Why Christians want others to believe
Flygerian

United States

#132 Apr 22, 2013
1. If you cannot show how the bible can be PRIVATELY interpreted then why are you even having this convo? Just because people choose to hold certain verses over others or TAKE VERSES OUT OF CONTEXT doesnt mean that it is OPEN to interpretation

2. No that is not the only argument against it. Can you actually debate honestly? The simple fact that other countries (that are not christian) do the same shows that

3. You're pretty sure. But no one PURPOSELY holds wrong views lol. They think they're right. This goes for you and me
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#133 Apr 23, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
1. If you cannot show how the bible can be PRIVATELY interpreted then why are you even having this convo? Just because people choose to hold certain verses over others or TAKE VERSES OUT OF CONTEXT doesnt mean that it is OPEN to interpretation
2. No that is not the only argument against it. Can you actually debate honestly? The simple fact that other countries (that are not christian) do the same shows that
3. You're pretty sure. But no one PURPOSELY holds wrong views lol. They think they're right. This goes for you and me
1. Yes it is. When Xtianity allow so much re-purposing of the thing. Take the trend where preachers talk about using the Bibles message, rather Jesus' messages for personal profit and gain.(I forget what this sort of teaching is called, Prosperity Gospel..?)

Only a few decades ago that would be anathema to Xtian-dom.

The Bible has to be open to personal interpretation, otherwise its merely a Organizational Handbook, like an Employee Handbook.

2. Got to agree with the other poster. Who cares what other nations do...we rarely ever do, but suddenly over this issue its relevant?

3.
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#134 Apr 23, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Can you display an example of what is MY interpretation BESIDES prophecy?
2. What priveleges does the average christian hold that others do not? I'll wait... OH yea and how have atheists been oppressed? If you dont believe in something dont believe it lol. You dont have to go around FORCING your beliefs on others right?
3. So yea you didnt address how atheists commit the same "travesties" that you claim christians make
2. They can speak about their faith when running for office. Atheists are best advised NOT to bring it up, and if they do they better rush right over it, and NOT be all proud and loud. Cause if they really stand there and linger on it, and call for non-prayer led meetings...they're gonna go home.

As the same is still kinda true for homosexuals in most localities, but not all...

One need not be in chains and such - all that is needed is that a person is afraid to express their truth, when seeking employment, a house, a loan, run for office, speak among neighbors/community...

...any place or situation where the freedom to express ones "truth" is inhibited because of the prejudices of others, the majority in this case, who usually refuse to learn the truth, but rely on their prejudices to judge others.

3. Are you not paying attention? Yes, atheists do use some of the same tactics as Believers - but they've been prevented from such expressions for a long, long time...and now when they do - express themselves, either civilly or not - it triggers the whining of Xtians that they're being persecuted by Atheists.

The Xtian majority is falsely using the notions of PERSECUTION -(which harkens back to the early days of xtianity) to whine about other peoples expressing their civil rights to speak in the Public Square and be seriously considered at the same time.

There are very few "tools" available to us to express and push for the fulfillment of personal and/or group rights. And historically Xtianity has been given too much leeway to be the only voice in the room.

You really are just being stubborn and belligerent to this concept. If the only way I, or a group can get the Power structure to listen is to use the same tactics that group has used...what alternative do you suggest?

Now its your turn. You don't like that (some) Atheists express themselves so loudly - what alternative would you suggest for atheists, or any one to be heard?
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#135 Apr 23, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Yes it is. When Xtianity allow so much re-purposing of the thing. Take the trend where preachers talk about using the Bibles message, rather Jesus' messages for personal profit and gain.(I forget what this sort of teaching is called, Prosperity Gospel..?)
Only a few decades ago that would be anathema to Xtian-dom.
The Bible has to be open to personal interpretation, otherwise its merely a Organizational Handbook, like an Employee Handbook.
2. Got to agree with the other poster. Who cares what other nations do...we rarely ever do, but suddenly over this issue its relevant?
3.
1. That is not up for private interpretation. That is preachers using their followers not having knowledge about the book they claim is the word of God to their own advantage. Madscot said that the bible is up for interpretation and I asked him to give me something (other than prophecy) where this is the case

