Why Christians want others to believe
Flygerian

Chickasha, OK

#213 May 5, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
ONLY Xtians? Of course not, but we all know the numbers and we all know that this nation was "founded" and conquered by mostly Xtians. Xtians made up the majority of the early and late colonists, as well as the rest of the population as the nation grew and expanded
Simple yes or no's....lol...
1 and 2. No, I dont think the same physical tactics should be used...just that when they are the ones who did them in the first place should not be shocked if they get some of the same in return. Like the Israelis (and the World) who were shocked that the Palestinians, etc, used the same terror tactics in reverse. And everyone got all angry that they'd dared hit back. Like Native Americans. "How dare they hit back, we're the Righteous, and Divinely appointed masters of this land mass, not these heathens!"
I was talking about the politics. If group A gets to use various political tactics to their advantage, and for a time can control the playing field, when that control gets lifted they should not be surprised or angry that the ones oppressed are now using the system to their advantages...as they were always rightly allowed, but were unable by one group running the game and the field
In our examples, that we're discussing, its the politics of free-speech. If Xtians can speak and comment on whatever they please - than they should accept that they will be fought back. And if society is now skewing towards restricting their voice (the Xtians) its to be expected and while not exactly right, its in no way as BAD as the Xtians are now making it appear, nor as bad as when they had complete run of the playing field. The pendulum always swings to the far side when its let loose. Thats the way its always been in these sorts of social matters...the extreme oppressor eventually gets a little bit of that oppression back on them. And not anywhere near as bad as when they ran the game. But that's the way American Xtians are trying to make it appear.
I think the case of homosexuality is the best one we can use. Right now the majority of Americans are tired of hearing a Community of Xtians harp on the subject all day and night. And in that majority are American Xtians - who are tired of their Faith and Religion being a one/two issue "party" - being hijacked by a few alarmists. Many Xtians in fact dont think Xtianity as a community should be so deeply involved in actual politics like it is now. That many think Xtians should be doing actual Gods work out of the political fields where its nothing but Mans work.
So now that the Homosexual community is speaking up, is largely being accepted by the general population as part of the citizenry and worthy of civil rights protections, etc, etc - too many Xtians, or the loudest among them, seem to believe that ONLY they can comment on these matters and that ONLY their (xtian) POV is to be listened to. And when they (Xtians) are shouted down by others they whine and yell persecution.
Its hypocritical and childish.
BTW; I never said Xtians cant challenge atheists, etc...all I have ever said is that they cant demand exemptions to challenge. Which is what the Xtian Communities in this nation are used to - not being challenged. They had an exemption which has been revoked.
I never disagreed with what you said though you avoided the fact that by the logic presented by you, Native Americans and blacks should be able to use the SAME TACTICS THAT WERE AND ARE USED TO OPPRESS THEM on the oppressors, I agree with what you said. Christians cant attack and then not expect a blowback from atheists or whoever they are attacking. AND VICE VERSA. This is what I've been saying this whole time, so whats the debate if you agree?
Flygerian

Chickasha, OK

#214 May 5, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
2. the act of procreation is the ONLY thing isolated to a man and a woman. Love is not. Love is between two people.(hopefully both are involved, otherwise its creepy stalking...lol) And the civil rules and rights, re; marriage - are not in any way linked to any Religious beliefs. So the civil institution of marriage is OPEN to civil reinterpretations.
Religious marriage is not legal marriage. You cant even go to a Church and get married without first paying the State for the permission to marry.
Religions can keep their definitions all they wish. Its the civil institution that is being debated...and the civil and social rights of the same. Religious beliefs are actually irrelevant to the discussion because in reality "the State" doesn't give a shyte what a Religion says on the matter...
IMO, marriage has always been - historically - a civil matter. That Religions perform some rituals over it all, but not always - is but window dressing. And a distraction. No one in the West really marries for Religious reasons, they marry for personal ones. And elsewhere it might be dressed in Religion, but its usually economics. A means for a male to move up the social ladder, and for a female to be legitimized in her community and less an economic burden to her blood family.
1. My favorite example, The Doctrine of the Trinity is nothing but interpretation. And IMO its the bad one that won - all due to the interference of the State and politics.
Doctrine of Election, my second favorite. Another bad one that has won. Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura - all interpretations that are very important. Is it the actual Body of Christ, or a representation of him...RCC interpretations versus everyone elses.
The Bible is inert till someone reads it and tries to interpret it. The fact that its been beaten to death in that manner, that there is little to no new interpretations (outside of the Prosperity Gospel stuff I mentioned) coming down the pike at this stage is telling us something - and I think it should be re-interpreted to better reflect the changes Humanity has and is undergoing...and will undergo...as well as better understanding of the "original" languages first used in its earliest manifestations.
1. Of course man and man can love each other. But not in the manner gays do. Well of course they CAN, Im just saying its not natural. The penis was made for the VAGINA not.... well you get the idea lol

