life. I refuse to attribute it to luck and chance. There is just no way. It is just too big to be coincidence.
Well the design is not THAT clever is it? There are plenty of places here on earth where it's extremely difficult for us to survive. As for out in space, off you go..........

Valerian777 wrote:
If there is no God then we are not held accountable for our actions during life. That would mean people like Hitler and Stalin got off scot free.
Secular law is the mechanism by which we are held accountable.
Valerian777 wrote:
And what about the miracles that happen every day? A baby being picked up by a tornado miles in the air and thrown,smacking into the ground and lives.
Now you are just grasping at straws. Weird stuff happens all the time. Big deal. There is no need to invoke the supernatural.
Valerian777 wrote:
People focus so much on the bad things and use them to deny God but nobody wants to look at the good that happens.
Perhaps people are atheists because there is no evidence for your (or any) deity?

“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#7 Feb 26, 2013
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not convinced, however, I will post a response to your opening post.
This is too weird! I have never been accused of being someone else before. If someone changes their name on a forum for the purpose of deceiving others then that person officially has no life. But rather than writing you off as delusional I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Apparently you have experienced someone changing their screen name and trying to trick people? I really could care less that you are not convinced. Who are you? I don't know you and you definitely don't know the first thing about me. You don't know where I have been or what I have been through or what I'm about. I don't know what else to tell you other than look at my profile or something. I'm not who you think I am.

“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#8 Feb 26, 2013
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
Why believe something exists without evidence for that something? Your world-view is based on religious faith. If you had evidence Christianity would not be a religion and would not be based on faith.
<quoted text>
Life is what one makes of it. We are all free to give it whatever meaning we choose.
<quoted text>
It is impossible to live our lives in complete isolation. Consequently many of our actions do have an impact on those around us,especially where family, friends, pets, work colleagues, etc are concerned. Sure, we will eventually be forgotten when we die. So what? All that matters is what happens while we are alive.
<quoted text>
Morality has it's roots in evolution, which is a natural process. Also, morality is not fixed. It varies between societies and individuals. The morality of the fifties (for example) is very different from the morality of today.
<quoted text>
Well the design is not THAT clever is it? There are plenty of places here on earth where it's extremely difficult for us to survive. As for out in space, off you go..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =4238NN8HMgQXX
<quoted text>
Secular law is the mechanism by which we are held accountable.
<quoted text>
Now you are just grasping at straws. Weird stuff happens all the time. Big deal. There is no need to invoke the supernatural.
<quoted text>
Perhaps people are atheists because there is no evidence for your (or any) deity?
This is why I came to topix. I have a lot inside my head that needs to come out. I want to share my beliefs and learn about other people's beliefs. I haven't actually read all of this yet I just wanted to say that real quick.

John from Texas

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

United States

#9 Feb 26, 2013
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
This is why I came to topix. I have a lot inside my head that needs to come out. I want to share my beliefs and learn about other people's beliefs. I haven't actually read all of this yet I just wanted to say that real quick.
I don't think you are Jeff.
I think there is an invisible but spiritually tangible connection to all things. That could be what God is, but because the nature of God is really incomprehensible for the human mind, it is just a concept. We should believe what makes us more compassionate and caring people. Our connection the that Great Spirit is an individual one. No belief is necessarily better than the other.
If it works go for it, just don't stop searching for one's "right" way.
My best guess so far is that God is All and All is God. The Universe is one big organism of which we are all part. I could be wrong though. I don't believe in that Christian belief in heaven and hell. They are in the here and now depending on how one lives their life.

You write better than Jeff in my opinion.

