catherine

High Wycombe, UK

#2997 Jan 20, 2013
i am looking into whether there is a trinity and by reading and comparing several bible translations i have come to not believe that God, Jesus and the holy spirit are not the same. Although many people understandably believe this is major point in religion I believe that understanding God's love for us all and living by Jesus' example is the most important factor that the bible teaches.

Since: Dec 09

Calgary, Canada

#2998 Jan 20, 2013
catherine wrote:
i am looking into whether there is a trinity and by reading and comparing several bible translations i have come to not believe that God, Jesus and the holy spirit are not the same. Although many people understandably believe this is major point in religion I believe that understanding God's love for us all and living by Jesus' example is the most important factor that the bible teaches.
.
I can agree with you that understanding G-d's love and following in the example of Yeshua are worthy goals, but the most important thing is to be "born again". Yeshua counceled a religious man who knew about G-d and even G-d's love that for him to perceive or enter the kingdom he needed to be "born again".This is done by believing that Yeshua has the authority to forgive your sins and that he died in your place. If you are trusting in his atoning work you will receive the promise of the Holy Spirit, which is G-d indwelling you. As to the Trinity, there is no record of any apostle teaching the Trinity. That said I feel it is important that we strive to know G-d and his nature. When I became "born again" I had no knowledge of the Trinity so based upon that I don't think it is a requirement. That said it is important to believe what we are told about G-d. If we resist the scripture we resist G-d himself.
paul

Suri, India

#2999 Jan 27, 2013
my friend, jesus was speaking to first century jews, where they already have a concept of god as jahovah (god the father). so, jesus going to them and saying I AM GOD AND WORSHIP ME. makes no sense and this would be a foolish thing saying i am god with out any qualification and proof. so, first gave proof by miracles and wonders and signs, like heeling the sick, giving site to born blind and raising the dead and demonstrated his power and authority towards creation. jesus said in john 8:54, if i honour my self by telling who i am, my our self honour is nothing, i honouring myself is nothing great, but the one whom u call as god the father, he is the one who honours me. and that is why in hebrew 1:8, god the father himself honoured and said about jesus, that, your throne oh GOD is forever and ever. even though u may ask, no brother u must show where jesus said i am god. then let me tell you some thing brother, when jesus resurrected himself from dead by proving that death has no power over him and he is the living god. in revlation 1:17,18 and revlation 22:12,13, no doubt if u read these two verses, u will definately come to know that the speaker is jesus himself. now the same speaker speakes in revlation 21:6,7. by saying, i will be his GOD and he shall be my son. jesus said this in his own words, bcoz the speaker is jesus christ himself. so i proved that jesus is the true living god. please brother it is not the matter of winning or loosing, it is the matter of our own life and soul, and we must know the true god, who can lead us to our resting place that is heaven. so, pray and ask jesus, then jesus will show himself to you. may lord jesus bless you n protect you from all evil spirits and guard u to his holy spirit. god bless you take care my beloved brother

Since: Jan 13

Europe

#3000 Jan 27, 2013
Hi Paul ::)
I disagree with you on some points...
The miracles Jesus did were because of his father who gave him power by his spirit. They do not prove any deity. Acts 2:22 and Acts 10:38 rule out any honest attempt to prove Christ's deity from miracles as it attributes them to his God and father.
The translation of Hebrews 1:8 in the KJV is also widely recognized as wrong, it gives God a God. It should accurately read 'God is your throne' or 'Your divine throne is to the ages of the ages'.
Further the speaker of Revelation 21:6-7 is clearly God himself. There is no indication there that the one on the throne is Christ.
Good evening and God bless!

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#3001 Jan 27, 2013
Steonaer wrote:
...The translation of Hebrews 1:8 in the KJV is also widely recognized as wrong, it gives God a God. It should accurately read 'God is your throne' or 'Your divine throne is to the ages of the ages'.
<><
Nonsense. It is widely argued that Heb 1:8 in the KJV is wrong.
Further the speaker of Revelation 21:6-7 is clearly God himself. There is no indication there that the one on the throne is Christ.
Good evening and God bless!
<><
How many "THE beginning and the end, THE first and last can there be?
<><
Rev 22:13-16
(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Cat litter

Fayetteville, NC

#3002 Jan 27, 2013
Oh it's pretty obvious that Yeshuah wasn't G-d, I mean, he clearly states that in the Gospels.