2. You said man/woman being the only institution of marriage allowed is a christian invention. DESPITE the FACT that many nations declare man/woman as the only institution of marriage yet they are not christian marriages. This would be contrary to your belief that it is a christian invention no?

3. The trinity isnt up for interpretation. Either its true or its false. And comparing Jesus words with it proves its false. Thats not even mentioning diving into the OT to see if its true or false. AS far as the other 2 I have no idea what they entail lol
Flygerian

Chickasha, OK

#215 May 5, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
We've both gotten off track...time between posts tends to do that...
I agree if I hit someone first, I cant cry if they hit back. Nor can I just hit anyone of that extended group...or can I...?
But lets widen this a bit...open the windows.
If I was hit over and over, over a length of time, not by one individual but a collection of them under an umbrella of Belief - and suddenly I have the freedom to hit back - and all I have is the group (of which the original hitters are now long gone, but the will and desire to hit me still exists)- and I hit back...is it not fair of me to do it?
Can that Group cry that I'm not being fair? And I hit back hard enough to hurt them, am I now a hypocrite?(and lets realize I'm NOT using the word "hit" in the physical sense)
Can I be a hypocrite if during that time of being hit I couldn't even criticize the hitters because my ability was squelched..?
So you agree that Native Americans who are STILL being oppressed by those that do not belong here can fight back right?

Blacks that had there culture stripped SO MUCH that they do not remember their true origins and thus cannot just waltz back to AFrica and live as they should have been, should be able to fight back against those that oppress them today right? Because we are in agreement that these 2 groups are STILL being oppressed to this day right?

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe/God

#216 May 5, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. What post did you bring proof? What post did you explain what proof or lack thereof that you have? You keep referring to the "post where I explained that". Well, where is it? Lets see if you keep to your words
2. I've already said that Star Rebron (who I believe to be YOU) said that. What do you not get about that? I've repeated it at least 3 times now that STAR REBORN is the one that stated that he met "the real god" and went to heaven several times. Maybe you said that to NDanger idk lol. Star Reborn definitely said that to me and I believe you are the person behind the Star Reborn/Seentheotherside accounts. Something you have not denied
3. Let me get this straight (since you keep avoiding it). YOU can call me names yet Im supposed to fix myself before worrying about you? Why can you do those things and not be condescending? No answer huh? LMAO
And your latest attempt at deceit and lies has nothing to do with my post. So here, try again:

You are a freakin idiot, do you comprehend that?

I replied to your moronic demand that I prove God to you. And you've been refusing to read it, instead ranting on for DAYS with the same old lie that I didn't reply. Even though it posted on Topix for all to see.

And to avoid facing YOUR arrogant condescending crappy attitude, you deceitfully try pointing the finger of blame onto me by playing your stupid word games. Stupid avoidance games, that's all it is.

Then you believe the lies of that well known lying "Christian" troll NDanger, and keep repeating his lie about me seeing God at age 4. But you cannot find even one post of mine to back up your lie. Yet you keep repeating the lies for SEVERAL DAYS now.

Now pay attention idiot child.

I replied to your demand of proving God. Go back and read it or shut up already. Only and idiot would refuse to read it and rant on for days demanding an answer that was already given.

Go look up the meaning of condescending, then look at your arrogant condescending crappy attitude, and change it. Never mind about me or anyone else. Fix yourself.