Roland_Deschain

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

UK

#10 Feb 26, 2013
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
This is too weird!
If you think this is weird wait until you have been posting on Topix for a while.
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never been accused of being someone else before. If someone changes their name on a forum for the purpose of deceiving others then that person officially has no life.
There are lots of people here who post using more than one identity. The extra identities are known as 'sock puppets' or 'socks'. This link explains why.

http://tinyurl.com/35a2x5
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
But rather than writing you off as delusional I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Given your belief in the supernatural I find your use of the word 'delusional' rather ironic.
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently you have experienced someone changing their screen name and trying to trick people?
Indeed. You will too. It's usually (but not always) the swivel eyed, drooling, livestock bothering fundie Christians.
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
I really could care less that you are not convinced.
You care enough to comment on it.
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
Who are you? I don't know you and you definitely don't know the first thing about me. You don't know where I have been or what I have been through or what I'm about. I don't know what else to tell you other than look at my profile or something. I'm not who you think I am.
I have looked at your profile. Have you looked at mine?

“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#11 Feb 26, 2013
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
Why believe something exists without evidence for that something? Your world-view is based on religious faith. If you had evidence Christianity would not be a religion and would not be based on faith.
<quoted text>
Life is what one makes of it. We are all free to give it whatever meaning we choose.
<quoted text>
It is impossible to live our lives in complete isolation. Consequently many of our actions do have an impact on those around us,especially where family, friends, pets, work colleagues, etc are concerned. Sure, we will eventually be forgotten when we die. So what? All that matters is what happens while we are alive.
<quoted text>
Morality has it's roots in evolution, which is a natural process. Also, morality is not fixed. It varies between societies and individuals. The morality of the fifties (for example) is very different from the morality of today.
<quoted text>
Well the design is not THAT clever is it? There are plenty of places here on earth where it's extremely difficult for us to survive. As for out in space, off you go..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =4238NN8HMgQXX
<quoted text>
Secular law is the mechanism by which we are held accountable.
<quoted text>
Now you are just grasping at straws. Weird stuff happens all the time. Big deal. There is no need to invoke the supernatural.
<quoted text>
Perhaps people are atheists because there is no evidence for your (or any) deity?
I think it all boils down to how someone views the world. Evolutionist and creationist scientists actually have the same pieces of evidence. There is no lack of evidence for either side. It is just that evidence has to be interpreted and we interpret that evidence based on our world views. And it isn't that creationists deny evolution. We just deny macro evolution. The whole molecules to man thing. A grizzly bear and a polar bear have evolved or adapted to their individual environments. They are different but of the same kind. They are still bears and will never become anything other than a bear. That is micro evolution and the fossil record is full of examples for it. But where are the examples of micro evolution? Where is the transitional form of an ape evolving into a man? The missing link people talk about. And reptiles evolving into birds? There aren't any examples of this ever happening and the ones that have popped up later turned out to be hoaxes. And even if macro evolution was true why does that disprove God? Why would that mean he doesn't exist? That is all I'm going to say on evolution because it isn't my area of expertise. That is just my opinion on it.

My world view isn't based on religion. I think you have some misunderstandings about christianity. True christianity isn't about religion it is about living your life according to the example of Jesus Christ. It's about atonement and service to God not rituals and trinkets. And it isn't based on blind faith. It is based on biblical fact. The bible really is true. It's history and prophecies have already been proven to be true and those who say otherwise just don't know any better. Anyone can find out for themselves if they really want to know.

I think atheists write the bible off as a book of myths because you aren't thinking outside the box. You are only reading what is on the surface instead of looking deeper into it. When you read about the serpent tempting eve in the garden you see a myth about a talking snake tricking eve into eating a majic fruit. But what it really is is the story about the beginning of man's rebellion against God and how sin and suffering entered the world. The serpent is symbolic of a trickster. A deciever. The devil lucifer. The fruit was not a majic fruit. It was the act of disobediance to God. Man was told to not be a partaker in this fruit of "knowlege of good and evil." It was forbidden knowlege we weren't supposed to have. At least that is how I interpret it.