But then the average x-tian, instead of taking Yeshuah's word at face value, will say "Oh, but if we take this verse, add it to that one, and then include this one, we can reach the conslusion that Yeshuah was G-d", lol.

According to xtians, Yeshuah was G-d and sent himself to earth, prayed to himself...and suicided himself for your sins?

lol

Shalom,

Since: Jan 13

Europe

#3003 Jan 27, 2013
We must understand that Christ existed as the plan and purpose (Logos) of God, by which Logos God brings the beginning and the end.
There is only ONE first and last in the primary sense. But since Christ is his word/purpose made flesh, he himself can claim the qualities of God's creative expression, the logos, secondarily.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#3004 Jan 28, 2013
Normal Flora wrote:
<quoted text>Blessed are the gullible, for they fill the pews and the collection plates.
And escape the eternal Hell fire.
socci

Lawson, MO

#3005 Jan 28, 2013

According to the Godhead Jesus is God.


John 1:1-3,10,11 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came to his own, and his own received him not.


1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


Rv.22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last...I Jesus have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#3006 Jan 28, 2013
socci wrote:
According to the Godhead Jesus is God.
John 1:1-3,10,11 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came to his own, and his own received him not.
1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Rv.22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last...I Jesus have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches.
<><
I agree, despite the cowardly judge it icons at the top of your post.

“Google Operation Northwoods”

Since: Aug 10

** 9-11 was an inside job **

#3007 Jan 28, 2013
Jesus is not God. He even said so...
"The Father is greater than I"

John 14:28 -["You heard me say,'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER THAN I.
.
Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
.
Who was Jesus talking to when he prayed to the Father, himself?
Jesus sits at the right hand of God is another proof. He is God's lamb sitting before the throne of God.
.
Why did he never say "I am God"
.
Satan called him the son of God not God.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#3008 Jan 28, 2013
Timesten wrote:
Jesus is not God. He even said so...
"The Father is greater than I"
John 14:28 -["You heard me say,'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER THAN I.
.
Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
.
Who was Jesus talking to when he prayed to the Father, himself?
Jesus sits at the right hand of God is another proof. He is God's lamb sitting before the throne of God.
.
Why did he never say "I am God"
.
Satan called him the son of God not God.
<><
Why oh why didn't Jesus say, "I am God?" Look what happened when he only said I am the son of God. They tried to kill him in the temple and they did arrange to have him killed when he said in to the Sanhedrin. If he came claiming to be God his mission would have been over before it was even started.

Since: Dec 09

Calgary, Canada

#3009 Jan 28, 2013
Cat litter wrote:
Oh it's pretty obvious that Yeshuah wasn't G-d, I mean, he clearly states that in the Gospels.
But then the average x-tian, instead of taking Yeshuah's word at face value, will say "Oh, but if we take this verse, add it to that one, and then include this one, we can reach the conslusion that Yeshuah was G-d", lol.
According to xtians, Yeshuah was G-d and sent himself to earth, prayed to himself...and suicided himself for your sins?
lol
Shalom,
.
The reason verses are added together is; there no section in the Bible teaching who the Messiah is. We know what we do about him by piecing together the things said about the Messiah in the TNK and the testimony of those who were taught and lived with him.
.
If you can't believe what his disciples wrote about him, then we have very little to go on. That mean's we can't take Yeshua's words at face value because we can't believe the testimony of his disciples who are the only ones who quote him besides one snipet in the Talmud which quotes him saying he didn't come to destroy the law - Shabbath 116b.
.
The scripture tells us plainly that the child given in Is 9:6 has an everlasting kingdom and that he will be called G-d. Micah 5:2 tells us his ways are from ages past which is also taught by the Talmud that his days were from before the sun (San 98B).
.
Yeshua himself told us that when "you have seen me you have seen the Father" and this is echoed by the writer of Hebrews who says it this way: Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
.
We are also told that he is the creator of all things.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: This means he created G-d's throne.
.
We are also told he has all authority.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. This is also echoed in: Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
.
Now we know G-d the Father does not have a hand and he is invisible. Standing on the right hand of G-d is a phrase which tells of his absolute power. We have this motif many times in the TNK where is talks of the arm of the Lord. This arm is revealed in Is 53:1 where it describes who this power of G-d is. It is echoed in:
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
.
Did G-d lose his power and wisdom in Christ? I think not.
.
John tells us plainly also: Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
.
How many ways does it need to be said that the Messiah is G-d?
.
Shalom
.
paul