2. If you're going to claim that it is a christian invention that ONLY man and women are to be married then you need to acknowledge why other nations that are NOT christian abide by the same rules. I would say because its common sense that man was made for woman and vice versa what would you say tho?
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#136 Apr 23, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
2. They can speak about their faith when running for office. Atheists are best advised NOT to bring it up, and if they do they better rush right over it, and NOT be all proud and loud. Cause if they really stand there and linger on it, and call for non-prayer led meetings...they're gonna go home.
As the same is still kinda true for homosexuals in most localities, but not all...
One need not be in chains and such - all that is needed is that a person is afraid to express their truth, when seeking employment, a house, a loan, run for office, speak among neighbors/community...
...any place or situation where the freedom to express ones "truth" is inhibited because of the prejudices of others, the majority in this case, who usually refuse to learn the truth, but rely on their prejudices to judge others.
3. Are you not paying attention? Yes, atheists do use some of the same tactics as Believers
2. I see what you're saying. But the atheist just doesnt have to say anything right? Or is HE FORCED to say he believes in God? I wouldnt say so. That is a personal choice. And if he feels the NEED to say that just to get a job thats what I would call "selling your soul" lol.

3. This is all I need to see. They use the same tactics as believers. You're excuses do not matter. Just as since my ancestors were downtrodden and oppressed means I can go to the ancestors of the oppressors and do the same to them? OF COURSE NOT.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#137 Apr 23, 2013
Punisher wrote:
Now its your turn. You don't like that (some) Atheists express themselves so loudly - what alternative would you suggest for atheists, or any one to be heard?
Sorry I didnt respond to this because I deleted everything after "Atheists use the same tactics.... etc"

Where did I say that atheists should shut up or shouldnt express themselves? What I did say is to get rid of the hypocrisy. You cant get mad at a christian for challenging YOUR views on there being no God or hell etc.... and then GO CHALLENGE a christian on his views of there being a God etc...

HYPOCRISY RIGHT?

Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#138 Apr 23, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. You havent showed one verse that is left up for interpretation. The reason for different sects (mind telling me what "cult" I belong to?) is that they put one verse as more importatnt than the other. Can you give an example of a verse that is up for interpretation that is NOT prophecy?
2. Those are not privileges christians hold that others do not experience. Mind trying again?
3. Atheists dont like their views challenged just as they say christians do not. Add into that muslims as well if ya want
3. Not true. I'm happy to have a civil discussion about my non-faith, or whatever - but when the civility is not returned in kind...guess what my reaction is?

Xtians attack and have been attacking others of differing faiths, no faith and even sectors of their own Religion for centuries now. To attack is so endemic to the Religion and practice of same that Xtians, Xtian-dom are/is literally blind to it. The historical legacy is that Xtians did not, do not approach other faiths, or those with no faith in any way that would be considered civil, polite, or humble by any ones reckoning of those terms.

And you sit here, pretending not to be a Xtian, but are clearly defending their current and past positions towards others, and are as equally blind to the reality that when the oppressed finally start to flex their political and social muscles - legally theirs to flex - just like Xtians, you take the same side as the whining Persecuted Xtians...and only because sometimes these groups use the same tactics that Xtians have been given a free-pass on for centuries here and abroad...that's your only point. So what? Its a miniscule point to make.

If you're not a Xtian, you're a Groupie...which might be worse. Cause in reality they don't want you expressing your voice and rights either!
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#139 Apr 23, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
3. Not true. I'm happy to have a civil discussion about my non-faith, or whatever - but when the civility is not returned in kind...guess what my reaction is?
Xtians attack and have been attacking others of differing faiths, no faith and even sectors of their own Religion for centuries now. To attack is so endemic to the Religion and practice of same that Xtians, Xtian-dom are/is literally blind to it. The historical legacy is that Xtians did not, do not approach other faiths, or those with no faith in any way that would be considered civil, polite, or humble by any ones reckoning of those terms.
And you sit here, pretending not to be a Xtian, but are clearly defending their current and past positions towards others, and are as equally blind to the reality that when the oppressed finally start to flex their political and social muscles - legally theirs to flex - just like Xtians, you take the same side as the whining Persecuted Xtians...and only because sometimes these groups use the same tactics that Xtians have been given a free-pass on for centuries here and abroad...that's your only point. So what? Its a miniscule point to make.
If you're not a Xtian, you're a Groupie...which might be worse. Cause in reality they don't want you expressing your voice and rights either!
3. Well then I am not referring to you then. Point is atheists do and use the same tactics that you're complaining christians do lol. Cant get around that really

Christians have attacked others. So have muslims. So have Jews. So have thugs in India (literally a group called thugs) back in the day. Atheists have attacked others and more. You're just singling out one group because of your dislike of them.