Either get a post of mine to back up your lie about seeing God when 4 years old, or quit repeating the lie.
Flygerian

Chickasha, OK

#217 May 5, 2013
Seentheotherside wrote:
<quoted text>
And your latest attempt at deceit and lies has nothing to do with my post. So here, try again:
You are a freakin idiot, do you comprehend that?
I replied to your moronic demand that I prove God to you. And you've been refusing to read it, instead ranting on for DAYS with the same old lie that I didn't reply. Even though it posted on Topix for all to see.
And to avoid facing YOUR arrogant condescending crappy attitude, you deceitfully try pointing the finger of blame onto me by playing your stupid word games. Stupid avoidance games, that's all it is.
Then you believe the lies of that well known lying "Christian" troll NDanger, and keep repeating his lie about me seeing God at age 4. But you cannot find even one post of mine to back up your lie. Yet you keep repeating the lies for SEVERAL DAYS now.
Now pay attention idiot child.
I replied to your demand of proving God. Go back and read it or shut up already. Only and idiot would refuse to read it and rant on for days demanding an answer that was already given.
Go look up the meaning of condescending, then look at your arrogant condescending crappy attitude, and change it. Never mind about me or anyone else. Fix yourself.
Either get a post of mine to back up your lie about seeing God when 4 years old, or quit repeating the lie.
Im not repeating any lie. I said that the person Star Rebron stated this to me. I BELIEVE YOU ARE THE SAME PERSON BEHIND BOTH ACCOUNTS.(THAT WOULD BE SEENTHEOTHERSIDE = STAR REBORN)

Do you get it now?

You're still not answering lol. HOW CAN YOU CALL SOMEONE CONDESCENDING YET CALL THIS SOMEONE NAMES? WHEN THIS SOMEONE HAS NOT CALLED YOU ANY NAMES?

Do you get it now?

You're still not responding lol. HOW AM I CONDESCENDING? WHAT IS THERE FOR ME TO FIX WHEN EVEN WITH ALL THE NAMECALLING YOU HAVE DONE I HAVE NOT RETURNED YOU WITH THE SAME ACTS? WHATS THERE TO FIX?

Do you get it now?

Probably not and you probably never will. You'll just keep being condescending and name calling while pointing the finger at someone else. I've told YOU how YOU are condescending and self righteous. How about you explain how I am? Oh thats right you'll just repeat your post word for word so you can avoid all that I said lol

NDanger

“Third Eye”

Since: Nov 10

You can't get there from here.

#218 May 6, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Im not repeating any lie. I said that the person Star Rebron stated this to me. I BELIEVE YOU ARE THE SAME PERSON BEHIND BOTH ACCOUNTS.(THAT WOULD BE SEENTHEOTHERSIDE = STAR REBORN)
Do you get it now?
You're still not answering lol. HOW CAN YOU CALL SOMEONE CONDESCENDING YET CALL THIS SOMEONE NAMES? WHEN THIS SOMEONE HAS NOT CALLED YOU ANY NAMES?
Do you get it now?
You're still not responding lol. HOW AM I CONDESCENDING? WHAT IS THERE FOR ME TO FIX WHEN EVEN WITH ALL THE NAMECALLING YOU HAVE DONE I HAVE NOT RETURNED YOU WITH THE SAME ACTS? WHATS THERE TO FIX?
Do you get it now?
Probably not and you probably never will. You'll just keep being condescending and name calling while pointing the finger at someone else. I've told YOU how YOU are condescending and self righteous. How about you explain how I am? Oh thats right you'll just repeat your post word for word so you can avoid all that I said lol
Apparently either her 'multi personalities' split her brain capacity everytime she invents one, that now there just isn't enough to go around, or when GOD was handing out 'brains', she thought HE meant stains and of course, declined...
mztza

Mesa, AZ

#220 May 7, 2013
if everyone would believe,
then there would be no sufferings, misery in this world
again, i've said it before
the end would never come
because it would be PARADISE HERE
but, since no one believes, and refuses
GODS PRINCIPLES
that is the reason, why sin is reigning now, because the majority doesn't believe
can the majority, imagine
truly a world, we now live in did follow GODS way
there would be no more sin
the end would never come
would experiencing paradise to silly
no one suffers, no regrets, true love, kindness, trusting, no betrayal
but man is to afraid, to follow GOD, afraid to others that also don't believe
we need to take the first step, regardless of others,
it takes courage

“When you die, nothing happens.”