Hyderabad, India

#3012 Jan 28, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text><><
Why oh why didn't Jesus say, "I am God?" Look what happened when he only said I am the son of God. They tried to kill him in the temple and they did arrange to have him killed when he said in to the Sanhedrin. If he came claiming to be God his mission would have been over before it was even started.
read the whole worse of john14:28, brother, u will find the answer...
here what jesus mean is, my father is greater than me in status and glory.... that is why jesus said in john 14:28, that, if you love me, you would be happy that i am leaving you and going to the father, for my father is greater than i...

simple brother, if you read philippians 2:6-8, jesus being in the form of god, thought did not consider it robbery to be equal with god as god, but jesus emptyed himself of no reputation taking the form of a bondservant and coming in the likeness of men and became obedient to the point of death for our sins.

so, here jesus was in the form of god, but left it set a side the status and glory, and took the form of bondservant willingly...

now jesus say, in john14:28, if you love me, you will rejoice that iam going to the father, because i no longer be humiliated but return to the glory and status which are mine with the fahter.

if you read john 17:5, jesus said and demands, now father, glorify me with the glory which i had with you, before the world began.

now jesus was returning to the father to share that same glory and status with the father... till then the father would be greater than jesus in terms of status and glory until jesus return to the father. because jesus himself set all those a side for the remission of our sins.
not jesus is less than god, or father is greater than jesus in power, holiness authority...

this is the context brother, i pray jesus speak to you and opens your heart, and convicts you to the true way of jesus christ.

lord jesus bless you.
praise the lord jesus.

“Call sign: Apache One Six”

Since: Mar 11

US 62 @ US 81

#3013 Jan 28, 2013
paul wrote:
<quoted text>
read the whole worse of john14:28, brother, u will find the answer...
here what jesus mean is, my father is greater than me in status and glory.... that is why jesus said in john 14:28, that, if you love me, you would be happy that i am leaving you and going to the father, for my father is greater than i...
simple brother, if you read philippians 2:6-8, jesus being in the form of god, thought did not consider it robbery to be equal with god as god, but jesus emptyed himself of no reputation taking the form of a bondservant and coming in the likeness of men and became obedient to the point of death for our sins.
so, here jesus was in the form of god, but left it set a side the status and glory, and took the form of bondservant willingly...
now jesus say, in john14:28, if you love me, you will rejoice that iam going to the father, because i no longer be humiliated but return to the glory and status which are mine with the fahter.
if you read john 17:5, jesus said and demands, now father, glorify me with the glory which i had with you, before the world began.
now jesus was returning to the father to share that same glory and status with the father... till then the father would be greater than jesus in terms of status and glory until jesus return to the father. because jesus himself set all those a side for the remission of our sins.
not jesus is less than god, or father is greater than jesus in power, holiness authority...
this is the context brother, i pray jesus speak to you and opens your heart, and convicts you to the true way of jesus christ.
lord jesus bless you.
praise the lord jesus.
<><
Did you read my post? You are preaching to the choir. I have been a Christian probably longer than you have been alive.