No Im not a christian. But I do not like biases especially coming from people that claim not to have them lol. So if I see hypocrisy coming from anyone I will point it out just as I hope someone would do it for me. You can go to the white people killed Jesus thread to see me defending muslims. You can go to the other thread created by noyb34.... and see where Im going against muslims. Everyone gets it from me lol. I try not to hold biases though we all do. Just some (YOU) more than others. No offense just calling it like I see it
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#140 Apr 23, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>

And you sit here, pretending not to be a Xtian, but are clearly defending their current and past positions towards others, and are as equally blind to the reality that when the oppressed finally start to flex their political and social muscles - legally theirs to flex - just like Xtians, you take the same side as the whining Persecuted Xtians...and only because sometimes these groups use the same tactics that Xtians have been given a free-pass on for centuries here and abroad...that's your only point. So what? Its a miniscule point to make.
In fact show me where I did this. Meaning show me where I said atheist should not voice their views on anything. I'll wait though Im sure you'll just come ignore my post and type a lengthy response lol

FACT is I never said any of that in this thread. What I DID say is that atheists cannot go up to a christian and challenge their views while complaining about christians doing them in the same manner. THAT IS HYPOCRISY anyway you slice it. This goes for vice versa as well. The history is irrelevant. Unless you (unless you're native american) want to be slaughtered for being in America by the Native Americans since it was the WHITES that slaughtered their ancestors. This would only be fair right?
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#141 Apr 23, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
2. I see what you're saying. But the atheist just doesnt have to say anything right? Or is HE FORCED to say he believes in God? I wouldnt say so. That is a personal choice. And if he feels the NEED to say that just to get a job thats what I would call "selling your soul" lol.
3. This is all I need to see. They use the same tactics as believers. You're excuses do not matter. Just as since my ancestors were downtrodden and oppressed means I can go to the ancestors of the oppressors and do the same to them? OF COURSE NOT.
Thankfully the question can not be directly asked - but HR people have their ways around the Q now. Or a private employer can do the same - ask indirect Q's.

If someone needs a job badly enough, they will sell their soul.

But you're being childish...on purpose I hope.

My friend, I set a courthouse in an uproar several years ago when before the proceedings (I was merely giving testimony) I told the officers and judge, etc I would not swear on a Bible. You'd have thought I shat on the judges podium. The court officers would have thrown me in the jail if they could have. It took over an hour for the thing to be settled, in my favor because the prosecutor needed my testimony.

Like I ask, what tactics would you like them to use? Sit there and take it, over and over???

A freedom fighter is a terrorist to the one being fought. You seem to only see #2...
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#142 Apr 23, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
3. Well then I am not referring to you then. Point is atheists do and use the same tactics that you're complaining christians do lol. Cant get around that really
Christians have attacked others. So have muslims. So have Jews. So have thugs in India (literally a group called thugs) back in the day. Atheists have attacked others and more. You're just singling out one group because of your dislike of them.
No Im not a christian. But I do not like biases especially coming from people that claim not to have them lol. So if I see hypocrisy coming from anyone I will point it out just as I hope someone would do it for me. You can go to the white people killed Jesus thread to see me defending muslims. You can go to the other thread created by noyb34.... and see where Im going against muslims. Everyone gets it from me lol. I try not to hold biases though we all do. Just some (YOU) more than others. No offense just calling it like I see it
No, I'm trying to make a simple point that you keep escalating. Because you cant see that when an oppressed group fights back they often have to resort to similar tactics as those who oppressed them. Not always, but many times yes.

I dont dislike Xtians out of hand. Dont be ridiculous, some of my best friends are Xtian.(appropriate LOL)

I wish we lived in a Religious-less society (like a color-less one) where such things didnt matter but to the individual and those close to them. But they do matter, as every election cycle since the +/-80's has made clearer and clearer...

And here's where my point is made for me. You made it for me. By arguing with, or pushing back at Xtians, its deemed to be hate. While they, Xtians, will say their attitudes towards others was out of their Xtian love and compassion and desire to save souls! So as such they get the free-pass! I/others hate, while they are all full of love and compassion. I use a knife and its an assault, if they use one its a delicate and needed surgery.

You either get-it, or - as its clear - You dont. You're a Xtian groupie, sucking the Xtian di/k, and no one can talk bad about your "band", so you call them haters.

I'm out...
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#143 Apr 23, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
3. Well then I am not referring to you then. Point is atheists do and use the same tactics that you're complaining christians do lol. Cant get around that really
Christians have attacked others. So have muslims. So have Jews. So have thugs in India (literally a group called thugs) back in the day. Atheists have attacked others and more. You're just singling out one group because of your dislike of them.
No Im not a christian. But I do not like biases especially coming from people that claim not to have them lol. So if I see hypocrisy coming from anyone I will point it out just as I hope someone would do it for me. You can go to the white people killed Jesus thread to see me defending muslims. You can go to the other thread created by noyb34.... and see where Im going against muslims. Everyone gets it from me lol. I try not to hold biases though we all do. Just some (YOU) more than others. No offense just calling it like I see it
Never said I didn't have a bias. I would never be so absurd...we have all them. Its whether or not I let it truly interfere when dealing with others. I try not to let it. Not always successful...but I try really, really hard, and since I dont care if someone is an atheist or not - I succeed a lot of the time.

