US 'prayer cure' couple lose appeal over child's death

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“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe

#1 Jul 3, 2013
Here's the result of that silly Christian prayer myth:

US 'prayer cure' couple lose appeal over child's death

The reckless homicide conviction of a couple whose daughter died after they tried to treat her with prayer, denying her medical help, has been upheld.

By 6-1, Wisconsin's Supreme Court ruled that a law protecting Dale and Leilani Neumann from child abuse charges did not cover their daughter's death.

Kara Neumann, 11, died on Easter Sunday March 2008 from undiagnosed diabetes.

The couple were convicted in separate trials in 2009 and sentenced to six months in prison.

They have not served any jail time while the case went through the appeals process.

The Neumanns' lawyers argued that Wisconsin child abuse laws granted criminal immunity to "prayer-healing" parents, even to the point of creating substantial risk of death.
'Glory of God'

Wisconsin lawyers argued that such protection ends when parents realise a child is at serious risk of death.

The couple identify themselves as Pentecostal Christians and believe visiting a doctor is akin to worshipping an idol, the Supreme Court opinion said.
Madeline Kara Neumann is shown working on chalk art Wausau, Wisconsin July 2007 Kara Neumann's diabetes was undiagnosed

The family first began to pray after Kara became very tired and pale, and her legs turned blue.

They continued to do so as their daughter's conditioned worsened, disregarding suggestions from Leilani Neumann's mother to bring Kara to a doctor.

Leilani Neumann rejected a suggestion that she give Kara a dehydration supplement, saying such a treatment would be taking away the glory from God.

Kara slipped into a coma and died.

Emergency room officials testified the girl's condition was easily treatable and her chances of survival had been high "well into the day of her death".

Dale Neumann testified during his trial that he never thought his daughter would die, and believed that even if she did, Jesus would bring her back from the dead, much like the biblical story of Lazarus.

“And I won't watch this anymore”

Since: Jun 10

the alternate future

#2 Jul 3, 2013
How bad can they be?

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe

#3 Jul 3, 2013
No comments from the Christians defending their mythology?

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#4 Jul 3, 2013
These parents should face the same sort of pain and suffering that their daughter went through before dying......and some will defend these people.....how pathetic is that?

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

Ballwin, MO

#5 Jul 3, 2013
Really sad and it goes on and on.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#6 Jul 3, 2013
John from Texas wrote:
Really sad and it goes on and on.
I guess I hurt somebody's feelings........to bad!!!

“It's all in your head”

Since: Dec 12

Ballwin, MO

#7 Jul 3, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess I hurt somebody's feelings........to bad!!!
Yeah, because their feeling are their own responsibility and no one else's.

I decided a long time ago it was absolutely worthless to get my feelings hurt. I don't have time for that.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#8 Jul 3, 2013
John from Texas wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, because their feeling are their own responsibility and no one else's.
I decided a long time ago it was absolutely worthless to get my feelings hurt. I don't have time for that.
People think I care about those little icons.....I don't and I stand by my comment.....they should suffer like they made her suffer!!!

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe

#9 Jul 3, 2013
Well, is THAT the "best" you Christians can do to defend your prayer mythology, give negative judgeicons?

Your "god" is suppose to answer >>>ALL<<< your prayers, yet the child is dead. So where was your "god"?

The parent's prayers were NOT answered.

Now she will never laugh again.

She will never have any more good times.

She will never fall in love.

She will never see another sunset to stir her soul.

She will not have any tomorrows to look forward to.

The child is now DEAD!!

All because her idiot parents believed in a silly primitive mythology.

They are total idiots, and so is anyone else who believes prayers work. They didn't. They don't.

The child is now DEAD!!!!

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#10 Jul 4, 2013
It would be nice to see their spiritual advisors (pastor, priest, etc) brought before the courts too. I'm sure the parents didn't learn that bs on their own.

The way I see it, the parents are the legal equivalent of drug addicts, while the priest is the drug dealer.

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe

#11 Jul 5, 2013
Flying_Spaghetti_Monster wrote:
It would be nice to see their spiritual advisors (pastor, priest, etc) brought before the courts too. I'm sure the parents didn't learn that bs on their own.
The way I see it, the parents are the legal equivalent of drug addicts, while the priest is the drug dealer.
That's a valid point also.

“Life Force One”

Since: Jul 07

The Spiritual Universe

#12 Jul 5, 2013
Still no "I'll defend my mythology no matter what!", fundies coming to the rescue of these two idiot/fundie parents.

So what's the matter fundies, the harsh reality of the prayer's failure not to your liking?