Since: Dec 09

Calgary, Canada

#3014 Jan 28, 2013
Timesten wrote:
Jesus is not God. He even said so...
"The Father is greater than I"
John 14:28 -["You heard me say,'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER THAN I.
.
Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
.
Who was Jesus talking to when he prayed to the Father, himself?
Jesus sits at the right hand of God is another proof. He is God's lamb sitting before the throne of God.
.
Why did he never say "I am God"
.
Satan called him the son of God not God.
.
<quoted text> "The Father is greater than I"
.
This is a statement of relative position, not of essence or nature.
If the disciples had understoo that he was not G-d, they wouldn't have told us he was in may ways like: Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
.
<quoted text> "No one is good--except God alone.
.
Since this could be a rhetorical question and not a statement it can't be used as a proof text. In addition we know that Yeshua was good, as he was without sin. Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
.
<quoted text> Who was Jesus talking to when he prayed to the Father, himself?
.
No he was speaking to the one who had begotten him. If we look at a fertilized human cell it will eventually divide. Neither cell is the original and neither cell is the offspring. Both are identical in every respect. But sooner or later some will become brain cells which issue commands and some will become muscle cells which obey those commands. Both are from the same original cell and both are of the same nature and essence, but some have taken the position of submission to others. When these cells communicate back and forth no one says they are talking to themselves. So it is with G-d who has seperate "faces" which deal in different ways with this world and communicate with each other.
.
<quoted text> Jesus sits at the right hand of God is another proof. He is God's lamb sitting before the throne of God.
.
G-d the Father, doesn't have a right hand or any hand for that matter. We are told he is Spirit and Spirit doesn't have form. It is only in his emanation as the Son (of G-d and Man) that he does take form. Secondly I don't see anywhere the Lamb is before the throne, but I see many passages which place the Lamb on or in the midst of the throne. Additionally this throne is attributed to G-d and the Lamb.
.
<quoted text> Why did he never say "I am God"
.
Maybe you will get to answer that question when you stand before him and he says to you "Why didn't you honour the Son like the Father?" Joh 5:23
.
<quoted text> Satan called him the son of God not God.
.
Why would you look to Satan for any spiritual input?

Since: Dec 09

Calgary, Canada

#3015 Jan 28, 2013
backstrokes wrote:
<quoted text>
without exception,
every god that man has ever invented has weakened and died away. jesus on a stick, your socalled 'messiah', has proven to be the weakest of all.
oh ye of little faith,...... get rid of it, while you still can breathe.
.
Well as I see it almost half the world is X-tian. From a small beginning 2000 years ago has emerged a giant tree like is told us:
Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
.

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#3017 Jan 28, 2013
backstrokes wrote:
backstrokes wrote:
<quoted text>
without exception,
every god that man has ever invented has weakened and died away. jesus on a stick, your so-called 'messiah', has proven to be the weakest of all.
oh ye of little faith,...... get rid of it, while you still can breathe.
<quoted text>
backstrokes replies to Messianic114's claim that a majority believing in falsehood magically transforms such falsehood into the truth:
"A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." David Stevens
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
"Religion is a by-product of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?" - Arthur C. Clarke
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." - Einstein
Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - H L Mencken
"I count religion but a childish toy, And hold there is no sin but ignorance." - Marlowe
"Religion teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." - Richard Dawkins
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." - Delo McKown
"Religions are like fireflies; ... They require darkness in order to shine." - Schopenhauer
"Our ignorance is God; what we know is science." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"Wise men say,'Only Fools Rush in,'..." - Elvis Presley
OH YE OF LITTLE FAITH,....... GET RID OF IT!
Yet you put your 'faith' in foolish men...most of whom are dead...
frank

Fayetteville, NC

#3019 Jan 29, 2013
Allen Richards wrote:
<quoted text><><
Why oh why didn't Jesus say, "I am God?" Look what happened when he only said I am the son of God. They tried to kill him in the temple and they did arrange to have him killed when he said in to the Sanhedrin. If he came claiming to be God his mission would have been over before it was even started.
The jews were awaiting their messiah--not G-d.

Being the creator and G-d of the universe is a pretty big deal, not something that Yeshuah would have left for white guys in funny hats to figure out later on.

Yeshuah could have simply said "I'm G-d and I've conme to earth to suicide myself as it's required in order for me to forgive you guys for screwing up" and that would have been that, lol, but he didn't.

No, instead, he told us that G-d is one, G-d is greater than himself, he did nothing without G-d's will...he prayed, fasted,and was tempted by the "devil".

Some "god", huh?
Jeff

San Jose, CA

#3020 Jan 29, 2013
frank wrote:
<quoted text>
The jews were awaiting their messiah--not G-d.
Being the creator and G-d of the universe is a pretty big deal, not something that Yeshuah would have left for white guys in funny hats to figure out later on.
Yeshuah could have simply said "I'm G-d and I've conme to earth to suicide myself as it's required in order for me to forgive you guys for screwing up" and that would have been that, lol, but he didn't.
No, instead, he told us that G-d is one, G-d is greater than himself, he did nothing without G-d's will...he prayed, fasted,and was tempted by the "devil".
Some "god", huh?
He forgave sins, stilled the sea, fed thousands of people with a few fish all of which only God can do. Also He accepted worship which was due only to God.

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