Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#22 Apr 18, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
We want to see the lost get delivered from their bondage of sin and get saved through the glorious precious BLOOD of Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 9:11-12
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Colossians 1:14- In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
==========
Question: "How can I know for sure that I will go to Heaven when I die?"
Answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/know-sure-Heaven....
You want, you all want, want, want, want...your wanting is your down fall.

You all want to know for sure, you want to cure yourself of normal human emotions, like anxiety - but the reality is YOU, no one can know for sure your status with your God. Your lust of wanting others to believe exactly like You is turning him off to you, because you worship your want. Your want is your God.

Plus, others salvation earns you nothing. Nothing! But you think it does. You/others think the WORKS of conversion is earning you points.

FYI; its not.

“Jesus=only way into Heaven”

Since: Nov 12

saved by grace through faith

#23 Apr 18, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
You want, you all want, want, want, want...your wanting is your down fall.
You all want to know for sure, you want to cure yourself of normal human emotions, like anxiety - but the reality is YOU, no one can know for sure your status with your God. Your lust of wanting others to believe exactly like You is turning him off to you, because you worship your want. Your want is your God.
Plus, others salvation earns you nothing. Nothing! But you think it does. You/others think the WORKS of conversion is earning you points.
FYI; its not.
Jesus Christ is the ONLY way into Heaven!
John 14:6- Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
----------

Those who are truly saved have assurance:
1 John 5:13- These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

----------

Soul winning is wise:
Proverbs 11:30- The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

James 5:20- Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#24 Apr 18, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
You want, you all want, want, want, want...your wanting is your down fall.
You all want to know for sure, you want to cure yourself of normal human emotions, like anxiety - but the reality is YOU, no one can know for sure your status with your God. Your lust of wanting others to believe exactly like You is turning him off to you, because you worship your want. Your want is your God.
Plus, others salvation earns you nothing. Nothing! But you think it does. You/others think the WORKS of conversion is earning you points.
FYI; its not.
At the same time, they will tell you "works" doesn't get one to "Heaven".
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#29 Apr 18, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course not. Because maintaining the practice is what counts. And xtians have not stopped being belligerent to others of differing faiths and/or non-belief.
You modern batch of American Xtians all act like Xtian-dom has seen the errors of its past and corrected them. If only! You folks are still at it all over the place, its just now here in the US and most of Europe you cant send out a posse to hunt down or otherwise attack others deemed heretical, apostates, Jews, or just pagans in need of a good God-fearing lesson.
Here in the US Xtianity is a large part of the divisiveness in our culture, our politics, and other areas.
But when you all get some push-back - what do you do? Whine and claim persecution. Like the Bully who meets his match, you cry about being beat-on! "Its not fair, its not fair...!"
Come on Fly, you're really not this blind and belligerent to the truth of such things? Or are you?
I am not a christian nor did I whine or cry. What I did do is make a TRUE statement that atheists do the same as threadstarter said christians do.
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#30 Apr 18, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
3. stumping an atheist, in general, on a Religions details is not really stumping them now is it? Not every atheist investigates Religions in detail. They dont really need to, now do they?
Now if they are making a bunch of claims about a Religion/s, and they cant back it up - sure, you have a great case - but in general an Atheist no more needs to investigate Religions anymore than a landscaper here on Long Island, NY has to know what's needed to grow lawn grass in say New Mexico.
But you fail to address my main point - why are American Xtians so concerned about being challenged in their faith that they go to such lengths to try and prevent it..? Or like you get angry when others challenge them? Clearly it bothers you that some Athiests try to Stump and Convince them re; their faith and religion?
Xtians are always talking about how others make their faith-keeping a challenge...why? I dont worry about Believers making my Atheism harder. Why? Cause I dont worry about others influences on me. Its hard to influence me, and/or stump me about the things that are important to me. Which apparently is the opposite for many American Xtians.
4. do you and I share the same stance on these matters? If so fill me in...maybe I missed it...
Many atheists come in posting verse after verse of the bible saying it says this or that when they havent read the FULL thing in context. Therefore yes it easy to stump them when it comes to misconceptions about the bible.