Since: Sep 12

Gurabo, PR

#222 May 7, 2013
mztza wrote:
if everyone would believe,
then there would be no sufferings, misery in this world
again, i've said it before
the end would never come
because it would be PARADISE HERE
but, since no one believes, and refuses
GODS PRINCIPLES
that is the reason, why sin is reigning now, because the majority doesn't believe
can the majority, imagine
truly a world, we now live in did follow GODS way
there would be no more sin
the end would never come
would experiencing paradise to silly
no one suffers, no regrets, true love, kindness, trusting, no betrayal
but man is to afraid, to follow GOD, afraid to others that also don't believe
we need to take the first step, regardless of others,
it takes courage
It's impossible for me to refute that, but I don't have to believe unless you can prove it. It isn't impossible for you to prove it though, so get to it. Explain how an entire nation of believers can still commit atrocities towards humanity and at the same time your statement holds true.
mztza

Mesa, AZ

#223 May 7, 2013
Oberktosa wrote:
<quoted text>
It's impossible for me to refute that, but I don't have to believe unless you can prove it. It isn't impossible for you to prove it though, so get to it. Explain how an entire nation of believers can still commit atrocities towards humanity and at the same time your statement holds true.
because not all believe,
if one follows GODS principles, there would never hear or see atrocities
those who, have no belief in GOD,
have malice, hate, cruelty in their heart and fear
those who refuse to believe,
their theory is, kindness, mercy, is
WEAKNESS
why is it, some won't love fully, commit to a relationship,
because they are afraid, of getting betrayed, getting hurt
we have alot of scared people, thats why some pretend to not being hurt, because it's weakness
everybody is afraid to show love, mercy, kindness,, they think thats an open invitation to get
used, abused, conned, hurt, made fun of
thats why there is so much atrocities here,
because of fear
you see, not only we need courage, courage to stand firm, but also wisdom
when to say, NO
i'm not allowing this to continue in my life or where ever i am
courage is the first step
wisdom is the second step
THRU GODS principles, all falls into place
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#224 May 7, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. At least you admitted it. Props
2. I agree 100%. Still doesnt excuse people from ATTACKING christians or christians ATTACKING atheists. If they ATTACK they cannot complain when someone does the same for them. This is what I've said this whole time and your post now FINALLY agrees
I think the issue here is purely vocabulary. I think you're thinking I'm thinking that the term attack is always physical and violent. But I dont always mean it that way...actually most times I dont. I mean "going after" people/groups deemed unfit for tolerance in the general population...and using ones power to vilify and marginalize, and otherwise oppress people/groups.

Which in most cases - when I refer to Xtianity oppressing people/groups - is forcing people with differing beliefs, or none at all into the shadows of a society that they have the same rights as the Xtians. By putting their Religion and faith where it doesnt belong - in the civil systems - and forcing it to be used equally to the actual laws of society.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#225 May 7, 2013
mztza wrote:
if everyone would believe,
then there would be no sufferings, misery in this world
again, i've said it before
the end would never come
because it would be PARADISE HERE
but, since no one believes, and refuses
GODS PRINCIPLES
that is the reason, why sin is reigning now, because the majority doesn't believe
can the majority, imagine
truly a world, we now live in did follow GODS way
there would be no more sin
the end would never come
would experiencing paradise to silly
no one suffers, no regrets, true love, kindness, trusting, no betrayal
but man is to afraid, to follow GOD, afraid to others that also don't believe
we need to take the first step, regardless of others,
it takes courage
Why would you think it better that everyone thought and believed exactly the same? If we all liked the color blue the same, spoke the same, and believed the same...

Boring! Plus, I doubt humanity would have moved out from under the trees, much less into caves and beyond had we all thought and believed exactly the same.

My suggestion to you is to stop wishing on fantasies.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#226 May 7, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
So you agree that Native Americans who are STILL being oppressed by those that do not belong here can fight back right?

Blacks that had there culture stripped SO MUCH that they do not remember their true origins and thus cannot just waltz back to AFrica and live as they should have been, should be able to fight back against those that oppress them today right? Because we are in agreement that these 2 groups are STILL being oppressed to this day right?
Yes, Native Americans have their rights - whatever they exactly are legally I dont really know - but they do have the right to fight back. Which in their case is now probably a moot point.

Yes, to the Blacks too.