“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#12 Feb 26, 2013
it won't let me post my reply

“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#13 Feb 26, 2013
I think it all boils down to how someone views the world. Evolutionist and creationist scientists actually have the same pieces of evidence. There is no lack of evidence for either side. It is just that evidence has to be interpreted and we interpret that evidence based on our world views. And it isn't that creationists deny evolution. We just deny macro evolution. The whole molecules to man thing. A grizzly bear and a polar bear have evolved or adapted to their individual environments. They are different but of the same kind. They are still bears and will never become anything other than a bear. That is micro evolution and the fossil record is full of examples for it. But where are the examples of micro evolution? Where is the transitional form of an ape evolving into a man? The missing link people talk about. And reptiles evolving into birds? There aren't any examples of this ever happening and the ones that have popped up later turned out to be hoaxes. And even if macro evolution was true why does that disprove God? Why would that mean he doesn't exist? That is all I'm going to say on evolution because it isn't my area of expertise. That is just my opinion on it.

My world view isn't based on religion. I think you have some misunderstandings about christianity. True christianity isn't about religion it is about living your life according to the example of Jesus Christ. It's about atonement and service to God not rituals and trinkets. And it isn't based on blind faith. It is based on biblical fact. The bible really is true. It's history and prophecies have already been proven to be true and those who say otherwise just don't know any better. Anyone can find out for themselves if they really want to know.

I think atheists write the bible off as a book of myths because you aren't thinking outside the box. You are only reading what is on the surface instead of looking deeper into it. When you read about the serpent tempting eve in the garden you see a myth about a talking snake tricking eve into eating a majic fruit. But what it really is is the story about the beginning of man's rebellion against God and how sin and suffering entered the world. The serpent is symbolic of a trickster. A deciever. The devil lucifer. The fruit was not a majic fruit. It was the act of disobediance to God. Man was told to not be a partaker in this fruit of "knowlege of good and evil." It was forbidden knowlege we weren't supposed to have. At least that is how I interpret it.

“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#14 Feb 26, 2013
There. That reply is to Roland_Deschain
gaccat

Rochester, PA

#15 Feb 26, 2013

Questioning a Period of no God

Roland_Deschain

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

UK

#16 Feb 26, 2013
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolutionist and creationist scientists actually have the same pieces of evidence.
Creationism is not science.

"In the legal case Kitzmiller v. Dover, tried in 2005 in a Harrisburg, PA, Federal District Court, "intelligent design" was found to be a form of creationism, and therefore, unconstitutional to teach in American public schools."

http://ncse.com/creationism/legal/intelligent...
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no lack of evidence for either side.
There is overwhelming evidence for evolution. There is no evidence for creationism.
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
And it isn't that creationists deny evolution. We just deny macro evolution.
What is to prevent many small changes causing a large change? If macro evolution is not possible how are offspring prevented from inheriting their parent's characteristics? How are random mutations blocked? At what point do these processes kick in?
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
The whole molecules to man thing. A grizzly bear and a polar bear have evolved or adapted to their individual environments. They are different but of the same kind. They are still bears and will never become anything other than a bear....
Perhaps you should do some research. Use science sites rather than apologetic sites.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fos...
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-...
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
And even if macro evolution was true why does that disprove God? Why would that mean he doesn't exist?
I don't view evolution as a means to disprove your deity.
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is all I'm going to say on evolution because it isn't my area of expertise. That is just my opinion on it.
So you are arguing from a position of ignorance?
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
My world view isn't based on religion. I think you have some misunderstandings about christianity. True christianity isn't about religion it is about living your life according to the example of Jesus Christ. It's about atonement and service to God not rituals and trinkets.
I live in England, a country within the United Kingdom. Our state RELIGION (supported by our government via the taxpayer) is Christianity.
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
And it isn't based on blind faith. It is based on biblical fact. The bible really is true. It's history and prophecies have already been proven to be true and those who say otherwise just don't know any better. Anyone can find out for themselves if they really want to know.
Christianity is a religion based on religious faith. If you had evidence you would be providing links rather than masturbating with words.
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think atheists write the bible off as a book of myths because you aren't thinking outside the
box. You are only reading what is on the surface instead of looking deeper into it. When you read about the serpent tempting eve in the garden you see a myth about a talking snake tricking eve into eating a majic fruit. But what it really is is the story about the beginning of man's rebellion against God and how sin and suffering entered the world..
My world-view is not a result of reading the bible and I'm not interested in discussing it or it's contents.