You see I dont care about belief systems until its made something to care about, and its never me making it such! In my personal life.

Gotta go...got some work to finish before dinner.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#144 Apr 23, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm trying to make a simple point that you keep escalating. Because you cant see that when an oppressed group fights back they often have to resort to similar tactics as those who oppressed them. Not always, but many times yes.
I dont dislike Xtians out of hand. Dont be ridiculous, some of my best friends are Xtian.(appropriate LOL)
I wish we lived in a Religious-less society (like a color-less one) where such things didnt matter but to the individual and those close to them. But they do matter, as every election cycle since the +/-80's has made clearer and clearer...
And here's where my point is made for me. You made it for me. By arguing with, or pushing back at Xtians, its deemed to be hate. While they, Xtians, will say their attitudes towards others was out of their Xtian love and compassion and desire to save souls! So as such they get the free-pass! I/others hate, while they are all full of love and compassion. I use a knife and its an assault, if they use one its a delicate and needed surgery.
You either get-it, or - as its clear - You dont. You're a Xtian groupie, sucking the Xtian di/k, and no one can talk bad about your "band", so you call them haters.
I'm out...
More words you're throwing into my mouth huh lol. Is that all you do? Just come make lengthy posts while ignoring what the other person said? I think so

It has nothing to do with "fighting back" or stating your views. I have no problem with retribution. But this is the LAST TIME imma say this:

YOU CANNOT COMPLAIN ABOUT CHRISTIANS CHALLENGING YOUR VIEWS THEN GO AND CHALLENGE THEIRS. YOU CANNOT SAY THAT CHRISTIANS DO NOT HANDLE CHALLENGES WELL, THEN GET MAD WHEN CHALLENGES ARE MADE TO YOUR BELIEFS.

That is hypocrisy. Nothing more nothing less. I mean one can twist it any which way they want but at the end of the day its hypocrisy. AND PLEASE do not compare the "oppression of atheists" to people that have went thru REAL oppression such as the Irish, blacks, native americans among more. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

I'll ignore your weird fantasies about dicks and sucking them to ask this final question. What have I said that is false in this post? Go ahead when you return just quote it.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#145 Apr 23, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Never said I didn't have a bias. I would never be so absurd...we have all them. Its whether or not I let it truly interfere when dealing with others. I try not to let it. Not always successful...but I try really, really hard, and since I dont care if someone is an atheist or not - I succeed a lot of the time.
You see I dont care about belief systems until its made something to care about, and its never me making it such! In my personal life.
Gotta go...got some work to finish before dinner.
You do care though. Which is why you only debate in this forum with those that are believers of some sort. At least thats what I've seen. As far as this thread is concerned again you ARE being biased. You're excusing atheists for using tactics but attacking christians for using the same tactics. Why cant BOTH groups be on the same opposition to you when considering the tactics they use?
B B
I I
A A
S S
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#146 Apr 23, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact show me where I did this. Meaning show me where I said atheist should not voice their views on anything. I'll wait though Im sure you'll just come ignore my post and type a lengthy response lol

FACT is I never said any of that in this thread. What I DID say is that atheists cannot go up to a christian and challenge their views while complaining about christians doing them in the same manner. THAT IS HYPOCRISY anyway you slice it. This goes for vice versa as well. The history is irrelevant. Unless you (unless you're native american) want to be slaughtered for being in America by the Native Americans since it was the WHITES that slaughtered their ancestors. This would only be fair right?
(Couple minutes while the grill heats up...)

No, you know what's hypocrisy? When a group - Xtians, American Xtians in this case - put themselves on a the moral and ethical pedestal and are neither. Or support those who are neither, or say nothing about their own who are neither.

I see nothing inherently moral or ethical about Faith. Having it, claiming it, doesn't make someone moral-ethical, and shouting at others for not being moral or ethical like Xtians are doing to the homosexual community - while not being 100% exemplary of their (xtians) beliefs - is hypocrisy incarnate!

If someone comes up to me and hits me, and I hit them back and call them on it - you're saying I'm being hypocritical?

The history is relevant because as I said, Xtianity has self-appointed itself the Moral and Ethical Arbiter of the entire planet. And American Xtians are still at it...while always blaming everyone else for their inability to be better xtians.

And if the only thing Atheists are doing is complaining - then they're already light years ahead in the moral-ethical checks and balances.