But of course they all should act within the confines of the law. But I dont necessarily dismiss the idea that something stronger might be needed...and of course that's a case by case basis. But I'm not outright condoning violence...but I can see circumstances where is could arise and could be useful. Not that I'd be happy about it - but lets face it sometimes thats exactly the ONLY way to talk to power. As this Nation was founded on.(are you aware of the terror tactics our FF's used on the Brits? and of course vice versa)

More to the point of our discussion. Atheists need to shout right now in history. So do many other groups. And IF that means shouting down the Xtians, then thats the way its gonna be right now...till the Xtians stop and not only truly listen, but truly seek to compromise. To truly seek to find the middle-ground and stop laying claim to all the ground all the time. Our legal and social systems are not owned by Xtians or Xtianity. We all own it, and as such We all need to be listened to - but first we all need to have a place at the table, and no one group can decide who sits there...which is what Xtians and Xtianity has been doing for too long.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#227 May 7, 2013
mztza wrote:
if everyone would believe,
then there would be no sufferings, misery in this world
again, i've said it before
the end would never come
because it would be PARADISE HERE
but, since no one believes, and refuses
GODS PRINCIPLES
that is the reason, why sin is reigning now, because the majority doesn't believe
can the majority, imagine
truly a world, we now live in did follow GODS way
there would be no more sin
the end would never come
would experiencing paradise to silly
no one suffers, no regrets, true love, kindness, trusting, no betrayal
but man is to afraid, to follow GOD, afraid to others that also don't believe
we need to take the first step, regardless of others,
it takes courage
The problem with you and those like you is that you're the ones who are scared. Not me! I'm not scared of the dark, or what I cant see, or wont ever know...but Believers live in a world of fear. Oh you all try to mask it with this Faith thing, but the reality is its all based on fear. Fear of offending an unproved Entity - who you all truly think is offended by some of the stupidest of human actions. Fear of being left out, of a place that there is zero proof for...

Sorry dear, but its the Believers who live in fear and run scared. That's why you all commit so much energy to going after those who don't conform to your ideals of what a Believer truly is...
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#228 May 7, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Of course man and man can love each other. But not in the manner gays do. Well of course they CAN, Im just saying its not natural. The penis was made for the VAGINA not.... well you get the idea lol

2. You said man/woman being the only institution of marriage allowed is a christian invention. DESPITE the FACT that many nations declare man/woman as the only institution of marriage yet they are not christian marriages. This would be contrary to your belief that it is a christian invention no?

3. The trinity isnt up for interpretation. Either its true or its false. And comparing Jesus words with it proves its false. Thats not even mentioning diving into the OT to see if its true or false. AS far as the other 2 I have no idea what they entail lol
2. Never said it was ONLY a Xtian invention. Never. You need to re-read my posts. What I said was marriage is not legal if its only a religious one. One needs the State to sanction a marriage, even when seeking a Religious one. You can't show up at a Church without paying the State their fee.

So the reality is marriage IS a civil institution first and most importantly. And as such it can be redefined by the civil system. Religion has zero to do with marriage in a civil system.

And I have no issues with any Church not "giving-in" and not performing same-sex marriages. They have that right, but they dont have the right to dictate what a civil marriage is, or should be.

3. Why not? Why cant doctrines be up for re-interpretation? I see no reason why not.

Do you agree that the Trinity is a false doctrine? Not sure what your POV is here...?

1. Again, procreation is the only thing a same-sex marriage cant fulfill on its own. Everything else a same-sex relationship can and does fulfill for the parties involved.
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#229 May 7, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
I never disagreed with what you said though you avoided the fact that by the logic presented by you, Native Americans and blacks should be able to use the SAME TACTICS THAT WERE AND ARE USED TO OPPRESS THEM on the oppressors, I agree with what you said. Christians cant attack and then not expect a blowback from atheists or whoever they are attacking. AND VICE VERSA. This is what I've been saying this whole time, so whats the debate if you agree?
See my other post, we're having vocabulary issues...over the term "attack".