Why are christians concerned with what you're doing? Why dont you ask them? And after you ask that go to the muslim that feels the same about their faith. Go to the atheist that doesnt want to be bothered by the religious and ask him the same. See where Im going?

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe

#31 Apr 18, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
Just as atheists beLIEve that theres no God (an illusion) so they need others to beLIEve.
Always with the avoidance aren't you?

The point is that >>>YOU<<< are weak in faith about your moronic MISrepresentation of God. So need to force your crap upon others, because the thought that someone else is right, and you are >>>WRONG<<< frightens your fragile ego.
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#32 Apr 18, 2013
Seentheotherside wrote:
<quoted text>
Always with the avoidance aren't you?
The point is that >>>YOU<<< are weak in faith about your moronic MISrepresentation of God. So need to force your crap upon others, because the thought that someone else is right, and you are >>>WRONG<<< frightens your fragile ego.
No you're the one with the avoidance. Unless you want to show the proof you have (that isnt your words such as "I went to him when I was four" or "I've been having experiences since a child") of your god. If not then you are avoiding.

As for the rest, when did I force anything on anyone else? And how is it any different from YOU doing the same going around telling others that they have a demonic god?

“When you die, nothing happens.”

Since: Sep 12

Gurabo, PR

#33 Apr 19, 2013
Romans Road wrote:
We want to see the lost get delivered from their bondage of sin and get saved through the glorious precious BLOOD of Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 9:11-12
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Colossians 1:14- In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
==========
Question: "How can I know for sure that I will go to Heaven when I die?"
Answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/know-sure-Heaven....
What do atheists need to do to show theists that if we don't believe in the afterlife we cannot be convinced to do something in exchange for it? You wanna buy us into your religion, show proof of funds. If you're instead gonna claim that you're only trying to help, guess what? WE DON'T NEED IT!
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#34 Apr 19, 2013
Mirror Mirror Face wrote:
<quoted text>The reason is, we don't want you to believe. However, why do you need others not to beLIEve? Because it is obvious that you know that you are evil and going to hell.
No, the more vocal atheists are rebelling against the false righteousness of believers. Especially American Xtians who think they are the moral high-ground. Who are deluded into thinking that the so called act of faith makes them better than others - all in the face of the historical record, or not only themselves, but Xtianity in general.

Believers are NOT special.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#35 Apr 19, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
No you're the one with the avoidance. Unless you want to show the proof you have (that isnt your words such as "I went to him when I was four" or "I've been having experiences since a child") of your god. If not then you are avoiding.
As for the rest, when did I force anything on anyone else? And how is it any different from YOU doing the same going around telling others that they have a demonic god?
Come on Fly, we're having a GENERAL conversation about the world at large. We cant have micro conversations about you in particular.

And while you dont force in the true sense of the word, you are belligerent to others POV. You re condescending, and like this post you play all innocent and hands-off...

We're discussing Xtians and Xtianity in the general sense. As it manifests in the culture of the US and elsewhere and as it refuses to make amends for its transgressions, in part, in whole and in the individuals.

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#36 Apr 19, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
Many atheists come in posting verse after verse of the bible saying it says this or that when they havent read the FULL thing in context.
When you say context, do you mean interpreted the way YOU would like it interpreted?
Flygerian wrote:
Why are christians concerned with what you're doing? Why dont you ask them?
Because it threatens their christian privilege that the have held here for 200+ years.
Flygerian wrote:
And after you ask that go to the muslim that feels the same about their faith.
See above.
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#37 Apr 19, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>Come on Fly, we're having a GENERAL conversation about the world at large. We cant have micro conversations about you in particular.
And while you dont force in the true sense of the word, you are belligerent to others POV. You re condescending, and like this post you play all innocent and hands-off...
We're discussing Xtians and Xtianity in the general sense. As it manifests in the culture of the US and elsewhere and as it refuses to make amends for its transgressions, in part, in whole and in the individuals.
Why didnt you come and continue to post and post about christians then? What have I said that is condescending to anyone? Are you seriously saying I was condescending to SEEN of all people?
Flygerian