Stop being such a Xtian groupie...you're not trying to strike a balance and call others out for being hypocritical...you're playing favorites for one reason and one only. And we all know what it is.
Flygerian

United States

#147 Apr 23, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
(Couple minutes while the grill heats up...)
No, you know what's hypocrisy? When a group - Xtians, American Xtians in this case - put themselves on a the moral and ethical pedestal and are neither. Or support those who are neither, or say nothing about their own who are neither.
I see nothing inherently moral or ethical about Faith. Having it, claiming it, doesn't make someone moral-ethical, and shouting at others for not being moral or ethical like Xtians are doing to the homosexual community - while not being 100% exemplary of their (xtians) beliefs - is hypocrisy incarnate!
Yep. Though what you just said has nothing to do with the thread I am in 100% agreement
Punisher wrote:
If someone comes up to me and hits me, and I hit them back and call them on it - you're saying I'm being hypocritical?
Thats not whats being discussed. This.

6 Mexicans comes and hit you one after the other. Now from now on you hit every mexican you come in contact with.
Punisher wrote:
The history is relevant because as I said, Xtianity has self-appointed itself the Moral and Ethical Arbiter of the entire planet. And American Xtians are still at it...while always blaming everyone else for their inability to be better xtians.
And if the only thing Atheists are doing is complaining - then they're already light years ahead in the moral-ethical checks and balances.
Stop being such a Xtian groupie...you're not trying to strike a balance and call others out for being hypocritical...you're playing favorites for one reason and one only. And we all know what it is.
More hypocrisy from Mr. Pun. I was condescending for using "LOL" but you can call me names such as Xtian groupie and say I suck dicks and its all good and dandy huh?

Sigh I know I said I wouldnt repeat this but let me try again.

ATHEISTS (OR CHRISTIANS) CANNOT complain about people challenging their beliefs then go and CHALLENGE a CHRISTIAN(OR ATHEISTS) BELIEFS. That is hypocritical

I cannot hit you on purpose and then complain when someone does the same to me.
Thinking

Decatur, GA

#148 Apr 24, 2013
Christians want others to know the truth about God so they can have eternal life too
Punisher

Mount Vernon, NY

#149 Apr 24, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact show me where I did this. Meaning show me where I said atheist should not voice their views on anything. I'll wait though Im sure you'll just come ignore my post and type a lengthy r?
Never said you said that specifically, but it seems you cant see the difference when those who simply could not speak-up before and finally does and might use the same loud tactics as the ones who prevented the speech...that they are not the exact same thing. That the one/s now speaking up about being marginalized is not a hypocrite - based solely on sharing similar tactics.

Plus your example is silly, because of a few reasons, not the least of which is the passage of time, and that the Native Americans tried to fight back, win some gains, keep some lands, etc - and in most cases it was the underhanded tricks of Xtians who undid their gains...all those devout American Xtians who thought it fine to murder a race and nearly all of its culture...again.

Was that too long for you...?
Punisher

Mount Vernon, NY

#150 Apr 24, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep. Though what you just said has nothing to do with the thread I am in 100% agreement
<quoted text>
Thats not whats being discussed. This.
6 Mexicans comes and hit you one after the other. Now from now on you hit every mexican you come in contact with.
<quoted text>
More hypocrisy from Mr. Pun. I was condescending for using "LOL" but you can call me names such as Xtian groupie and say I suck dicks and its all good and dandy huh?
Sigh I know I said I wouldnt repeat this but let me try again.
ATHEISTS (OR CHRISTIANS) CANNOT complain about people challenging their beliefs then go and CHALLENGE a CHRISTIAN(OR ATHEISTS) BELIEFS. That is hypocritical
I cannot hit you on purpose and then complain when someone does the same to me.
Oh, I'm sorry I never meant to condescend...I meant to offend. Call you on being a Xtian mouthpiece.

Let me repeat this (sigh) again. If you smack me in the face and I hit you back and call you on it first, its not being a hypocrite. Its giving back, a little instant karma if you will. You have your hitting out of sequence. You cant complain if you hit first, but its fine if you're the return hitter. Get it now? You missed the sequence of events. Xtians dominated and marginalized many peoples, they finally hit back and its the Xtians whining they're not being treated properly. That's the hypocrisy...not for the ones speaking up if its the ONLY way the Xtians will pay the F attention. It's the sequence, Fly, the sequence of events.

It hypocritical one when one claims to be a full-fledged Xtian - and ignores the clear admonition of their Messiah, to turn the other cheek.

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#151 Apr 24, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
(Couple minutes while the grill heats up...)
I am SO jealous...

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