“Life Force One”

Since: Mar 09

The Spiritual Universe

#13 Jul 6, 2013
Still no fundies able to defend this?

What's the matter, the reality of prayer's FAILURE too much for you?
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#14 Jul 6, 2013
If I pray to a tree will it answer my prayers threadstarter?

“Invisible Pink Unicorn”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#16 Jul 6, 2013
Lord Stannis wrote:
Separate prisons, in the general inmate population. Let them get brutally gang-raped for killing a child.
Cover their cell walls with smiling pictures of the child they killed.
little lamb

Australia

#17 Jul 6, 2013
Seentheotherside wrote:
Well, is THAT the "best" you Christians can do to defend your prayer mythology, give negative judgeicons?
Your "god" is suppose to answer >>>ALL<<< your prayers, yet the child is dead. So where was your "god"?
The parent's prayers were NOT answered.
Now she will never laugh again.
She will never have any more good times.
She will never fall in love.
She will never see another sunset to stir her soul.
She will not have any tomorrows to look forward to.
The child is now DEAD!!
All because her idiot parents believed in a silly primitive mythology.
They are total idiots, and so is anyone else who believes prayers work. They didn't. They don't.
The child is now DEAD!!!!
But then Martha and Mary petitioned Jesus to heal their brother Lazarus...and he deliberately tarried..

So that when he did turn up ' they told him its too late , he has been dead for four days..'

No problem for Jesus ..he just went to the grave of Lazarus and told him to come out.

Death is not the end of matters for a Christian...after all you are going to die yourself one of these days..sooner or later..whats the difference??
little lamb

Australia

#18 Jul 6, 2013
I find the account of Lazarus very interesting...people assume Jesus has to jump, instantly to their very petition..but he does answer and he does it in such a way , that he glorifies his Father.

Jesus says ' I am the resurrection and the life"

he doesn't say " i will be" and he doesn't say ' I was" he says " I AM.' present tense.

“Life Force One”

Since: Mar 09

The Spiritual Universe

#19 Jul 6, 2013
Flygerian wrote:
If I pray to a tree will it answer my prayers threadstarter?
Just as well as the imaginary Christian "god" answered the prayers of these idiotic parents.

It doesn't matter what or who you pray to, it's all luck of the draw results. Whatever will happen, will happen. Prayer will have NO effect upon it.

“Life Force One”

Since: Mar 09

The Spiritual Universe

#20 Jul 6, 2013
little lamb wrote:
<quoted text>
But then Martha and Mary petitioned Jesus to heal their brother Lazarus...and he deliberately tarried..
So that when he did turn up ' they told him its too late , he has been dead for four days..'
No problem for Jesus ..he just went to the grave of Lazarus and told him to come out.
You brainwashed fundies are unbelievably stupid.

It's just a MYTH you idiot. That has not one thing to do with the fact that prayer does NOT work, and a child is DEAD because some morons tried prayer rather than actually DOING something to save their child.
little lamb wrote:
Death is not the end of matters for a Christian...after all you are going to die yourself one of these days..sooner or later..whats the difference??
So if a mugger tries to kill you, you wouldn't care if he did, because it's "not the end"?

Or if you come to a red light, do you go ahead anyway, because death is "not the end"?

Or if you get gravely ill, you are not going to even TRY to get medical help, because death is "not the end"?

Stinking liar.

Your life means everything to you, and you will do anything to prolong it. And this child had the same right to life, and did not want to give it up either. But her life is all gone now! All because of a couple of fundie idiots.
Flygerian

Oklahoma City, OK

#21 Jul 6, 2013
Seen Is Awesome wrote:
<quoted text>
Just as well as the imaginary Christian "god" answered the prayers of these idiotic parents.
Yes. These parents could have their own imagined god made up in their head. BELIEVING they are worshiping whoever but in reality its their own made up version of another being. Doesnt prove anything one way or another. You know that though you're just being biased..... AS USUAL
Seen Is Awesome wrote:
It doesn't matter what or who you pray to
Au contrair my friend lol. Lets say I wanted for whatever reason to pray to your or Star Reborn or whichever other account you go on's god. If I adressed your/star Reborn's god as Phillip Banks would he answer? Not that I would necessarily expect him to answer even if I asked him directly, HE WOULD NOT. I would have to know EXACTLY who I am praying to. Its like me asking you if you know Phil. You would be like "phil who?" On the otherhand people use the term "god" for alot of different things. Such as people,items, creations such as the stars, moon, sun etc... and a variety of other things. So when praying to "god" who are you praying to would be the question I asked the parents.
Seen Is Awesome wrote:
Whatever will happen, will happen. Prayer will have NO effect upon it.
And may I ask how you know this for a fact?

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