Yukon, OK

#38 Apr 19, 2013
madscot wrote:
<quoted text>
1. When you say context, do you mean interpreted the way YOU would like it interpreted?
<quoted text>
2. Because it threatens their christian privilege that the have held here for 200+ years.
<quoted text>
3. See above.
1. No if I meant it like that I believe I would have said it. What I did mean is that the bible has to be read from beginning to end. Some things in the middle will not make sense unless you read the beginning for an example

2. That wasnt a question to Punisher but the question he asked. And I dont think they had a "privilege" in anything.

3. I like how you ignored me saying the same of atheists.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#39 Apr 20, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not a christian nor did I whine or cry. What I did do is make a TRUE statement that atheists do the same as threadstarter said christians do.
And I never said otherwise. That's what I mean by push-back, but in the case of Atheists, and others who have been subjected to Xtian animosity and in many cases violence for centuries - its not whining, its staking a rightful claim in a free society. Expressing and exercising my rights is not whining. Its my duty as a patriot! But too many American Xtians don't think, or believe anyone but them have the rights of expression.

But Xtians are the ones now doing the most whining when challenged by others. No matter how non-confrontational I/others can be with them they all tend to react (to the simplest of questions,etc) like its an attack and typically they charge us, like a ill-trained dog charges a fence at every passerby. Everything is now perceived as a threat by the bulk of the xtian community, and as such the individuals being preached at are taught that any challenge is to be taken as a threat. So bark at it!(And that bark is usually condemnation to hell.)

IMO its all because current American Xtinaity has been so distilled down to nothing but a microwaveable sort of Belief. Quick and ready in a minute. Brought to them by the "Name It and Claim It!" line of spiritual junk foods. For a dozen plus decades Americans Xtians have been seeking the shortest path thru their faith, the shortest way to earn and demand salvation from their (phony) God. So that what we have now is a bunch of Theological illiterates, who mash-up beliefs and themes, wholly relying on the study of others to explain how they should believe, what they should believe, and why they believe it. They Google something - that agrees with them - and are now Bible experts. They seek nothing but agreement. Which is inbreeding IMO.

There's no substance to American Xtianity. Its bereft of real spiritual work on oneself. Its all about the world around them and beyond getting in their way of being better Xtians. Attack the world around them as the Devil.

And to make matters worse they now have a Quick Fix method of gaining Salvation - go to a prayer festival (large or small) get worked up and shout out that they are Saved, and they are! And that's the end of the work they feel they need to do! Hell some of them now only rely on the TV for that ritual, cause leaving the easy-chair is too much work for them. One hand on a Bible the other in a bag of pork-rinds.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#40 Apr 20, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Why didnt you come and continue to post and post about christians then?

2. What have I said that is condescending to anyone?

3. Are you seriously saying I was condescending to SEEN of all people?
1. not sure what you mean...? I may have lost track of this thread...I try not to be on every damn thread around here. I stick to about 4-5.

2. You can be condescending at times...the "LOL's" at inappropriate times are condescending...do you laugh out loud like that when talking to people in real life? We take cues here from the style of writing, like we would take real cues in face to face conversations.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#41 Apr 20, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Many atheists come in posting verse after verse of the bible saying it says this or that when they havent read the FULL thing in context. Therefore yes it easy to stump them when it comes to misconceptions about the bible.

2. Why are christians concerned with what you're doing? Why dont you ask them?

And after you ask that go to the muslim that feels the same about their faith.

Go to the atheist that doesnt want to be bothered by the religious and ask him the same. See where Im going?
Context like what was going on in Palestine in 1CE? Or in 2013?

1. Yet Xtians do the very same things. Using isolated quotes to answer or deflect questions, etc from others. They have been taught that Passage X is answer to Q 12, so they spout it off and think the matter settled. isolated text usage was invented by Xtians, so how come its not fair for others?(rhetorical, I know the answer.)