"I prefer to place trust and confidence in science based on the procedures and controls it has in place - ie empirical evidence, falsifiability, reproducibility, peer-review, etc when attempting to understand the world around me. I have a naturalistic world view ( http://www.naturalism.org )- I cannot know for certain but I think the supernatural is extremely improbable and I live my life under the assumption it does not exist."

“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#17 Feb 27, 2013
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
Creationism is not science.
"In the legal case Kitzmiller v. Dover, tried in 2005 in a Harrisburg, PA, Federal District Court, "intelligent design" was found to be a form of creationism, and therefore, unconstitutional to teach in American public schools."
http://ncse.com/creationism/legal/intelligent...
<quoted text>
There is overwhelming evidence for evolution. There is no evidence for creationism.
<quoted text>
What is to prevent many small changes causing a large change? If macro evolution is not possible how are offspring prevented from inheriting their parent's characteristics? How are random mutations blocked? At what point do these processes kick in?
<quoted text>
Perhaps you should do some research. Use science sites rather than apologetic sites.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fos...
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-...
<quoted text>
I don't view evolution as a means to disprove your deity.
<quoted text>
So you are arguing from a position of ignorance?
<quoted text>
I live in England, a country within the United Kingdom. Our state RELIGION (supported by our government via the taxpayer) is Christianity.
<quoted text>
Christianity is a religion based on religious faith. If you had evidence you would be providing links rather than masturbating with words.
<quoted text>
My world-view is not a result of reading the bible and I'm not interested in discussing it or it's contents.
"I prefer to place trust and confidence in science based on the procedures and controls it has in place - ie empirical evidence, falsifiability, reproducibility, peer-review, etc when attempting to understand the world around me. I have a naturalistic world view ( http://www.naturalism.org )- I cannot know for certain but I think the supernatural is extremely improbable and I live my life under the assumption it does not exist."
Did you even think about anything I said or were you just skimming through it waiting to give an automated response like a robot? Do you have your own reason for believing what you do or are you just going with the flow swallowing what the secular "intellectuals" feed you because they are in a position of authority? You owe it to yourself as a human being to find the truth. If you have come to your conclusions after heart felt searching and personal experience then so be it. You won't be convinced of anything else. But if you are only going with it because it was what was taught to you in school then I think that is unfortunate. No one single worldview should be presented to children in schools. People need to be allowed to decide for themselves what makes more sense to them and not be told what they must believe.

If creationism and intelligent design are not science then why are there scientists who believe in creation and intelligent design? Who gets to say what is science and what isn't? If it is a board of atheists then that is a form of fascism. If it was a board of creationists that too would be fascism. One group with the same worldview gets to have the monopoly on what is science? Science is about discovery and not about promoting one worldview and suppressing another. If this is what is going on then it needs to stop. I'm a militiaman. I know what is unconstitutional and it is unconstitutional to deny someone the right to be a scientist because he/she has a differing opinion from the majority.

There is no evidence for creation? That is all a matter of opinion. I see DNA and think there is no way that there isn't a higher intelligence behind it. The human body? Our brain? I see it as something forged. Something fashioned. Something meant to be the way it is and not the product of nothing.