At the beginning, when the European settlers were first stealing land and resources from the natives, killing and pillaging here or else where, I have no hindsight issues with the natives physically striking back. None at all. In fact, I wish they'd done better in their fights...this might be a much fairer, more grounded and natural resources respectful nation and peoples. If the Native Americans had been able to stake a real claim and hold them - who knows what might have been...maybe when a natural even occurs we'd not be so vulnerable to tide surges, floods, etc...
Punisher

Massapequa, NY

#230 May 7, 2013
Job wrote:
<quoted text>
More than likely you run into believers on at least a weekly basis (if not biweekly-triweekly-daily), and don't even know it. What seems to offend most atheist or agnostic adults has nothing to do with what Christians 'want' them to believe, but that Christians hold an unfavorable 'opinion'(belief) to that atheist or agnostic, whether it's voiced to them or not.
As an example, if an atheist/agnostic knows that I'm an evangelical Christian; they know that in my opinion, like all of us including myself, they 'need' redemption. It really 'shouldn't' be offensive a thought, since I believe we are all in the "same boat" so to speak. They may be offended by the fact that I don't believe that they 'personally' merit God's favor without Christ. But I don't think 'anyone' does, let alone myself.

Most if not all the people who post here are adults, and are experiencing zero to no religious oppression whatsoever.
Yes, and No. I agree, no Believers experience any real oppression in this nation. At least not Xtian ones.

But non-believers...those of other faiths...??? They have and still do experience some form of oppression - even if its not blatant, or easily discernible at first look...

Don't you think its oppression when people have to keep their beliefs, or lack thereof, quiet so not to lose advantages that should in no way be part of the general system of life...? Pursuit of life liberty and happiness and all the details they entail...have been stomped on by Xtian-dom in many avenues of life. Atheists can declare it when running for office. They might never answer the Faith Q, or in some small print mention it...but to come out on a stage and shout it and be proud of it, and insist on no-prayer prayer meetings...
Flygerian

Chickasha, OK

#231 May 7, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
2. Never said it was ONLY a Xtian invention. Never. You need to re-read my posts. What I said was marriage is not legal if its only a religious one. One needs the State to sanction a marriage, even when seeking a Religious one. You can't show up at a Church without paying the State their fee.
So the reality is marriage IS a civil institution first and most importantly. And as such it can be redefined by the civil system. Religion has zero to do with marriage in a civil system.
And I have no issues with any Church not "giving-in" and not performing same-sex marriages. They have that right, but they dont have the right to dictate what a civil marriage is, or should be.
3. Why not? Why cant doctrines be up for re-interpretation? I see no reason why not.
Do you agree that the Trinity is a false doctrine? Not sure what your POV is here...?
1. Again, procreation is the only thing a same-sex marriage cant fulfill on its own. Everything else a same-sex relationship can and does fulfill for the parties involved.
1. Oh please lol. So whats stopping us from allowing a 50 year old to marry a 14 year old again?

2. Madscot suggested that. And was proven wrong when I pointed out the variety of countries that do not allow same sex marriage but are not christian nations.
Flygerian

Chickasha, OK

#232 May 7, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
.
3. Why not? Why cant doctrines be up for re-interpretation? I see no reason why not.
Do you agree that the Trinity is a false doctrine? Not sure what your POV is here...?
Yes I agree that its false. What Im saying is that its not supported by scripture. Definitely not Jesus' words that is. Definitely not the OT either. Definitely not Revelation.

Thats what I mean by its not based on personal interpretation. Its clear when taking scripture as a whole that its false.
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#233 May 8, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Oh please lol. So whats stopping us from allowing a 50 year old to marry a 14 year old again?
2. Madscot suggested that. And was proven wrong when I pointed out the variety of countries that do not allow same sex marriage but are not christian nations.
1. more civilized beliefs about consent, and rape! Not much of which we can find sourced from Religions. All the advances women have made in such avenues has been hard fought by people advancing secular ideas. Might there have been some Believers in the mix? Sure, but when push comes to shove, its the secularists, the humanists, etc who work the hardest for Human Rights.

Religions have no rights, nor any say as to what and how a marriage is defined in the civil system.

And dont keep playing this silly game of, "What IF?" What If people want to marry their couches, or marry someone by proxy...or marry a corpse, maybe marry their plush toy...stop the silliness, because its Xtian silliness.

Why do you rely so much on Xtian defensive arguments if You're not a Xtian? It doesn't make any sense.
Punisher

Yonkers, NY

#234 May 8, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I agree that its false. What Im saying is that its not supported by scripture. Definitely not Jesus' words that is. Definitely not the OT either. Definitely not Revelation.
Thats what I mean by its not based on personal interpretation. Its clear when taking scripture as a whole that its false.
Well look at that...we found agreement...! The cow must have jumped over the moon! Damn and I wasn't watching!

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