IMO, less than 25% of practicing American Xtians have actually read the entire Bible.(and Im being generous) Less have read it more'n once, and even less have read the OT at all. Doesn't matter the sect, most American Xtians are told which passages to read and read the most (most NT) and have simply swallowed whole a particular Brand and that's the end of it. And now many of them rely on various lopsided web-sites as source material to throw at atheists, etc...and they think the matter settled because its posted on gotquestions, etc...

But they don't actually do any study to actually accumulate any sort of foundational knowledge to understand the things they toss our way. They don't even bother to vet the web-sites, let alone do any further investigations - but they are not alone in that either. Its why you wont often see me posting links, or quoting others - I rely on my own work over a lifetime. Its all I should rely on - IF I hold fast and true to my POV. I dont rely on other atheists, they are of no importance to me.

2. I have, but usually after they confront me. Which has been often...more in the past. But again, we discussing the culture, the society and Xtianity's diverse impact and often undue, and unearned influences on it.

And its not what I'm doing, its what I'm not doing. NOT Believing in their God. Or at least saying I do...

I have had many a conversation with Muslim imams, and regular folks, and to tell the truth most have been more cordial than Xtians. They are rarely in my face when they learn of my atheism. For the most part till they get to know me, assume I'm a Xtian by default of being an American. As do Buddhists, Hindus, and what have you...

What about other atheists? I dont care about them. I dont need them. Its can be enjoyable to meet one, at least I dont have to worry about my word choices...but for the most part the same other conflicts might arise. Political, social, cultural...just not religion.

I get the impression that You think I only confront Xtians? Actually I dont confront anyone, till they might confront me, or intrude too far over my threshold of tolerance. But I debate many peoples over a variety of subjects - not all religious in nature.
little lamb

Australia

#42 Apr 20, 2013
tickedoffchic wrote:
<quoted text>
At the same time, they will tell you "works" doesn't get one to "Heaven".
That is works of Law..

But Faith without works is dead..so you do need Faith followed by obedience..and works of the flesh lead to death..
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#43 Apr 20, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Many atheists come in posting verse after verse of the bible saying it says this or that when they havent read the FULL thing in context. Therefore yes it easy to stump them when it comes to misconceptions about the bible.
Why are christians concerned with what you're doing? Why dont you ask them? And after you ask that go to the muslim that feels the same about their faith. Go to the atheist that doesnt want to be bothered by the religious and ask him the same. See where Im going?
And you miss my point yet again. Why are American Xtians so sensitive to challenges?

IMO, one reason is they think they can say anything, no matter how absurd or inappropriate - and its excused if they can say its out of their faith. And as such no one can touch them. Like its a shield from critique.

Good example, Westboro Baptist Church. They can protest at funerals and shout all sorts of vile things at the family, and other Xtians excuse them because they're Xtians after all, and that's okay. Where is the public Xtian outrage over these miscreants? Where?

Now flip that around and if it was organized Atheists doing it - it would be deemed Xtian Persecution of the kind only seen since the days of the Roman Coliseum.

Basic formula. American Xtians can attack any one/group. No one can attack them back. Xtians get a free pass, while everyone else does not. Those days are over!
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#44 Apr 20, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Many atheists come in posting verse after verse of the bible saying it says this or that when they havent read the FULL thing in context. Therefore yes it easy to stump them when it comes to misconceptions about the bible.
Why are christians concerned with what you're doing? Why dont you ask them? And after you ask that go to the muslim that feels the same about their faith. Go to the atheist that doesnt want to be bothered by the religious and ask him the same. See where Im going?
Look at post #23 of Romanrodehard...perfect example of out of context Bible quoting...by a Xtian.

Another point; MOST of the misconceptions about the Bible are sourced from Xtianity, and Xtians. Not atheists, or others. The largest being inerrancy. A long told campfire story, but incorrect in whole.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#45 Apr 20, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
That is works of Law..
But Faith without works is dead..so you do need Faith followed by obedience..and works of the flesh lead to death..
By obedience do you mean doing what is deemed Biblically right (by a sect, preacher, or individual) but not morally, ethically right?

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