“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#18 Feb 27, 2013
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
Creationism is not science.
"In the legal case Kitzmiller v. Dover, tried in 2005 in a Harrisburg, PA, Federal District Court, "intelligent design" was found to be a form of creationism, and therefore, unconstitutional to teach in American public schools."
http://ncse.com/creationism/legal/intelligent...
<quoted text>
There is overwhelming evidence for evolution. There is no evidence for creationism.
<quoted text>
What is to prevent many small changes causing a large change? If macro evolution is not possible how are offspring prevented from inheriting their parent's characteristics? How are random mutations blocked? At what point do these processes kick in?
<quoted text>
Perhaps you should do some research. Use science sites rather than apologetic sites.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fos...
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-...
<quoted text>
I don't view evolution as a means to disprove your deity.
<quoted text>
So you are arguing from a position of ignorance?
<quoted text>
I live in England, a country within the United Kingdom. Our state RELIGION (supported by our government via the taxpayer) is Christianity.
<quoted text>
Christianity is a religion based on religious faith. If you had evidence you would be providing links rather than masturbating with words.
<quoted text>
My world-view is not a result of reading the bible and I'm not interested in discussing it or it's contents.
"I prefer to place trust and confidence in science based on the procedures and controls it has in place - ie empirical evidence, falsifiability, reproducibility, peer-review, etc when attempting to understand the world around me. I have a naturalistic world view ( http://www.naturalism.org )- I cannot know for certain but I think the supernatural is extremely improbable and I live my life under the assumption it does not exist."
If you want links I can give you links. I have my own answers. I didn't get them from any apologetics web site. Why do you assume that? But sure I can give you links. If you'll actually use them with an open mind. And not apologetic sites either. But research, expeditions, and science based on the intelligent design worldview.
I said TRUE christianity is not about religion. Your state religion is the work of men. All religion is the work of men. The real church is the body of Christ. The fellowship of believers. Not a building. Not traditions or rituals. And not placing human beings on any level of holiness.

“Don't tread on me”

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#19 Feb 27, 2013
Roland_Deschain wrote:
<quoted text>
Creationism is not science.
"In the legal case Kitzmiller v. Dover, tried in 2005 in a Harrisburg, PA, Federal District Court, "intelligent design" was found to be a form of creationism, and therefore, unconstitutional to teach in American public schools."
http://ncse.com/creationism/legal/intelligent...
<quoted text>
There is overwhelming evidence for evolution. There is no evidence for creationism.
<quoted text>
What is to prevent many small changes causing a large change? If macro evolution is not possible how are offspring prevented from inheriting their parent's characteristics? How are random mutations blocked? At what point do these processes kick in?
<quoted text>
Perhaps you should do some research. Use science sites rather than apologetic sites.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fos...
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-...
<quoted text>
I don't view evolution as a means to disprove your deity.
<quoted text>
So you are arguing from a position of ignorance?
<quoted text>
I live in England, a country within the United Kingdom. Our state RELIGION (supported by our government via the taxpayer) is Christianity.
<quoted text>
Christianity is a religion based on religious faith. If you had evidence you would be providing links rather than masturbating with words.
<quoted text>
My world-view is not a result of reading the bible and I'm not interested in discussing it or it's contents.
"I prefer to place trust and confidence in science based on the procedures and controls it has in place - ie empirical evidence, falsifiability, reproducibility, peer-review, etc when attempting to understand the world around me. I have a naturalistic world view ( http://www.naturalism.org )- I cannot know for certain but I think the supernatural is extremely improbable and I live my life under the assumption it does not exist."
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

http://www.icr.org/

http://www.creationsciencetoday.com/

Roland_Deschain

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

UK

#20 Feb 27, 2013
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you even think about anything I said or were you just skimming through it waiting to give an automated response like a robot?
Did you bother to read beyond - "Creationism is not science" in my previous post? Did you bother to follow the link to the trial transcript? I'll lay a pound to a penny you did not.
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have your own reason for believing what you do or are you just going with the flow swallowing what the secular "intellectuals" feed you because they are in a position of authority? You owe it to yourself as a human being to find the truth. If you have come to your conclusions after heart felt searching and personal experience then so be it. You won't be convinced of anything else. But if you are only going with it because it was what was taught to you in school then I think that is unfortunate. No one single worldview should be presented to children in schools. People need to be allowed to decide for themselves what makes more sense to them and not be told what they must believe.
I have had sixty plus years to consider my position. How long have you had to consider yours? Have you EVER thought for yourself or has it just being a case of blindly accepting apologetics nonsense?
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
If creationism and intelligent design are not science then why are there scientists who believe in creation and intelligent design?
Yes,there are scientists who BELIEVE in creationism / intelligent design. This does not make creationism / ID science.

More about how science works here.

http://tinyurl.com/a4dsqcu
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
Who gets to say what is science and what isn't? If it is a board of atheists then that is a form of fascism. If it was a board of creationists that too would be fascism. One group with the same worldview gets to have the monopoly on what is science? Science is about discovery and not about promoting one worldview and suppressing another. If this is what is going on then it needs to stop..
The scientific community. Scientists have all sorts of religious beliefs. When they are 'doing science' they leave (or should do) those beliefs OUTSIDE their laboratories. The person responsible for the "Big Bang Theory" (for example) was a Catholioc priest - Georges Lemaître.

"Lemaître was then invited to London in order to take part in a meeting of the British Association on the relation between the physical Universe and spirituality. There he proposed that the Universe expanded from an initial point, which he called the "Primeval Atom" and developed in a report published in Nature.[14] Lemaître himself also described his theory as "the Cosmic Egg exploding at the moment of the creation"; it became better known as the "Big Bang theory," a pejorative term coined by Fred Hoyle who was a proponent of the static universe."

He kept his religious beliefs seperate from his science.

"In 1951, when Pope Pius XII tried to use his theory as a justification for Creationism, Lemaitre resented.[16] In fact, he convinced the Pope to stop making proclamations about cosmology.[17] While a devoted Roman Catholic, he was against mixing science with religion.[18]"

http://tinyurl.com/2ysq4b
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no evidence for creation? That is all a matter of opinion. I see DNA and think there is no way that there isn't a higher intelligence behind it. The human body? Our brain? I see it as something forged. Something fashioned. Something meant to be the way it is and not the product of nothing.
This is not evidence. You are seeing something you do not understand and then invoking the supernatural to explain it. By saying 'goddidit' you are actually contradicting yourself. You are saying "I don't know" followed by "but I do know". What is wrong with just saying "I don't know" and leaving it at that?

Roland_Deschain

“Naturalism - Nature is Enough”

Since: Nov 07

UK

#21 Feb 27, 2013
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you want links I can give you links. I have my own answers. I didn't get them from any apologetics web site. Why do you assume that? But sure I can give you links. If you'll actually use them with an open mind. And not apologetic sites either. But research, expeditions, and science based on the intelligent design worldview.
I've seen your links.
Valerian777 wrote:
I've taken a quote from the last one - http://www.creationsciencetoday.com/

"Evolutionists believe the Big Bang created the universe out of nothing"

Evolution is about explaining how life developed AFTER it had started. It does not have anything to do with explaining how the universe was formed. This is dealt with by branch of science called Cosmology.

The Big Bang Theory explains how the CURRENT universe was created. It does not claim the universe was created from nothing.

"10–40 billion years ago; our solar system was formed 5 billion years ago; single-celled organisms formed from an unknown primordial inorganic soup 3–4 billion years ago; multicellular organisms slowly evolved 1 billion years ago; humans evolved from higher life forms 185,000 to 2 million years ago; and modern civilization emerged within the last 5,000–6,000 years"

It would be hard to get this part wrong :-} There is a timeline for the Big Bang here - http://patrickgrant.com/BBTL.htm however, there is no mention of modern civilizations. Probably because this does not have anything to do with the formation of the uiniverse.

"Creationists believe the straightforward interpretation of Scripture—the earth and all living things were supernaturally created in six solar days by the God of the Bible about 6,000 years ago."

The important word here is BELIEVE. This is quite clearly religious belief based on the supernatural. There is observable, physical evidence supporting the Big Bang Theory.
Valerian777 wrote:
<quoted text>
I said TRUE christianity is not about religion. Your state religion is the work of men. All religion is the work of men. The real church is the body of Christ. The fellowship of believers. Not a building. Not traditions or rituals. And not placing human beings on any level of holiness.
True Christianity? ROFLMHO. The CofE was around long before your country was settled and long before your version/interpretation of Christianity appeared.

"The roots of the Church of England go back to the time of the Roman Empire when Christianity entered the Roman province of Britain. Through the influences of St Alban, St Illtud, St Ninian, St Patrick and, later, St Augustine, St Aidan and St Cuthbert, the Church of England developed, acknowledging the authority of the Pope until the Reformation in the 16th century."

http://www.churchofengland.org/about-us/histo...

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